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Banned from Britain, Dutch campaigner against Islam

By Ben Russell and Vanessa Mock

Geert Wilders, who leads the small Dutch Freedom Party, was due to show his controversial 17-minute film at an event in the House of Lords tomorrow, but was informed that he would not be allowed to enter the country

EPA

Geert Wilders, who leads the small Dutch Freedom Party, was due to show his controversial 17-minute film at an event in the House of Lords tomorrow, but was informed that he would not be allowed to enter the country

A far-right Dutch MP whose film linking Islamic texts with the terror attacks on New York sparked protests around the Muslim world was last night banned from entering Britain.

Geert Wilders, who leads the small Dutch Freedom Party, was due to show his controversial 17-minute film at an event in the House of Lords tomorrow, but was informed yesterday by British officials that he would not be allowed to enter the country. The decision sparked an immediate diplomatic row after the Dutch Government pressed Britain to reverse the ban.

The film Fitna, which criticises the Koran as a "fascist book", sparked violent protests around the Muslim world last year. The film, which has been posted on the internet, juxtaposes images of the Koran with footage of the 9/11 twin tower attacks and other terrorist atrocities. Mr Wilders had been invited to show the film at an event in Westminster hosted by Lord Pearson of Rannoch, the former Conservative, who is now a UK Independence Party member of the House of Lords.

The film starts with an image of the hugely controversial cartoon of the Prophet Mohamed with a bomb as a turban that sparked global protests after it was printed in a Danish newspaper. The film then shows images of the 9/11 aircraft flying into the World Trade Centre, with quotes from calls to the emergency services from people inside the buildings.

It also contains images of bloodstained corpses following the 2004 Madrid rail bombings before showing gruesome images of beheadings and attacks. The film then shows statistics indicating a growing Muslim population in the Netherlands .

Last night, the Home Office refused to comment on Mr Wilders' case. But a spokesman said: "The Government opposes extremism in all forms. It will stop those who want to spread extremism, hatred and violent messages in our communities from coming to our country. That was the driving force behind tighter rules on exclusions for unacceptable behaviour that the Home Secretary announced in October last year."

Mr Wilders, who lives with round-the-clock security after receiving death threats, said a letter from the British embassy informed him he was being refused entry because his views "threaten community harmony and therefore public security" in the UK.

He condemned the British Government's decision as "cowardly".

"This is something you'd expect from Saudia Arabia, not Great Britain," Mr Wilders told a parliamentary session. But he signalled that he might make the journey to London on Thursday despite the ban.

"I am seriously considering just trying it out and just getting on the plane," he said. "Then I'll see what happens. Let them handcuff me," he was quoted as telling Dutch newspaper NRC.

The Dutch Foreign Minister Maxime Verhagen said his government would continue to press Britain to reverse the ban. He said he "deeply regretted" that a Dutch lawmaker had been barred entry to the UK.

Mr Verhagen said he had first contacted the British ambassador in The Hague. Having failed, Mr Verhagen then telephoned his British counterpart David Miliband. "It is highly regrettable that a Dutch parliamentarian is refused entry to another EU country," he said in a statement.

Mr Wilders, whose Freedom Party holds nine of the 120 seats in the Dutch Parliament, said he was shocked by the travel ban. He said: "We are talking here about a European Union country, one of the oldest democracies in the Western world."

Lord Pearson, who invited Wilders to show Fitna at the House of Lords, said he was "very surprised" at the news and was looking into what had happened to the Dutch MP.

