Health & Families

Rain (AM and PM) 12° London Hi 14°C / Lo 10°C

The Big Question: Who are the Jehovah's Witnesses, and why do they refuse blood transfusions?

By Paul Vallely, Associate editor


The growing numbers of Jehovah's Witnesses

Why ask now?

Because Emma Gough, a 22-year-old mother has just died in a Shrewsbury hospital hours after giving birth to twins. She was a Jehovah's Witness (JW) and had refused a blood transfusion. There are 130,000 JWs in the UK, and almost seven million worldwide. Their numbers have almost doubled in 20 years.

Believers – who include the tennis stars Venus and Serena Williams, model Naomi Campbell, and singers Prince and Michael Jackson – routinely sign forms before hospital treatment insisting on no transfusions. They say the Bible forbids them.

What exactly do they believe?

Jehovah's Witnesses are an off-shoot of Adventist Christians, who think the world is about to end. They began in 19th century America when a Protestant farmer named William Miller predicted the second coming of Christ would happen on 22 October 1844. When it didn't – a non-event which became known as The Great Disappointment – the Millerites fragmented into various factions, including the Seventh Day Adventists. The JWs grew from this culture. (In 1966 they said the world would, probably, end in 1975, which set back the movement's growth for three years, but it recovered.)

The JWs are biblical literalists. If they can't find an idea in the Bible they insist it's wrong. So they reject standard Christian doctrines like the idea that Jesus was God, that he died on a cross, that he was physically resurrected, that souls live after death, that Hell exists etc. Ideas they do find in the Bible lead them to reject gambling, masturbation, abortion, homosexuality and excessive public displays of affection.

So what is with all the knocking on front doors?

The movement was founded by a a chap called Charles Taze Russell in 1879. he called his followers "Bible Students". An emphasis on house-to-house preaching began in 1922 and they changed their name to the Jehovah's Witnesses (after Isaiah 43:10) in 1931.

The idea is that JWs are "in the world but not of it". So they live and work among the general community, and send their children to state schools, but every member spends at least 70 hours a month on door-to-door missionary activity. They have no professional clergy; all baptised members are considered ordained ministers.

In 2005 Jehovah's Witnesses around the world spent over 1.2 billion hours on missionary work, handing out their magazine, Watchtower. Published in 161 languages it has an average print run of 27 million, making it the largest circulation magazine in the world.

So why are they such figures of fun?

No one likes having their evening's telly interrupted. But it's more than that. Their publicly-flaunted separatism irks or angers others. They don't fit in. They refuse to celebrate Christmas. They don't vote at elections. They decline to salute flags or sing nationalist songs. In the First World War in Britain, Canada and the USA they refused to fight and their American leaders got 20 year sentences for treason. In Nazi Germany they refused to say Heil Hitler and denounced the swastika as idolatrous. Half of them were sent to concentration camps where their purple triangle badges indicated they could be released if they recanted their religion. Few did. Half of them died there. In the US, three quarters of all conscientious objectors were JWs. In Britain they were tarred and feathered. So it goes on. Today they are persecuted in Russia, Uzbekistan, Belarus, and Cuba.

Why don't other religions stick up for them?

Because they have gone out of their way to be rude about them. They have their own, rather eccentric, translation of the Bible and rubbish everyone else's beliefs as "mere human speculations or religious creeds". They have routinely described the Roman Catholic Church as a "semiclad harlot reeling drunkenly into fire and brimstone". Then there are "the so-called Protestants" and the "Yiddish" clergy "like foolish simpletons" participating in "the world empire of false religion". I could go on. They do. They are not exactly big on inter-faith.

What's the situation with child abuse?

Not good. They take Deuteronomy 19:15 literally, which demands two witnesses to a crime (not easy in cases of abuse). And they cite 1 Corinthians 6:1-11 – "Does anyone of you that has a case against the other dare to go to court before unrighteous men, and not before the holy ones?" – to justify trying to deal with criminals with courts of elders rather than courts of law. A Panorama investigation reported they have an internal list of 23,720 reported abusers which they keep private. Studies in the US suggest they have four times more sexual assaults on children than the Catholic Church.

So where does blood fit in?

They cite four biblical texts (Genesis 9:4, Leviticus 17:12-14, Acts 15:29 and Acts 21:25). They say these mean that blood, the life-force, belongs to God and is not there for human use. They believe it a sin to eat not just black pudding but also to eat the flesh of animals that have not been properly bled.

And they extend the ban to transfusions. They won't even allow someone's blood to be stored before an operation and then used after it to replace their own blood loss. Blood is not to be stored; it is to be poured out and returned to God. Some JWs even reject dialysis or cell salvage on these grounds. Some will not accept red cells, white cells, platelets or plasma, but accept "fractions" made from these components.

There is a philosophical problem here. When a substance is broken down into components does the original remain? Some 90-96 per cent of blood plasma consists of water. The remainder is albumin, globulins, fibrinogen and coagulation factors. JWs say these may be used, according to conscience, but only if taken separately. Opponents say is like outlawing a ham and cheese sandwich but allowing the eating of bread, ham and cheese separately.

They are criticised for other inconsistencies. Blood fraction products are only available because of blood donation – a practice JWs condemned as unethical.

But didn't they change their policy a few years back?

