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Revealed: the full extent of Labour's curbs on civil liberties

Audit report highlights 'permanent erosion' of freedoms since 1997

By Michael Savage, Political Correspodent

'We have lived under one of the most authoritarian ages in living memory,' says Shami Chakrabarti of Liberty

PA

'We have lived under one of the most authoritarian ages in living memory,' says Shami Chakrabarti of Liberty

The full extent of state powers to detain people without charge, cover up Government errors, hold the DNA of the innocent and share personal data between public bodies has been revealed in a devastating analysis of the erosion of civil liberties in Britain over the past decade.

Almost 60 new powers contained in more than 25 Acts of Parliament have whittled away at freedoms and broken pledges set out in the Human Rights Act and Magna Carta, according to a new audit of laws introduced since Labour came to power in 1997. The dossier, compiled by the Convention on Modern Liberty, criticises police powers to detain terror suspects for 28 days without charge, new stop-and-search powers handed to police (allowing them to stop people without reason at airports and other designated areas), and restrictions on the right of peaceful protest.

It is the first time such a picture of the erosion of rights under Labour has been published. The rise in surveillance in Britain is also documented, including new laws allowing individuals to be electronically tagged, and the legal interception of letters, emails and phone calls.

Control orders, designed to confine terrorist suspects who have not been found guilty, are also cited. The orders, created under the Prevention of Terrorism Act in 2005, can include the power of house arrest and electronic tagging.

"The right to privacy has been eroded, perhaps permanently, by broad powers to intercept, collect, store and share our private information," the dossier states.

The Coroners and Justice Bill, currently going through Parliament, is accused of seeking to hand the state the power to prevent embarrassing revelations of Government failure becoming public. Coroners are currently able to criticise the Government and any of its agencies that cause a death. But the Bill would hand the state new powers to suspend inquests, or force them into secret. It would also allow Government agencies to share personal data.

David Davis, the Conservative MP who resigned as shadow home secretary and called a by-election to campaign against what he described as the Government's growing attack on British liberties, said the measures cited in the report give hundreds of bodies the power to "snoop, spy and bug" on the public.

"It is a real, serious, systemic problem," Mr Davis said. "I cannot believe it is happening. It's up to us to make sure it is stopped."

Mr Davis said that he did not regret leaving his post as shadow Home Secretary to fight the cause "for a second". "We had to put a check on this process, dribbling away, salami slice by slice," he said. "And if I'd found a cheaper way of doing it, I would have done it more cheaply."

Henry Porter, one of the organisers of the Convention on Modern Liberty, said that there was "little doubt that there is a crisis of liberty in Britain".

"We needed an account to show the legislative programme that swept away many centuries-old rights and transferred so much power from the individual to the state actually existed," he said. "We now have that evidence [and can] oppose what is happening to one of the world's oldest democracies."

A spokesman for the Home Office said that CCTV surveillance and the use of a DNA database were "essential crime-fighting tools".

"The Government has been clear that where surveillance or data collection will impact on privacy they should only be used where it is necessary and proportionate," he said. "The key is to strike the right balance between privacy, protection and sharing of personal data."

Britain under Labour: The Convention on Modern Liberty's take

"Laws stopping people taking pictures of the police have little to do with tackling crime"

Moazzem Begg, Former Guantanamo Bay detainee

"We are now the most spied-upon country in the developed world"

Nick Clegg, Leader of the Liberal Democrats

"We have lived under one of the most authoritarian ages in living memory"

Shami Chakrabarti, Head of Liberty

"This attack on our freedoms under this government threatens us all"

Dominic Grieve, Shadow Justice Secretary

60

New powers in 25 Acts have undermined civil liberties under Labour.

