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‘I was victim of medieval torture,’ says freed Guantanamo detainee

Return of British resident after seven years fuels demands for Government to clarify role of MI5 agents

By Robert Verkaik, Law Editor

Binyam Mohamed, 30, a British resident who has been held at Guantanamo Bay formore than four years, steps from a plane at RAF Northolt, west London

PA

Binyam Mohamed, 30, a British resident who has been held at Guantanamo Bay formore than four years, steps from a plane at RAF Northolt, west London

The seven-year ordeal of a British resident who claims he was brutally tortured before being sent to Guantanamo Bay was brought to an end last night during an emotional reunion with his family.

Binyam Mohamed’s sister, Zuhra Mohamed, said she was “overcome with joy” as she watched her brother shuffle down the steps of the RAF transport plane which had carried him from the notorious US detention camp in Cuba to Northolt airfield, west London.

She said: “When I saw him he looked like he is OK, but he will plainly not be the man I remember all those years ago.” Almost as soon as Mr Mohamed had taken his first steps on British soil, the former computer and engineering student made it clear that he had unfinished business with both the US and UK governments. In a carefully worded statement he said he intended to hold to account those he blamed for his alleged rendition, torture and unlawful imprisonment: “I am not asking for vengeance; only that the truth should be made known so that nobody in the future should have to endure what I have endured.”

Last night Mr Mohamed’s release from US custody reignited calls for the British Government to publish secret documents that would shine further light on the involvement of MI5 agents in his interrogation and alleged torture.

William Hague, the shadow Foreign Secretary, and the Liberal Democrats’ foreign affairs spokesman, Ed Davey, joined with human rights groups in calling for the Government to come clean about British complicity in Mr Mohamed’s alleged torture. Mr Mohamed, wearing a cream pullover, navy-blue trousers, white trainers and a white cap pulled over the top of his head, was accompanied by Metropolitan Police officers as he shuffled down the steps of the military aircraft steps. Unaided, he was taken to an airport interview room and detained under Port and Border Controls, part of the Terrorism Act 2000.

After further questioning by UK Border Agency officials, who will now consider renewing his British residency status which expired in 2004, he was released without charge.

Family and friends were then granted access to Mr Mohamed, who will spend some time away from the media glare. The 30-year-old Ethiopian national, who came to Britain in 1994, was held in Karachi in 2002 by American and Pakistani secret agents before being allegedly sent to Morocco, where he says he was tortured. He is the first of 250 Guantanamo detainees to be transferred under a review ordered by President Barack Obama. Ms Mohamed, 38, who had flown from America to be reunited with her brother after more than 10 years apart, described last night the family’s own ordeal in trying to find out what had happened to him.

Ms Mohamed said in an interview with The Independent that she had been repeatedly told by the US and Pakistani governments that they had no information relating to her brother – whom she had spent three years living with in Ethiopia and then two more years in America.

After he disappeared in 2002, Ms Mohamed and her other brother, Benhur, went to the FBI to ask for help to find him.

She remembers: “They first said, ‘It looks like he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.’ But then they later denied knowing anything about him at all and suggested we contact the Pakistani government. When I spoke to the Pakistani embassy, they said they didn’t know where he was either. It was only when the Red Cross contacted us in 2004 that we were aware that Binyam had been taken to Guantanamo Bay. It is now clear that all the time they [the US government] were involved in his interrogation.”

Ms Mohamed described both countries’ attitudes as “shameful”. Behur Mohamed, who came to west London in search of his brother after his disappearance, said yesterday: “It was very disheartening to know that the British had something to do with his suffering.”

Mr Hague said it was “high time the UK Government asked the new US administration for permission” to release information relating to Mr Mohamed’s case which was withheld by the High Court earlier this month.