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UK is sacrificing Western values to radical Islam
[info]pieterjelle wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 12:34 am (UTC)
By not allowing Mr. Wilders into the UK, your country underscores one of Wilders' more plausible fears: that the West are letting themselves be intimidated by radical Muslims who will resort to any means including violence once their God, their Holy Book and their beliefs are under attack. Of course, no such ban would apply to anyone making equally nasty statements concerning any other religion, the followers of those religions generally limiting their protests to the verbal form. One does not need to be a fan of Mr Wilders to realise that the process of undermining one of the pillars of Western democracy - the freedom of expression - is well underway, out of fear for Muslim violence. Instead of cherishing this freedom, this once sacred principle is being sacrificed to accommodate a religious group whose members are alien to the very concept of democracy, individual freedom and the non-violent exchange of opposing views. The UK is giving carte blanche to parts of the world where it is perfectly acceptable to silence critics, dissidents and heretics.
Re: UK is sacrificing Western values to radical Islam
[info]andre_t wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 06:27 am (UTC)
Now if a Mr (lets call him) Ahmed Ninjajehad would ru the same campaign, make the same statements only about Jews (for example), would he be allowed in to most European states, would the comments by the public be as we find here today? He would be threatend by the law.

Muslims, not Jews? - [info]greenman9876 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 07:25 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Muslims, not Jews? - [info]leodvinchi - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:58 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Muslims, not Jews? - [info]muk2 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 09:16 am (UTC) Expand
Re: UK is sacrificing Western values to radical Islam - [info]singingbird85 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 10:49 am (UTC) Expand
Re: UK is sacrificing Western values to radical Islam - [info]valigia1 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 11:03 am (UTC) Expand
Re: UK is sacrificing Western values to radical Islam - [info]ancientoneuk - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 12:34 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: UK is sacrificing Western values to radical Islam - [info]dostoyevsky01 - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 01:49 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]terry_walpole wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 01:19 am (UTC)
Pieterjelle is right. I am quite capable of knowing propaganda when I see it. Although anything this British government does to stifle free speech can hardly surprise any of us by now.

Violent muslims have Nu Labor on the run that's for sure. Contrast its speedy action against Wilders with Jack Straw's reluctance to condemn muslims demonstrating on the streets of London calling for the beheading of non muslims ie most of The Independent's readership.

Get on the plane Geert!
Fight to uphold our values.
[info]asonberg wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 02:03 am (UTC)
I totally agree with pieterjelle and terry walpole. We must not give in to the violent extremists and let them silence legitimate criticism of religion. Other religions and their followers endure intense and passionate criticism without resorting to violence and threats of violence. We must not let ourselves be blackmailed into losing our freedom of speech. This is exactly what the extremists want.

Its bad enough that we have had Guantanamo Bay and the continuing erosion of our civil liberties and a creeping surveillance state. We must learn that we cannot defeat the extremists by silencing legitimate debate and criticism nor can we defeat them by sinking to their level.
Re: Fight to uphold our values.
[info]fakhry wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 10:27 pm (UTC)
If the film is showing the truth you can say .. yeah we have values to uphold ..but when tell lies.. What kind of values are you upholding? The latest information about the twin towers destruction you can find it in the action that been taken towards the french professor who exposed the facts that zionist and usa are behind all this and the next day he was kicked out of the university.. This professor protected his values and been kicked out..
Re: Fight to be able to DEBATE and to protect free speech - [info]dostoyevsky01 - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 01:51 pm (UTC) Expand
Hypocrisy
[info]maceoin wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 02:20 am (UTC)
The UK government really has lost its marbles. We already have dangerous libel laws that have prevented serious academic writing about things like terrorist funding being published. We have allowed radical Muslim leaders like Shaykh Yusuf al-Qaradawi entry to this country. There is a regular lecture circuit of extremists who tour the UK and are never deported. But how dare a non-Muslim say anything critical about all this. I didn't particularly like Fitna, but I did like it a great deal better than all the fundamentalist preaching and filming that passes without a murmur. And the points Wilders make are not altogether lacking in validity. His Quranic quotations are all accurate. Free speech has been at risk here since the Rushdie affair, and the threats that were made then and which have been repeated over the cartoons and, more recently, the Jewel of Medina have frightened everyone from the government to the police and left us handing the right to free speech to Muslims and Muslims alone. Their hate speech is a hundred times more offensive than Fitna. Remember that hardline Muslims are calling for a jihad against us, whereas Fitna argues for our freedom from such threats.
Re: Hypocrisy
[info]forwardplanning wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:37 am (UTC)
Aye, Brown likes to write about courage, but like the rest of this cabal totally gutless and grovels before bullies (radical muslims) when it applies to him.