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nulabor dictatorship
[info]doomsdaybug wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 01:10 am (UTC)
To date, every law introduced for security reasons has been used against the citizens, for no other reason than for nulabor's preservation of power.
This corrupt nulabor cult understands the importance of controlling the flow of information and stifling debate. It is pure paranoia and desperation on the part of nulabor to censor public criticism.
This nulabor cadre has declared war upon it citizens. Dovernment has become the enemy of the state.
Last time this happened, heads rolled, literally.
Why is nulabor seemingly deliberately doing everything it can to ensure the development of those conditions that give rise to disorder, social unrest, riots, insurrection and even revolution ?
If the populace should react as being driven, this gives nulabor its excuse to impose a dictatorship - which is, by and large, what we have had for the past several years, with increasing impositions upon the freedoms of citizens
This nulabor government is corrupt. The nulabor corruption is absolute, lead from the top down, imposed through all tiers of social and government control, down to street level. Being rotten to the core and from the core, everything it touches it taints. Having neither the ability nor inclination to correct itself, outside intervention is indicated.
Re: nulabor dictatorship
[info]vhawk1951 wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 12:00 pm (UTC)
don't worry they'll be gone soon
Re: nulabor dictatorship - [info]tyrell - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 12:23 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: nulabor dictatorship - [info]vhawk1951 - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 06:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: nulabor dictatorship - [info]sl1ther - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 12:14 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: nulabor dictatorship - [info]denzilwallasey - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 01:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: nulabor dictatorship - [info]denzilwallasey - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 01:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Who will free us?
[info]hudthedug wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 01:14 am (UTC)
Who, among the mainsream political parties will do anything to reverse this terrible erosion of our long fought for civil liberties?
I'm betting none of them will!
Whoever gains power at the next General Election will do nothing, because it's too convenient to have a bludgeoned populace to rule.
Re: Who will free us?
[info]ancientoneuk wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 05:10 am (UTC)
There are little option left to us sadly.

We could hope that for instance the Tories would get in, would stick to their promises and u-turn much of NuLabours damaging legislature but I wouldn't bank on it because as soon as Cameron gets in, MI5 & 6, the Americans will force him to comply with whats going on today, he will be "convinced" its in the nations interests.

The only other option is a massive show of civil disobedience, one to shock the nation to the core and to frighten the very bejasus out of Brown and Co, failing that there is only one option left and that is insurrection...

There is an iceberg looming in the distance against HMS NuLabour's path, that of the incoming changes to unemployment benefits, with so many people laid off, losing their jobs, the long term unemployed facing little or no chance of ever getting a job, the massive government closedown of local benefit and job centres, forcing many of these people to travel up to 30 miles just to sign on, things are going to go from bad to worse and there will be people amongst them that will feel they have little to lose, are worthless and it then that the choice will be made to pick up a half brick and lob it at the nearest copper.

I imagine the tensions in inner cities alone will rise dramatically, as we saw in the eighties... it will spread.
WHO INDEED
[info]charityplayer wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 01:26 am (UTC)
YU WILL KNOW IF YU GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS
http://charityplayer.spaces.live.com/default.aspx
CYBERPAGE
It's not just new labour - we're all to blame!
[info]samb_uk wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 01:47 am (UTC)
Almost everyone in this country has to accept his or her part of the blame for the erosion of our civil liberties. On so many issues, we have been all too willing to sacrifice precious liberty for a temporary, false sense of security.

It's sad.
Re: It's not just new labour - we're all to blame!
[info]forwardplanning wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 06:26 am (UTC)
With respect that is not strictly true

There have been a number who have made a stand:

Pensioners prisoned for making a stand against oppressive Council Taxes
The man criminalised for the height of a bin lid because he dared to protest against petty oppressive rules and
Many other examples have hit the headlines
David Davies made a stand last year and whilst many supported him an equal number criticised it as a publicity stunt

Many people have been complaining of this drip drip erosion of our ancient rights and freedoms for years, and were cried down as conspiracy theorist nutters because they could see, what others would not, until now.

No, the time has come for ALL to stand up and say NO MORE and that means being vocal in support.

We can write to our MP every time an act of oppression takes place. If your MP is in power yes he/she will ignore you but the message is, you will not be voted in again and if in opposition, make it clear you will continue to protest, if they do not reverse the damage.

I think my MP possibly bangs his head on his desk in despair every time an email arrives with my name on it - the latest response from him advised me he would find it difficult to be as extreme as me, and my response was to remind him of the War memorials around the country and why they exist and that the only difference between then and now is that now, it is only the people who standing up to protect our rights and freedoms that earlier generation gave their lives to protect. The point is, if everyone did the same the message gets across, they cannot ignore millions when they are merely hundreds.