No. In 2000 the church council announced that it would no longer expel members who had willingly had a blood transfusion. But only because by doing so they had excommunicated themselves.

Many JWs still carry a signed and witnessed advance directive card absolutely refusing blood in the event of an accident. And the church's website still carries alarmist material about the dangers of transfusions in transmitting Aids, Lyme Disease and other conditions. It also exaggerates the effectiveness of alternative non-blood medical therapies.

What do doctors think?

The British Association of Anaesthetists guidelines insist that the wishes of the patient must normally be paramount. US doctors take a similar view; they know giving blood to someone who does not want it could get them sued – one of the busiest trauma hospitals in Florida even has a blanket policy of refusing to treat JWs.

Other countries, like France, take a more dirigiste view. And a landmark case in Dublin recently ruled that doctors were right to give a woman blood during childbirth because the right of her child to have a mother over-ruled her own right to refuse the blood.

There are even more subtle dilemmas to come. One asks whether doctors are obliged to give chemotherapy, which is normally accompanied by a blood transfusion, to patients who insist on having it without the blood, without which it is highly likely to fail. As medicine advances things are likely to get more, rather than less, tricky.

Post a Comment

View all comments that have been posted about this article.

Offensive or abusive comments will be removed and your IP logged and may be used to prevent further submission. In submitting a comment to the site, you agree to be bound by the Independent Minds Terms of Service.

Comments

wtf?
[info]tomblizzard wrote:
Saturday, 17 January 2009 at 10:40 am (UTC)
can i just point out that 99% of this article is bogus rubbish.they do not think the "world is about to end" (of course if there was any real research in this article you would know what i mean by that), and i like how you've put quote marks around things which aren't actually quotes. very creative. not every member spends at least 70 hours witnessing, only "pioneers" do, just ask one of them and you could find the problems that make this article so ridiculous. oh and the whole 2000 change of policy? never happened. ALL "jws" still carry an advance directive card, and exaggerating the effectiveness of non blood medical therapies? in which case its the doctors who have been doing that, because thats where they get the research from. theyre not simpletons throwing their lives away for no reason, they stick to their beliefs (which is more than you can say for some people) but are careful with their lives. they have a commitee of people who deal with the whole blood thing, talking to doctors to make everything work from both the doctors and the patients point of view. one final thing - child abuse. bullshit. that list doesnt exist, and in fact all "elders" who know about child abuse declare it to the authorities before excomunnicating (or disfellowshipping) the person. the two witnesses thing doesn't apply with child abuse because of its nature.

For reference, i am not a jehovahs witness. I'm a son and friend of one, though i've decided not to be one because of theological reasons. I'm disgusted that a newspapers website would print such rubbish.

Get it right, or don't print it at all.
Re: wtf?
[info]nicnacnoc0 wrote:
Saturday, 14 February 2009 at 03:40 pm (UTC)
I used to be a witness and I recall at least two incidents where child sexual abuse came to light but it was all hushed up "in case it brought reproach on the organisation" (ie. Jehovah's Witnesses). Also, they do teach that all relgions except for their own are evil and part of "satan's system" soon to come to an end (that end being armageddon). Although it's not as bad as it once was, they like to keep followers uneducated as it stops them becoming enlightened and able to see the bigger picture. The hypocrisy in this religion knows no bounds.
Re: wtf?
[info]boobee_51 wrote:
Friday, 17 April 2009 at 08:07 am (UTC)
Tomblizard I don't think you know the witnesses of jehoahs because all what has saind in this article is true, they do believe that the World is coming to an end, that after death the soul lives, about the blood transfusions etc. etc.. I personally don't agree to all their beliefs cause I have my own and how I was brought up, but to some of theirs I do. So before you or anyone else types RUBBISH inform yourselves.
This article is really unfair
[info]jwcpp wrote:
Thursday, 22 January 2009 at 11:31 pm (UTC)
Many Witnesses are shocked at the misinformation disseminated by critics about their child protection policy and the uncritical way it has been accepted by some journalists. We would like to have the opportunity to explain the situation as we see it. For further details, please visit: http://jwcpp.freehost10.com . Thank you.
What an appalling article!
[info]gillian141 wrote:
Wednesday, 28 January 2009 at 05:55 pm (UTC)
I have never seen such an article in the quality press show such disrespect for other people's religious views.

It's disgusting that you would attack a religious minority in this way, because, in your view, "they don't fit in". Does everyone have to follow the herd? What about tolerance and pluralism? I'd like to see you publish a similar article about the Muslims and see the reaction you get.

How up to date is your information? For instance, when exactly have we described clergy as "foolish simpletons"? Certainly not in the last fifty years? No such expression appears in the database of Watch Tower literature (1950 - present). Nor is there any reference to "so-called protestants" At any rate, not since long before most Witnesses living today were even born. All right, we believe other religions are false. Why shouldn't we? Or is believing another religion to be false the exclusive prerogative of your associate editor? For that matter, how can most religions not be false, when their doctrines and precepts contradict each other wildly.

We do not spend 70 hours a month preaching (at least most of us don't); you really should get your facts straight.

Finally, if, as you insist, we said in 1966 that the world was probably going to end in 1975, then how do you explain this quotation from the 1966 Watchtower: "Don?t any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975"? - 15th October 1966.

