Plenty of laurels, no rest : ROCK

The MC5's guitarist is back with a fine new album. He talks to Nicholas Barber

IT'S best to agree with Henry Rollins. Get him in a bad mood and the Incredible Hulk of hardcore rock is likely to rip your arms off and eat them. But sometimes, concurring with Rollins is a pleasure as well as an act of self-preservation. To wit, his sleeve notes to The Hard Stuff, the new album by Wayne Kramer, formerly of the legendary proto-punk band, the MC5: "This is the real article. People don't play guitars like this anymore, he's trying to wreck the place. One of the purveyors of the real thing still delivers."

Henry, you're right. The Hard Stuff is an uncompromising blast of musical expertise and experimentation paired with clear-sighted lyrics that dissect the state of America. It is Lou Reed's New York album on steroids. "There are plenty of people that write beautiful, sensitive love songs," says Kramer, on the phone from Los Angeles. "I'm not one of them. At the risk of sounding sanctimonious, I kind of look at my record-making as dispatches from the front line."

On "The Edge of the Switchblade", he mythologises his own past: "London called, come on over/Bring your message across the sea/ We took our slams, kicked out the jams/Set some young minds free." Does he feel like a legend? "No," he says, "sometimes I try to convince my wife I'm a legend, but she doesn't buy it either. It's just that I was part of one of the greatest rock bands of all time."

Why be falsely modest when the MC5 have been cited as an influence by every underground band since they formed in 1964? Revolutionary in both their performance and their politics, they created an explosive, abrasive, loud sound which roars out of the seminal live set Kick Out the Jams, on which the band can be heard exhorting the crowd to riot: "I wanna hear some revolution out there . . . the time has come for you to decide whether you are gonna be the problem or the solution." Their history, says Kramer, is "one of the last great untold stories of the Sixties". Hearing his first-hand account, you get the feeling that when Oliver Stone wanted to make a film about a controversial Sixties rock group, he should have pointed his camera not at Los Angeles, but at the Motor City, home of the Motor City Five.

"The MC5 was very much a product of its time. We had a gut feeling that something was wrong with our country. All our friends were going off to this war that we couldn't justify, and coming back in body-bags or insane. We were determined to make a change and we rocked as hard as a band could rock.

"We never really fitted in anywhere. We went to California and they were all hippies. We came out playing Little Richard tunes with Marshall amps on full blast, and moving like James Brown, so we didn't fit in with them. Believe me, we weren't trying to fit in, we were trying to blow it all away."

This is how Kramer speaks. "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows," he'll say, or "We talked the talk and we walked the walk." Yet even as he produces these slogans, he sounds intelligent and mild. This is no posturing pop star, just an honest one. Today, even the most rebellious band has its videos on nice, safe MTV. Thirty years ago, it was possible to avoid the mainstream.

"There was an incredible police pressure to stop the MC5. They couldn't have a band like us telling people to stop the war and telling girls to burn their bras. When we said we were corrupting the youth of America with this thing called rock'n'roll, the establishment took us seriously. We were searched, our telephones were tapped. They used everything they could except death squads, and they used those on the Black Panthers, who we allied ourselves with. Ultimately they imprisoned our manager, John Sinclair. They gave him nine-and-a- half to 10 years for possession of two joints. John was the one person we trusted to deal with the business end of it, and without him we were rudderless. He served two years and then won it on appeal that the sentence was cruel and unusual punishment. But they had done their damage. They had broken the back of the MC5."

Kramer was a "typically snot-nosed rebellious kid" who grew up in a working- class suburb of Detroit. His parents worked in the auto industry. Everyone's parents worked in the auto industry. "You had three choices. You could go to jail right away, you could go to the army, or you could go to the factory. I saw being a musician as a way out of that trap." He joined the MC5 as a teenager. When they broke up in 1972, he was stripped of his identity. "I was only 24. My life was poured into that band and the day it ended we all walked away from each other. That was the worst thing that could have happened, far worse than not selling records or anything like that. I mean, I lost my brothers and we'd been through the fire together. It was a pain that I killed with drugs and alcohol, and I ended up having to go to jail and all that shit."

Kramer's "illegitimate capitalism" is commemorated in "Jail Guitar Doors", a track by MC5 fans The Clash: "Let me tell you about Wayne and his deals of cocaine/A little more every day/Hold for a friend till the band do well/ The DFA locked him away."