Medical treatment: Matters of the mind

*Binyam Mohamed is expected to be referred to the Medical Foundation for the Care of Victims of Torture, in London, which has helped other Guantanamo detainees deal with the psychological effects of their experiences. Alex Sklan, a clinician who has worked with torture survivors at the foundation for more than 10 years, says it is essential that Mr Mohamed is assessed as soon as possible. “Once out of the media spotlight, Mr Mohamed will need help in addressing the serious long-term consequences of his ordeal,” says Mr Sklan. “Long after they are released, survivors of torture can suffer with nightmares related to their ordeal, intrusive thoughts about their torture, outbursts of anger and intense feelings of hopelessness.”

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Binyam Mohamed and bleeding hearts
[info]michaelrhooper wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 12:21 am (UTC)
Why Binyam Mohamed is being received as a hero that survived Guantanamo is beyond me. He has undergone training in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and was caught with a false British passport. He said at one point that he had a drug problem which is why he went to Afghanistan...if he had a drink problem I suppose hewould he have gone to Scotland to see a distillery? Mr Mohamed was given temporary permission to reside in Britain, I would have thought he would have negated his right to stay. There are too many Civil Rights Lawyers making a fat living out of Mr Mohamed, Abu Qatada and his ilk. Many young British Muslims have been caught in Pakistan and Afghanistan, who go there for terrorist training or to wage war on the Nato forces...surely that is treason........I thought the penalty was execution. So now the stupid British public will have to foot the bill to keep him in the U.K.....Ah well what is one more considering the 500,00 illegal immigrants we have in the U.K.(Home Office estimate), not to mention the 1000's who are given political asylum every year.
Re: Binyam Mohamed and bleeding hearts
[info]kennyian wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 01:13 am (UTC)
you have hit the nail on the head,all of the people i speak to are of the same mind,when are the british going to say enough is enough,our great fathers told hitler where to go
Re: Binyam Mohamed and bleeding hearts - [info]famulla - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 09:46 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Binyam Mohamed and bleeding hearts - [info]rickraider - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 06:07 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Binyam Mohamed and bleeding hearts - [info]kuma2000 - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 08:02 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Binyam Mohamed and bleeding hearts - [info]spnfl - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 08:48 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Binyam Mohamed and bleeding hearts - [info]kuma2000 - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 11:06 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Binyam Mohamed and bleeding hearts - [info]eltesoroag - Thursday, 5 March 2009 at 04:34 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Binyam Mohamed and bleeding hearts - [info]mike4626 - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 09:39 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Binyam Mohamed and bleeding hearts - [info]jonny_socialist - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 12:13 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Binyam Mohamed and bleeding hearts - [info]michaelrhooper - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 12:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Binyam Mohamed and bleeding hearts - [info]eltesoroag - Thursday, 5 March 2009 at 04:39 am (UTC) Expand
Binyam
[info]repton4 wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 01:25 am (UTC)
Why do our Soldiers not receive a hero's welcome when they return for fighting islamic terrorists, yes thats right we don't want to offend the muslims of this country do we, David Miliband says he is pleased Binyam is back in the uk but 99% of the british people do not want him in the uk labour are providing fuel for the BNP fire,
Re: Binyam
[info]neil_mcgowan wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 09:24 am (UTC)
Maybe because they are mass-murdering torturing scum?
(no subject) - [info]getgordon - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 12:24 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Re-Binyam - [info]neil_mcgowan - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 06:01 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Binyam - [info]northerner_5969 - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 09:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Binyam - [info]neil_mcgowan - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 11:11 pm (UTC) Expand
shame
[info]finale_templar wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 01:43 am (UTC)
Couldn't he have been dropped off over the Atlantic on the way back?
Re: shame
[info]dreadmorayeel wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 02:27 pm (UTC)
Are you suggesting murdering a man?
A man who has had no trial,never been charged with anything?
I'm sure there are laws in this land for statements such as yours.
Ohh....don't tell me...you were being rhetorical right?
Dumb beyond words.
he has not been found guilty for anything
[info]balanced_mind wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 02:11 am (UTC)
This man was held in an american gulag for 7 years, and in that time they could not prove that he had done anything wrong, if they could, some how i dont think he would have been released without any charge.