Grunt, slobber, slobber, grunt, grunt
What Crap
[info]religion_hater wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 03:33 am (UTC)
What is it .. the UK Govt and people are now arse kissing Muslims??

FFS .. BAN all bloody religions and stop this crap!
Re: What Crap
[info]forwardplanning wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:39 am (UTC)
The bias and discrimination is blatant, but then courage and subtlety have never been principles they recognized
Re: What Crap - [info]catstrangler101 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 12:22 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: What Crap - [info]forwardplanning - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 01:37 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: What Crap - [info]catstrangler101 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 06:56 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: What Crap - [info]forwardplanning - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 07:59 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: What Crap - [info]andre_t - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 12:58 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: What Crap - [info]1984prole - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 03:15 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: What Crap - [info]religion_hater - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 09:22 pm (UTC) Expand
Such madness
[info]free_thinker88 wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 04:17 am (UTC)
I agree with the previous posts. This government had lost its marbles. It permits everyone else to enter this country including wanted terrorists and those who preach hatred and for the deaths of ordinary Britons. The government has allowed Islamist groups, which are banned in most other countries, to set up shop and continue their terror campaigns. Heck, we can't even deport foreign murderers! Yet one man who dares to speak out is denied entry. We need to demand why this government favours those who seek to destroy us and our way of life.
[info]doctipu wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 04:25 am (UTC)
lets put it like this, when the freedom of one becomes a threat to another, is it justified to speak up?? to highlight issues that are highly confrontational? what i ask is, this man is trying to establish something here, that perhaps all Muslims are terrorists, and their holy book is teaching them so..........
it is indeed a deep insult to people of another religion and indeed will spark outrage..........
lets not forget that humanity demands respect, as they say, give respect and have respect, so do the muslims say, live and let live, if such religious discrimination is propagated by a Dutch MP, then for sure the Dutch govt needs to rethink of what calibre of people it has in its parliament!!!!!!!!!!
long live humanity, boo to hatred preachers
[info]jarpie_nl wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 09:15 am (UTC)
if such religious discrimination is propagated by a Dutch MP, then for sure the Dutch govt needs to rethink of what calibre of people it has in its parliament!!!!!!!!!!