It is about the people refusing to use or acknowledge the PC language of segregation. This is the language of divide and rule. We are not 'communities' of this and that, we are society! Refuse to accept descriptive terms such as 'muslim community'. Islam is a religious ideology and the people of this religious persuasion are part of the same society as you, I and all the others with varying religious leanings.

It is about the people questioning their local councils behaviours by writing to them and to their local rags.

The local 'stasi' employed by your Council to execute their oppressive and controlling rules could be subject to a slow hand clap by the local populace when seen behaving, as they did for example in the case of the toddler dropping sausage roll crumbs.

There is a lot we the people can do, all we need to do is for everyone to imagine how they would feel if it was happening to them and stand together, instead of criticising or resorting to hand wringing.
Re: It's not just new labour - we're all to blame! - [info]cronyblatcher - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 07:38 am (UTC) Expand
Re: It's not just new labour - we're all to blame! - [info]forwardplanning - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 07:47 am (UTC) Expand
Re: It's not just new labour - we're all to blame! - [info]l3enz0 - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 09:54 am (UTC) Expand
Re: It's not just new labour - we're all to blame! - [info]testing_times - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 10:34 am (UTC) Expand
Re: It's not just new labour - we're all to blame! - [info]kjackson76 - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 01:01 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: It's not just new labour - we're all to blame! - [info]forwardplanning - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 03:12 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: It's not just new labour - we're all to blame! - [info]r_seymour - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 10:55 am (UTC) Expand
Re: It's not just new labour - we're all to blame! - [info]vhawk1951 - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 06:12 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]jonpaulr wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 01:59 am (UTC)
In the old days when police were like Dixon of dock green if a police officer was murdered like Dixon was in the Blue lamp he could miracuosly come back to life for the TV show ,there was no right to appeal, there was the death penalty and police could force people to make confessions, the idea that a p.c could possibly assault someone seem ridiculous, there was no Human rights act, Freedom of inforamtion act and no Mcpherson report, police intervierws wern't taped either, therewas , If the likes of Ms Chakrabarti want us to go back pre 1997 would she like us to get rid of the other things introduced since then or would she like a situation were the police can't control law and order

I don't consider we are in a Nazi police state nu alb stasi stalinst regime either, ISn't stop and search more accountable now than under the 1984 pace act on stop and search or the old sus laws
THE STATE WE ARE IN
[info]charityplayer wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 02:38 am (UTC)
CROMWELLS' SUCCESSION
Doing nothing is not an option
[info]forwardplanning wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 05:35 am (UTC)
So what the people have been saying for years is now official!

So what are they going to do about?

'So What', mayhap?

I think not. Do something for the people or the people will do it for themselves
Dictatorship
[info]lordstirling wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 07:47 am (UTC)
The great Labour Party, party of the working man ~ NOT, was allowed to get by without its PM and several senior MPs going to prison from the 'cash for peerages' affair. My experiences with the Brown successors show that they continue the same scam in my case. My case alone, which I outlined in my book "CASH FOR PEERAGES: THE SMOKING GUN", was sufficient to have sent several key Labour "players" to prison for many years. But the 'fix' was in and Blair was allowed to exit Number 10 to his several private homes instead of a nice vacation as a guest of Her Majesty's prison system. This gave us more years of Labour instead of a new national election. Blair gets to continue his NeoCon nonsense about working for peace and now is being touted for "president of Europe" while dear old Gordon continues the process of establishing a high tech police state in the United Kingdom while rewarding the bankers who are destroying the world's economy.

Stirling
(Earl of Stirling)
earlofstirling@yahoo.com
blog: EUROPE
Who pays people like Chakrabarti?
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 07:51 am (UTC)
If they were not stooges they would use the considerable available resources to raise an almighty storm of legal actions using ECHR (as distinct from the intentionally mutilated (because we're ruled and judged by jolly good chaps and therefore don't need the full ECHR) "Human Rights Act" - and other ratified Conventions. In effect conduct a legal guerilla war, instead of indulging in self-promoting meeja spectaculars
Double standards
[info]ptstroud wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 08:08 am (UTC)
I agree with much that Ms Chackrabarti says but wonder just where she was last week when Mr Wilders was banned from entering the country. Also two odious Americans were banned from entry only yesterday. Their views on homosexuality were disgraceful, but so are some of the views of Islamic extremists. Yet Government practices double standards that Liberty seem not to notice,
Freedom under New Labour
[info]justavigil wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 08:32 am (UTC)
Under new labour we have 20 percent of the world's CCTV cameras and we have the largest DNA database ever. Britain today is the only country in the free world that would keep peoples DNA trace for ever if they have not commited a crime.