so all of you shouting all kinds of lies against this man, can you prove he has participated in any terrorism? or received any training? err NO so shut up.

if the americans could not prove it how the hell are you find him guilty?... bigots
Re: he has not been found guilty for anything
[info]the_kiddie7 wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 07:29 am (UTC)
The only thing I find him guilty of, is not being British and having no right to be here. I am sick of reading British resident or former British resident. He is Ethiopian and should never have been brought back here. Let his own people look after his welfare because I for one don't care what happened or happens to him.
Re: he has not been found guilty for anything - [info]austincambridge - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 02:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: he has not been found guilty for anything - [info]valigia1 - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 08:53 am (UTC) Expand
Re: he has not been found guilty for anything - [info]mike4626 - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 11:06 am (UTC) Expand
Re: he has not been found guilty for anything - [info]totallypathetic - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 02:23 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: he has not been found guilty for anything - [info]eltesoroag - Thursday, 5 March 2009 at 04:30 am (UTC) Expand
Binyam Mohamed
[info]betty4810 wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 02:59 am (UTC)
I am profoundly sorry that my government mistreated you. There are many here in the U.S. who have agonized over the detainment and mistreatment of the prisoners in Guantanamo. Now that we have a new president, I am hopeful that this hateful place will be closed for good.
Re: Binyam Mohamed
[info]dudfivers wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 07:35 pm (UTC)
OUR government? he was under arrest in Pakistan , Morocco, and the USA. Since when were any of these countries under British jurisdiction? and he is NOT British, so why didn't Ethiopia help him? That's his country.
Re: Binyam Mohamed - [info]eltesoroag - Thursday, 5 March 2009 at 04:42 am (UTC) Expand
Bleeding Hearts
[info]loftwork wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 03:09 am (UTC)
The dismal braying of a few lynch mob dropouts cannot drown out the fact that Binyam Mohamed was denied the right to a trial, denied the right to know what he had been charged with, denied the right to tell his side of the story, denied the right to humane treatment while in a system of gulags which must have former KGB agents laughing over their vodka. So much for the moral high ground - now the US and UK are revealed as no better than the 'depraved commies' they used to lecture about human rights.

My heart bleeds for a system of justice which used to be the envy of the world and nemesis for the unjust. It bleeds for constitutional princxiples which have been trampled in the rush to revenge at all costs - mostly, at the expense of the innocent. It bleeds for the hundreds of thousands of people including our own servicemen killed unnecessarily to prop up the Big Lie. If that doesn't bother you then you're part of the problem.

We know what it takes to fight terrorism and win. It takes strength of will, courage, intelligence and integrity. Torture and internment have never worked and never will. Anyone who thinks they do has been deluded into forgetting the difference between Vietnam and Ireland.

The US got bombed by a bunch of Saudis, lost the plot, invaded a country which had nothing to do with the attack and spent 6 years trying to get out of the resulting mess, billions of dollars of high-tech military muscle bogged down in a country that doesn't even have any significant firepower. The UK, to its shame, went along for the ride. In this context, anything Binyam Mohamed did do or could ever have done would amount to nothing compared to the sheer grotesque homicidal stupidity of the governments involved. It is for that stupidity that Binyam has paid a sickening price. He's been denied a trial - give him his chance to proove the truth.
Britain's history of torture
[info]nellag wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 04:14 am (UTC)
It is typical of the British media that they report the experience of Binyam Mohamed as if it were some hitherto unknown blot on the nation's character.

In Malaya the British used and experimented with torture techniques. They honed their techniques in Aden, Cyprus, Kenya... They were found guilty of torture in N. Ireland and their media cheered when, after years of lying, they got the verdict changed to 'inhuman treatment'.