Re: What an appalling article!
[info]37selin78 wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 11:51 am (UTC)
Fair Article!

I find this article very fair. I met a few of them and must admit that they were unable to answer my questions. However, I have done many research about JW and do agree with the article above and believe that they mislead many topics. I also must emphasize that it is very childish of you to try to direct the argument on another religious belief. Before I write off, no one can ruin the joy of Christmas day for my babies.
JWs
[info]rawjohnelk wrote:
Monday, 2 February 2009 at 10:44 am (UTC)
What a disgraceful article! Full of lies. If this is your standard of journalism then it's obvious you are not to be taken seriously.
who are Jehovah's witnesses
[info]aadriver wrote:
Friday, 13 February 2009 at 05:31 pm (UTC)
My goodness who doesn't like the truth then?
The article is actually a very good honest description of the witnesses.
The only real point that is wrong is the number of hours spent a month witnessing. They indeed do not spend 70 hours a month witnessing, the figure is much nearer 7, which considering they are teaching that anyone who does not line themselves up with the organisation will be executed at Armageddon is pretty meagre.
Although it is not the end of the world literally you are simply splitting hairs because it is taught that all human governments, religions and peoples current way of life will end.
The Panorama programme was totally truthful in what it said. Do you think if it was all lies the Watchtower lawyers would not have sued them.
As regards the blood issue the society has changed it's views over the years as can be seen by checking old Watchtower magazines. Nowdays parts of blood can be used where as years ago it was a blanket no no.
Luckily since the onset of the internet, people are now much more aware of this organisation and that is why there is little or no growth in most internet countries.
Re: who are Jehovah's witnesses
[info]1963debby wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 09:25 am (UTC)
I think you will find that JW do mean the end of this world all people who are not JW no matter how small will die at the great war of Jehovah!!
and the 1st job the JW will have is to bury all our dead bodies this i was told while doing a bible study from a JW.
the world as we know it will end government we will be ruled by Jesus and the 144,000 in the heavens as jesus is king and become king in 1914.
the houses will be gone we are told we will have to build our own homes!!!
we dont need docs as we will never get sick or die.
and we will live off the land growing our own veg.
no TV, no Cinema, No pubs, clubs nothing but listening to more blah blah blah from them sounds like hell to me
Re: who are Jehovah's witnesses
[info]justagirlhere wrote:
Sunday, 28 June 2009 at 01:25 pm (UTC)
aadriver, surely one or two innacuracies here and there, by the associate editor no less, are disgraceful and calls the whole article into question? Or do you regularaly read papers and books full of fiction and regard them as truth?

And the reason why blood was a blanket no-no years ago is because the technology wasn't as advanced as we have it now. Now, artifical fractions can be used. How were they to know about this 30-50 years ago?
Jehovahs Witnesses
[info]shebitz wrote:
Monday, 16 February 2009 at 10:10 pm (UTC)
What a disgusting article with so many things said and which are patently untrue.

I am not a witness,but rather an agnostic, with two witnesses as my neighbours. Quite a few hours are spent in their company as we are all retiredpeople and never once in the 15 years I have known them have they ever tried to preach to me or to convert me. Instead, they are the kindest people I have come across - honest, trustworthy and with more feeling for other people than any of the so called 'christians' I have met in my many years of living on this planet. I often question them about their beliefs (the only time religion is discussed!) and sometimes poo poo them but that is taken in good part and I know their beliefs are sincere and steadfast. Your comments on the blood transfusion issue are also untrue. There are some witnesses who refuse other people's blood but my neighbour recently underwent a serious operation and was transfused her own blood throughout, The comments on preaching are also false - please try not to generalise - as these two people go to a meeting twice a week which is surely their own business. Hitler tried to exterminate them as he did with people of other religions and I think your article echoes his way of thinking.