All in the name of fighting crime. Does anyone how much all this has reduced crime?
People Must Act
[info]neil639 wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 08:39 am (UTC)
This is a very sobering and frightening read, and the prospects for the future look bleak. We used to mock the Soviet Union and other Communist States, but now they are all but gone our Governments in the UK are bringing in the sort of powers we once mocked. It really is no good thinking that the Opposition, once in power, will change anything - they won't. They will find these draconian laws very handy for keeping the public down and keeping secret their own misdeeds and dishonesty. We must change our electoral system so that more than just 27 per cent of the electorate decide who Governs the country. It may be that people will have to display "people power" as they did in some former East European countries. That seems to be all politicians will understand or listen to. The so-called "national interst" is our interests, not the interests of politicians.
It could be..IT IS! you!!
[info]terry_walpole wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 09:03 am (UTC)
Remember all the names we gave to those soviet satellite Cold War regimes that could only thrive by imposition of laws very similar to those passed by the Nu Lab Kult.

Also, am I the only one who can remember a Labour Party (remember them!?) party political broadcast that parodied the Conservative government as Big Brother? A mother and child huddled fearfully into the sofa in their front room while BB speaking from somewhere above them warned them not to vote Conservative or they would get more BB.

Someone should dig that PPB out.

If only we knew then....
what can be done?
[info]jolo13 wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 09:06 am (UTC)
present every candidate in the next election with the statement...."will you promise to reverse all the legislation that has eroded the freedoms of the citizens?"........make them sign it!

Re: what can be done?
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 09:19 am (UTC)
Yes dear.
In fact the only effective course of action (direct action, violence, etcetera, would merely strengthen the parasite - and in response to the above correspondent, sorry but what you propose would as water is to a ducks back) is to promote mass abstention from the pseudo-democracy until a tipping point is reached and there is implosion. It's achievable because the trend would be your friend.
Re: what can be done? - [info]jolo13 - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 09:38 am (UTC) Expand
Re: what can be done? - [info]cronyblatcher - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 09:47 am (UTC) Expand
Re: what can be done? - [info]l3enz0 - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 03:05 pm (UTC) Expand
In other words you don't trust direct democracy - [info]cronyblatcher - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 06:09 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: In other words you don&#39;t trust direct democracy - [info]l3enz0 - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 06:41 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: what can be done? - [info]vhawk1951 - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 06:22 pm (UTC) Expand
surveillance
[info]nickiuk wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 09:17 am (UTC)
it would be all right if the cctv camera's were actually being used to fight crime, but there not, they are being used by the local councils, other bodies to spy on us, to gather evidence that we might be breaking a little know about law, we can't fight that type of snooping as it would mean we would have to know every single bi-law, local government decision, no one could have any hope of knowing that much informarion
Civil Liberties
[info]nonresistant wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 09:28 am (UTC)
Many of us have talked about this subject in private, but where were the press to stand up for our liberties. Everyone was making hay while the sun was shinning.

We need the press to take up the banner and keep fighting for us. We can be critical of the press but they can be our voice when no one else will listen.
"where were the" meeja
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 10:49 am (UTC)
Hanging on to their jobs
Re: "where were the" meeja - [info]cronyblatcher - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 11:12 am (UTC) Expand
Bacteria
[info]kaptainkitten wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 09:38 am (UTC)
Repression is like it.

We can all handle a certain amount, maybe a little is even necessary, but more than a little makes you ill.

In large doses it's fatal.
Liberty
[info]marinebigmike wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 09:48 am (UTC)
The only thing George Orwell got wrong was the date. The last 12 years have seen more restrictions on the liberties of the people of this country than the whole of the previous 1000 years.
Re: Liberty
[info]cadwern wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 10:02 pm (UTC)
what utter racist nonsese geiseric
[info]geiseric wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 09:54 am (UTC)
The reason we supposedly need these restrictions on our freedoms is the advent of multiculturalism.

