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Exclusive: How MI5 blackmails British Muslims

'Work for us or we will say you are a terrorist'

By Robert Verkaik, Law Editor

Mohamed Aden, 25, who was approached by a fake postman

TERI PENGILLEY

Mohamed Aden, 25, who was approached by a fake postman

Five Muslim community workers have accused MI5 of waging a campaign of blackmail and harassment in an attempt to recruit them as informants.

The men claim they were given a choice of working for the Security Service or face detention and harassment in the UK and overseas.

They have made official complaints to the police, to the body which oversees the work of the Security Service and to their local MP Frank Dobson. Now they have decided to speak publicly about their experiences in the hope that publicity will stop similar tactics being used in the future.

Intelligence gathered by informers is crucial to stopping further terror outrages, but the men's allegations raise concerns about the coercion of young Muslim men by the Security Service and the damage this does to the gathering of information in the future.

Three of the men say they were detained at foreign airports on the orders of MI5 after leaving Britain on family holidays last year.

After they were sent back to the UK, they were interviewed by MI5 officers who, they say, falsely accused them of links to Islamic extremism. On each occasion the agents said they would lift the travel restrictions and threat of detention in return for their co-operation. When the men refused some of them received what they say were intimidating phone calls and threats.

Two other Muslim men say they were approached by MI5 at their homes after police officers posed as postmen. Each of the five men, aged between 19 and 25, was warned that if he did not help the security services he would be considered a terror suspect. A sixth man was held by MI5 for three hours after returning from his honeymoon in Saudi Arabia. He too claims he was threatened with travel restrictions if he tried to leave the UK.

An agent who gave her name as Katherine is alleged to have made direct threats to Adydarus Elmi, a 25-year-old cinema worker from north London. In one telephone call she rang him at 7am to congratulate him on the birth of his baby girl. His wife was still seven months' pregnant and the couple had expressly told the hospital that they did not want to know the sex of their child.

Mr Elmi further alleges: "Katherine tried to threaten me by saying, and it still runs through my mind now: 'Remember, this won't be the last time we ever meet.' And then during our last conversation she explained: 'If you do not want anything to happen to your family you will co-operate.'"

Madhi Hashi, a 19-year-old care worker from Camden, claims he was held for 16 hours in a cell in Djibouti airport on the orders of MI5. He alleges that when he was returned to the UK on 9 April this year he was met by an MI5 agent who told him his terror suspect status would remain until he agreed to work for the Security Service. He alleges that he was to be given the job of informing on his friends by encouraging them to talk about jihad.

Mohamed Nur, 25, a community youth worker from north London, claims he was threatened by the Security Service after an agent gained access to his home accompanied by a police officer posing as a postman.

"The MI5 agent said, 'Mohamed if you do not work for us we will tell any foreign country you try to travel to that you are a suspected terrorist.'"

Mohamed Aden, 25, a community youth worker from Camden, was also approached by someone disguised as a postman in August last year. He alleges an agent told him: "We're going to make your travelling harder for you if you don't co-operate."

None of the six men, who work with disadvantaged youths at the Kentish Town Community Organisation (KTCO), has ever been arrested for terrorism or a terrorism-related offence.

They have repeatedly complained about their treatment to the police and to the Investigatory Powers Tribunal, which oversees the work of the Security Services.

In a letter to Lord Justice Mummery, who heads the tribunal, Sharhabeel Lone, the chairman of the KTCO, said: "The only thing these young people have in common is that they studied Arabic abroad and are of Somali origin. They are not involved in any terrorist activity whatsoever, nor have they ever been, and the security services are well aware of this."

Mr Sharhabeel added: "These incidents smack of racism, Islamophobia and all that undermines social cohesion. Threatening British citizens, harassing them in their own country, alienating young people who have committed no crime other than practising a particular faith and being a different colour is a recipe for disaster.

"These disgraceful incidents have undermined 10 years of hard work and severely impacted social cohesion in Camden. Targeting young people that are role models for all young people in our country in such a disparaging way demonstrates a total lack of understanding of on-the-ground reality and can only be counter-productive.

