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Haud mea culpa, domina! (As they say in primary school)

By Richard Garner, Education Editor, and Lewis Smith

Caesar

ALAMY

Caesar, who apparently was sic in omnibus

Canis studia domestici devoravit. Dog-based excuses for the non-delivery of homework are to become more erudite in state primary schools as Latin makes a comeback.

More than 60 state primaries will teach the classical language as part of a project aimed at making languages compulsory for all children from the age of seven. Those behind it say it is the best way of introducing children to language learning, particularly because it is the root of the five Romance languages (French, Italian, Spanish, Portugese and Romanian).

Peter Downes, a former president of the Association of School and College Leaders, said Latin was "an excellent vehicle for teaching about language structure as well as having obvious cross-curricular links to history and civilisation". He heads a project set up by the headteachers' union and the Esmée Fairbairn Foundation which is trying to persuade ministers to introduce children to a broader range of languages in primary schools and help them decide which ones they want to pursue in secondary schools.

It began by piloting its plans in a handful of schools in Cambridgeshire and has just expanded this to about 60. There is a campaign to make languages compulsory for seven to 11-year-olds in 2011, and Mr Downes has written to Sir Jim Rose, who led a government inquiry into the primary- school curriculum, arguing against his recommendation that schools should concentrate on just one or two languages. Under this project's proposals, children learn a range of languages – French, German, Spanish, Japanese, Punjabi and Latin.

In a letter to Sir Jim, Mr Downes argued: "It is strongly recommended that one of the languages is Latin. It may seem the 'odd man out' but it proved to be popular with pupils and teachers and a very good vehicle for teaching aspects of language such as word order, verb patterns, agreements, gender and language evolution.

"Provided there are good teaching materials available, there is no reason why Chinese, Urdu or others should not be included."

Most children learning Latin at primary school do so through the Minimus books, by Barbara Bell. They are a sort of comic-strip Roman soap with the central protagonist Minimus ("smallest"). Other characters include the members of a Roman household and their three slaves. The books aim to give a flavour of Roman life as well as an introduction to the language.

Mary Beard, professor of classics at Cambridge University, applauded the teaching of Latin in state primaries. "It's a wonderful way of being able to see how a language works," she said. "Latin opens up culture to the kids. Even for those who just learn a little and don't go on to read Virgil, I think it offers pleasure and linguistic skills."

She added, however, one cautious note: "My worry is not whether it's worthwhile for primary school children but whether they can go on with it in their next [state] school."

Latin translations:

Canis studia domestici devoravit - The dog ate my homework

Haud mea culpa, domina - It wasn't me, miss

Ita vero sed minime sed ita vero sed minime - Yeah but no but yeah but no

Nonne - Innit

Ubi est latrina? - Where is the toilet?

Stilus amitae meae - The pen of my aunt

Quo usque ludus meus tablulis scolasticis perrexit? - Where does my school come in the league tables?

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Comments

Latin teaches you English
[info]49niner wrote:
Monday, 9 November 2009 at 05:42 am (UTC)
I passed Latin O Level more than 40 years ago and never regretted it. Our grammar and many of our words come from this ancient language. It helped me learn English, and also with other Latin-derived European languages.

As a nation, we are very lazy learning other people's languages and being able to communicate with local people when we're abroad is often very useful. Latin is a good starting point, not only for English but for French, Spanish and Italian. Seeing as so many of us go to these countries on holiday or to work this knowledge given at a young age will be very useful for most children.
Re: Latin teaches you English
[info]liamvirgil wrote:
Monday, 9 November 2009 at 12:26 pm (UTC)
Our grammar doesn't come from Latin - English has very few grammatical features in common with Latin. There are very few inflections in English, Latin has them for case, number, person, tense and mood. English has a rather strict word order, Latin has a flexible one.

The real educational value of Latin is that for an English speaker to learn it he or she must understand terms like case, number, person, tense etc.
[info]publunch99 wrote:
Monday, 9 November 2009 at 06:11 am (UTC)
I just hope the way it is taught has improved since I was at school.
Latin in schools
[info]hutton28 wrote:
Monday, 9 November 2009 at 07:15 am (UTC)
The main reason for advocating the teaching of Latin in schools is to provide employment for teachers who can teach Latin! As for being useful as the root for other languages, why go the roundabout route when you can go direct? So many years of my life were wasted on learning Latin. Without that waste I could have learned far more useful things sooner, although I did eventually get my M.A.
butr not me!!
[info]orangiey wrote:
Monday, 9 November 2009 at 07:41 am (UTC)
I went to a grammar school in the 1980s where in the second year you could learn Latin OR German. I requested Latin and was refused as my French wasn't too good (only had studied it in the first year) and so was forced to do German which I hated. Surely being allowed to study Latin would have improved my French and the want to study would have been more productive!! I wish I'd had the chance and was so jealous of the girls in my school who would recite their Latin in the playground. I hope this plan to bring it back to school works as with learning languages from an earlier age...I suggust from day one of schooling at 4 or 5
Re: butr not me!!
[info]fag_ash_lil wrote:
Monday, 9 November 2009 at 02:33 pm (UTC)
Not at all sure about this one. I did Latin the second year of grammar school, a year after I started French and a year before German. I actually enjoyed it but would never suggest it is a question of either/or. Imaginative teaching of a modern foreign language I would have thought would be more likely to interest children, particularly if they opt for Spanish because so many Brits go there on holiday and it is much more of a global language than French, just look at how so many parts of Francophone Africa are now switching to English. Having said, that it does have more in common with English and of course France is also easy and cheap to get to for holidays and exchange visits.
Teaching language through culture and communication is, I thought, these days the accepted norm (that’s my route teaching English as a foreign language) which doesn’t means, as the dinosaurs insist, that you don’t “DO” grammar, far from it. It is all about motivating kids to like learning languages so they can talk to more people, enjoy more music, films and even chat rooms. I don’t think this is an option with Latin, even though admittedly it has had a popularity resurgence over the last decade.
The point about Latin roots to English words is equally true of modern Romance languages and hybrids like French, but the grammar issue is more contentious because a lot of what are now considered outdated grammar “rules” were only imposed to make this fantastically rich mongrel language conform artificially to Latin templates.
[info]dogsolitude_v2 wrote:
Monday, 9 November 2009 at 10:24 am (UTC)
canis in via latrat!