This government encourages multiculturalism.
"This government encourages multiculturalism" = a fractured society
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 11:20 am (UTC)
In the guise of oxymoronic "multicultural society", for purposes that included creating and maintaining a basket of antagonistic societies too busy bitching among themselves to focus on their parasites
loss of liberty
[info]alterkocker wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 09:55 am (UTC)
Why doesn't Chakrabarti tell us how we can go about reversing this? What is she doing? Where are the websites where we can get information?
With arrogance to some of us it was always obvious!
[info]aden121 wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 09:57 am (UTC)
I am no politician, nor a lawyer, nor an academic of some substance. How ever it was very clear when this government was arguing for 90 day detention without charge that there where some serious forces intent on destroying basic civil liberties knowingly/un-knowingly.

I understood the threat but also History determined that this threat was not going to last forever, so who were such draconian laws going to apply to in the future.

This government was very clever in portraying new laws as been protectors of the average man from alien forces and in fact the average man was too stupid to recognise these laws will apply to him in the future.

I do congratulate organisations such as Liberty, because they appeared to be the only one's who actually questioned openly the real use of such laws.

As democrats and liberal minded people the real judgement on the good of our institutions has always been how we treat the enemy. If we treat them just as they would treat us then i feel we are no better.

If anything this governments reign has reinforced to me is that left wing governments do really like to control a little bit more than necessary. It has also seriously damaged my own confidence and trust in the British way from the highest offices of the land. I mean 10 years ago torture would have been frowned upon and for good reasons too. Now we have a government that could possibly have give given some tacit consent to it.
New Scotland Yard delenda est.
[info]ron_broxted wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 10:01 am (UTC)
You will find that is is easier to establish a police state than to dismantle it.
Re: New Scotland Yard delenda est.
[info]arthur_ide wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 01:31 pm (UTC)
Tony Blair's sole goal was to create a police state more controlling than Mainland China of the Third Reich so that he could force his ontology into a theocracy.
Re: New Scotland Yard delenda est. - [info]ron_broxted - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 01:35 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: New Scotland Yard delenda est. - [info]arthur_ide - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 11:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: New Scotland Yard delenda est. - [info]vhawk1951 - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 08:02 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: New Scotland Yard delenda est. - [info]arthur_ide - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 10:06 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: New Scotland Yard delenda est. - [info]vhawk1951 - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 10:22 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: New Scotland Yard delenda est. - [info]arthur_ide - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 11:21 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: New Scotland Yard delenda est. - [info]ron_broxted - Saturday, 21 February 2009 at 04:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: New Scotland Yard delenda est. - [info]arthur_ide - Saturday, 21 February 2009 at 04:45 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: New Scotland Yard delenda est. - [info]ron_broxted - Saturday, 21 February 2009 at 07:24 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: New Scotland Yard delenda est. - [info]arthur_ide - Saturday, 21 February 2009 at 07:44 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: New Scotland Yard delenda est. - [info]ron_broxted - Saturday, 21 February 2009 at 11:26 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: New Scotland Yard delenda est. - [info]arthur_ide - Saturday, 21 February 2009 at 11:51 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: New Scotland Yard delenda est. - [info]ron_broxted - Sunday, 22 February 2009 at 10:23 am (UTC) Expand
Re: New Scotland Yard delenda est. - [info]arthur_ide - Sunday, 22 February 2009 at 03:19 pm (UTC) Expand
And the others?
[info]ponkbutler wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 10:15 am (UTC)
Labour have lost many a lifelong Labour voter over this erosion of civil liberties, myself included.

But the other parties don't have clear policies on which of his legislation they would repeal with the possible exception of ID cards.

A clear stand would be helpful over this important issue.
Re: And the others?
[info]vhawk1951 wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 06:26 pm (UTC)
me too
[info]peersrogue wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 10:25 am (UTC)
<
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<<The only other option is a massive show of civil disobedience, one to shock the nation to the core and to frighten the very bejasus out of Brown and Co, failing that there is only one option left and that is insurrection...>> ancientoneuk wrote.

I agree 100%, to maintain freedom we have to fight for it in every way possible. People seem to be drugged or sleep walking into our and our children's future oblivion as slaves of this terrible govt: Wish I could believe the other lot would reverse these laws but very sadly I doubt it. Turn off the TV 'reality' is out here in the real world not on your TV screen. Start getting involved. Freedom is bought with real sacrifice and real blood.