"When people are terrorised by the very same body that is meant to protect them, sowing fear, suspicion and division, we are on a slippery slope to an Orwellian society."

Frank Dobson said: "To identify real suspects from the Muslim communities MI5 must use informers. But it seems that from what I have seen some of their methods may be counter-productive."

Last night MI5 and the police refused to discuss the men's complaints with The Independent. But on its website, MI5 says it is untrue that the Security Service harasses Muslims.

The organisation says: "We do not investigate any individuals on the grounds of ethnicity or religious beliefs. Countering the threat from international terrorists, including those who claim to be acting for Islam, is the Security Service's highest priority.

"We know that attacks are being considered and planned for the UK by al-Qai'da and associated networks. International terrorists in this country threaten us directly through violence and indirectly through supporting violence overseas."

It adds: "Muslims are often themselves the victims of this violence – the series of terrorist attacks in Casablanca in May 2003 and Riyadh in May and November 2003 illustrate this.

"The service also employs staff of all religions, including Muslims. We are committed to recruiting a diverse range of staff from all backgrounds so that we can benefit from their different perspectives and experience."

MI5 and me: Three statements

Mahdi Hashi: 'I told him: this is blackmail'

Last month, 19-year-old Mahdi Hashi arrived at Gatwick airport to take a plane to visit his sick grandmother in Djibouti, but as he was checking in he was stopped by two plainclothes officers. One of the officers identified himself as Richard and said he was working for MI5.

Mr Hashi said: "He warned me not to get on the flight. He said 'Whatever happens to you outside the UK is not our responsibility'. I was absolutely shocked." The agent handed Mr Hashi a piece of paper with his name and telephone contact details and asked him to call him.

"The whole time he tried to make it seem like he was looking after me. And just before I left them at my boarding gate I remember 'Richard' telling me 'It's your choice, mate, to get on that flight but I advise you not to,' and then he winked at me."

When Mr Hashi arrived at Djibouti airport he was stopped at passport control. He was then held in a room for 16 hours before being deported back to the UK. He claims the Somali security officers told him that their orders came from London. More than 24 hours after he first left the UK he arrived back at Heathrow and was detained again.

"I was taken to pick up my luggage and then into a very discreet room. 'Richard' walked in with a Costa bag with food which he said was for me, my breakfast. He said it was them who sent me back because I was a terror suspect." Mr Hashi, a volunteer youth leader at Kentish Town Community Organisation in north London, alleges that the officer made it clear that his "suspect" status and travel restrictions would only be lifted if he agreed to co-operate with MI5. "I told him 'This is blatant blackmail'; he said 'No, it's just proving your innocence. By co-operating with us we know you're not guilty.'

"He said I could go and that he'd like to meet me another time, preferably after [May] Monday Bank Holiday. I looked at him and said 'I don't ever want to see you or hear from you again. You've ruined my holiday, upset my family, and you nearly gave my sick grandmother in Somalia a heart attack'."

Adydarus Elmi: 'MI5 agent threatened my family'

When the 23-year-old cinema worker from north London arrived at Chicago's O'Hare airport with his pregnant wife, they were separated, questioned and deported back to Britain.

Three days later Mr Elmi was contacted on his mobile phone and asked to attend Charing Cross police station to discuss problems he was having with his travel documents. "I met a man and a woman," he said. "She said her name was Katherine and that she worked for MI5. I didn't know what MI5 was."

For two-and-a-half hours Mr Elmi faced questions. "I felt I was being lured into working for MI5." The contact did not stop there. Over the following weeks he claims "Katherine" harassed him with dozens of phone calls.

"She would regularly call my mother's home asking to speak to me," he said. "And she would constantly call my mobile."

In one disturbing call the agent telephoned his home at 7am to congratulate him on the birth of his baby girl. His wife was still seven months pregnant and the couple had expressly told the hospital that they did not want to know the sex of their child.

