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The Great Green Con: Labour's climate measures mainly hot air

After last week's eco-car initiative, Wednesday's Budget will have a green spin. But the Government's low-carbon strategy could be making matters worse, says environment editor Geoffrey Lean

Britain's economic stimulus measures, promoted by Gordon Brown as part of a "global green new deal", will accelerate global warming instead of curbing it, an investigation by The Independent on Sunday has established.

The investigation also shows that most of the Prime Minister's vaunted green initiatives have not materialised and, in some cases, are likely to set back his professed strategy for "the creation of a low-carbon economy". It has found that, over the past four years, ministers have launched a staggering 91 consultations relating to the issue, while actually doing little.

The revelations come as the Chancellor, Alistair Darling, prepares to unveil what ministers insist will be a groundbreaking green Budget. Yesterday, the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, Ed Miliband, told the IoS that it would represent "a massive greening of the Government".

Last year's Budget, however, was similarly trailed in advance as "the greenest ever", but actually led to a slight fall in the revenue coming from green taxes. And though Gordon Brown promised in 1997 to put "the environment at the core of the Government's objectives for the tax system", income from such taxes fell by 22 per cent during his 10 years as Chancellor.

As the IoS exclusively reported last month, green measures form only 6 per cent of the Government's stimulus package, compared to 13 per cent in Germany, 21 per cent in France, 38 per cent in China and 81 per cent in South Korea. And now a new study shows that the British package will increase rather than reduce emissions of carbon dioxide.

Carried out for WWF and E3G – a respected environmental group – it found that the harmful effects of new spending on roads, which will increase traffic, far outweighed the contribution of extra expenditure on energy saving and rail infrastructure. And it points out that Britain has "yet to include any investments at all dedicated to renewable energy".

Examination of Mr Brown's hyped green initiatives since becoming Prime minister reveals a similarly sorry picture, as the panel (right) shows.

He has repeatedly promised that Britain will increase the proportion of its energy coming from renewable sources to 15 per cent by 2020. But a new study to be published on Tuesday by Cambridge Econometrics is expected to show that, if current policies continue, it will grow from 1 per cent to only 1.5 per cent by then.

The Government has consistently failed to provide incentives that are routine in other countries. Four years ago, it promised to provide £50m to help develop wave and tidal power, an area where Britain has a potential world lead. But the resulting Marine Renewables Deployment Fund has yet to give a penny to support this. Installation of rooftop windmills has been held up through bureaucratic delays over planning issues at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. Gordon Brown wrote to one manufacturer last August saying the issue had been resolved, but the hold-up continues.

Homeowners have also been discouraged from installing other renewable energy systems, such as solar electric panels. Just as they were beginning to take off, ministers slashed the level of grants available. They will end such funding for commercial buildings and charities altogether in June.

The Government has promised to introduce "feed-in tariffs", which would pay people for excess energy they produce. But these are not due to come in for a year for electricity and for two years for heat – causing a funding gap that threatens to drive some installers out of business.

There is a similar failure to honour an undertaking by Mr Brown last September properly to insulate six million houses over the next three years. In practice, this would involve providing cavity wall insulation to a million homes. The official Cavity Insulation Guarantee Agency told the IoS last week that filling cavity walls was running at just 500,000 homes a year.

Mr Brown promised to augment a scheme called the Carbon Emissions Reduction Target, under which the big energy companies have to help households save fuel and electricity. But the Government is now threatening to gut the scheme by allowing the companies to get away with simply offering people advice.

He also undertook to tackle fuel poverty. But ministers accept they will fail to meet a legal obligation to end it among vulnerable groups next year, and have cut funds, even as the number of households affected has risen from 4.3 to 5.4 million last year.

Last week's heavily publicised promotion of electric cars follows the same pattern, since the cars for which grants will be available will not be on the market for at least two years.

Meanwhile a study by a consulting firm, JDS Associates, has counted 91 separate consultations concerning sustainable energy launched by the governments in Westminster, Edinburgh and Cardiff between May 2005 and January 2009.

Last night Greg Barker, the Conservatives' energy spokesman, said the investigation showed ministers and civil servants were locked in "mid-20th-century attitudes to producing energy". Simon Hughes, the Liberal Democrat environment spokesman, said the Prime Minister was content to "paint a green picture" without taking practical action.