The British became recognized as experts in the techniques of torture and their government developed a niche business in instructing trainee torturers in other nations, notably the Gulf states.

The above goes back only fifty years. Previously, in their colonial days, they abused the indigenous populations of their colonies. International communications were such that they did so brazenly and with impunity. Certain native populations were allowed to enter parts of their native towns only if they did so crawling on their hands and knees...

Crocodile hand wringing and lies, lies, lies is what to expect in the Binyam Mohamed case. How unfortunate for him that he ever set foot in Britain. I doubt he will survive his experiences unmarked. I wish him well even while I am aware that none of Britain's N. Irish torture victims survived beyond their 50's.

The actions sanctioned by the recent American administration are unspeakable. Will the Obama administration do better. I wonder.

Re: Britain's history of torture
[info]dudfivers wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 07:37 pm (UTC)
well, he wanted to come here , and lied to get in. He liked the benefits and housing. but not enough to not want to learn how to blow people up here, or fight against our government. Why not send him to Ethiopia? He IS an Ethiopian.
war on terror? war on freedom!!!
[info]panic2009 wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 04:38 am (UTC)
when are the sheeple going to finally get it? instances like this are basically attempts by these NWO facists to see how far they can push us and test the boundaries. every day we hear more and more about erosion of our liberties and because of this MI5/CIA/Mossad/SIS instigated war on terror, joe public is being frightened to death to accept it. labour would like nothing more than a reign of whitehall terror echoing the policies of the east german stasi.
this is our country, not theirs. we didnt even vote their leader in. the last one turned tail and ran while he could and now, we have a government who wants to deport our citizens to the US for trial without any evidence being given (its law and been signed) and be complicit in torture of our own citizens on foreign soil. WHAT IS GOING ON???????

rout these 5th columns. they have sold us down the river. we are not the USA. we are british and better than this rabble we call a government who deem bankers their demigods over decent hard working people. wasnt labour once a party for the workers?

nobody tortures people in my name. its not acceptable no matter who they are. and for all the idiots on here bleating about this man being a terrorist, if they had one shred of evidence he would have been convicted. as would the 100s of other whose lives have been destroyed by these unjust detentions. why were they denied any form of legal representation? a voice? this 9-11/afghanistan/iraq/war on terror must be the one of the biggest cover ups of all time. none of it adds up unless you read the MSM propoganda then all the pieces of the puzzle fit nicely.

time for heads to roll
Wrong place at the wrong time
[info]rasputin1973 wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 05:02 am (UTC)
Before we all start jumping on the band wagon, let's have some independent medical evidence that he was tortured. Especially as he claims to have had razor cuts to his genitals. If the Security Services have been involved in torture, then those responsible should be brought to account.

On the other hand it brings in to question why was this man in Karachi! He came to this country from Ethiopia to study on a student visa, he left the UK under his own free will, so what was he doing in Pakistan? We'll probably never know the truth!
Re: Wrong place at the wrong time
[info]jo_sparkles wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 08:48 am (UTC)
Precisely rasputin1973.
Muslim terrorist and their rights strikes again.
[info]eltesoroag wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 05:12 am (UTC)
A Muslim...whinning and crying about torture, now there's an OXYMORON.
Mohamed
[info]thomasth wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 05:27 am (UTC)
Whether Mohamed was abhorrent, an imigrant, or anti-British is beside the point.