"Katherine tried to threaten me by saying – and it still runs through my mind now – 'Remember, this won't be the last time we ever meet", and then during our last conversation explained: 'If you do not want anything to happen to your family you will co-operate'."

Mohamed Nur

Mohamed Nur, 25, first came into contact with MI5 early one morning in August 2008 when his doorbell rang. Looking through his spyhole in Camden, north London, he saw a man with a red bag who said he was a postman.

When Mr Nur opened the door the man told him that he was in fact a policeman and that he and his colleague wanted to talk to him. When they sat down the second man produced ID and said that he worked for MI5.

The agent told Mr Nur that they suspected him of being an Islamic extremist. "I immediately said 'And where did you get such an idea?' He replied, 'I am not permitted to discuss our sources'. I said that I have never done anything extreme."

Mr Nur claims he was then threatened by the officer. "The MI5 agent said, 'Mohamed, if you do not work for us we will tell any foreign country you try to travel to that you are a suspected terrorist'."

They asked him what travel plans he had. Mr Nur said he might visit Sweden next year for a football tournament. The agent told him he would contact him within the next three days.

"I am not interested in meeting you ever." Mr Nur replied. As they left, the agent said to at least consider the approach, as it was in his best interests.

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Jack Night says...
[info]ron_broxted wrote:
Wednesday, 20 May 2009 at 11:54 pm (UTC)
Tomlinson and de Menezes were not murdered. These men weren't blackmailed. It is a free country and not a de facto police state.
Bring it on; bring in Shariah Law !
[info]drug_baron wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 05:31 am (UTC)
Why does Britain fear Islamic law ?

If only there was a medieval Shariah Law in place; those thieving MPs and their medieval gentlemens club would have had their members being led to the gallows through a baying crowd throwing fruit and vegetables at them whilst they waited their turn for the noose.
Re: Bring it on; bring in Shariah Law ! - [info]copycat7 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:14 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Bring it on; bring in Shariah Law ! - [info]dogsolitude_v2 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:02 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Jack Night says... - [info]copycat7 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 09:52 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Jack Night says... - [info]ron_broxted - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 10:55 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Jack Night says... - [info]gacman - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 04:46 pm (UTC) Expand
Disgusting
[info]sameth99200 wrote:
Wednesday, 20 May 2009 at 11:57 pm (UTC)
Totally disgraceful... I thought blackmail was the Police's job!
Re: Disgusting
[info]copycat7 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:21 am (UTC)
lol
Re: Disgusting - [info]nickiuk - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:21 am (UTC) Expand
through the looking glass
[info]britfree wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 12:00 am (UTC)
the state has a hidden legion of secret police , william burroughs called them THE SOFT POLICE , although it is fair to say they have undergone a massive expansion since his day .they are the minions of the state , seeded throughout every institution that has the right to snoop or invade an autonomous persons rights , ideologically statist , they love to , need to , be valued by the state that has given them validation . ask them to spy on their own granny , by simply using the the correct buzz words , and they will tell you when she turns over in bed . the terrorist threat is convenient , justifiably angry bearded young boys , led by the noses, by , who knows ? does anybody believe that they are capable of distinguishing between agent provocateurs and "genuine" jihadi godfathers ? the british state is the last word in cynicism , if they tell you black , think white , but consider carefuly ,why , they want you to think black .
Re: through the looking glass
[info]david_stanley wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 04:49 pm (UTC)
Quite so and my life helps evidence the point having been told at an airport I was on the terrorist list. The term 'intelligence agency' is doublethink in itself, telling the truth in britain can be very unpopular.
Re: through the looking glass - [info]dogsolitude_v2 - Saturday, 23 May 2009 at 12:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Unintelligent Recruitment
[info]walaalo wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 12:42 am (UTC)
I can also attest to this recruitment business. While I was not harassed, a suited intelligence officer at Gatwick asked me if I could work with them. I indicated to him I was too busy to for their recruitment drive, and that was the end of it. After reading this article, what stands out for me is that there is clear campaign to recruit from the Somali community (and perhaps other Muslim communities as well), which is fine. What I find question begging is why does this recruitment drive have to take place at the boarding gates of an airport? And secondly, why does there have to be coercion and blackmail involved? I thought British intelligence was more sophisticated than that. This is a shame; it puts our intelligence service at the same level as Mugabe?s spooks! These recruitment practices clearly warrant an inquiry.
A De Facto Police state
[info]abuqudama wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 01:40 am (UTC)
I am a 20 year old Devout Muslim Male and a British citizen, and I fear being blackmailed or arrested on bogus charges can happen to me at any time based on my appearance, should I really have to change the way I look just to avoid getting arrested or even shot?