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Cowards
[info]imogenlucy wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 12:12 am (UTC)

No surprise there then: it's typical of bullies, which is what this government are, to be pathetically cowardly when it comes to facing up to a genuinely scary situation and the need to tell people something they don't want to hear. Good strong leadership could lead us out of the climate mess, because plenty of solutions exist and all that is needed is to work together; but where is that leadership?
A little Test
[info]mike4626 wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 05:19 am (UTC)
Question
how do you know when Mr Brown is lying?

Answer
when his mouth is open
Green politics
[info]fosternz wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 05:43 am (UTC)
Geoffrey Lean needs to understand politics. If he stood for parliament on the basis of his article, he would be correctly interpreted as saying "Vote for me, and I will lower your standard of living."
Monbiot summed it up in his book HEAT. "Politicians know we want them to set tough targets, and they know we want them to miss them."
All Review - No Action
[info]mike4626 wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 05:46 am (UTC)
can anyone name a promise which Mr Brown has actually seen through to fruition?
Con Society
[info]over325one wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 06:12 am (UTC)
"he's the son of a preacher man" Has Brown ever answered a question? Deviousness and deceit are the mainstays of NuLab - Blair lied and ran a war and now he's making millions and thinks we will stand for him getting a job as leader of the European Union, fomerly known as the European Community, and the Common Market. We've all been conned. That's why most europeans feel cheated. We have to build a society based on zero-tollerance. We have now got a society run by blood-suckers. Blair is a shining example of greed, hypocracy and greed who takes us all for mugs. The French would have got the guillotine out of the cupboard years ago.
By 2050
[info]forlonehope wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 06:45 am (UTC)
A good argument can be made that to achieve the needed 80% reduction by 2050 what is needed now is mainly research and development; Bjorn Lomborg makes it very effectively (http://www.lomborg.com/faq/) . Virtually all the relevant infrastructure has a life of less than 30 years so that whatever is built now will have to be replaced by then. Main power stations last 30 to 40 years at a stretch, cars less than 20, domestic heating systems, ten to twenty and so on. Only buildings which typically last about a century exceed this timescale. The essential policy is to know what has to be built from 2020 onwards and to make sure that the technology is there. For the present, getting buildings insulated properly and making sure that any new buildings use the best available insulation is the only serious "action this day" policy. Anything else is spin.
Re: By 2050
[info]blathra wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 03:35 pm (UTC)
The perceived purpose of green policies today seems not to be based on effective outcomes. The aim for example of green taxes should not be to increase revenue, but to reduce emissions or waste. Too many people today (and this is the politicians fault) see green staxes as stealth taxes which have little to do with protecting the environment. R & D is one option, in doing so we may be able to create a wider public concensus on the need for action which is achievable!

We need this wider public agreement, because in the end, to achieve the levels of cuts needed to get our emissions down by 2050, it is going to need a major change in all our lifstyles, way beyond anything imagined of so far.
Power cuts by 2013
[info]berserkerboy wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 07:11 am (UTC)
We have a growing demand for power. Population growth and immigration add to our numbers every day. Our power generating capacity, on the other hand, is not. With power stations shortly to be decommissioned the above is ineviteable, it is now too late!
Power stations take years to build. Renewable projects, particularly those understaken by homeowners, come on line almost immediately. Incentivise this and it would go a considerable way to solving the impending power cuts and our carbon emission obligations.
So why aren't we doing it?.. Oh yeah, it means less tax revenue, freeing people from energy dependence and is altogether and too easy!
I'm shocked, I tell you... shocked!
[info]junkkmale wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 08:02 am (UTC)
McCavity (insulation) and his fellow GOATs not only blow a squillion over the past decade mainly on just looking like they are doing stuff, but actually make things worse in the process.

There's a thing.

Speaking of goats, maybe a new sacrificial quango requires setting up to take the blame? They are pretty good at that, so it might not be a total foul up.
The truth ain't what it used to be
[info]dinosaur_senior wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 08:53 am (UTC)
This is all part of Mandy's Grand Theory of the Truth: If we say it is so, then it is so. When the history of New Labour is written it will turn out they have done precisely nothing during their years in power, save for allowing big business to go its own sweet way.
The Great Green Con
[info]originaleskimo wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 08:59 am (UTC)
Surely the 'Con' is being commited by Enviromentalist's. That Brown and his fellow spivs shout loud about their 'green credentials' yet do next to nothing shows that even they don't believe the Global Warming scam and just see it as an opportunity to fleece a very gullible public for more and more guilt tax.
Re: The Great Green Con - not
[info]frwilliams wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 10:15 am (UTC)
Climate change a scam? How do you get almost all the world's climatologists to conspire together to construct this scam? Either man-made climate change is real or it is not - either the majority of climate scientists are right or they are wrong. Government actions do not influence this fact, they - hopefully - react to it.
Re: The Great Green Con - not
[info]originaleskimo wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 10:49 am (UTC)
"almost all the world's climatologists"? What about all those climatologists who disagree about man's contribution to climate change yet fail to get their word heard?

