HOW WE MET MARIE HELVIN AND MURIEL GRAY

'Muriel has this fantasy of how I live. It amuses her to imagine me with a pet cheetah, lounging about in silk'; 'I'll say: "I bought a half-price shrub last week." Marie will say: "I went to Mick and Jerry's party last week"'

MARIE HELVIN: We first met at one of those meetings where our producers wanted to see if we got on well enough to present this fashion programme together, Frocks on the Box. At the time - it was about six years ago - I only knew Muriel from watching The Tube. She was so aggressive and gave those rock stars such a rotten time. I used to think, "God, how could she dare say that to Mick?''

I went to meet her at L'Escargot with an open mind. At that point, I wasn't keen on doing the programme anyway. I felt that my prestige would go down doing television work. I agreed to go really because I was curious to see Muriel. The producer was there but I can't even remember her presence because Muriel and I got on so well. From the moment I sat down, we started talking about everything.

I felt very comfortable with her - I liked her cynical view of fashion. There were lots of things I agreed and disagreed with. I think she was genuinely interested to hear someone who could maybe change her point of view.

Once we started working together, there was no turning back. The interesting thing is, you can meet so many people, get on well and have a working relationship with them. Yet when the work finishes, that's it - you don't see them again. But with Muriel I really feel very, very close to her. There are times when we don't see each other for several months but the minute she gets to London, she'll make that call to me.

I find her unusual because we are so different. Whereas I'm laid-back, calm and easy-going, she's hyper. In comparison with Muriel, I'm nearly asleep. During our lunchbreaks for Frocks on the Box, she'd always be doing something - writing one of her many articles, or a script, even studying Burns. I'd either be reading a paper or putting on lipstick. You can tell by Muriel's aura that there's so much mental activity going on. I always imagine her heart is beating 10 times faster that anybody else's.

Muriel's a bit of an agony aunt for me. She's always trying to marry me off. Her personal life is very calm and steady, whereas mine is all over the place. I've nothing against marriage, but it's not for me. I think that for her it's fantastic, but I'm not envious. I don't like ties and I don't want to compromise - I did that for too long. But I'm grateful it's happened for her - I can see her with this big brood of kids.

She has this fantasy of how I live. It amuses her to imagine me as "Helvin the glamour girl'', lounging about in silk, maybe with a pet cheetah. But I just don't. She's disappointed when she thinks of me in jeans and a T-shirt. I'm very amused by that.

She's very sensitive about her looks and is sometimes a little bit too self-deprecating. You want to say, "C'mon, you don't really think those things.'' But she's so brutally honest about herself that it makes me sad that she might mean it. I'll always tell her she has the most beautiful figure and tiny waist. I remember when Paul Morley reviewed Frocks On The Box in the Face. He called me ugly and Muriel beautiful. She was absolutely convinced that he'd made a mistake and got the words "blonde'' and "brunette'' the wrong way round. She was even going to write and tell him. That's such a typical reaction.

For all her cynicism, there is this beautiful kind of naivety about her. Appearances are deceiving because people probably assume I'm softer than Muriel. I think I'm much harder, actually. I do feel very maternal towards her. Again, people would probably say: "She's so strong'', but she's not. Muriel's incredibly articulate and knows what she's doing but sometimes she gets lost along the way.

I've got a much tougher side to me. At the end of the day, I've done all the caring and worrying about what people think about me. I really don't care. I don't suffer fools gladly and I feel like I've earned the right to say "f*** off''. But Muriel won't do that.

We do both love to argue and tell each other off - I feel I have the right to do that with her as she does with me. She'll say, "Oh please Helvin, will you shut up and get a life,'' and she's right half the time. It's nice to have someone to say that to you. In the kind of business we're both in, so many people are intimidated by us and won't answer back.