Britain, our freedom has been taken away under our noses, by those very people who champion freedom themselves! Let those who complain of human right abuses in Iran and N.Korea look at the British government too!

Let none of us complain afterwards that no one did anything to stop it.
We know who's really to blame
[info]nos235 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 02:48 am (UTC)
Britain is secretly controlled by communist Jews - well it's no so secret really.
Re: We know who's really to blame
[info]rhodri wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:03 am (UTC)
You forgot the shape-shifting lizards.
Re: We know who's really to blame - [info]copycat7 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:31 am (UTC) Expand
Re: We know who's really to blame - [info]rhodri - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:04 am (UTC) Expand
Re: We know who's really to blame - [info]dogsolitude_v2 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:49 am (UTC) Expand
Re: We know who's really to blame - [info]nutleyboy - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 10:54 am (UTC) Expand
Re: We know who's really to blame - [info]alanski - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 05:52 pm (UTC) Expand
Somali Muslims in UK
[info]gwilliamm wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 03:39 am (UTC)
If they do not like it they can always return to Somalia, I object most strongly to these people using the resources of the country either the shut up or ship out it is as easy as that.
Re: Somali Muslims in UK
[info]jayoosi wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 06:38 am (UTC)
Simple words for a pea minded pr*ck. You are an idiot, a racist and a bigot. Even easier, why don't you shut up or ship out for a change?
Re: Somali Muslims in UK - [info]cm999 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:00 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Somali Muslims in UK - [info]jayoosi - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:27 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Somali Muslims in UK - [info]rickraider - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 09:00 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Somali Muslims in UK - [info]mike4626 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:49 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Somali Muslims in UK - [info]jayoosi - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 09:08 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Somali Muslims in UK - [info]copycat7 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:20 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Somali Muslims in UK - [info]ebbi581 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:40 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Somali Muslims in UK - [info]rickraider - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 09:08 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Somali Muslims in UK - [info]tkirk - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 02:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Somali Muslims in UK - [info]rickraider - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 05:03 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Somali Muslims in UK - [info]jayoosi - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 09:25 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Somali Muslims in UK - [info]ebbi581 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 05:50 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Somali Muslims in UK - [info]philualshatir - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:22 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Somali Muslims in UK - [info]sophia_is - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 09:55 pm (UTC) Expand
How on earth did these people get into the UK in the first place?
[info]jaded63 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 03:59 am (UTC)
I cannot understand how these terror suspects were ever allowed into the UK in the first place. Are we just supposed to allow the entire world to flood into the UK? Given the terrible threat this country faces from Muslims, there should be a blanket ban on them in any case. There are tens, if not hundreds of thousands of jihadi-minded Muslims in the UK, and this absolutely disastrous situation has been brought about by the criminally lax immigration policies pursued by successive UK governments.

We are in a war, and will be temporarily jolted out of our complacency when the enemy within commits its next atrocity in the UK, which is only a matter of time. Personally, I could not care less about the tactics of MI5, as long as there is no physical abuse of terror suspects.
Re: How on earth did these people get into the UK in the first place?
[info]trojan_horace wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 04:41 am (UTC)
What is your final solution to "The Muslim Problem"? Special trains perhaps? There is no "them" and "us" - there's just us and more of us
MI5
[info]fox2step wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 06:27 am (UTC)
Kinda smacks of Gestapo & KGB tactics.
Honeymoon
[info]michaelji wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 06:29 am (UTC)
"A sixth man was held by MI5 for three hours after returning from his honeymoon in Saudi Arabia."


