`Black people call each other niggers, so why does it matter if white people say it?'

Lawrence Inquiry

Kim Sengupta
Tuesday 30 June 1998 00:02 BST
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THE FIVE young men suspected of the racist murder of Stephen Lawrence did not want to attend the inquiry to give evidence yesterday, and had done everything possible to avoid doing so. What emerged was a day of cross-examination - with a long interruption after a violent fracas - which was dramatic and often acrimonious, with both tension and tempers on edge.

Before giving evidence, the three who appeared yesterday - Jamie Acourt, 21, his brother Neil, 22, and 21-year-old David Norris - were told the rules of engagement. Although they would not be prosecuted for anything they said at the inquiry, they could face charges of perjury if they are found to have lied.

Jamie Acourt was the first in the witness box. When Michael Mansfield QC, for the Lawrence family, began questioning him he repeatedly denied suggestions that he was racist or carried knives, although he admitted he had been caught by police and prison officers with lock knives in his possession.

He also insisted he could not remember a police surveillance video of his brother Neil and the other suspects which showed them repeatedly using extreme racist language and graphically talking about violence.

Jamie Acourt, who did not appear in the video because he was in custody when it was made in 1994, said he had no comment to make about the behaviour and remarks made.

At one stage in the video David Norris talks about shooting black people, saying he would skin them and set them alight.

Mr Mansfield asked Jamie Acourt: "These are your views are they not?"

He replied: "No."

MM: "Is that an honest reply?"

JA: "That is an honest reply"

Mr Mansfield, asked him about a number of occasions on which he was arrested for carrying offensive weapons.

MM: "You like carrying weapons in public, don't you?"

JA: "No."

Mr Mansfield asked if on 2 October 1991, he was banned from Kidbrooke School in south-east London.

JA: "You tell me."

MM: "Have you forgotten that?"

JA: "Yes I have."

He eventually admitted he was expelled for possession of a monkey wrench.

Mr Mansfield asked him if on 23 October 1991, he had been cautioned by police for carrying an offensive weapon in a public place.

JA: "You tell me."

Mr Mansfield also asked him about an incident when he was arrested in Chislehurst high street, south-east London, on 30 May 1992, for carrying an offensive weapon. He admitted he had had a police-style truncheon. When asked where he got it, he said: "I can't remember."

He was then question by Ian McDonald QC, for Duwayne Brooks - who was with Stephen when he died.

Mr McDonald asked him if he had the same hairstyle now as in 1993, Acourt replied: "I don't know."

IM: "You can't even remember that?"

JA: "No, wasn't there a police photo when I was arrested?"

Neil Acourt began giving evidence after his brother and admitted carrying knives when he went to areas with large black communities. He said he had adopted the practice for "self protection" after being accused of Stephen's murder in 1993.

"I received loads and loads of life-threatening calls, so I thought to make sure I was safe, I would do that."

Asked by Edmund Lawson QC, counsel for the inquiry, where he took this knife, Neil Acourt replied: "If I was going to an area where there were more black people than whites, yes."

He was also asked about a sword in a scabbard found stuffed down the back of a sofa at the house he shared with his brother Jamie. He replied: "What is that?"

Mr Lawson responded to laughs from the public gallery: "A scabbard is the thing a sword goes into, other than a body."

Neil Acourt later admitted using the word "nigger", but denied he was a racist. "Black people call each other niggers, so why does it matter if white people say that?" he said.

He insisted that the extreme racist and violent language he used in a police surveillance video, had not been sincere, but prompted by the stress he had endured after being accused of Stephen's murder. "It is just boredom and anger. It is not as if I'm going to do it, is it," he said.

"I've been through a lot, and when you have been through a lot you say things you don't mean."

Asked about stun gun found by detectives at his home he said he never intended to use it and expected it was normal for teenage boys to collect such weapons. Mr Lawson said: "It is not the sort of item that appears in a catalogue of Toys R Us."

Neil Acourt also denied any recollection of his being expelled from the Samuel Montague Football Club for threatening a black opponent with a knife in 1991, describing the allegation as "a fairy story".

During questions from Mr Mansfield, Neil Acourt claimed he was being "persecuted" over the murder of Stephen Lawrence. "I have never done anything wrong," he said.

Mr Mansfield took him through the transcript of a police surveillance video which showed him making obscene racist comments.

MM: "That's a joke?"

NA: "Yes, everyone makes jokes about everyone."

MM: "That's the way you have been talking about blacks?"

NA: "Since we have been persecuted."

Later he admitted he suspected the flat where the video was filmed had been bugged by police.

MM: "Why should you think you are being bugged, if you have done nothing wrong?"

NA: "I have never done anything wrong and I'm here today, so that's a silly question."

The video shows him playing with knives, staging a mock knife attack on one of his friends and making numerous racist comments. He is heard referring to the politician Enoch Powell as "the greatest, you are the don of dons".

MM: "What's funny about that?"

NA: "It's not funny at all, is it, but when you're young at that age and you are angry and you are laughing and joking, you say things, you don't mean them."

And he accused Mr Mansfield of misrepresenting the video. "When you watch the video you can see laughing and joking going on, it's obvious you are going to portray it the other way. It's a joke."

He admitted going out "shivved up", meaning he carried a knife, but insisted it was for his own security.

The third man to appear, David Norris, said he was "very angry" about his treatment since the 1993 killing. Asked by Mr Lawson about racist comments he was seen making on the surveillance video, he said his behaviour was "very immature".

Having just denied ever having used racist abuse, sections of the transcript from the video were quoted to him and Mr Lawson asked him again: "Did you use racist abuse."

He replied: "Yes, I did, on the video I have, yes, because I was very angry at what's been happening to me over the last five years."

Under questioning from Mr Mansfield he admitted he was out when the police came to arrest him for Stephen's murder, although it was before 7am. Asked where he had gone, he said: "I can't remember, it's such a long time ago."

But he denied being tipped off by his father, Clifford, a well-known criminal now serving eight years for drugs and firearm offences.

The hearing continues today.

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