The principal of a fair trial and no detention without it must be upheld - we can't have the state deciding who is a suspect, and arbitrarily incarcerating them and subjecting them to torture. For hundreds of years we did this and now look back on those far off days with horror.
Re: Mohamed
[info]victormc wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 06:23 am (UTC)
You mean just like the terrorists and suicide bombers give their victims ...that sort of freedom do you?
Re: Mohamed - [info]lady_icedragon - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 09:03 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Mohamed - [info]dreadmorayeel - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 02:29 pm (UTC) Expand
Send him packing
[info]rickraider wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 06:06 am (UTC)
Send this man of evil back. How does an Ethiopian asylum seeker get the funds to go on a "sightseeing tour" of dangerous parts of Pakistan and into a war zone in Afghanistan? How does he get hold of a false passport to try and escape back to Britain? Taking him back is WRONG,WRONG,WRONG, he is our enemy.
MI5 and MI6 out of control
[info]alexweir1949 wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 06:07 am (UTC)
December 2007 MI6 ordered the assassination of the (white) Scottish inventor of a fraud-proof voting system for the Third World. Fortunately the 3 attempts over 5 days in Conakry, Beirut and Aleppo were all bungled. British Intelligence is clearly out of control. The big question is also to what extent the Civil Servants and the Politicians were and are also involved? These are very bad and sad times for one of the so-called cradles of democracy. Something has to be done - an end to cover-ups and slaps on the wrist. Some firings, resignations (to the Highest Level) and jail terms will be appropriate. Mr Alex Weir, Harare, Zimbabwe
Re: MI5 and MI6 out of control
[info]getgordon wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 12:37 pm (UTC)
How can you say MI5 or MI6 are out of control these people put their lives on the line
to help the British isles stay safe,and if they were out of control there would be a
few politicians and bankers very nervous.
Re: MI5 and MI6 out of control - [info]dudfivers - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 07:39 pm (UTC) Expand
Binyamin Mohamed
[info]victormc wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 06:16 am (UTC)
Ethiopian citizen, sometime 'resident' in Britain from 1996. Convert to Islam. Decided to go to Afghanistan and Pakistan on a false passport and 'see how the Taliban lived' Now we have this piece of scavenging garbage back on the taxpayers payroll. So nothing wrong here then, quite a normal case with the bleeding hearts bleeding all over the place. Routine Britain 2009.
THE DESTRUCTION OF THE RULE OF LAW
[info]christoforides wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 06:35 am (UTC)
Guantanamo was always illegal - by US and International Law. And this was merely a symptom of a deeply systemic malaise. Unfortunately, the world has has suffered the worst governments in London and Washington in living memory. Nixon said - "If the President does it, it's not illegal." Well ... he found out otherwise. Bush/Rumpsfeld/Wolfovitz and Blair/Brown considered that they could do as they liked without regard to law or decency - now we are beginning to pay for it - morally and economically withour protective Institutions all but hobbled or destroyed in effectiveness so far as they are concerned with access to justice and protection of the citizen. Our standing at home and abroad has been ruined and our own civil rights in our own country destroyed as monumentally demonstrated by the murder of Charles de Menezes on the Tube with no-one being brought to account. That was a matter for trial of all concernced and the decision of Judge and Jury as to guilt and any extenuation for any of those concerned - not by retired Coroner lawyer appointed by the administration to find that 'Unlawful killing is not a verdict available in this case". [So the Police can shoot to death an innocent man on the Tube and this is not 'an unlawful killing' - how can that be so??] It is so because the United Kingdom has become a Marxist-Leninist-Fascist Police state - with mere lip-service to 'human rights' for everyone except for our own citizens. We desperately need a written constitution and proportional representation for both Houses of Parliarment - thesee would not be a cure but at least a major start - it these reforms are not introduced nothing less than guilt a revolution becomes probable.