Caecilius est pater. Metella est mater. Grumio est coquus...

I learned Latin at school, and thoroughly enjoyed it. Much of this was due to a combination of our eccentric Latin teacher and the wonderful Cambridge Latin Course textbooks, with their stories about a family living in Pompeii.
Spam
[info]wongo93 wrote:
Monday, 9 November 2009 at 12:53 pm (UTC)
Time and time again on the Indy we get these spam posts, and no way of reporting them! Doesn't the Independent have moderators? If for no other reason that if the spammers are posting on threads like this, they're not paying advertising fees.
Re: Spam
[info]gorazdi wrote:
Monday, 9 November 2009 at 01:08 pm (UTC)
Quis custodiet ipsos Ofstedes?
Dog-based excuses for dog Latin
[info]mallamb wrote:
Monday, 9 November 2009 at 02:56 pm (UTC)
The subheading "Canis studia domestici devoravit" does not inspire confidence in this project. So much for the teaching of Latin and its implications for awareness of grammar.
Ut tibi imperator, ita fac . . . .
[info]fredscribe1 wrote:
Monday, 9 November 2009 at 08:08 pm (UTC)
Well, with our Latin master, we had to. But not as much as he would have wished, bless him, and one day he turned to us just as we were linguistically scrabbling across some wretched part of Gaul trying to bring provisions to the camp or the like he said, exasperated, that if we knew even some Latin it would help us with other world languages, such as, for example, English. He was of course splendidly correct. A dedicated master of the old school, he knew his Latin and his Latin writers by heart: think Albert Finney in Rattigan's 'The Browning Version.' Without reference to board or book, he could correct our mangled texts while scouring the room for one scintilla of interest on our spotty, greasy and no doubt odiferous faces. He could bring Caesar alive He even instructed us one day in new discoveries having been made (try that tense on for size!) in pronunciation. Ita se gessit ut speravi - that is, if I were a pupil again and had one once of sense. As an adolescent, of course, one doesn't. And he appeared to us to be an ancient (he was, after all, about thirty) sent from some fusty staff room just to torment us. To this day I undrape words in English I wouldn't otherwise know (and in French, too) by seeking out the Latin in the construct of the word. Just as he said I could on those long-ago dank, sweaty, fatigued Friday afternoons. One day someone reported that they'd seen him over the weekend TALKING TO A WOMAN! That he or any other teacher existed, or could exist, outside the confines of a classroom certainly had never occurred to us. We regarded him henceforth with awe. Imagine if - horrors! - he was actually human! Why, one asked in that more innocent age, would anyone waste time talking to a woman? So we had more respect for him, for a while, when he shouted at us 'Dic mihi quantra castra sint!' Different world, back then. I met him years later and addressed him, still, as 'Sir.' That's what one did. He didn't recognise me. Why should he? He'd led so many more spotty little horrors through the Gaulish woods, reinforced so many more camps, spoke in Caesar's voice as night fell and the raging tribes drew stealthily closer. I detested learning Latin. I was young and knew everything anyway. Ubi sint castra nescio, was all I could ever reply.
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Latin correction
[info]jflong wrote:
Tuesday, 10 November 2009 at 04:35 pm (UTC)
"Canis studia domestici devoravit" means "The dog ate the domestic person's studies". "The dog ate my homework" has to be "Canis mea studia domestica devoravit."
Back to primary school for you!
The good thing about studying Latin is that it teaches you to use language precisely.
Re: Latin correction
[info]mallamb wrote:
Wednesday, 11 November 2009 at 09:58 am (UTC)
My point in adducing this bit of dog Latin a few posts ago as evidence that the teaching of Latin does NOT apparently teach you to use even Latin correctly was on the contrary that it does not inspire confidence in this whole project.

You are probably right in thinking that merely adducing it was not enough, and feeling the need to give an explicit correction, but that is precisely because Latin, like everything else these days, is a subject the teachers merely pretend to teach and the learners only pretend to learn!

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