[info]r1u2t3h4 wrote:
Tuesday, 3 March 2009 at 01:41 pm (UTC)
It is true that scripturaly two witnesses are required to back up any accusation of wrong doing.Historicaly this was a protection against injustice . this however has no bearing on legal matters. To imply that elders take the place of the courts of law is simply not true. they are not our police men. Never would a family be discouraged from taking such a matter to court. If the legal system fails to administer justice this is a reflection on the legal system not our faith. Like wise if a family chooses not to prosecut that is a family matter.
It is probably true that due to human error and naivety, in the past mistakes where made. However as this world becomes increasingly repulsive, you will find we and our children, are now better than ever equiped to deal with its perversions.
[info]jimbo99 wrote:
Saturday, 21 March 2009 at 10:42 am (UTC)
all this not celebrating christmas and birthdays lark is a load of rubbish these jahovah's witnesses should grow up and accept modern society. Parents who force their children into it are making them into outcasts which isn't fair on the child. They should stand back and look at the overall picture and fine they can believe what they want but why do they feel the need to make other people believe the same.
I agree
[info]1963debby wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 09:18 am (UTC)
I agrew with you I have just left the JW congrgation of Feltham Middlesex and they are so up their own bums,
most true JW wouldnt be on this site putting comments as we are told not to in case we are brainwashed thats what they say well I say maybe its because we have our eyes opened.
so why are there JW on here putting their view when all we heasr is their view
opiniated
[info]jezza8043 wrote:
Sunday, 22 March 2009 at 09:59 pm (UTC)
ive spoken to jehovahs witnesses a few times they seem like real nice people. there is no question i have asked that they havent been able to answer using the bible unlike other churches i have visited who rarely take the time to explain and if they do they say its a mystery and we are not suppose to know. im sure they dont get paid for what they do, and the part where it says they refused to go to war is true becasue the bible condems violence, if everybody was like this them there would be peace, ive looked up christmans and birthdays and it is all past pagan traditions or @false religion@ you could call it. there is no mention in the bible of a celebration of jesus birthday. and it would of been impossible to be born in december, (also romans changed birth certificate), the main mention of jesus in the bible was all about his preaching work, and doesnt the bible say we should be imatators of christ, and preach (matthew 24v14) no mention of cross in the bible, jehovahs name is mentioned over 7000times in the original scriptures which i HAVE seen for myself.
Jehovah's Witnesses
[info]sarah9513 wrote:
Monday, 6 April 2009 at 11:11 pm (UTC)
Hi. My name is Sarah and I just turned 14 and I firmly beleive in the truth. I am a Jehovah's Witnesses. We DO NOT beleive that the world is about to end. It might be very far away in fact but no one knows of the date the world will come to it's end. We are just trying to help as many people as we can. I was born and raised in the truth and you might ask if i would die for Jehovah. Yes I would. If I lived back in the time of when the Natzis were killing Jehovah's Witnesses, and if they said that if I signed a cobntract to obey Hitler then i would be free, I WOULDNT SIGN IT. and if he said that if i didnt sign it id die, I WOULD STILL NOT SIGN IT CAUSE I KNOW THAT I WOULD BE IN PARADISE ON EARTH AND THE PAIN WOULD ONLY LAST SO LONG. if there is any way for you to reply to this, plz do it.
Re: Jehovah's Witnesses
[info]1963debby wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 09:15 am (UTC)
you are so young and your brain has been washed already, these people although do have some gr8 ideas about helping you live a better healtheir life also try to control your life.
what about a 3 day assembly brainwashing everyone knows that the brain has a 20 minute learning curve and can take 20 minutes of talking then applies what you have learnt hence school lessons, driving lessons but for 3 days blah blah blah and then all the prep going into it before you even attend, you think that is a life?????
The false truth - dare you question your faith?
[info]n11bot wrote:
Tuesday, 7 April 2009 at 12:18 pm (UTC)
What this article does not express, and vitally should, is that the Jehovah's Witness movement is a cult that uses mind control and emotional bribery to maintain and swell its ranks of followers. How many Witnesses would really take the time to study how mind control works and see their 'faith' ticks all the boxes. That is not to say they are not often jolly nice people who appear to care for each other enthusiastically - why that is all a part of the system to inveigle recruits and retain them.
The Big Question: Who are the Jehovah's Witnesses, and why do they refuse blood transfusions?
[info]qwaszx1 wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 11:40 pm (UTC)
Untill reading this article I had the idea that the Independent was a reputable Newspaper, one

that could be relied upon to present an unbiased account of the facts. It seems however, by the quality

of this article, that I was very much mistaken. It seems that the author has a personal dislike of

Jehovah's witnesess and this sets the tone of the article. Any discerning reader, whether pro or anti

Jehovah's Witnesess cannot but be shocked by the poor standard of writing and lack of research this

article displays.


I find the authors attitude towards the Witnesess in Nazi Germany, who refused to say Heil Hitler and

who denounced the swastika as idolatrous, rather strange. By listing this under the subheading 'So why

are they such figures of fun?.' Is he suggesting that they should have supported Hitler?

As a nurse of over thirty years experience and as a cancer patient I can dispute the assertion that

chemotherapy is 'normally accompianed by a blood transfusion.' Sometimes it may be advised if blood

values drop, however there are alternative measures which can be taken which are equally effective

and thus chemotherapy is not any more likely to fail. The author makes the statement 'As medicine

advances things are likely to get more, rather than less, tricky.' This is a weak assertion with no

and no attempt to clarify the statement. What does he mean by this? If the author wants thinking

people to take him seriously then his aurguments need to be backed up by facts, research and