Since then, Kramer has produced records for several bands, and played guitar in several more, including Was (Not Was), and Gang War with Johnny Thunders. Two of the MC5, Rob Tyner and Fred "Sonic" Smith, died recently of heart failure. The three surv-iving members - and John Sinclair - are closer than they have been since the group broke up. Kramer has "made peace with the MC5".

"It was a long process for me to grieve over the loss of my band and accept that that part of my life had ended. If there was anything to be learnt from it, it was that this whole rock'n'roll myth of Live Fast, Die Young is a terrific lie. Your time is the most valuable thing you have. The key is to live strong and to live long and to stay creative. The history of the MC5 is not gonna get me through. What's gonna get me through is the work I'm doing today. It's a great legend, and I would never deny the MC5, but it was a long time ago."

Did the revolution ever happen? "The part of the revolution we were promoting about destroying the government - that didn't work out. They had more guns than we had. But the other part, the revolution of the mind, that worked out brilliantly. A lot of my generation are living out the lyrics of Dylan and Stones songs. What we tried to represent in the MC5, and what I still try to represent in my work, is that there are possibilities. If I can create this kind of music, then imagine what you can do. You can change the world."

Kramer, still only 46, is now signed to Epitaph, America's fashionable punk label. He is joined on The Hard Stuff by musicians from the new generation: The Melvins, Bad Religion, Suicidal Tendencies. "It's been an absolute blast," he says. "It's like we all learnt by listening to the MC5 - I just had a more direct route."

He "couldn't be happier", but has no plans to relax. "I still have to pay my rent. The legend doesn't pay all that well. I'd like to do an album a year for the next 10 years. Then I'll see how I feel about taking a break. But for now I'm fit, I'm sober, I'm drug-free. It's time to take the message to the people."

! `The Hard Stuff' (Epitaph) is available now. Wayne Kramer appears at the Garage, London N1 (071-344 0044), on 2 March.

Arts and Entertainment
Performers drink tea at the Glastonbury festival in 2010

GlastonburyWI to make debut appearance at Somerset festival

Arts and Entertainment
Lena Headey as Cersei Lannister

TV reviewIt has taken seven episodes for Game of Thrones season five to hit its stride

Have you tried new the Independent Digital Edition apps?
Arts and Entertainment

ebooksNow available in paperback
Arts and Entertainment

Arts and Entertainment
Jesuthasan Antonythasan as Dheepan

FilmPalme d'Or goes to radical and astonishing film that turns conventional thinking about immigrants on its head

Arts and Entertainment
Måns Zelmerlöw performing

Arts and Entertainment
Graham Norton was back in the commentating seat for Eurovision 2015

Arts and Entertainment
Richard Hammond, Jeremy Clarkson and James May on stage

Arts and Entertainment
The light stuff: Britt Robertson and George Clooney in ‘Tomorrowland: a World Beyond’
film review
Arts and Entertainment
Reawakening: can Jon Hamm’s Don Draper find enlightenment in the final ‘Mad Men’?
tv reviewNot quite, but it's an enlightening finale for Don Draper spoiler alert
Arts and Entertainment
Breakfast Show’s Nick Grimshaw

Arts and Entertainment

Arts and Entertainment
'Youth' cast members Paul Dano, Jane Fonda, Harvey Keitel, Rachel Weisz, and Michael Caine pose for photographers at Cannes Film Festival
Arts and Entertainment
Adam West as Batman and Burt Ward and Robin in the 1960s Batman TV show

Arts and Entertainment
I am flute: Azeem Ward and his now-famous instrument
Arts and Entertainment
A glass act: Dr Chris van Tulleken (left) and twin Xand get set for their drinking challenge
TV review
Arts and Entertainment
MIA perform at Lovebox 2014 in London Fields, Hackney

Arts and Entertainment
Finnish punk band PKN hope to enter Eurovision 2015 and raise awareness for Down's Syndrome

Arts and Entertainment
William Shakespeare on the cover of John Gerard's The Herball or Generall Historie of Plantes

Arts and Entertainment

Game of Thrones review
Arts and Entertainment
Grayson Perry dedicates his Essex home to Julie

Potter's attempt to create an Essex Taj Mahal was a lovely treat

Arts and Entertainment
A scene from the original Swedish version of the sci-fi TV drama ‘Real Humans’
Arts and Entertainment
Hugh Keays-Byrne plays Immortan Joe, the terrifying gang leader, in the new film
filmActor who played Toecutter returns - but as a different villain in reboot
Arts and Entertainment
Charlize Theron as Imperator Furiosa in Mad Max: Fury Road
Latest stories from i100
Have you tried new the Independent Digital Edition apps?