Didn't over 31,000 scientists recently sign a petition rebutting the theory of man made global warming?

Personally, I haven't the time or inclination to plough through thousands of hours of scientific research, possible written by someone waiting for his next tax payer funded cheque to drop through his letterbox so he can trot off and conduct yet more 'essential research'. How much 'reading from the biosphere' have you done?

I don't doubt that climate changes; why shouldn't it? What I do doubt is that there is any actual knowledge of how much the climate has changed over a defined period, let alone whether human activity can be held responsible. Every time I hear or read of another alarmist claim such as the one's published in yesterday's Telegraph from Lord Stern (what scientific qualifications in this field does he actually hold?) predicting that climate change is "....causing a rise in sea levels, greater frequency of storms and a "high chance that the rainforests will collapse" and likening sceptics to holocaust or AIDs 'deniers', it reinforces my view that the lunatics really are running the asylum.
The only fear that climate change (nee Global Warming) causes me is the huge amounts of tax payers money that will be wasted in this country alone chasing vanity projects such as electric cars and an 80% reduction in CO2 output that can never succeed and will never see the light of day.
Re: The Great Green Con - not
[info]frwilliams wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 02:38 pm (UTC)
I understand the petition which 31,000 "scientists" - self-declared - signed was started 10 years ago in America. Many people have subsequently changed their minds (and some have died! I also understand that the petition asked people to sign if they disagreed that man was causing catastrophic climate change. There was no facility for qualification - e.g. that you thought that man was causing climate change but didn't think it would be catastrophic. But the weakest point of all about it was that it was a petition, not a survey. How many people who received/read it did not sign? Over the same period you could probably have got as many people to say that they believed in ghosts or extra-terrestrial visitors.

As a professional research scientist in ecology I have done a lot of reading (and writing) about the biosphere. However, since I am not a climate specialist I do not pretend to have any greater expertise in that subject than any other scientist. I do, however, know a lot about how research funding works and about the ethos of scientists working for the public good. If you want to ensure objectivity in scientific research the best approach is for it to be funded from the public purse, rather than from commercial sources.

One problem I will concede is that the popoular press tend to over-dramatise and simplify the issue. There is obviously some uncertainty involved - there is very little absolute certainty in life, but that doesn't stop important decisions being made. But the impression that scientists are saying that everything is cut and dried and neatly sewn up of course tends to encourage suspicion. This is why it is important to read up the science if possible. The same probably applies to teaching in schools, but here, particularly at junior levels, you are dealing with pupils who will not be able to appreciate the nuances of probability etc - even most adults (including teachers)have little concept of how probability testing is applied in science.
Blame charatans like Al Gore for public indifference
[info]originaleskimo wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 05:29 pm (UTC)
I concede that I do not know the background to the 31,000 name petition and you obviously have a much better knowledge of scientific funding. I still however have concerns regarding scientists who appear to have all their eggs in the Global Warming basket. They are hardly likely to concede that climate change isn't man made are they? Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. There also appear to be a lot of non-scientists prepared to go public with hysterical stories of sea levels rising to flood London etc. If you want to know why the public are indifferent, or as myself openly opposed to the 'man made' argument, then I suggest that you lay the blame at the door of Al Gore, Lord Stern and others of their ilk.
I also fail to understand how the connection is made between climate change and human activity. Undoubtably climate changes, it always has, yet to blame modern living is simplistic in the extreme. I can not believe that human activity can complete with the power of the sun which ultimately is surely the prime influence on our climate.
It is also worth pointing out that human beings are extremely resourceful creatures which is how they exist in the hottest and coldest clmiates on earth. It is well within our capabilites to adapt to varying climate and money would in my opinion be far better spent managing future changes in climate and adapting to live with them rather than trying to hold back the seas and setting lucicrous targets such as a reduction of 80% in CO2 output which is nowhere near achievable and yet will ruin modern industry in a vain attempt to meet it.
Re: Blame charatans like Al Gore for public indifference
[info]frwilliams wrote:
Wednesday, 22 April 2009 at 09:16 am (UTC)
Originaleskimo - Al Gore is a politician and a polemicist. He appears to believe in the cause he is pushing. Like the majority of climatologists whose views he echoes (plus or minus a bit of rhetoric!, he may be right and he may be wrong, but I doubt if he is a charlatan.