I think you will find it's up to the Dutch people not the goverment ..... we vote for our MP's unlike some countries !
Respect - [info]catstrangler101 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 12:34 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]bbc4israel - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 12:40 pm (UTC) Expand
Dutch campaigner
[info]nwshannon wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 04:28 am (UTC)
It is simply staggering that our government can be so shamelessly two-faced. They allow radical Muslims into the country to spread their message of hate. They are loathe to take action against British citizens who follow the same creed. Does this government not realise that Islamists who promote their religion through acts of terror and violence are clearly driven to do so by the teachings laid down in the Koran and in their traditions? History is replete with examples of Islamic aggression. The lands which were once peaceably evangelised by the early Christians fell to Islam, not by peaceful means but by the sword. It is naive to think that bending over backwards to placate Muslims by taking action such as banning this man from Britain will make the slightest difference. True Islam is contemptuous of democratic societies, and Britain needs to wake up to this before it is too late.
This is not to say that there are not moderate Muslims, but they are not being true to classical Islam, nor will they succeed in the face of the militants, which are now well esconced in the majority of western democracies.
Wake up Britain and make every effort to hold fast to our Judeo-Chritian heritage upon which our societies laws are founded. We need look only to places such as Saudia Arabia, Iran, Pakistan etc to see what is in store if we allow any foothold at all to those who would replace our democracy with Sharia Law or any component of it.
Re: Dutch campaigner
[info]valigia1 wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 11:17 am (UTC)
The countries you have mentioned would be perfectly suited for you. You are a hater and a racist. Britain does not need people like you. This country is a multi-cultural society based on principles of tolerance and acceptance...if you can't stand by these values, you should emigrate to Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan. Freedom cannot be understood as freedom to hate, you are slipping in the same crimes that you are denouncing the Muslims of. Get lost!
Re: Dutch campaigner - [info]joolzg - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 11:37 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Dutch campaigner - [info]catstrangler101 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 12:39 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Dutch campaigner - [info]nevric - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 01:39 am (UTC) Expand
think again...............
[info]doctipu wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 04:39 am (UTC)
with all due respect, just think what this man was trying to bring to our soil, hatred.............and the ground reality is, the more these silly people do such things, the more normal law abiding citizens feel fearful, the more they feel they are under threat, currently the global situation is, where the west thinks it is under threat from islam, muslims have an equal fear.......now with great numbers of humans on both sides and diplomatic ties, interdependence and above all, a general human awareness that differentiates us from the past humans, the way forward is through respect for faiths and not through spreading hatred, this man should be condemned and lets not forget its already been recommended he be tried for hatred and discrimination by a Dutch court itself..............
Re: think again...............
[info]mstamper wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 11:09 am (UTC)
Tried for "hatred"? Hatred is a crime now? People are to be imprisoned or executed because you don't like their emotions? I suppose thought crime is next. Perhaps bad thoughts can be punished as well.
Re: think again............... - [info]catstrangler101 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 07:03 pm (UTC) Expand
Say it ain't so!
[info]jlee3793 wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 05:06 am (UTC)
Is the UK really banning a Dutch parliamentarian from showing his film at an event in the House of Lords? Was he planning to bring bombs or WMD or biological agents or a loaded .45 into the country? Or was he inciting his obviously crazed fellow travelers to commit murder, mayhem or masturbation? Perhaps he doesn't have a valid passport? Or he was late in renewing his driving license? Or he has masterminded the takeover of MI6 and this is the only possible response? And then Wilders politely and conservatively comments that the UK is "cowardly." Well news indeed, but the UK is a lot more than that. It is clearly showing itself as a police state. I wonder if the dear Lords will earn their keep and do something about it. We certainly can't expect Brown & Co to do anything. But some of us are getting restless. You can trace our IP's and watch us on CCTV, but the time is coming...
Dutch Minister Banned
[info]jrjohnyboy wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 05:27 am (UTC)
fhis is Britain today
Mustn,t upset muslims
let them dictate who says what , or who visits our country
Religion, as Christopher Hitchens says "poisons everything"
How right he is
Re: Dutch Minister Banned
[info]catstrangler101 wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 12:40 pm (UTC)
The problem is not with all religions. It is with one particular political ideology (Islam) that is masquerading as a religion, and hiding behind its religious component to propagate hatred of non-Muslims.

If you cannot clearly define the problem, you have no hope of solving it. Redefining Islam as a political ideology would allow us to form a coherent strategy for combating the threat that it poses to our society in particular and to Western civilization in general.
Re: Dutch Minister Banned - [info]1984prole - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 03:08 pm (UTC) Expand
keeping the peace
[info]nav_amanat wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 05:27 am (UTC)
lets face it, the uk government is probably the best government in the world today, it may have a few minor flaws- but which government doesn't.
his movie may have a theme (hate for islam) but does it really have a point?
it wont only offend non-radical muslims but will also cause riots and casualties to innocents.

although im personally agnostic i can say that no major RELIGION actually preaches hatered but PEOPLE do (evident by this article)

In Britain, we have education that allows our public to form their own oppinions of current affairs. we dont need stupid manipulative prejudice propaganda.
Re: keeping the peace
[info]ourmaninferney wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:40 am (UTC)
If it does "cause riots and casualties to innocents", then Wilders' point will have been validated, won't it.
Re: keeping the peace - [info]nav_amanat - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 12:44 am (UTC) Expand
Re: keeping the peace - [info]mstamper - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 11:11 am (UTC) Expand
Re: keeping the peace - [info]mike_spain - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 01:30 pm (UTC) Expand
UK grants asylum to Taliban, but Wilders is the "Extremist"
[info]what_the_fuuk wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 05:51 am (UTC)
1994 - Abu Quatada, aka "Bin Laden's abassador to Europe", was granted asylum in 1994 in the UK.

