Sammy Lee: 'If you are constantly throwing cups then people switch off'
Brian Viner Interviews: Emerging from Big Sam's shadow, the new manager of Bolton Wanderers talks about his reputation as a nice guy, changing his team's style of play and how much he learnt from Sven Goran Eriksson
The fixtures computer has always had a sense of mischief, and if it wasn't going to bring Roy Keane's Sunderland to Old Trafford for the first game of the season, it was sure as hell going to bring Sam Allardyce's Newcastle United to the Reebok Stadium, not that Allardyce's successor as Bolton Wanderers manager, and his erstwhile assistant, wants people to get too wrapped up in the irony of Big Sam revisiting so soon. "Each and every game this season will have its own significance for me," says Sammy Lee.
There are various brands of Liverpudlian accents and Lee's is the kind so rapid that the end of one word gets swallowed by the beginning of the next.
It is an accent that suits his enthusiasm for life in general and football in particular. But will enthusiasm be enough? Bolton, fifth last season, are widely tipped for a relegation battle this time round. Does Lee know his odds on becoming the first Premiership manager to be sacked?
"No, but you can tell me, I'm sure," he says, with a grin.
I tell him I can't but that I'll be sure to check before I write up this interview, which takes place in a box overlooking the newly-relaid Reebok pitch on a squally summer's day. "Yeah, I may even have a look myself after this," he says. "I've never been a gambling man, actually. But hopefully they [the punters tempted by his price of 7/2, which makes him the second most likely casualty behind Wigan's Chris Hutchings in the eyes of the bookies] will lose their money."
I fancy that they might. I fancy that with many people, including plenty of Bolton fans, prophesying doom and gloom, Lee might just be one of the managerial successes of the season. Not that his debut as a Premier League manager augured well at Upton Park on May 5, against lowly West Ham, Bolton were 3-0 down inside 29 minutes. "It finished 3-1," he says. "We won the second-half."
Lee has a wry Scouse humour, which helped him to appreciate the chants of the West Ham faithful that day. Unused to seeing him on the touchline wearing a suit, thousands of them suggested vociferously that it came from the cut-price store Matalan. Having stood on the Kop as a boy watching Liverpool – "albeit with difficulty," he says, a self-deprecating reference to his diminutive stature – he appreciates the wit of a football crowd.
After all, it was his boyhood hero Ian Callaghan who once waited forlornly out wide with a man on the Kop getting increasingly frustrated, shouting "wing! wing! wing!", only for someone else to call out "will somebody answer that bloody phone!"
We'll come back to Liverpool's place in Lee's heart, but first Bolton: I'm told that he is keen to encourage a more attractive style of football from a team that, let's face it, became almost synonymous under Allardyce with grim functionality.
"The words 'more attractive' seem like a criticism of the previous regime, which I was a part of," he says. "What I would say is that the style of play is dependent on the personnel, and that I want the players to be more adaptable to different styles of play depending on the opposition. I want us to be more flexible, and if we do that we'll be less predictable."
Does he reject the charge that there was more pain than pleasure watching Allardyce's Bolton going about its business?
"Yes," he says. "I'd say there's a misconception about this football club." If so, it's a misconception shared by some seasoned judges of the game, but there's not much point pursuing this line of questioning, so let's try another. What's the latest on the troubled, troublesome Nicolas Anelka?
"Well, he's committed to this football club. He's signed a four-year contract, and I don't want to lose him. If an offer comes in that's good for him and good for the club then I'll listen to it, but I don't want to get rid of any quality players. I'm trying to build quality here, not diminish it."
Lee has been involved for years in trying to build quality, with Liverpool, Bolton and England, but always – except for his period in charge of England under-21s – as a number two or three. How does it feel to be stepping into the limelight after so long in the shadows? Is he anxious about it?
"Far be it from me to tell you about words, Brian, but 'anxious' is the wrong word. This is a massive opportunity for me and it's something I've always wanted to do. I am ambitious, and I see this as another step in trying to achieve my ambition." Which, ultimately, is what? To manage Liverpool, perchance? "At one time I suppose it was. But the people who know me know that my commitment to this football club is total."
All the same, he and another Liverpool old boy, Paul Jewell, would surely not tarry in throwing their hats into the ring were Rafa Benitez to be lured by Real Madrid? Imagine that, a toss-up for the Liverpool board between him and Jewell.
"Well, if it came to a toss-up that would be nice, because I'd be in with a 50-50 chance. I was a supporter, a player and a coach there, and you do tend to think 'maybe, just maybe'. But I wouldn't want that misconstrued. As I've said, I'm totally committed to Bolton Wanderers Football Club, and I'm excited by the chance to manage. It's the right time for me now. I've worked my apprenticeship, and it's been a very good apprenticeship.
"On a day-to-day basis I try to implement things I've learnt from Gerard Houllier, Patrice Bergues [Houllier's assistant], Sven Goran Eriksson, Roy Evans, Bob Paisley, Joe Fagan and Bill Shankly. If I can bring a little piece of them into my make-up I think I'll do OK."
It is odd hearing Eriksson's name alongside those of Paisley and Shankly, but of course his record as a club manager stands comparison with theirs, and Lee admits that he is looking forward to pitting his wits against the Swede, now masterminding the Manchester City revolution nearby.
"I hope they're weaker than Bolton, but it'll be a well-organised team under Sven, that's for sure. They will be well-prepared and very unified, because he engenders a great team spirit. I'm thrilled for him, I really am.
"He's a terrific coach, a terrific man, a terrific football person, and it's not for me to bang his drum, but I'll say to you that I don't feel people give him credit for being such a football person. I'm delighted for Tord Grip as well, another lovely man. He gave me an awful lot of guidance."