unbiased presentation





An interview w/ a real JW's!
[info]jw_chelly15 wrote:
Sunday, 19 April 2009 at 07:10 pm (UTC)
Hi. My name is Chelsea and I'm 15 yrs. old. I'm an unbabptized publisher, and I go out in the ministy to declare the good news, and exalt Jehovah, God's name! One thing I found interesting about this article, is that your slandering the name of JW's, about how we're supposdely being rude to other religion. And that supposdly we're talking bad about them. The only thing is, is that your doing the exact same thing with this article! So you have no right to talk.
And just to clear something up, we DO NOT believe in Trinity! I'm going to share a scripture just to prove why. (and there's many more than this scripture.) In the book of Mark, chapter 1 verses 10&11, it says: " And immediately on coming up out of the water he saw the heavens being parted, and, like a dove, the spirit coming down upon him; and a voice cam out of the heavens: You are my son, the beloved; I have approved you." Now how can the holy spirit, God, and Jesus be all the same, if it clearly states here that the spirit came upon Jesus, and God said that Jesus was his son? And in Genisis 1:2 it states that the holy spirit is God's active force.
I'm also going to tell you of another scripture, so that you can have an understanding about why we go out door to door. In the book of Matthew 28:19-20 it says: "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the son, and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And, look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things." Now that scripture clearly states why we go out in service, why trinity is not true, and that the system of things is going to end (we just don't know when).
If by some way you can reply to this comment, please do so. I would be more than happy to answer any more questions.
-JW's/ Psalms 9:1-2 "I will laud (you), O Jehovah, with all my heart; I will declare all your wonderful works. I will rejoice and exult in you, I will make melody to your name, O Most High."
a thought to think about.
[info]sophiamkl wrote:
Tuesday, 21 April 2009 at 06:44 pm (UTC)
even if jehovahs witnesses are wrong (which they arnt actully they are extreamly supportive) their way of living is best, the guidelines they follow are for their protection even though they are restrictive.
[info]rosiex_x wrote:
Wednesday, 22 April 2009 at 05:35 pm (UTC)
i think this religion is a strange one to follow. i dont follow it so i find it hard to understand why, for example blood transfusions are rejected. wouldnt you want to survive rather than 'dissapoint god'? i think the whole thing is rather strange but also a wrong way of life.
[info]thinkingprole wrote:
Friday, 24 April 2009 at 06:56 pm (UTC)
well when they all finally get taken up in the mother ship I for one will be a lot happier! I can think of only a few things worse than surviving the "armageddon" only to end up with 144000 mind washed clones. I'm all for peace but cant abide blind faith without doubting or questioning the credibility of those esposing how I should live my life.

ps anybody know what the official jehovah stance is on darwin vs creationist?
not tru
[info]nick_tug wrote:
Monday, 4 May 2009 at 09:48 pm (UTC)
if just everyone could be like them. world would be just grat, no wars, no crime, things would be just fine.

i think we should all think about that. rather than just saying lies about them. and yes they are lies, my friend showed me (who is JW) in the bible about persecution tuwords true religion and there it is you are just doing it lol. that just pruves it. its just in my minde now, thats just happened in this web.
i have just left the JW
[info]1963debby wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 09:03 am (UTC)
I will agree to disagree with some of the comments that others have written,
The JW are waiting for the "end of this system of things" which they tell us now is very near due to the chapters in Revelations the end book of the bible it claearly states that jesus and his armies are waiting for them to wage war on this world and all those who are not JW.
I have found while being in this organisatin that it is never what you know but who you are related to in the congregation. my husbands dad is an elder and my husband has beat me and the children, left us without any food to enjoy holidays with other brothers (Memeber of the congregation) and the elders even though I have told them and they have seen for themselves the pain he has out us through they have done nothing, unlike myself who started up smoking again due to all the stress of the "brainwashing" and abuse at home and they quickly stripped me of my U.B.P ( unbaptized publisher) was alowed to preach door to door where as my husband still goes door to door telling the GR8 news which he doesnt stick to at home. it is all a farce and to prove it my husband mother (who is baptized) still visits her disfellowshipped son for the whole 7 years he has been disfellowshipped, she has been reported for doing this on 5 occassions and the elders have let her get away with this WHY?? because her husband is an elder!!!!!! I use to think all Jahs rules and regulations were there for all of us to be treated the same, but i now see it is just the ones that question them rules and regulations that are chucked out.
my husband puts his god before the children and me, if it was a case of me being in hospital or attending a meeting he would attend the meeting!!!!
I have now left the congregatin and I am far happier with my life, because its one thing for my husband to tell me what to do but another when all the people in the Feltham Middlesex Congregation do just that and tell me to rely on Jah and I havent seen no help from him and his elders just brainwashing and abuse of power.
I would never set foot again inside a kingdom hall again as it is a snake pit!!!!!!!!!
Re: i have just left the JW
[info]lee6370 wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 02:00 pm (UTC)
My experiance of JW's is much the same, i lived next door to a family of JW's about 10 years ago, in Swanley Kent, and the father regularly got drunk and beat his 14 year old son and when i say beat i mean he would punch him in the face, this lad had black eyes and bruises all the time.