2002 - Wali Khan Ahmadzai, a Taliban fighter, was granted asylum by the Home Office.

Today - Geert Wilders speaks out against such policies and is banned from Britain!?!?!?
Wrong, hypocritical, spineless appeasement
[info]tatarkiewicz wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 05:56 am (UTC)
J.S. Mill say we should have freedom of speech so long as we do not advocate violence against others. Wilders does not advocate violence against Muslims in the film so he should not be banned from Britain.
Are Wilders claims that the Koran advocates violence against non-Muslims true? Yes, they are. Does the Koran contain anti-semitic pasages? Yes, it does. Did Mohammed order armed robbery and violent expansionist military attacks to create a huge military empire? Yes, he did. Did early Islam attack Persia and many Arab countries and take them over by force? Yes, it did. Is the Koran a pacifist document? No it isn't. Was Mohammed a pacifist? No, he was not.
Do many Muslims, incredibly, still regard the Koran as being literally the word of God? Yes, they do and this motivates and, in their eyes, validates Islamic terrorism and the goal of creating a world-wide fascist, sectarian, anti-semitic system of government that would be terrible for everyone.
The land of Milton, Mill and Churchill has disgraced itself!
Re: Wrong, hypocritical, spineless appeasement
[info]doctipu wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 06:35 am (UTC)
well mate, have to applaud your sheer ignorance and lack of basic knowledge, but being born and raised as a Muslim, id just say Islam is not a fanatic religion,, it is true alot of islamic conquests did happen through war, and alot through simple dialogue.
The world hasnt yet forgotten crucades, probably you might have yourself, which were a mere use of force themselves, in the name o religion.................besides, if you speak so much for the freeodm of speech and expression, then ill ask one thing, although i dont practice religion and respect all humanity, if yet i stand in public and start speaking against Holocaust, would it be acceptable?? if the answer is no, then i dont need to converse further
Re: Wrong, hypocritical, spineless appeasement - [info]forwardplanning - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:45 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong, hypocritical, spineless appeasement - [info]00simian - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 09:55 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong, hypocritical, spineless appeasement - [info]mstamper - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 11:13 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong, hypocritical, spineless appeasement - [info]catstrangler101 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 12:49 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wrong, hypocritical, spineless appeasement - [info]00simian - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 09:45 am (UTC) Expand
[info]drug_baron wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 05:57 am (UTC)
Geert Wilders is just a thug who thrives on ignorance; he is no different to a crackhead Mullah; they are both cut from the same cloth.
[info]forwardplanning wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 10:51 am (UTC)
Then both should be banned!

However, the muslims should also accept the culture of the land they chose to come to and it wouldn't do any harm if some of them gained a sense of humour too!!

Point of reference:
Hindus
Sikhs
Jews
Buddhism
Church of England
Roman Catholicism etc

Yet muslims are the only ones doing the 'rant' for universal acceptance and 'respect' of the masses, are they not?

It is not and never will be a one way street just for muslims and until they stop their threats and demands for special treatment, they alone are culpable for the views people have of them. They will never achieve the 'respect' they crave.
It's not all religions - [info]catstrangler101 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 12:52 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: It's not all religions - [info]forwardplanning - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 01:44 pm (UTC) Expand
UK Goverment
[info]adam2009 wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 06:32 am (UTC)
Well done Home Office, my respects! i dinnt expect this to happen, its time to stop racism and anti islamism. We have to fight against terorism but not to make it worse! By showing this film mr. Dutchman is making current situation even worse.
Re: UK Goverment
[info]forwardplanning wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 09:01 am (UTC)
By denying this, they are denying free speech. The same sort of stuff they allow on banners, saying things like 'death to the infidels'
Re: UK Goverment - [info]danzalez7 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 11:10 am (UTC) Expand
Re: UK Goverment - [info]catstrangler101 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 12:58 pm (UTC) Expand
Why was he invited?
[info]gondorplace wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 06:51 am (UTC)
He is what he is, a hatemonger of the 21st century, and every time has one; but why was he invited to present a low-budget, low-minded and low IQ movie in the prestigious House of Lords, when anyone can see it on the internet (if interested at all)?

