Peter Hain: We ministers must simply listen more

The IoS interview: Peter Hain, Minister for Europe

Peter Hain is the minister for Europe, but never-ending trips to Brussels do not prevent him from taking a close interest in domestic politics. So close is his interest that on the eve of Labour's conference Mr Hain has a keen sense of the tensions between the Government and party members. Partly he blames the Government. "Ministers are more detached from the party, and the party is more detached from ministers, than it is comfortable for us to be.

"We've got to work much harder to make sure the party understands the realities of power and that ministers understand the concerns of the rank and file."

Mr Hain is speaking from his large room along the ornate corridors of the Foreign Office. He plans to be there until late in the night, working on final drafts of speeches for this week's conference. Evidently he intends to show that he is not "detached" from party members, as he did a couple of weeks ago by spending a couple of days at the TUC annual conference, also staged in Blackpool.

"In opposition we developed a very disciplined and tight operation to win power. It was critical that we did that. Now we need to pay more care and attention to party members." He praises the work of Labour's new general secretary, David Triesman and the party chairman, Charles Clarke, before suggesting that the Government must be more responsive.

He says with astonishing candour that party members have "justified complaints, justified grievances and have been alienated by gratuitous statements from members of the Government that should not have been made". Quickly he balances this observation by saying that party members are "naturally grumpy, that is the nature of being socialists".

What does he mean by "gratuitous statements" made by ministers? "It's been acknowledged by the leadership that it could have handled some things better, especially the argument over private sector involvement in the NHS." How was it mishandled? "I think I will leave it at that, but in terms of the future you can only run the NHS if we work together.

"The Government should not go around issuing ultimatums, but union leaders need to work constructively with the Government."

Mr Hain decides to not quite leave it at that: "Often what we are doing bears little relationship to what is communicated outside. This is not a knee-jerk attack on the media. Our own communications' strategy is not always perfect by an any means.

"There has been too much insecurity around, constantly taking a Daily Mail agenda rather than a Daily Mirror agenda. That is not necessary any more. We can be secure, self-confident. We should be shouting from the rooftops, for example, that our rises in public spending are higher than anywhere in the world. But we don't."

He worries particularly about the relationship between the Government and trade unions. There is a big row looming this week over the involvement of the private sector in public services, the private finance initiatives, and the public-private partnerships. Mr Hain, a shrewd politician, again balances his criticisms of the Government. "We have made mistakes in the relationship and the union leaders have also made some mistakes. There has been too little understanding by the Government, not enough brotherly or sisterly solidarity. There has been too much grandstanding by some trade union leaders.

"We have got to repair this relationship and we've got to do it pretty damned quickly. To take one example, as a government we have every right to stand our ground on policy, but we should seek to do it in a more consensual way. As for the unions they must realise that this Labour government is a pretty valuable asset, a thousand times better than a Tory government."

After this extensive tour of Labour Party politics I suggest that he seems to be crusading less for the euro these days. Earlier this year Mr Hain went on what was billed as a Europe tour, highlighting the potential benefits of the single currency.

Apparently the tour is still ongoing, although he spends more time now in Brussels as part of the convention reviewing the EU constitution. Some of the proposed changes, he suggests, will make Britain "more at home with Europe, more comfortable about Europe".

On Iraq, he seeks to reassure party activists heading for Blackpool this week. "I fully understand their worries. Any minister who did not know the mood out there would be shutting their eyes and closing their ears. All I know for a fact is that Tony Blair and Jack Straw have exerted a huge influence on the US."

I suggest that "huge influence" is a very big claim. "They have done. This is the benefit of being close friends with the US. You are listened to. They sometimes might seem to be in an awkward position, but it is worth it to get the results you want. We are determined to get a UN-based mandate for moving forward."

He gives an insight into the frantic diplomacy currently being conducted behind the scenes. "Jack Straw and Tony Blair are on the phone daily about this. Working here, what you see is the diplomacy going on through the night. We've got officials going to Moscow tomorrow. Top officials came back from Paris yesterday. A lot of working is going on to achieve the objective of Iraqi disarmament. That is the best solution – to get Iraqi disarmament." He makes no reference to "regime change".

Mr Hain handles a range of issues with the confidence of someone who has a firm base of support within the Labour Party. I wonder if he has much higher ambitions, possibly to get to the very top.

"I've never had a career plan in mind; any politician who has done would be destined for disappointment. But I have close relations with trade unions and different wings in the party and I'm not in any personality faction. If there is something we could rid ourselves of very profitably in the party it is personality factions. There aren't ideological arguments in the Government, but there are personality factions."

Does he mean the Blairites and the Brownites? "I am not commenting on that, but I am not part of any '-ite'. I try and tell it as I see it. That doesn't necessarily advance your career." He pauses. "But I haven't done badly so far."

Biography

1950 Born in Kenya

1966 Parents, anti-apartheid activists, bring family to Britain

1973 Gains a first at Queen Mary College, London

1971 Author of Don't Play with Apartheid, first of numerous publications

1971-73 National chairman of Young Liberals

1975 Marries Patricia Western

1977 Joins Labour Party

1991 By-election victory in Neath, south Wales

1995 Foreign affairs whip

1996 Shadow employment minister

1997 Under-Secretary of State, Welsh Office

1999-2001 Minister of State in Foreign Office, then Department of Trade and Industry

2001 Minister for Europe