Deborah Orr: There are places laws can't reach
Human beings really do have to take some responsibility for the moral policing of themselves
Wednesday, 3 September 2008
Date rape reliably generates controversy, as Helen Mirren has found this week. Part of the difficulty is that the "date rape" scenario, in court, is regarded as uniquely intractable. In the absence of powerful collaborative evidence, after all, it really is one person's word against another's, and there is room for "reasonable doubt".
However hard campaigning groups press for rape suites, for judicial reform, for more immediate and committed police investigation, there is very often no getting round this. The law a lot of the time simply cannot achieve justice for people who fall victim to sexual attacks, and never will be able to. That's a large part of the reason why conviction rates are so low.
Yet, unfortunately, it is not only in the case of date rape that the law has proved to be an ineffective mechanism for resolving highly intimate gender conflicts. The family courts are not criminal courts. Still, day after day, they are charged with attempting to do the nigh-impossible – squaring the demands of warring former couples whose own words are usually also intractably against each other's. And day after day, they fail in their efforts.
No one has a good word to say for the family courts. People go expecting to be vindicated, and find that their pleas for justice are not answered. They very often find, in the absence of powerful collaborative evidence, that their word carries no more weight than that of their fellow combatant.
Again campaigners press for judicial change. The courts should not be held in camera. Children should be routinely allowed to give evidence. People who do not comply with court orders should be arrested and punished. All these suggestions, as do those pertaining to rape in the criminal courts, have their crude merits, and address real difficulties. But all of them, tragically, have a terrible flaw.
They all make yet more ghastly the ordeal of the people that the law is primarily concerned with protecting, the children who are involved in the conflict, but with little hope of making a decisive change in outcome. Just as putting the victims of rape through a trial that is unlikely to secure justice for them, simply adds to their violation and misery, moving the children involved in an acrimonious break-up to centre-stage is a sort of victim-punishment.
There are of course many significant differences between the two situations. But they both tell us an obvious truth, one that it seems strange we do not recognise more fully and clearly. The legal process cannot reach into our homes, our hotel rooms, our private places, our minds, our hearts, our souls, then cast its impartial eye over what occurred between those walls, and between those people, and decide who was at fault. Only a very odd fish would ever wish that it could be so either.
The truth is that human beings really do have to take some responsibility for the moral policing of themselves. There has been much grumbling over recent years about Labour's unwillingness to accept this, and its zeal instead for the micro-managing of as many aspects of our lives as it possibly can. Labour, one feels, would sit a minder in every living room and every hotel room, quite happily, if it possibly could, and all for our own good.
And while David Cameron's Conservatives may be keen to champion personal responsibility, they are themselves seduced by the idea that just saying such a thing is quite bold and bossy enough. Obviously, their position on the family is one which is tacitly critical of parents whose inability to act in the best interests of their offspring lands them in the family courts. But they admit themselves that thus far they have come up with no policy at all that could possibly address such regrettable breakdowns, unless one believes that people who manifestly hate each other will make a decent fist of domesticity for the sake of a mildly beneficial tax break.
As a liberal Conservative, Cameron must wince at the very idea of returning to pre-social liberalism forms of social control, when social ostracism was so brutal that babies born out of wedlock were "bastards", and women who had sex before marriage were "fallen". Yet it is true that social liberalism has delivered many negative consequences along with the positive ones.
Reluctant for a long period to admit this, the centre left is now thinking about ways of injecting a wider sense of social responsibility into the populace. Richard Reeves at the think-tank Demos is keen to stimulate debate about how cultures can promote "good character". Matthew Taylor, former Blair adviser and now head of the Royal Society for the Encouragement of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce, is likewise fascinated by the challenge of spreading pro-social (as opposed to anti-social) behaviour. But while these are interesting and positive intellectual developments, the awful truth is that we appear to have a problem with being able to agree on what pro-social behaviour or good character even is any more.
The date rape issue is interesting in this context. For me, the pro-social position is clear. There can be no excuses for rape, under any circumstances. There must be a clear definition of the crime, and universal understanding that when it occurs the perpetrator is always responsible. But for others, this principle is not acceptable. They insist that when the victim has been drinking or has placed herself – or himself – in a situation that triggers vulnerability, they must bear responsibility too.
Yet, precisely because rape is a crime that the law so often cannot touch, it is really important that this line should not be blurred. You don't promote social responsibility by suggesting that sometimes it is all right to commit a crime against another person. Instead, you promote the opposite idea. In "date rape" and in many other intimate areas of personal life, it is essential that people understand that the law cannot touch them – either to punish or to vindicate – but that what they are doing is unequivocally wrong.
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Copyright 2008 Independent News and Media Limited




Comments
38 Comments
Your false accusations of rape to a stranger you know nothing about on a message board just shows how hysterical and emotional some women are and why many women are not believed when they claim rape. Women like you are the problem, not men. You should see a counsellor and work through your manhating issues before you lie yourself into real trouble.