Perhaps looking at some UK's high profile politicians' agenda would be desirable.
Re: Why was he invited?
[info]catstrangler101 wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 01:02 pm (UTC)
Why do you consider Geert Wilders to be a hatemonger for exposing the hatred that the Koran teaches to impressionable Muslims, who then go on to commit acts of violence against non-Muslims?

Why is it that nobody ever denounces the Imams who preach hatred and violence in the name of Islam?

What we need now in this country is an honest and rational public discussion of Islam and the effect it is having on our society in particular and Western civilization in general. It is not good enough anymore to say, as many Muslims and their dhimmi apologists do - "Islam is a religion of peace, now go back to sleep."

This discussion should naturally include critical analysis of the texts and tenets of Islam, and of the life of the Islamic prophet Mohammed, which would lead us to the understanding of where Muslims get the idea that non-Muslims are somehow inferior to Muslims, and are to be converted, subjugated or killed whenever Muslims feel that they are strong enough to do so.
Opposses extremism
[info]theklf99 wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 06:53 am (UTC)
"The Government opposes extremism in all forms. It will stop those who want to spread extremism, hatred and violent messages in our communities from coming to our country."

So if the government want to stop these extremist people why then did they let Abu Hamza get away with it, along with other Radical Clerics that stand on street corners in the UK preaching extremist messages.

Also why did London Transport allow the Atheist society to preach on the side of their buses that their probably is no God.

It seems in the UK it's one rule for all religions, except Christianity. The minute Christianity tries anything that any other religion can get away with it's hit in the face with all sorts of laws.

It seems that the government in the UK is the one inciting extremism, not all these other religions.
Re: Opposses extremism
[info]ourmaninferney wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:46 am (UTC)
If you lump Abu Hamza's preachings of violent jihad in the same league as the atheist bus adverts, then you have a serious problem of comprehension: one is a call for extreme violence, the other is a call to think. Bit of a difference, no?
Re: Opposses extremism - [info]sara_sense - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 12:01 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Opposses extremism - [info]usemyhead - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 01:34 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Opposses extremism - [info]dg14_shibby - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 12:51 pm (UTC) Expand
The Government is on the terrorists' side
[info]girigirihanasu wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 07:02 am (UTC)
The government is perfectly happy to protect and accommodate Islamic fascists who preach the overthrow of the UK and subjugation of non-Muslims, and who support bloodthirsty terrorism; yet they ban a politician who wishes to challenge these people. It seems the government is well and truly on the Islamic terrorists' side. And don't forget, Fitna merely quotes the Koran. Apparently that's now a hate-crime. Britain will be an Islamic state within 30 years.
Runs both ways
[info]richardjeff wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 07:09 am (UTC)
Geert Wilders views are certainly not shared by me but ,in linking texts to terrorism, of course it is possible, in the same way as Biblical texts can be used to support the Inquisition, Holy War, burning of Witches and many other atrocities. None of the Religions of the Book(s) are exempt from having texts selected to justify almost any atrocity as a holy script. Islam is not alone, just the one to have a section of "followers" most publicly acting on it at this point in history, though you will find "fundamentalist" Christians and Jews lurking in the corners.

This is not anti-religion but just to point out that Islam is not alone in this potential.

Should he be banned. Yes, but only if we take the same attitude to those who point out the problems in many religious texts. That means I should be banned based on this posting. His mistake, in this matter, is to say it is Islam alone and to claim that it taints the whole of Islam. Free speech is always a problem. "I don't ike what he says but I defend his right to say them" is an easy concept but hard to put into practice with fueling the fires of hate and prejuduce.

