Minister defends Afghan mission as a nation remembers
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As the Queen led the nation in paying respect to Britain's war dead on Remembrance Sunday the Defence Minister, Bob Ainsworth defended the country's mission in Afghanistan, saying the level of involvement could not be determined by public opinion.
As the death toll among British troops rose to 231, Mr Ainsworth acknowledged that support for the campaign had been "dented" by recent losses.
But he said it was important to "persevere" and "show some resolution", adding: "Failure will be a disaster for us."
A ComRes opinion poll today found that almost two thirds - 64% - now believe that the war is "unwinnable", while a similar proportion - 63% - wanted British troops to be withdrawn as soon as possible.
Speaking to Sky News, the Defence Secretary said: "British public opinion has been dented by the level of losses that we have received but we cannot run a campaign like this off the back of an opinion poll.
"We have to persevere, we have to show some resolution.
"This campaign is directly connected to our safety back here in the United Kingdom and people need to recognise that. Failure will be a disaster for us."
Mr Ainsworth insisted that progress was being made in Afghanistan and said troops on the ground understood the campaign was linked to Britain's national security.
He also said the Afghan government would address fundamental issues such as corruption.
Meanwhile, the Queen, warmly clad in a black coat against the autumn chill, placed the first wreath in the annual event at the Cenotaph in Whitehall.
Skies were threatening but the rain held off as the Queen was followed in placing wreaths by the Duke of Edinburgh, Prince Harry, on behalf of the Prince of Wales who is on an official visit to Canada, and Prince William. More wreaths were also placed by the Duke of York, the Earl of Wessex, the Princess Royal and the Duke of Kent.
They were followed by Prime Minister Gordon Brown, David Cameron, Nick Clegg, foreign secretary David Miliband, high commissioners from Commonwealth countries and defence chiefs. Approximately 7,500 ex-Servicemen and women and 1,600 civilians then took part in a march past the Cenotaph.
The crowd 10 deep on the pavement observed the two minutes silence in perfect quiet at 11am before the wreath-laying event. Their minds were no doubt on the recent losses in Afghanistan, which were referred to frequently last night at the annual Festival of Remembrance at the Royal Albert Hall.
Stuart Gendall, director of corporate communications for The Royal British Legion, said: "It's gone very, very well. It's been a very touching ceremony, it's made all the more poignant that foremost in people's minds are the tragic deaths in Afghanistan.
"I think there are more people here today than other years, and there's a definite emotion in the air, you can really feel it.
"People are marching past remembering their fallen comrades from the Second World War, and people are falling even now in a foreign country, young men of the same age."
He said it was the first time that Prince Harry had placed a wreath on Remembrance Sunday.
The Prince has served in Afghanistan.
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Comments
She must also look at Britain today with disbelief that a British government knowingly and willingly allowed Taliban fighters to emigrate to Britain, plus the thousands of other dangerous people that were waved in (See Times today) without proper checks.
''This campaign is directly connected to our safety back here in the United Kingdom and people need to recognise that. Failure will be a disaster for us."
Sorry Mr Ainsworth what do you mean by failure ? More to the point please define success.
Sounds like your definition of success is subjugating and maintaining control of a large mountainous country full of very well armed hostile locals. Do you really think you can do that ?
Truth is this war is a Blair cock up he with joined Bush to catch OBL , failed and then started to invent different reasons for being there.
Our bombers didn't come from there -they came from Luton and other UK cities.
They were not ''trained in training camps in Afghanistan '' (There are no red double decker buses to train on in Afghanistan).
Arguing AQ is in Pakistan is also highly questionable. People seem hell bent on demonising Pakistan- a very long term ally of the UK.
The biggest impediment to pulling out our troops is that it requires the UK to face up to the fact that it was a wrong decision to go there in the first place.
Bring our troops home. And if we are really worried about terrorism chuck out the known dengers (the security folk know who they are) and guard the borders properly.
Sloppy control of our borders is a far greater danger than goat herders in Afghanistan.
As someone who has visited the country more than onceI'd like to make these points
! There are no Afghans rather Pushtuns who overlap into Pakistan,Hazars who are tolerant of other religions Turkomens Balouchis Tadjiks and Khirghiz etc
2 Drugs and drug use throughout male population endemic as is mistreatment of women and boy soldiers
3 Corruption violence and rape are tactics
4 No foreign force even muslim with language skills e..g Iranian or Pakistani army could hold tribal areas
5 Uk has been used misled and misbled by the need of the |New Ameican Century"
6 None of it worth the life of another soldier,Deporting muslims and naval missiles are a backstop
7 Oddly Mis-selling the gold ,anarchy on the streets and failing economy will not be as disasterous as the Helmand humiliation not of the troops but of the
government which will have bled the Army for nothing
8 As for being an ally where are the Pakistan forces SIS and nuclea might to busy quaffing ?
9 Perhaps Brown can ask IDA to add S Afganisan to hit list when the Persian Carpet Bombing starts they seem to do what it says on the bomb
If this were democracy public opinion would win The day and not be scorned upon. Why do these ministers always think they know better, and the public doesn't? Why not let the public decide if we make a mistake then we will all live with it but at least we will all be part of the decision.