ES Rentals

    Independent Dating

    By clicking 'Search' you
    are agreeing to our
    Terms of Use.

    Why the cost of parenting has become so expensive

    Why the cost of parenting has become so expensive

    Today's pre-school child costs £35,000, according to Aviva. And that's but the tip of an iceberg, says DJ Taylor
    Fifa corruption: The 161-page dossier that exposes the organisation's dark heart

    The 161-page dossier that exposes Fifa's dark heart

    How did a group of corrupt officials turn football’s governing body into what was, in essence, a criminal enterprise? Chris Green and David Connett reveal all
    Mediterranean migrant crisis: 'If Europe thinks bombing boats will stop smuggling, it will not. We will defend ourselves,' says Tripoli PM

    Exclusive interview with Tripoli PM Khalifa al-Ghweil

    'If Europe thinks bombing boats will stop smuggling, it will not. We will defend ourselves'
    Raymond Chandler's Los Angeles: How the author foretold the Californian water crisis

    Raymond Chandler's Los Angeles

    How the author foretold the Californian water crisis
    Chinese artist who posted funny image of President Xi Jinping facing five years in prison as authorities crackdown on dissent in the arts

    Art attack

    Chinese artist who posted funny image of President Xi Jinping facing five years in prison
    Marc Jacobs is putting Cher in the limelight as the face of his latest campaign

    Cher is the new face of Marc Jacobs

    Alexander Fury explains why designers are turning to august stars to front their lines
    Parents of six-year-old who beat leukaemia plan to climb Ben Nevis for cancer charity

    'I'm climbing Ben Nevis for my daughter'

    Karen Attwood's young daughter Yasmin beat cancer. Now her family is about to take on a new challenge - scaling Ben Nevis to help other children
    10 best wedding gift ideas

    It's that time of year again... 10 best wedding gift ideas

    Forget that fancy toaster, we've gone off-list to find memorable gifts that will last a lifetime
    Paul Scholes column: With the Premier League over for another year, here are my end of season awards

    Paul Scholes column

    With the Premier League over for another year, here are my end of season awards
    Heysel disaster 30th anniversary: Liverpool have seen too much tragedy to forget fateful day in Belgium

    Liverpool have seen too much tragedy to forget Heysel

    Thirty years ago, 39 fans waiting to watch a European Cup final died as a result of a fatal cocktail of circumstances. Ian Herbert looks at how a club dealt with this tragedy
    Amir Khan vs Chris Algieri: Khan’s audition for Floyd Mayweather may turn into a no-win situation, says Frank Warren

    Khan’s audition for Mayweather may turn into a no-win situation

    The Bolton fighter could be damned if he dazzles and damned if he doesn’t against Algieri, the man last seen being decked six times by Pacquiao, says Frank Warren
    Blundering Tony Blair quits as Middle East peace envoy – only Israel will miss him

    Blundering Blair quits as Middle East peace envoy – only Israel will miss him

    For Arabs – and for Britons who lost their loved ones in his shambolic war in Iraq – his appointment was an insult, says Robert Fisk
    Fifa corruption arrests: All hail the Feds for riding to football's rescue

    Fifa corruption arrests

    All hail the Feds for riding to football's rescue, says Ian Herbert
    Isis in Syria: The Kurdish enclave still resisting the tyranny of President Assad and militant fighters

    The Kurdish enclave still resisting the tyranny of Assad and Isis

    In Syrian Kurdish cantons along the Turkish border, the progressive aims of the 2011 uprising are being enacted despite the war. Patrick Cockburn returns to Amuda
    How I survived Cambodia's Killing Fields: Acclaimed surgeon SreyRam Kuy celebrates her mother's determination to escape the US

    How I survived Cambodia's Killing Fields

    Acclaimed surgeon SreyRam Kuy celebrates her mother's determination to escape to the US