As for JW's teachings, lets take them being conscientious objectors - didn't jesus take up a whip and drive the money changers out of the temple?
jws
[info]pebblesom wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 02:05 pm (UTC)
jws dont brainwash people and if u beleive that to be true then theres an awful lot of blank minded uneducated and pathetic people in this world,as for any religion they bring there children up to beleive waht they teach about there faith and what they beleive to be true as do the wittneses, the only people who dont are the ones with no faith but arnt they also pushing there opinions on there children also,children that i see were i live today are so bad from young to young adults now they have no respect at all they are foul mouthed druggies or drunkards and yobs andiv even had small children as young as 3 swear at me telling me t f off,theres a witness family near me and thers 8 children in that family ages ranging from 1 to 18 and every single one of them are respectful happy helpful kind when iv spoken to them they have always be very polite well dresses clean and well looked after so i think its only a very small minority who may not be as they say but considering the majority of the world i think these people need a medal to keep there children and themselfs in such a respectful way as regards of todays life styles and goins on,id rather live in a world with these peolpe than live in the world of people im surounded by now,weather there faith is right or not,to me its not just faith that makes a good person its attituded and the worlds atidudes now are bad,the only reason people knock the witneses is because they cant live by there standards
[info]rich1202 wrote:
Tuesday, 19 May 2009 at 12:30 am (UTC)
i think there is no such thing as god, if god was real, why would he let the twin towers collapes, why wod he allow his Children to be killed, he is ment to be our FATHER AND HE ALLOWS THAT TO HAPPEN, WAT KIND OF FATHER ALLOWS HIS KIDS TO DIE. ITS WRONG RELIGION IS THE COURSE OF ALOT OF WARS AND PPL NEED TO GET IN THERE HEADS, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS GOD.
Responding to rich 1202
[info]loriwells wrote:
Saturday, 30 May 2009 at 04:31 am (UTC)
If there is no God.....what made you? I refuse to believe in the impossibility that I was a bunch of matter thrown together by chance. Who made the matter? Something can not come from nothing. You really need to understand the basis of Christianity to understand why the horrible things occur or are allowed. Our God is not a control freak who created us to be robotic followers. He gave us choice and freewill because He loves us and wants us to choose to love him. He does not coerce us into loving him. Many of the atrocities today are committed by man who chooses, not God. If God were to step in and take over he would take from us our freedom to choose. Would you want to be controlled? No one likes a controlling Father. We all want a Father who guides and disciplines us but then lets us choose how we live. We all want a Father who welcomes us with open arms even when we don't listen to him and we make mistakes. That is what God does. He created you, every cell. YOu are precious to him whether you CHOOSE to believe it or not. P.S. ( I am not JW).
Re: Responding to rich 1202
[info]greekqueen70 wrote:
Monday, 1 June 2009 at 12:54 am (UTC)
If there was a god I wish he would hurry up and appear..not holding my breath mind you, cause I am an atheist and proud, I believe in the here and now, in things I have witnessed and heard and seen, not in fairytale bible stories and being preached to and brainwashed, we all have a brain so please USE it and think logically, teach your children to have open minds but also to seek proof for everything, dont feel ashamed or guilty, be strong and proud and believe in what you have NOW, not what might be or was, I despair for anyone who follows a religion or believes in a god especially if it involves the young, you can have good discipline without following a religion, there is another choice freedom and being self taught and being strong enough to laugh in the face or superstition, tradition and religion, go on I dare you to try it! or else be a sheep!
[info]everton777 wrote:
Monday, 8 June 2009 at 02:05 am (UTC)
This reading is so untrue i think it was 10minutes of my life wasted to be honest jw are great and most of what you said was drival and when you said that they judge other religions isnt that what your doing and catholics and prosidents went to war with that they meaning jehovah wittneses dont believe in it because they dont believe in killing other people whats wrong in that

By the way why do people believe in christmas your totally getting ripped off some jws that i no give there children presents at different time of the year xmas is all about commercialism these days not about god or jesus but you say that jws are simpletons and your the one getting ripped off every xmas and easter and birthdays wots the point of birthdays anyway your celebrating people who maybe murderers and saying to your kids have what you want life isnt like that thats why people are getting more spoilt
Shoddy Journalism = No Facts Part I
[info]justagirlhere wrote:
Sunday, 28 June 2009 at 01:20 pm (UTC)
What fine journalism Mr Vallerly (!)

Background info: I'm in my 20s, and raised a Witness. I am intelligent and work in the City of London. I have researched other religions and ways of life. I cannot agree with any other teachings, other than those I've been taught. I cannot agree in the theory of evolution, atheism, or any other religions. To me, from my own PERSONAL research into the Bible, I can see that Jehovah's Witnesses really are teaching the truth about God.

A few flaws I'd like to point out:

"Jehovah's Witnesses are an off-shoot of Adventist Christians, who think the world is about to end"

A little more elaboration would have been nice. Witnesses do not believe the world will end by nuclear war/meteor strike etc etc. The earth as it is is fine and has the capacity to regrow and restore itself. The bible mentions that the Earth will stand forever. The end of the world refers to the time when God will step in and remove all the unrighteous from HIS Earth. It can be illustrated in this way: If you owned a house, decorated it the way you wanted and rented it out to a family, who then trashed the place, caused problems and generally were being a nuisance, you would evict them wouldn't you? You wouldn't put up with their behavour. You also wouldn't tear down the house. In the same way, God (the landlord) created the Earth (HIS house) for us (the tenants) to live in. The majority of humans are acting in a selfish and unjust and unrighteous way, so God has every right to remove them from his property. There will be survivors of Armageddon, and the earth will still remain.

"If they can't find an idea in the Bible they insist it's wrong."

We don't insist it's wrong, we say it's not what God has taught therefore why should we follow it? Ideals like Christmas being on Dec 25th, birthdays and Easter Eggs/bunny rabbit celebrations have been proven and are recognised as Pagan teachings, which is why we don't celebrate them. In short, we base our beliefs on the Bible, on what GOD wants, and not what suits the age we're living on, or our own personal preferences. NBy researching into the Bible, many have found that teachings such as hellfire, eternal damnation and the like are false. But then again, jesus did say he'd take the wisdom of God's truths from the intelectually wise and give them to people who are willing and openhearted and minded.