You say "I also fail to understand how the connection is made between climate change and human activity". This is not surprising as, on your own admission, you can't be bothered to read the scientific background to the issue. Climate science has a long history dating back to the early 19th century and for almost all this time the greenhouse effect has been a recognised phenomenon. I really recommend you do some background reading.

Instead you seem to rely on a very strange idea of what scientists are all about. The image you portrayed before of a climate scientists idly waiting for his grant cheque to drop through the letterbox has no relationship with reality - you must be thinking of undergraduate or postgraduate students. Scientists working on important subjects like climatology are typically employees of prestigious universities or academic research institutes that depend upon a reputation for integrity and academic excellence. Their work is extensively reviewed by others with appropriate expertise and there is great emphasis on scientific rigour and objectivity in the whole process. People engage in scientific research because they are exercised by the challenge of finding out the truth about how things work and increasing the fund of knowledge for the benefit of mankind, not just as a means of earning an easy meal ticket (which it is not!).

If you are still skeptical about the scientific community I suggest that you show our correspondence to any experienced academic research scientist you happen to know and allow him to comment. If you don't know any, try to find some other means of leaning about the ethos behind scientific research.

Except that you probably won't be bothered, just as you can't be bothered to find out anything about climate science before dismissing the whole thing as rubbish. This is not an argument that either you or I will win because arguments about science have to be based upon facts and data. And you can't be bothered to find out any. You prefer to rely on ridiculously inaccurate stereotypes and uninformed chitter-chatter on the net that allow you to dismiss an important issue that can only be addressed if we are all prepared to take responsibility and make some effort.

I don't intend to contribute further to this thread, but wish you well.
Re: Blame charatans like Al Gore for public indifference
[info]originaleskimo wrote:
Wednesday, 22 April 2009 at 10:08 am (UTC)
Your last post does not address any of the points I raised concerning future investment to adapt to changing climate rather than fighting a losing battle, nor to the charlatans that are Al Gore and Lord Stern, amongst many others. This doesn't surprise me though as I doubt you actually have anything positive to say about them, Gore in particular.
I simply don't have the time to plough through thousands of pages of research, however accurate or skewed it may be. As I have already said, climate changes. Human contribution to current variations is a theory still under debate both within and outside the scientific community and may never be settled. I still maintain that adapting to future climate variations makes far more sense to me than attempting to fight the impossible fight.
I'm not sure whether you are in the US, the UK or elsewhere but I can assure you that it would help the climate change lobby enormously if a sensible debate could be presented to the largly non-scientific community rather than ludicrous schemes such as launching mirrors in to space. It would also help if the likes of Al Gore would stop screaming about Global Warming whilst leaving his lights on 24/7 in his huge mansion and making a fortune from carbon trading.
Re: The Great Green Con
[info]frwilliams wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 10:20 am (UTC)
People should read, and hopefully understand, the science behind the climate change issue, not base their opinions upon what they read on skeptical websites. The relevant data come from the biosphere, not the blogosphere.
Personal responsibility
[info]humble_sparrow wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 09:04 am (UTC)
There seems to be this belief that government should supply all the answers regarding the environment.

Government obviously has a role but until the people as a whole start to change their view of the world, government will flounder because they fear not being re-elected by implementing unpopular policies. That is the nature of democracy.

If we as a people start to really believe we are damaging the environment (which we really don't, do we?) then government will follow and start to implement substantial meaningful change.

Stop blaming government, stop using them as a scapegoat to carry on the old ways, cut your carbon emissions and lead a greener life through personal responsibility.

Personal responsibility does not require an act of parliament.
Re: Personal responsibility
[info]earth_advocate wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 08:32 am (UTC)
"Personal responsibility does not require an act of parliament."

You are expecting 6 milllion British individuals to make their own minds up and, furthermore, to actually agree on something!?? I severely doubt that will ever happen.