What is the mission? It looks like the mission is for geopolitical control, and a pipeline that's what the Americans are fighting for. Propaganda misinformation and lies that's what the government has been doing since day one.
It makes me proud to be British to know that the Queen, was warmly clad in a black coat against the autumn chill.
On the other hand it make s me ashamed that our troops are occupying Afghanistan and slaughtering its people all for a gas pipeline.
Having a British passport will never make you British, not in a thousand years. I pray that people like you are outed, you are dangerous and I consider your remarks in your post absolutely disgraceful.
These fading New Labour politicians seem unaware that the public no longer depends on their words for information. When they lie, the lies are obvious. When they repeat, as U.S. puppets, the latest handouts from their masters, their spurious arguments and selective information are visible in these spacious days of world-wide, internet communication...
By offering alternative sources of information, the internet gives more people more opportunity to make decisions outside the official "narratives" devised in Washington think-tanks which are daily parroted by politicians and paraphrased by official media.
Ironically, foreign newspapers, on-line discussions, and well-informed blogs can offer more reliable information than a nation's offical spokespersons.
All that's presently lacking is the social organization to follow up on this alternative information - to protest - to proclaim - to cry out: BRING OUR TROOPS HOME. EXIT NATO. ABANDON BRITAIN'S MILITARY ECONOMY.
Where has the spirit of PROTEST gone? Where are the women of Greenham Common?
Didn't someone once say that those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I can't help but draw parallels of 1930s Germany with our new 21st century: A humiliated army returning from a bloody war to a bankrupt country they no longer recognize as their own. Pulling out of Afghanistan would be a disaster. All those lives lost would have been for nothing and it would leave a very bitter taste in the mouth of the British people. Just think of the smug looks you'd see around the place, the army would look like a they've been defeated by the enemy and betrayed by their own government.
Pulling out = Curtains
If we stay then it will inevitably mean more casualties, more expense and, arguably, an increase in terrorist attacks on British soil. Staying means Pakistan could be pulled into the conflict, which would infuriate Pakistani Muslims who hate having anything to do with the US, especially killing fellow Muslims.
Staying in = Decades of strife
Makes one wonder what all this is really about. It looks like we've been stitched up like a kipper.
This is an occupation/invasion/war that was never backed by the british people, let alone the soldiers sent there to fight as political puppets.
The war will not be won, it's just going to be yet another 'vietnam' or northern ireland for UK.
Claiming that this war is needed to protect security in the UK is made up rubbish, it's about controlling natural resources and vital pipelines for the west. Period. Sure the taliban are a bunch of crazy extremists but so are the people who run Saudi Arabia...women can't vote or drive in Saudi....does that ring any bells for the UK?
All this human rights/democracy talk is just pathetic considering the recent fraudulent elections there that even mugabe would envy!
Let's not kid ourselves. In fact, being there makes the UK a target. It's a long way away, don't give them visas..they can't come here. It's quite simple. A war zone only generates asylum seekers, so perhaps the border agency should be pressing the MOD to pull out and save them the paperwork
This War will continue...thats for sure!!
But the war won't be won, the taliban never gave a shit about the UK before this war and probably won't after it. I don't see them flying into Heathrow somehow.
No one will win it, even the italians were paying the taliban to stop them attacking italian troops, it's the only way to keep them at bay.
This is more about Iran than anything - but if you wan't to claim it's about 'freedom' or democracy or 'fighting the taliban' feel free to have your opinion, most british people aren't so stupid as to fall for this smoke and mirrors trick anymore, we were already lied to over Iraq and the famous 'WMD's that were not there and the 'secret intelligence' we are not allowed to see or know about and are expected to just believe blindly and swallow...it wont happen again...the govt lied and in fact blair should be sitting in the hague right now standing trial for war crimes.
Now does anyone else need to know the real reason for the invasion of Afghanistan.
"public opinion can not dictate policy"
Who the hell do these politician scum think they are.
I really wish I could state here what I would personally like to do to them-but labour have stitched us all up,and the independents moderator can not allow it.
It makes one wonder, with all these lies...what exactly DID happen in WW2? As lies are seeping out all the time and we discover the truth...I wonder just what version of events the Germans had and how those differ from the UK's and their US 'allies' version? And how this version is at variance with the facts of the matter?
I'm not saying I support Germany for one minute, but just look at lies and spin we are fed, apply it to any other situation, especially war, and see what I mean? You just can't trust labour, or politicians for that matter.
During the quick Axis victory in April 1941, much of light weaponry remained in the hands of population to provide ample seeding for the breakout of a civil war. In 1941, Axis forces directly occupied some parts, while in most of the territory installed various puppet regimes, which started atrocities on national (in the West, you like to call them ethnic, but then British and Americans are also two ethnicities of the same nation) and religious/ideological basis, pretty much following well-known brutality of Germans, Italians, and Bulgarians. Germans mostly focused on transport lines (particularly to supply Greece), several times tried in vain to capture and/or anihilate Tito's partisans, but their shear presence brought enormous suffering to the civilian population since they provided grounds for the civil war. Yugoslavian war theatre was never of importance for Germany (despite excellent Tito's propaganda, which British readily embraced), and they probably - with a bit more diplomacy and patience - even would not have had to invade it.