PAAAAAAAAAAAARTY!

A "honeymoon" in Saudi Arabia? how does that work?

He said, she said. Yet more unfounded allegations.
It'll take a lot of work to rebuild this once great nation.
[info]black33monk wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 06:32 am (UTC)
Democracy has failed in the Land of Hope and Glory!!
Roman Catholic religious orders al-Qaeda and the Pakistani Taleban.
[info]famulla wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 06:33 am (UTC)
Irish State 'colluded with religious authorities to hide child abuse', report says
The full horror of children?s lives destroyed by sexual, physical and emotional abuse meted out by Roman Catholic religious orders over decades in Ireland was revealed yesterday in an official five-volume report.
Might be better if you were sober before entering a discussion about the tragic rape and torture of children
Read the above then read the below. You will have the division in the Ministry that issues the passports.
Sham colleges open doors to Pakistani terror suspects
Thousands of young Pakistanis exploited a hole in Britain?s immigration defences to enrol as students at a network of sham colleges, The Times can reveal.
The gateway, opened by fraudsters who have earned millions from the scam, has allowed in hundreds of men from a region of Pakistan that is the militant heartland of al-Qaeda and the Pakistani Taleban.
I thank you
Firozali A.Mulla

the mainstream media will brush this story under the carpet no radio station will discuss it today
[info]maradona_2009 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 06:33 am (UTC)
this story will get brushed under the carpet especially in the radio stations like bbc radio five live and talksport radio there is definatley a double stantards and hidden agenda in this country a few weeks ago both these stations were running the story about the students who were arrested in this big bomb plot but they will ignore this as nothing has happend the goverment propaganda and spin headed by our media is in overdrive yet we will get the gurkha victory the tax payer is goona have to pay for while moaning about the MPs expenses you could no tmake it up ihave great sympathy towards the muslim community and the way our media and goverment are brainwahing us
A touch of reality
[info]rogersbrother wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 06:44 am (UTC)
Unsubstantiated allegations by suspects are nothing new. 'It's all a fit up.. etc. etc.'

And even if these unsubstantiated allegations turn out to be true - so what?
The security services exist to protect the UK from terrorist threats and there are not many terrorists amongst the indigenous British population. What do you expect the security services to do, target white OAPs in Bournemouth?

Re: A touch of reality
[info]copycat7 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 09:49 am (UTC)
"and there are not many terrorists amongst the indigenous British population"