I like the fact that she's so opinionated. That's what I admire about her most. When we do disagree, I'm adamant to the death. She's an expert at debating. I have learnt a great deal from her - particularly about having the strength of your own convictions. I feel that it's made me even more sure of what and who I am.

MURIEL GRAY: I met Marie after I had just done a pilot for the TV programme Frocks On The Box. The producer was looking for another presenter and suggested her. I was very sceptical because I had this ridiculous prejudice about models. I thought that by being obsessed with their looks, they were all shallow and stupid. When I got to know Marie, I realised it was quite the reverse. Models treat their looks in the same way a trainer would treat a racehorse - as an attribute that isn't part of themselves.

We had lunch in Soho's L'Escargot and she was a scream - really funny and charming. I found it all very surprising and had to quickly reassess all my preconceptions. During the series, we swapped advice. I'd give her hints on how to present and she'd tell me how not to look like Fanny Cradock. Sadly, it was very one-sided. She learnt how to be a TV presenter but, to this day, I still can't look like Marie.

I've never had a problem with how I look. I know what I was born with, and it doesn't bother me. What struck me was how amusing it was being so opposite to her. She kept giving me these really nice clothes, dragging me around Browns and telling me to try things on.

Marie loves to shop. I just sulk at the back like a schoolgirl with her mother. Standing in changing rooms with her isn't exactly sickening. Instead, I'm always amazed that I'm changing tights beside one of the most beautiful women in the world.

You imagine that someone so beautiful would resent other women. Marie is completely the opposite. She flirts with them and it's so attractive. She isn't the least bit threatening and has lots of female friends, which is always a good sign.

In terms of lifestyle, we've got absolutely nothing in common. Marie is as genuinely glamorous as she appears. If you went round to her house and caught her unawares, she'd be lying on the sofa with a very exclusive- looking cat on her lap, sipping champagne. If you rang my doorbell, I'd be wearing socks and dressing gown, drinking a cup of coffee.

I always find it amusing catching up on each other's news. I'll say "I went to a garden centre last week and bought this brilliant half-price shrub'' or "There's a bit of dry rot in the bedroom.'' And she'll say, "Well, I went to Mick and Jerry's party last week.''

If we've got anything in common, it's the way we argue and tick each other off. She thinks that in some ways I'm ridiculous and will row with me about the way I dress and some of my attitudes. She thinks I set myself up to be attacked - which I probably do - and that I'm being deliberately antagonistic - which I'm not. I accuse her of being too fussy about men. I always tell her that they all want to marry her: so why can't she say yes to one of them?

Sometimes I think Marie is friends with me out of some sort of misplaced protectiveness because she feels sorry for me. She's very sisterly towards me. I'm sure she thinks I could make a better job of the whole damn thing - my looks, career, life and everything - if I just made a bit more effort.

She always keeps a close eye on my work. I think that's another thing people may be surprised about: Marie's very in touch with things that are going on. That's why she's been so successful in her own career. As a model you can probably take various paths that could lead to disaster. But she remains like this elder stateswoman above the other supermodels, without ever selling out or turning tacky.

I admire her career. I didn't realise that it's a profession you can be crap at. I always thought if you're born beautiful you can be a model - but that's not the case at all. It's all to do with stamina, direction, autonomy and control. I've met other models and I think she's head and shoulders above them in intelligence and judgement. I wouldn't be pals with her otherwise. I haven't got time for stupid people .

Marie's incredibly independent - much more so than I am. If you took a straw poll on who's the strongest out of the two of us, people would choose me. They're completely wrong. Marie lives her life exactly how she plans and nobody interferes with that. She's astonishingly strong - there must be pressure from all sides to try to guide her. I keep telling her to get married and have children but she ignores me.

I see her as a feminist, although I don't think that would go down well with the Guardian women's page. She's more liberated than some of these greasy-haired, Islington harridans. Marie is completely at ease with her own sexuality and has a sense of self-worth which they lack. She has the best of both worlds. That's what real feminism should be - and why not? !