Now, I don't know the real reasons behind presence of Anglo-American and NATO forces (including my home country) in Afghanistan. If it is to fight terorism, let's cut the crap and this imbecile rhetoric of Bush-Blair era; if it is to secure the pipeline, politicians should say so, make the corridor (like around Panama canal), and this is it; our boys are then risking their lives for profit of big corporations. I know they are fine and brave people, but they should pick some other arena to prove themselves: now they are just mercenaries fighting in a foreign country for a wrong cause and making conditions right for enormous suffering of civilian population. Afghanistans don't need us, and I - and probably many with me - feel ashamed that our governments are cynically supporting Karzai and other thugs. This is a dirty war, just as World War II was dirty in Yugoslavia. So let's bring our boys back home for Christmas, there is so much work to do elsewhere.
9/11 was an INSIDE JOB....
Troops out now and reopen an investigation....
Anyone in doubt...
Watch this
http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?h
Thanks
x
That is a very immature line.
Walking away from fights without clear objectives is what all sensible people always do.
Only macho nutters fight for no good reason. Are we going to kill all the Taliban ? Err no. So when we go they will return. Are we going to control the whole country ? Err no -so when we go they will do what they choose. Have we installed a secure democracy ? Hardly.
Most of these soldiers appear to be dying on roads from explosive devices. Obviously their transport is not safe. They do appear to be dying in battles. We should not be requiring them to travel in an unsafe manner.
The sand of Afghanistan is not worth any more British Soldiers' blood. There is far more useful job to be done here shooting real terrorists who do bomb things in the UK.
hypocrisy of having to ask the general public for their vote at the next election
Obviously the Minister has forgotten which party started two illegal wars.
Beware of the BNP.
"War is natures' pruning fork.
The Elite,who rule us,must be irritated at the relatively small casualty rate,as they thin out,our young male,post industrial,working class population.
A re-run of the Somme,would be more to their liking.
Milipede told the Dacre-on-Sunday that the troops are in Afghanistan because, if they leave, the Taliban will get Pakistan's nuclear weapons.
perhaps Iam relaxed about plotting a because if someone committed an atrocity where I live, no-one would notice, given the plethora of atrocities committed on us by this Zanulabour government; anyway it's the back end of beyond and no baddies will have heard of it
anyway we don't care about London round here
mind you I have a theory that it was Al Quaeda that put( in smashed)the windows of Chippenham Magistrates' Court
Your Afghan mission, should you accept it:
1) Have mobsters fight the corruption around them.
2) Build an army of a size the host country cannot support nor afford.
3) Train local police forces, then convince them that they should stop being the villages' local racketeering & rape club.
4) Interdict opium shifting by CIA-financed glitterati.
5) Set up cargo-cult democracy through urns distributed throughout the country.
6) Pretend not to notice the 1-ton Pakistani Gorilla in the corner leering at you
7) Also, find Unicorns.
Don't you mean for YOU, Mr Ainsworth, because in your previous comment
we're not included in the decision making process and actually, i'm rather
glad i'm not.
I think this about the third time, in two hundred years and we're still here,
life goes on. The taliban just got the seculars out and we lost, history repeating
it'self and even if you/we win................
Things will eventually revert back, you know it, i know it, let's hope the troops
don't realise it.
British public opinion is, " dented ", because your all, full of it.
Mj Stirrup has stated most of al-qaeda are finished so why are you talking
about another five years ? Is that how long it takes to get the gas out ?
Public's sick of your patronising lies.
Ask why the poppy crops have not been destroyed,ask why out of the billons spent a mere 8-9 %of that money has actually been spent to benefit the local population and win hearts and minds
The only interests at stake are the American interests and those of their arms manufacturers,and of course the oil companies along with the drug dealing cartels.
The stoking of the fires of hate are destroying innocent people,all to further the aims of the vested interests of other nations and organisations both legal and illegal,covert and overt, in keeping the fires of war burning so as to prolong their war efforts and profits elswhere.
Should we be involved in another states civil war?
The Afghani's are a tribal society and can never be bought ,yes they can be rented but that is it.
All the vested interests are not concerned with body bags ,the dead are an insignificant cost in the relentless search for profit.
America has it seems not learned from Vietnam,or Korea much the same as Bliar and Clown have not learnt either.
Meltdown comes to mind, because every rengade organisation would get the green light to shaft those odious bastards who started this campaign and claim to have the authority to do so for the everyday masses.
I note the said authorities in whitehall are trying save face and to pave the way by saying corruption in Afghanistan is the root cause of failure and hence a withdrawal will be made on this basis. What a limp dick excuse this is.
If corruption is the root cause of abject failure. Send for the keystone cops who might resolve the matter. But I suspect face will have to be saved and this campaign will drag on for an eternity.