Thats right, they are all busy doing army service in the middle east.
Re: A touch of reality - [info]copycat7 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 10:06 am (UTC) Expand
Re: A touch of reality - [info]moresomaplease - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 12:47 pm (UTC) Expand
MI5/Mossad?
[info]applecounty wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 06:59 am (UTC)
Sounds remarkably familiar (from what i have read down the years) to the tactics used by Mossad in the West Bank and elsewhere (Like Bagdad of late). Lovely place Britian, nice people. I bet the Barclay twins Telegraph won't run this story.
I'm sick of your Islamist anti-Jew ranting!
[info]nooraza wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:12 am (UTC)
Sick Islamists like yourself don't belong to the modern world nor the west. "The Jews are always behind everything" - you sick pervert barbarian, that's all you Islamist know what to say in that dead-pan cavemen brain of yours!
Re: I'm sick of your Islamist anti-Jew ranting! - [info]copycat7 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:28 am (UTC) Expand
Re: I'm sick of your Islamist anti-Jew ranting! - [info]copycat7 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 09:47 am (UTC) Expand
Re: I&#39;m sick of your Islamist anti-Jew ranting! - [info]applecounty - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 04:20 pm (UTC) Expand
Tip of the iceberg
[info]tominlondon wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:09 am (UTC)
Well done to these guys for not being afraid and for going to their MP. It illustrates the desperation of MI5, how they are having trouble finding sources within the Muslim community, and their crude, cruel ways of trying to get around the problem. Presumably these few targets who have come out into the open are only the tip of the iceberg. I would assume there are others who have succumbed and are now operating as MI5 agents (or it might be better to call them "agents provocatuers".
Such mistakes do not undermine the fact that many Islamist terrorists are real terrorists!
[info]nooraza wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:19 am (UTC)
M15 needs to make sure that their operation is not going to undermine operations in catching real terrrorists, where many are still lurking in the west. They should also look at some of the comments here where you can see where some of these Islamists are coming from! Especially from anti-Jew rantings and one even shockingly demnading brutal Sharia Law in Britain! Imagine what frighteningly sick minds these perverts have!
Re: Such mistakes do not undermine the fact that many Islamist terrorists are real terrorists!
[info]copycat7 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:43 am (UTC)
Do you jews ever grow tired of demonising the muslims as terrorists?. Did you learn nothing from WW2? Its a little hard to take concidering Israel slaughters arabs year after year at a ratio of 100 to 1 whilst winging how oppressed the jews are daily in our media. Guess what!. If jews mass slaughter people year after year it has a tendancy to bring back some bad Karma!. Israel reaps what it sows!. And please dont try that old bullshit "Israel does not target civilians". In the recent attack on gaza out of 1200 or so arabs dead aprox 550 were women and children. ("all misstakes") and "collateral damage" as usaul. Explain that one to your God when you see him. If the palestinians are a "violent terrorist culture" what does that make people who kill 100 times more people than them?. And if you sppose you have the right to kill a terrorist. what gives you the right to kill the other 99 in the ratio?
Jack Night says...
[info]sancho_2 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:19 am (UTC)
......and pigs can fly!!
It is a police state
[info]trevormann wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:26 am (UTC)
We do live in a police state. Look at how many fatal shooting there has been by police in the past 2 months (they didnt make front page news). Notice all the cameras everywhere watching our every move. The CIA and their SISter organization MI5/6 have been doing a lot worse than this, and its been going on for much longer. Better start reading 1984 until you know it by heart.
Hearsay
[info]leonore35 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:56 am (UTC)
There is little comment from the government side here only statements from the 'victims'
who claim their complaints have been ignored.
Do MI5 agents give out their names? My name is Bond - James Bond!
Why don't they go to their freedom loving democratic homelands where they will find out about real harrassment. Also enjoy the joys of Sharia law as the Pakistanis are doing. Like kids being executed.
As anti semitic writings are freely available on the book stalls throughout the Middle East, including the proven fake Protocols of the Elders of Zion created by the Tsars secret police to justify pogroms, it is not surprising that Muslims keep bringing up the Jewish communists 'control' in UK
Jewish refugees have come to our country for centuries and quietly practised their faith, got on with their business and been supporters and benefactors of our nation, and did not force their ideas on anyone.
Muslims should try it.
PS I am not in any way religious

Re: Hearsay
[info]jayoosi wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:27 am (UTC)
"did not force their ideas on anyone."

Are you sure this is accurate? Far too many "non anti-Semitic" books, and books from Jewish historians would dispute this.

"PS I am not in any way religious"

Yes, we noticed. You are an Islamophobe Zionist.
Re: Hearsay - [info]momogiraf - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:32 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Hearsay - [info]copycat7 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 10:11 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Hearsay - [info]philipshahak - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 12:04 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Hearsay - [info]errorism77 - Sunday, 24 May 2009 at 10:46 pm (UTC) Expand
suprise suprise five live radio refuseing to mention this story on its show or news bullettins!!!
[info]maradona_2009 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:05 am (UTC)
to think we are forced to pay our licence fee to fund the staff and management who are public servants and this 2 bob station is talking about dogs today and all week about expenses while the report in to the reason our secret sevices and goverment did not stop the july 7th bombings due to lack of funds when they claimed they knew nothing about siddique khan got no mention on the phone-in its and the same today about the MI5 blackmailing muslims by telling them to work for us or we will say you are a terrorists how these stories are being brushed inder the carpet while they go on and on about MPs expenses beggers belief
[info]danzalez7 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:18 am (UTC)
What actually is more disgusting than all of this is the PC brigade that infests our country. For not wanting Sharia Law and wanting to maintain our roots and tradition we are branded racists? I am all for free speech which is what many brave men of this country died for, but at the same time we are so soft in this country and appease muslims at every turn, God forbid we may even upset them! We let terrorist lunatics into our country yet we don't even allow people in who are wanted like the Gurkhas?