"So they live and work among the general community, and send their children to state schools, but every member spends at least 70 hours a month on door-to-door missionary activity"

We do work and live in the community, and we pay our taxes and are willing and loving neigbours. Every member most certainly does not spend 70 hours a month preaching. Those that can, and are able, can choose to Regular Pioneer (70 hours) or Auxillary Pioneer (50 hours.) Each person who wishes to do so must carefully contemplate whether he can make the commitment for that month, and that none in his ot her family would suffer. Others who cannot pioneer through whatever reason can offer as much time as they can, usually on weekends. We also have a provision for the elderly, whereby they can preach and count time in 15 minute intervals.

Also, the ministry is not solely door-to-door, which Mr Vallerly would have noticed if this article was based on fact. Avenues of minitry can include construction projects, relief work in counrties suffering with political and natural disaters, street work, business work, port witnessing, and much much more.

"They refuse to celebrate Christmas."

Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and any other smaller religiois denominations across the world also do not celebrate Christmas. Big deal. And most who do celebrate it now only view it as a commercial day, to give presents. I'm sure many children don't know more about the story of Jesus birth than the so called nativity story. I know I didn't miss out on anything, especially the tears my friends shod when they learnt that the what their parents told them about Santa was a complete and utter lie.
Cont...
Shoddy Journalism = No Facts Part II
[info]justagirlhere wrote:
Sunday, 28 June 2009 at 01:21 pm (UTC)
Part II
Also, it's funny how the star that Satan used to point the astrologers to Jesus in order that Herod could find Jesus and have him killed features such reverence on the top of trees and in the nativity. And we're the strange ones?

"They don't vote at elections"

As we believe the only govornment that's able to sort out the mess that the world and this country is in is Gods'. What power does man have? Even if he does have a good heart and rules a country well, in time he'll be replaced or die. Nothing is permanent and can give worldwide peace and security.

We also don't go to war. How can religious leaders bless troops and tell them God is on their side when Jesus told his own disciple to put away his sword after cutting the ear off one of the men coming to arrest him? Priests bless troops in the UK and say that God is with them. Priests bless troops in Germany and say God is with them. They're both Christian, so who's God meant to be with? Neither is the answer. God detests war, and any man hating is brother cannot be called a lover of God. If they cant love and treat their brother [read: any human] who they can see, how can they love God, who they can't see?

"In Nazi Germany they refused to say Heil Hitler and denounced the swastika as idolatrous."

Of course not! What sane person would have? Hitler's ideologies were the workings of a madman, and that's one reason witnesses seem odd? Witnesses were the only group of people who could have left the concentration camps with a simple tick of a box and a signature. They were vicimised by Hitler becasue the spoke the truth. Hitler tried every way he could to get rid of them, but despite murder, expulsion, prison and exile, Jehovah's people grew in number, and it was their faith in God that kept them going. No witnesses ever tried to escape the camps, they shared their food with others, believers and non-believers and are a great example for all those undergoing pressure from govornment.

On another note, we also will not address our elders by extravangant titles, or call them Father. There is a reason for this, again, found in the Bible. do some research, see if you can find it.

"They are not exactly big on inter-faith"

The rudeness of this article is astounding, btw. Anyway... God had his chosen people in Israel. Even in Egypt, the Israelistes weren't to participate in any of their false teachings. When they left Goshen and entered the wilderness they were explicitly warned not to get involved with any of the surrounding nations, not even associating with them, that true worship not be contaminated. So today, Witnesses believe we are God's true followers and we have the Truth about the Bible and his will. While we love to meet people with a faith in God, and believe me, those people are few and far between, we will not accept human teachings and doctine as from God. Many other denominations admit that their teachings are based on tradition and human teachings (such as celibacy with Roman Catholics) wheras we base everything on the Bible.

The religious leaders in this country reused the common people from owning a bible. They were not to read God's word. Those that did have a bible were burnt at the stake. Those that translated the Bible for the common people to read were killed savagely. Therefore, I cannot say that the Church of England, for one, is a religion that teaches the truth about God.
Shoddy Journalism = No Facts Part III
[info]justagirlhere wrote:
Sunday, 28 June 2009 at 01:21 pm (UTC)
"They take Deuteronomy 19:15 literally, which demands two witnesses to a crime (not easy in cases of abuse)."

Actually, in the case of child abuse, the authorities are informed immediately upon any accusation, and once an investigation is complete the congregation can then deal with the accused and accuser. This Mosaic Law was based upon trivial matters like stealing, adultery etc.

"So where does blood fit in?"

Good question. While we do not accept whole blood transfusion, there are matters that are up to a person's conscience. While I would be happy to have cell salvage and certain blood frgments, others would not. Doctors have a Hippocratic oath to honour and maintain. If one was allergic to penecillin, they would find other ways of treating that person, would they not? If a woman was adament she didn't want an epidural during childbirth, doctors would find other ways of helping her, would they not? So the same, if I was adamant that I didn't want blood, I have the right to state this and not be critisized and be medically treated in other ways.

Also, bloodless surgery is proven, not just claimed, to be better for the patient, with quicker healing times, less chances of infections and fatal diseases and more careful surgery procedures (hey, when every drop of blood is precious, why waste a drop?) I have personally seen this. The reason blood is so highly sought after in operations is that other methods are far to expensive for hospital managers to authorise use on every patient. You ask next time you're in a hospital what equipment they have for bloodless surgery. You'd be amazed at what they're witholding you and your loved ones.