Posted by CSG | 04.09.08, 19:42 GMT
Sara - a woman can say no and still consent. If alcohol or other mitigating circumstances are involved, that is taken into account. And it all depends on evidence, not you crying and moaning you are right. Go back to sleep eh - but remember, if you get drunk and have sex with 4 men they won't believe you when you say no to number 5 eh. So don't do it again!
No can mean no, yes or maybe. That is human life. You do not understand subtlety of sociolinguistics or paralinguistics or the existenc of grey areas. Fine. Say no when you are legless and have just serviced man number 4 - then you can be a victim too! Ahhh.
Goodbye vile disgusting liar trash girl Sara. Good riddance. My commiserations to your family and your blind boyfriend. Again you falsely accuse me of rape - if you said that to my face you'd get really hurt. Liar. You are a disgrace to women with your falsse accusations - no wonder noone believs raped women!I hope you pay for your manhating lies. You will.
Posted by CSG | 04.09.08, 18:10 GMT
I'm in one now thanks. The law is made by people who actully know what they're talking about.
Read very carefully, it may save your bacon: Non-consentual sex is rape. That is the law. the tough part is proving guilt/innocence. It is not your place to interpret someone else's request. You may end up in jail.
That is all I have to say on the matter. Luckily for me the law agrees with me.
Posted by Sara | 04.09.08, 15:56 GMT
Sara: you are totally wrong in your simplistic thinking: No does not always mean no - it can mean maybe - it can mean yes, I want more - it can mean no but later etc. Ever heard of subtext? Human nature? Arousal and temptation? No? Quelle surprise. You know you shouldn't but...
You should be utterly ashamed of yourself vile Sara for insinuating that anyone who disagree with your 1st year wimmins studies views is a closet rapist or supports rape. I very much doubt you'll ever have a loving relationship with a man because you hate them so much. You just like your power over men P-teasing and leading them on then deliberately saying no to use your power and make up for your insecurity and inferiority complex. You may get burnt one day if you fly too close to that sun and it will be your fault.
And again you try and make out I'm somehow unsuccessful (when I run a business and am a professional writer so come on here in breaks you saddo girlie).
Don't falsely accuse the doctor eh?
Posted by CSG | 04.09.08, 15:30 GMT
If there were men more intellegent and educated than me around here I would enjoy a good debate, but as it happens it seemt o be only you - who thinks that women are at fault if they say they don;t want to have sex.
No means no. End of. If you can't see that then you should be ashamed of yourself, as should your parents.
If a woman says no and someone takes that to mean yes or thinks she is being a p-teaser or decide that, quite frankly, they're going to force themselves upon her anyway. That makes them a rapist and it is about power.
I suggest you, too, stop using the second person singular in your comments - wouldn't want to be seen as a hyppocrite, would we?
Much as I love debating rape with you, your backward opinions are creeping me out. I'm getting the plaster off my leg tomorrow and going back to work so I wont have to listen to your crazy rantings anymore. No doubt you'll still be on here pretending you have a business.. Rushed off your feet with success, I see...
Posted by Sara | 04.09.08, 13:16 GMT
Sara - as per usual you make an objective matter personal with an ad hominem attack. I am NOT taking about me - I am talking generally. Geddit? Or do you just like lecturing men who are more educated and intelligent than you coz of your own insecurities?
Right, now you can debate properly then now I've told you the rules - but then when you get drunk you shouln't use men for money and you should behave better shouldn't you?
Bottom line is that whether something is rape or not is all a matter of perception and opinion. Bottom line is many women are at fault by creating a contect where they are raped.
Power is what women want when they make sill demands (no means no) or like to dangle men in the air to exert their power over them. Grow up, don't get blind drunk, treat men properly not like some P-teaser, then you won't get raped will you. Real world baby.
Posted by CSG | 04.09.08, 13:03 GMT
I wonder that no-one has pointed this out yet, but it's ironic that actually a lot of men have learned the lesson that no always means no (and I'm not talking about sex only). Listen to all the women who complain about "where have all the men gone"! At least some of them are simply considering it not worth the risk to stick their necks out.
Posted by A Tykhyy | 04.09.08, 13:00 GMT
' [People] very often find, in the absence of powerful collaborative evidence, that their word carries nmore weight than that of their fellow combatant.'
1) Do you perhaps mean 'corroborative'?
2) Translation: 'Other things being equal, all testimony is treated the same.' That is as it should be.
Posted by William Bapthorpe | 04.09.08, 11:57 GMT
Bottom line, CSG, is you can only take responsibility for _your_ actions, not someone elses.
No woman wants to be infanitilised, nor do they want to be raped. Stop assigning the blame to the victim. It is the rapist who is at fault. 100%
If he/she can't stop themselves then that is _their_ actions. Do what Jonanthan(?) said and take them out for an expensive meal and sneak out. Don't just carry on because you want the power, don't just assume no means yes. In both those cases that is non-consentual sex = rape.
Posted by Sara | 04.09.08, 10:37 GMT
Apology accepted, Kath, Thank you. I was snappy myself. Sorry.
Posted by Andrea | 04.09.08, 09:34 GMT
38 Comments