New Labour are finished. If Brown and his buddies wish to create any kind of legacy for themselves, then they must go out in a blaze of glory. After all, the current government is nothing if not unpopular....
Re: Personal responsibility
[info]humble_sparrow wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 08:59 am (UTC)
-You are expecting 6(6) milllion British individuals to make their own minds up and, furthermore, to actually agree on something!?? I severely doubt that will ever happen.-

I am sure you have a very good point but in the end the people have to make a personal decision to protect our environment. The welfare of our planet goes way above intercine politics and the blame game.

The wisdom of the crowd needs to change and be heart felt, not imposed, if any real change is to occur.

There is now no excuse, the evidence of planetary damage is compelling, most people know what is happening but are unwilling to change.

Government can only do so much if the will of the people is ambivalent. :-)
Re: Personal responsibility
[info]earth_advocate wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 11:12 am (UTC)
"The welfare of our planet goes way above intercine politics and the blame game."

You are right on this point, of course.

I cannot help but think our efforts are wasted when all we do is sit and point the finger at each other. You drive when you could walk. You take the plane when you could go by train. You leave the television on standby when you could switch it off at the wall.... The list goes on and on. We are all sinners.

Instead of fighting a war on 6 million fronts, we must focus our efforts on one enemy. Urge the government to force us into action.
Re: Personal responsibility
[info]frwilliams wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 09:25 am (UTC)
Why is it that so many people don't believe in man-made climate change? If they did there would be more pressure on the government - any government - to deliver effective green measures. I think there is something of a class divide on the issue - related to education level, though not a clear-cut one. Some of the comments one reads from skeptics in local papers suggest a lack of knowledge of basic science, let alone a knowledge of climate science. This is not helped by most tabloid papers and much of the local press that tend to skew there content in favour of the skeptics. Is there perhaps an added element - that nowadays it is more difficult to get the ordinary "man in the street" to accept social responsibility? Or am I just being an old snob?
education?
[info]originaleskimo wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 11:00 am (UTC)
you are being an arrogant old snob. Judging by the tone of your comment, anyone that doesn't swallow the global warming nonsense is an uneducated idiot.
Based on my sons education, our school children are being force fed government policy on this subject with no discussion tolerated. As for the press, I don't know which papers you read but all the ones I take (The Telegraph, The Guardian, The Independant & The Times) positively overdose on pro climate change articles.
Maybe the reason that the masses don't believe the hysteria is that it is they that end up paying for the Governments global warming folly and that it is all a load of bo77ocks anyway.
Green strategy.....
[info]victormc wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 09:14 am (UTC)
What do you mean 'mainly' hot air? It is all 100% hot air.
Nuclear is the ONLY known way forward and we have allowed the French and German to get 20 years ahead....dear Oh dear.
PS: Can you not harness hot air to drive trains or something?
A Waste of Ten Years
[info]redroseandy wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 09:17 am (UTC)
We need to adopt a near-zero CO2 plan at the same time that we begin to take out all CO2 made by man out of the environment by making biochar as fast as possible. In order to achieve the target we must make politicians wage increases inversely proportional to the change in CO2 emissions. Otherwise we will continue to get hot air from them. Tony Blair boasted that he had read many near-zero CO2 plans but adopted none of them. Well that was a waste of ten years then.
The big green con
[info]derekcolman wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 10:23 am (UTC)
Your criticism of falling green taxes is strange. Green taxes are meant to make us reduce our CO2 output or pay for it, so surely a falling tax income year on year indicates the policy is successful.However, because of government incompetence, I don't believe that is what is actually happening.
Of course governments continue to go on about CO2 and global warming because they know it's a vote winner and a chance to raise more taxes. They know full well that it is the big green con. It's demonstrably untrue, as the Earth has been cooling for the last 10 years, despite a 5% increase in CO2 levels in the atmosphere.
It seems that no politician has the guts to tell us the real truth, but when do they ever? The real truth is that we need to take urgent action now to cut our reliance on fossil fuels and change to renewables, because those fuels are going to run out, probably in the life time of our current school children. But it seems that is a boring message, and they prefer to rely on sensational rubbish like Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth"
Re: The big green con
[info]blandnic wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 11:07 am (UTC)
Check out Monckton's rebuttal of catastrphic global warming.
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/reprint/markey_and_barton_letter.pdf
See what a wind farm is doing to the city where we live.
www.palmerston-north.info
Re: The big green con
[info]imogenlucy wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 12:03 pm (UTC)

The Science and Public Policy Institute, who wrote this rebuttal, is apparently funded by ExxonMobil.
Re: The big green con
[info]blandnic wrote:
Monday, 20 April 2009 at 03:56 am (UTC)
Imogenlucy

"The Science and Public Policy Institute, who wrote this rebuttal, is apparently funded by ExxonMobil."