ROBERT A CHRISTOFORIDES
Re: THE DESTRUCTION OF THE RULE OF LAW
[info]panic2009 wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 07:41 am (UTC)
victormc

if we were invaded by a foreign entity and you rebelled would you be a terrorist or a freedom fighter? cuts both ways you know. the citizens of our shores are in a no win situation. our troops do the dirty work of the corporate elite (not the fault of our boys in unifrom) around the world and we have to suffer the hatred of the oppressed people. it has never worked and never will. our arses are getting kicked in afghanistan, will continue to get kicked (as everyone who has tried it has) and will leave eventually with our tail between our legs. meanwhile heroin production and distribution from these lands to our own shores has gone through the roof since we ousted the taliban. tells you something doesnt it. ie who is responsible for many of the addicts on our streets. the whole thing was/is a scam from start to finish.
Re: THE DESTRUCTION OF THE RULE OF LAW - [info]victormc - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 10:44 am (UTC) Expand
Re: THE DESTRUCTION OF THE RULE OF LAW - [info]panic2009 - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 12:31 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: THE DESTRUCTION OF THE RULE OF LAW - [info]victormc - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 08:02 pm (UTC) Expand
MI5 and MI6 out of control
[info]alexweir1949 wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 07:01 am (UTC)
December 2007 MI6 ordered the assassination of the (white) Scottish inventor of a fraud-proof voting system for the Third World. Fortunately the 3 attempts over 5 days in Conakry, Beirut and Aleppo were all bungled. British Intelligence is clearly out of control. The big question is also to what extent the Civil Servants and the Politicians were and are also involved? These are very bad and sad times for one of the so-called cradles of democracy. Something has to be done - an end to cover-ups and slaps on the wrist. Some firings, resignations (to the Highest Level) and jail terms will be appropriate. Mr Alex Weir, Harare, Zimbabwe
In a carefully worded statement
[info]the_kegs wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 08:18 am (UTC)
'he intended to hold to account those he blamed for his alleged rendition, torture and unlawful imprisonment'. No sooner off the plane than issuing threats and still we let the bastard in.
Re: In a carefully worded statement
[info]rabeea wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 02:30 pm (UTC)

Yes good for him, he deserves to bring to account the perpretrators, who are responsible for the despicable crimes of humanity against him, but you are even more despicable for having no compassion for another human being..
Re: In a carefully worded statement - [info]the_kegs - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 03:21 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: In a carefully worded statement - [info]rabeea - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 04:04 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: In a carefully worded statement - [info]the_kegs - Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 05:40 pm (UTC) Expand
What's wrong with Ethiopia?
[info]ptstroud wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 08:22 am (UTC)
Why was this man not flown direct to Ethiopia? He claims he went to Afghanistan to kick a drug habit. Just about as credible as an alcoholic going to Munich in October to dry out.
So who is open to reason ?
[info]campbell7000 wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 08:46 am (UTC)
A Christian visiting Zimbabwe to "see for himself" would not be branded a Mugabe supporter.

The immediate assumption would be that he probably went to help the poor, bore a well, set up a clinic. The fact is, the Taleban are Pushtuns of the "Deobandi" school, who only became politicised when Afghanistan went "Mad Max" in the aftermath of the war with the Soviets - the last great battle of the cold war and the one that left America with hyperpower status. However, facts mean little to ignoramuses who like to invent devils they can righteously hate and then seek to slaughter.

I personally know quite a few Pushtun Deobandis - and some are "way over the top", and some are not and actively seek support to redress the excesses of their over zealous kinsmen - a process for which they particularly need the active support of other Muslims. Like it or not, this is the process by which the are likely to change and progress. By interaction with others, in the main more broadly educated Muslims, who can help them move forward. Anyone who visited Afghanistan before 9 11 - or even maybe afterwards - could well have gone there for this reason - the Pushtuns are approachable people, even if they disagree with you - and they are not all one and the same in outlook. Ask Yvonne Ridley. The Taliban, remember, for all their faults, for which, like all others, they should be held accountable, stopped all opium production, and restored order when there was gunpoint extortion on every highway.

The worst of them are nothing compared with the murderous drug barons and warlords that "we" have gone into cahoots with. Do you think any of them would accept the opinion of others on their barbaric murder, extortion and rape? A westerner would most likely be quietly ignored. A third world Muslim would probably get sold to the Americans.