Now I have muslim friends and I am not in the slightest bit racist, yet it is quite apparent that Islam is infact a war-mongering religion that is used to brain wash people the world over and help them justify their cruel actions, yes we can talk about what the Jews are doing in Israel etc, but we are talking about Islam...Those people who don't want to embrace our culture, learn our language and integrate themselves into our community can go.
[info]copycat7 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:29 am (UTC)
"What actually is more disgusting than all of this is the PC brigade that infests our country. For not wanting Sharia Law and wanting to maintain our roots and tradition we are branded racists?"

Who said that?.....Errrrr. Only yourself.

"Now I have muslim friends and I am not in the slightest bit racist, yet it is quite apparent that Islam is infact a war-mongering religion"

If the muslims are a violent culture, what does that make our culture that has killed at a ratio 100 times higher or more in the past and present?
(no subject) - [info]perk_i - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 12:05 pm (UTC) Expand
Jews/Muslims/MI5
[info]leamutt wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:19 am (UTC)

I find it distasteful in the extreme that we are arguing as to who is a bigger threat between the jews/muslims I am sure they are both normally good bodies of people with a few extremists on either side.

I think the real issue here is whether there has been an abuse of power by those in authority. I believe by arguing us and them we neglect the fact that it could be us next. There is always a slipperry slope to kgb style policing. It may be 'only' somalians this week but which of us is next. Let our respective communities work together to sort out if any of these allegations are true and then deal with these problems. It only serves 'big brother/governments when we turn on each other.
"communities" (plural)
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 12:46 pm (UTC)
A "community" is the people living in an area.
Why do you use "communities" (in the sense used which is not in the sense of geographically differentiated "communities")?
Why do you think you have been brainwashed, with the help of a dootiful mass meja, by thirty years of subversive government, into thinking that way instead about one (geographically discreet) 'community'?
Don't know? Allow me : it is to assist creation of a tax-financed oxymoronic 'multicultural society', in which people are too busy bitching among themselves to focus on their parasites.

In the ongoing absence of a Cromwell, vote BNP if you can, otherwise abstain from the pseudo-democratic circus
Re: Jews/Muslims/MI5 - [info]gmonk187 - Friday, 22 May 2009 at 06:37 pm (UTC) Expand
taxpayers money
[info]downtoearthguy wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:45 am (UTC)
How much has it cost to bring all these muslims into this country.feed them and their families and give them free housing? Absolute bloody billions.All they do is complain and commit crime.They do not like our way of life,except the free benefits.Deport them all now I say..we will be much better off.
Re: taxpayers money
[info]copycat7 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 09:51 am (UTC)
Johnboy is that you?

YTa all be good now ya here!. See you at the next BNP meet up!
Re: taxpayers money - [info]jayoosi - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 10:03 am (UTC) Expand
Re: taxpayers money - [info]speakaspitz - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 06:15 pm (UTC) Expand
The construction of "pseudo-gangs" as a policy
[info]rowan_berkeley wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:47 am (UTC)
Ther term "pseudo-gangs" comes from Brigadier Frank Kitson's writing on counter-insurgency, which was based on his work in Kenya. The basic idea is as follows: it is much easier to for the counter-insurgent to create artificial "terrorist" organisations, under his own control, and then use these to discredit and disrupt genuine resistance movements, than it is to identify and capture the latter directly. To this end, security organisations will quite generally attempt to recruit persons from targeted communities, initially as "informants," then as "militants." Progressive blackmail of these individuals will become more compelling as the process develops, and they will find it harder and harder to withdraw, precisely as the demands made on them become more sinister and extreme. It is therefore essential for these people, if they value their lives, to reject such overtures at the very outset.
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