Most religions can interpret themselves in peaceful and reasonable ways, though at heart I feel that the whole religious instinct is flawed and dysfunctional.
Re: Runs both ways
[info]mstamper wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 11:16 am (UTC)
I would be interested in knowing specifically which of Wilder's views you do not share.
Re: Runs both ways - [info]richardjeff - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 12:43 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Runs both ways - [info]catstrangler101 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 01:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Runs both ways - [info]richardjeff - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 01:31 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Runs both ways - [info]catstrangler101 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 07:18 pm (UTC) Expand
Mr Wilders / Enoch Powell
[info]stupidthis wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 07:11 am (UTC)
Governments can censure, ban and do all in their attempt to manage what people think. Britain has avoided the terrors of history ( a la the French, Russian etc) by allowing freedom of debate. By attempting to put a lid on the issue of Islam pent up pressure is built up and revolt will occur. Let the man speak. After all extremist Moslems presently have that privilige.
Number of seats in parliament
[info]pmlegene wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 07:45 am (UTC)
The Dutch parliament (called "Tweede Kamer") has not 120 but 150 seats.
Leave 'em alone
[info]helen_greer wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:01 am (UTC)
Come on boys (and girls) why don't we just let Muslims get on with promoting respect for Mohamed. After all he must have been a good man...... His wish to marry Aisha when she was 6 years old speaks volumes for him. Of course he did the right thing and married her when she was 9 years old and kindly allowed her to bring her toys into the bedroom with her. Oh, she had a lovely child of the great man when she was 13. Not bad for a man in his mid-fifties!!!

If banning books and films was fashionable, the Koran would probably have joined the list for destruction and we would never have read the above detail.
Re: Leave 'em alone
[info]forwardplanning wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:58 am (UTC)
".....promoting respect for Mohamed"

Sure. When they respect the rights of other religions and stop getting on the streets of England screaming 'Death to the Infidels'. The damage done to their religion was of their own making.

Negotiation is a two way street and meeting in the middle. Not one party saying you must agree with me or I will kill you

While this continues, you can make me fear it, but never respect it,
Re: Leave 'em alone - [info]drug_baron - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 11:12 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Leave 'em alone - [info]catstrangler101 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 01:12 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]ealonder wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:01 am (UTC)
doctipu wrote: "the worl hasnt yet forgotten crucades" which I presume meant to read The world has not yet forgotten the Crusades .
Actually matey we have all forgotten the Crusades , except it would seem for Muslims and followers of Islam. The Koran , and indeed Islam teaches that Westerners are the same violent crusading warriors that peerppetrated the war crimes known as the Crusades. Which of course is just ignorant repetition of history to manipulate believers,something Islam is very good at.
If you wish to beleive that The World which I presume you mean everyone except muslims , is hanging on to the crusades , a bloody terrible conquest of the innocent , where you lot learnt what violence is by the way , then you're as indoctrinated and brainwashes as most of Islam.Proving that the leaders of your religion are getting exactly the results the want , followers who don't know why the beleive what they do , or what they are promoting.
free country?
[info]mind_ful wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:03 am (UTC)
One doesn't have to be far-right to link islam with the bomb attacks. the bombers themselves did it. I don't get this decision at all. this is a free county - isn't it? The radical islamists who inspired the bombers are allowed here, so why not this chap?
Re: free country?
[info]sameerp2 wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 10:59 am (UTC)
Allowing Terrorists into the country, whatever religion they have hijacked is a mistake. We cant use previous mistakes as a defense for making a new one.
Its only fair to interpret a text within the context it was written. Thousands of scholars study the Koran for years, while this gentlemen feels its ok to take the text out of context and frame it alongside acts of terror. This is exactly the same as what islamic terrorists do in their recruitment propoganda videos.
Surely we should be against extremism of all forms when it is designed to provoke conflict.
This mans far right propoganda is not factual, and is clearly designed to provoke. It would be akin to allowing the BNP, or worse osama bin laden to show a film in the House of Lords.
Re: free country? - [info]catstrangler101 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 01:24 pm (UTC) Expand
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