Not only that from Tony Blair downwards they must be held to account as a warning to anyone future govt: that we the people can only take so much.
[info]vhawk1951 wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 06:34 pm (UTC)
you'll never get anyone out on the street in this country of apathetic, fat, selfish morons- you need to really anger them first and that means hurting their pockets else they will just watch their moronic tellyboxonly when real HATE builds up in them will they go on the streets and our smug neo- fascist civil service who control Zanulabour know that. what we really need is a government which will root out these neo fascists
YOU BELONG TO THEM
[info]dinner4two wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 10:26 am (UTC)
They think you belong to them and they are by definition "good".
Liberty and freedom of speech
[info]sccheshi wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 10:27 am (UTC)
Although I agree that this government has in many ways erroded our freedom, freedom has also caused serious problems throughout society and has certainly led to the downfall of family life and respect in the community.

Shami Chakrabarti and Liberty seem to always be in the media when the civil rights of black, asian, gay, lesbian etc are being 'abused' but does she fight for the rights of those with other views who in 'liberties' ideal world should have the same rights to voice their opinions and not be threatened or silenced by government? Where was Chakrabarti when Mr Wilders was banned from entering the country. Why wasn't she shouting from the rooftops that this was wrong and that in a democratic country, everyone should have the right to voice their opinion... even if you disagree with it... why because Chakrabarti does not truely belive in civil freedom. Don't mention the BMP... their opinions do not suit... therefore as she said on questiontime a couple of weeks back... "we will not let them (BMP) take this country..." yep... thats civil liberties for you... totally biased. I wouldn't trust Chakrabarti... she would only be happy once we have a Black prime minister, black chief of police, black head of the bank of england etc etc. I suggest if she dislike the way this country is that she goes elsewhere. I don't like this country either.. I would love to leave (say to Spain) but look what we Brits have done to parts of Spain... can you blame some of the spanish for hating us for it? No.

It is impossible to have complete freedom... there will be those that already reading this think I'm racist, should be silenced etc etc... these the same people who call for civil liberties. Actually I'm not racisist.. indeed I have worked with some fantastic people in Turkey, Pakistan and Sri Lanka... and in all cases I respected the laws and society of the people in those countries. Perhaps people should start to respect British law and British society.

I'm disgusted that Britsh White liberties have been erroded. There are words in my own language I cannot use because someone may take offence... I'm waiting for someone to ban all swear words!!!

We have to have laws and some control of our freedoms because chaos would reign else. Sadly, rather than deporting terrorists we allow them to stay in this country, pay for their protection all because of their own country may tourture them. Perhaps they should have thought about that before becoming terrorists.

Civil rights will only ever work when they are applied to benefit the majority population of a country. I can't go to india, china africa or america and expect the same benefits as immigrants into the UK.
Re: Liberty and freedom of speech
[info]another_pete wrote:
Friday, 20 February 2009 at 01:56 pm (UTC)
Gee Buddy for someone who isn't a racist you've thrown in every stereotype condemnation. All those immigrant foreigners coming here stopping us swearing and taking our benefits. Yea that's the root of the problem and your not a racist. SURE. Well for racists like you learn this. MOST people who come here work and work hard. They are not on benefits and often are subject to abuse ironically by local people some of which are on benefits.

Any political system that only protects the majority tends towards tyranny for the simple reason that one way or another we are all minorities. Are you a libertarian, your a minority, a socialist, a deeply religious christian, Jew, Zoroastrian, Buddhist, etc your a minority. Are you a white supremacist who thinks only Anglo-Saxons should live in England, your a minority. Get it? Everyone only partly overlaps into the MAJORITY. We all have unique social, political, cultural, educational, racial, sexual, religious characteristics that make us move away from the majority in one way or another.

Anyway why are you so insecure that you think we should become some totally uniform conformist mass. Learn to deal with difference.
Re: Liberty and freedom of speech - [info]vhawk1951 - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 06:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Liberty and freedom of speech - [info]sccheshi - Friday, 20 February 2009 at 09:31 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Liberty and freedom of speech - [info]another_pete - Saturday, 21 February 2009 at 02:00 am (UTC) Expand
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