Exaggerate? I think not.

Oh, and the reason that woman died is due to surgical error, not becasue she refused a transfusion.

I suppose some will be able to understand this stance. Those of other religions that don't eat meat and drink wine will understand that it's more important to please God than worry about survival or our own preference. Those that don't believe in God... well, who are they accountable to other than themselves? Maybe that's why there are so many selfish people out and about. They just have themselves to worry about, forget about other people.

We have a wonderful hope for the future, next time witnesses drop by, ask them what that is,m what hope we have for our dead loved ones (rather than just being told 'God wanted another star in Heaven' they'll show you what God has planned.) If someone was to die for not having blood, we believe that, had they remained faithful to God's wishes, we'll see them again in Paradise on Earth.

"As medicine advances things are likely to get more, rather than less, tricky."

Again, another blatant inadmission of research here. Some doctors find it still primitive that blood is so widely used. After all, we are talking about a procedure that's nearly 100 years old. Bloosless Surgery = Faster healing, as I've alread said, therefore less beds are needed, less medication and less expense in the long term. As for the risks of infection, why not speak to those who have contracted AIDS and Hep and ask them if they'd have another blood transfusion so quickly?

http://www.noblood.org/forums/

All in all, this article was written without much research (save for say, the surface research any three year old could do of the web) and without much thought for those that actually believe in Jehovah and the Bible.
???
[info]jambo8888 wrote:
Friday, 30 October 2009 at 02:01 pm (UTC)
whoever wrote this clearly doesn't properl understand the teachings of the JW's. For example it is not all members who have to do at least 70 hours a month on the ministry, it is only pioneers. Also they have two magazine the watchwoer and the Awake. They don't believe that all translations are wrong but thiers, in fact up until about 10 year ago they used the king james bible. The only problem is it didn't have gods name in it enough becuase it had been removed. All the new world translation is doing is putting it back in again.
There are also many other things that are inaccurate about this article. It is very biased. Maybe you should work on that. I am not a member but i know taht these people are probably the best becuase of their moral standards. If you want proper insught in to what they really believe visit thier official website www.watchtower.org
i dont think i want to be a member of this site anymore
[info]jambo8888 wrote:
Friday, 30 October 2009 at 02:09 pm (UTC)
I TOTALLY AGREE GILLIAN141
people dont talk aout the muslim faith in that way or the catholic religion so why show such disrespects towards jehovahs witnesess. Its desgraceful! You are lucky that they are such nice people and wouldn't cause big problems like most religions would. They just take it.the bible does say that they would be ridiculed. It was a sign of the last days. IUts quite amazing that people really do know who they are. You surf the internet and there are so many articles about them. amazing! it was just what jesus predicted.
Lies, Lies, Lies
[info]nolongeramember wrote:
Friday, 6 November 2009 at 03:49 pm (UTC)
I am a Jehovah's Witness and i can categorically say that this article is based on lies. I work for the BBC and before we post such a controversial article we do research to ensure we are accurate, i guess the rule of journalism no longer applies to the Independent. The inaccuracies in this post is outstanding how could the Independent be so wrong!

As with every religion a few members are not always good people and some have their own agendas but they do not speak for the majority.

Some of the comments already posted by REAL baptized witnesses says it all, only narrow minded, ignorant people would believe this article.

People are entitled to their opinion but before anyone takes this as fact, please, please, please do your research PROPERLY. I work for the media so i know how influential the press can be but not everything you read is true - but im sure we all know that!

As for Paul Vallely, Associate editor your reputation is well and truly tarnished - this is comical and i am ashamed to read such poor journalism from a well renowned publication like the Independent.
JW's
[info]sjkg wrote:
Sunday, 8 November 2009 at 03:26 am (UTC)
If it was an article about Catholics, Orthodox or any other religion people would really care. Its wouldnt be a big deal. But why is it that JW's are the ones that cop all of this grief. If you wanted to learn more about a religion, you would go to their church, maybe look into literature they print, look at their official website, etc. Yet when it comes to JW's most people will automatically assume the worse. They won't look at their literature, go the meetings, look at the offical website.
Jesus was killed because he was the son of God. He was different from everyone else and he said his followers would be different and ridiculed. To me, thats exactly what JW's are:different and constintly ridiculed. Doesnt that say something then? If people dont want to be a JW, then thats fine, but they cant say that they have never had the opportunity to learn about who JW's really are. People move and new people move into a house, circumstances change: which is why JW's continue to call. They also do different forms of preaching, whether its telephone, street, letter, business as not everyone is home so its just another avenue of trying to reach people.
If you are really against something you will twist things, even if its slightly, and really bring them down and make them look horrible. So if you want to learn about JW's i thinkn people should talk to them personally and go to the group to learn about them. And JW's arent the only ones who say there is hyposcrisy in churches. I have heard so many people say it before. As for the end coming in the 60's and 70's: someone started a rumour that effected JW's very much. But these ones who thought it was coming really should have payed attention to what the bible says, if thats what they believe. As it says that no one knows the hour or day the end is coming.

Most popular in Life & Style


Free gym pass

Get fit for summer with Fitness First gyms in London

Download a free gym pass from Fitness First today

Article Archive

Day In a Page

Sun | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat

Select date