You don't offer proof, not that that matters, it's the facts that matter and the facts presented by Monckton can't be rebutted. You raise the question of funding. Who funds the billions of dollars spent on climate research skewed to catastrophic warmism? - well let me tell you, it's you, if you are a taxpayer, and the "rent seekers" are more than happy to grab your dough.
Re: The big green con
[info]derekcolman wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 02:45 am (UTC)
blandnic, you have misunderstood me. I was not advocating wind farms as a viable form of renewable energy, or indeed any of the hairbrained ideas that are presently being pursued. I was pointing out the need to find viable sources of renewable energy in the future. We probably have around 100 years to do that, as fossil fuels will run out eventually. Wind farms are definitely not viable, as none of them has ever produced more than a third of their rated output, they rely on heavy subsidies, and are detrimental to wildlife. Biofuels lead to food shortages and starvation. Nuclear power is marginally viable, but it seems there is not enough recoverable uranium for it to replace all fossil fuelled power stations. But surely if sufficient money is put into research, we could come up with something better in 100 years. After all, look where technology was 100 years ago. At the moment money is being wasted on ideas that have no future.
I am not impressed by the nimby argument. Power generators have to go somewhere, and most of those whingers are only complainig because the profit on their property investment will be reduced, but not wiped out. Maybe their property values will drop to a level where local people will once again be able to live in the village where they were born.
Re: The big green con
[info]blandnic wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 04:41 am (UTC)
My apologies, Derek I agree with what you have said. Solar, in particular used to heat water, has yet to be properly exploited. In the end we may well have to do with a lot less, certainly the generations before us did. Large scale wind farms are very expensive to install and maintain and ultimately rely on fossil fuel at all stages of their life.
The great green swindle
[info]wormery wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 11:25 am (UTC)
Everything 'green' is a con:
the yummy mummy lecturing others about being green despite being a greedy selfish wasteful sanctimonious spoilt hypocrite;
the scam of ripping people off by charging them for plastic bags in supermarkets;
the lie that buying 'green' will save the planet - usually believed in by wasteful people whose belief in consumer society and waste knows no bounds; the lack of awareness that climate change has always been happening because the climate is never fixed;
the deliberate lack of focus on the real issue - overpopulation - and lack of action (when will we start taxing those with children more for their utter selfishness and greed?).

Still, maybe it's better if humanity becomes exctinct anyway, so breed away people!
Re: The great green swindle
[info]dave_2121 wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 12:43 pm (UTC)

I agree that population growth needs to be - gently, by encouragement and not by force - halted, but it seems, from this comment and those you have made in other threads, that your logic is not that it needs to be done, but that you simply hate people in general and would like them all to die! You particularly hate parents with children, yet you must have been a child yourself once, and probably had parents. Do you perhaps have some unresolved issues going on that would be more appropriately addressed with a therapist than by attempting to derail constructive discussion by people who, quite understandably and naturally, wish to plan for a secure future?
Green Tosh!
[info]kodak321 wrote:
Monday, 20 April 2009 at 12:01 am (UTC)
A Great Green Con? Too damn right. The whole thing is a con, and only idiots, pseudo new age dope smokers, and genetically modified wankers, would agree with this propoganda. Hot air, I'll say.
The Great Green CO2 Con
[info]rooster281 wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 08:11 am (UTC)
Geoffrey Lean is right about a great green con, but not in the way he means it. The government of course realise that the whole CO2 thing is a a great green con, but they have to pay lip service to it and it suits their purpose for more taxes, whilst knowing that they have to have nuclear and they have to have coal, otherwise we will run out of energy.
The Great Green Con
[info]pete_in_crete wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 12:29 pm (UTC)
We can do virtually nothing to vary the course of any changes that the climate wishes to make and I would have thought that we were very arrogant to think that we can. Meanwhile, I am happy with the climate (mainly because I live in Greece I suppose). I am increasingly annoyed with the exploitation of distorted and flawed science by politicians, and even some among the scientific community, to make money or increase power/status. It is immoral. There is no need to have a "Minister of State for Climate Change". It is either opportunistic or a sinecure job for one of the boys.

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