The benefit of being in the shadows was that Lee was out of the range of the brickbats thrown at Eriksson when his England team under-achieved. And under-achieve they emphatically did, not that Lee is willing to admit that the Eriksson tenure ended in failure.
"I wouldn't say that was fair, and I know people would argue, but if you speak to any of the boys and hear about the loyalty the man engendered... that alone means he should be termed a success. They didn't get to a World Cup final, but maybe it was an unrealistic aim." Meaning that the players weren't good enough? "No, it was a great squad. But fate deals you a hand; injuries and what have you, slices of luck. It was a great set of players, a great man in charge, events just conspired against us."
It would be interesting to know whether Lee privately endorses his own public conviction that England's only problem these past few years has been jolly bad luck, as if Eriksson ran over a black cat on his way to the office one morning. He is surely far too astute for such nonsense. On the other hand, some former members of Eriksson's team have been all too quick to knock, so the little man's enduring loyalty is commendable. And clearly he was a keen student of Sven and the art of management.
"I learnt from him that you can get points over in a number of ways. I was always a bit of a ranter and a raver, and sometimes that is required, but Sven and Gerard Houllier, in their calm, collected way, always managed to pass on whatever information they wanted to pass on. If you're constantly throwing cups then people switch off."
Go on Sammy, come clean. Have you ever thrown a cup? "Not yet. But after 29 minutes at Upton Park I was thinking what can I throw? No, not really. I was determined to go in at half-time and not have a tantrum. You only have a short space of time to address the problem.
"Having said that, I leave the door open for all kinds of emotions."
He is manifestly an emotional man, and whatever he says about every game being significant, walking under the "This Is Anfield sign" on his way to the visiting dug-out on December 1 will be a stirring experience. It is 32 years since he made his debut for Liverpool against Leicester City, which would have been a big enough day for a 17-year-old Koppite without scoring a goal. That he did, turned a dream into ecstasy.
"It was a freak goal, really. It went through Mark Wallington's legs. Kenny Dalglish always reminds me that I ran around shouting 'I've scored, I've scored', in total incredulity."
Lee didn't become a first-team regular until he was 21 – "once again it was a long apprenticeship, but it was worth the wait, I needed to learn the trade" – but when he did he was quickly embraced by the Anfield crowd for his whole-hearted commitment to the cause.
Those with long enough memories still hail his performance in the second leg of the 1981 European Cup semi-final in Munich, when he marked the great Paul Breitner out of the game, as one of the finest in a Liverpool shirt.
"Yeah," he recalls. "It wasn't really the Liverpool way but Bob Paisley asked me to do it on the day. I'd have been too nervous if I'd had to think about it."
His qualities as a player were never in doubt, but his qualities as a manager are as yet unknown. What does he think they are?
"Well, in the short time I've been here I've been labelled too nice. But I think you can be nice and still be a good manager. Nice shouldn't be misinterpreted as weak. This job is about respect more than anything. Mutual respect. And the discipline in the team comes from the respect they all have for each other."
Well said. But what does he have, what special gift, that sets him apart from all other Premiership managers?
His eyes twinkle. "Inexperience," he says.
Other managerial new boys starting their first full seasons in the Premier League
Billy Davies, Derby County
Driven, purposeful manager who took himself around Europe, including to Real Madrid, to learn from his peers when out of work after being sacked by Motherwell.
Used the experience wisely when he stepped up from coach at Preston under Craig Brown and steered North End into successive play-offs. Was then lured by Derby, Davies taking legal action to force Preston to release him.
Turned a failing team into contenders and won promotion in May's play-off final, then won a stand-off with the board over the right to appoint David Kelly as his assistant.
Lawrie Sanchez, Fulham
An intelligent, strong-minded player (he once asked John Fashanu 'outside' at Wimbledon) Sanchez has carried the same qualities into management.
Success at Sligo and with Wimbledon reserves led to a job at Wycombe. He took them into the FA Cup semi-final, but Wanderers were later relegated. Then came the dramatic transformation of Northern Ireland.
Fortunate to keep Fulham up when on trial last season he looks to have spent wisely. The question is whether his preference for long-ball football will work in the modern Premier League.
Sven Goran Eriksson, Man City
It is not hard to see why Manhester City appointed the former England coach as manager. He has won 15 honours since City's last trophy, the Football League Cup in 1976.
The haul includes European trophies with Gothenburg and Lazio, and domestic doubles in Sweden, Portugal and Italy. Eriksson has been out of club management for five years but should know how to operate in the Premier League.
Neither the Double, nor a European trophy, look feasible at City but most fans will regard Eriksson as a hero if he can just provide a trip to Wembley, a European foray or a few wins over United.
Roy Keane, Sunderland
It had always been envisaged that the former midfield enforcer would make a good manager, but few expected him to begin under Niall Quinn, a man who Keane called 'a muppet' in the Saipan stand-off with Mick McCarthy.
Even fewer thought Keane would prove to be a measured, under-stated boss. Not that anyone takes liberties, not after three players were left behind as a punishment for tardiness last season.
The results are as impressive as the style. Sunderland lost their first four games last season, then Keane arrived. They lost eight of the next 42 in rising from bottom to top to take the Championship title.
Chris Hutchings, Wigan Athletic
Paul Jewell's right-hand man and thus, according to chairman Dave Whelan, the obvious choice when Jewell stepped down in May.
Whelan obviously believes Hutchings has learned from his brutal experience at Bradford seven years ago when he also stepped up to replace Jewell. Hutchings did not survive until Christmas and Bradford went down.
One difference is that Hutchings will be picking the team, and signing players, himself. It was widely believed Bradford chairman Geoffrey Richmond influenced both back then. Nevertheless the former bricklayer is a bold choice.
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