Bleeding ignoramuses - can you manage to read all this?
[info]campbell7000 wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 08:48 am (UTC)
A Christian visiting Zimbabwe to "see for himself" would not be branded a Mugabe supporter.

The immediate assumption would be that he probably went to help the poor, maybe bore a well, set up a clinic. The fact is, the Taleban are Pushtuns of the "Deobandi" school, who only became politicised when Afghanistan went "Mad Max" in the aftermath of the war with the Soviets - the last great battle of the cold war and the one that left America with hyperpower status. However, facts mean little to ignoramuses who like to invent devils they can righteously hate and then seek to slaughter.

I personally know quite a few Pushtun Deobandis - and some are "way over the top", and some are not and actively seek support to redress the excesses of their over zealous kinsmen - a process for which they particularly need the active support of other Muslims. Like it or not, this is the process by which the are likely to change and progress. By interaction with others, in the main more broadly educated Muslims, who can help them move forward. Anyone who visited Afghanistan before 9 11 - or even maybe afterwards - could well have gone there for this reason - the Pushtuns are approachable people, even if they disagree with you - and they are not all one and the same in outlook. Ask Yvonne Ridley. The Taliban, remember, for all their faults, for which, like all others, they should be held accountable, stopped all opium production, and restored order when there was gunpoint extortion on every highway.

The worst of them are nothing compared with the murderous drug barons and warlords that "we" have gone into cahoots with. Do you think any of them would accept the opinion of others on their barbaric murder, extortion and rape? A westerner would most likely be quietly ignored. A third world Muslim would probably get sold to the Americans.

Re: Bleeding ignoramuses - can you manage to read all this?
[info]totallypathetic wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 01:10 pm (UTC)
Why did you post it twice? What purpose? And why did you change the name?
And you think we are all ignoramuses' do you?

So I get it, because many of the British people(incidentally footing the bill for Binyam) are dubious about the circumstances, we're ignoramuses are we?

I tell you what, let's change date shall we? How about if we go back to 1943 and WW2. Now let's change Binyam(a Muslim) with Friedrich a German from Norway. Now allied troops find Friedrich fleeing occupied Belgium, on a false passport, trying to get back into the West where he had applied for Asylum from the Nazis. Now, why was he there, if he wasn't working for the British/Allied Forces secret services? You don't leave the country of Asylum to go to the land occupied by those who you're running from do you?

Let's get things into perspective shall we? I think firstly you need to read the Qur'an, hadith and Sira. I especially recommend the Sira, so you can find out about the Life and Actions of Muhammad the "holy prophet" of Islam(even though he killed hundreds himself). From there you will then understand why Islam does what Islam does and what is asked of Muslims by their faith in order to fulfil the wishes of Muhammad and Allah.
You will find that the Muslim, where ever they are to overthrow the Infidel and take that land for Islam.
This debate is far too long to go into and really I have no desire to delve deeper in the Islamic Death Cult, but you miss so much in your diatribe.

Binyam is not British. He was in Guantanamo for a reason, being a Muslim in a war zone, against the infidel. He was found trying to escape into the West on a false passport. He was known to have been in an Afghani Taliban training camp. He was no doubt plotting the deaths of the soldiers, from the country that has given him asylum.
Forget a trial, his actions prove his guilt and if he should go to trial then that is the business of the Ethiopian government and the burden of the Ethiopian tax payers, not me.

And last but not least, do you really think we were all born yesterday? "But he's innocent, he said so....he said he's been tortured...(as the dollar signs go kerching, in Clive Stafford Smiths' eyes at the thought of millions coming his way from the British taxpayer as they fund the defence of an Islamic terrorist)"

This whole episode is despicable. I have a far better idea: Remove him from the UK, he's free now. Send him to Ethiopia, where he's probably wanted for terrorist attacks against Christians(yes, one of the few African countries that never submitted to Islam and Sharia Law), let the government deal with him. We need to wash our hands clean of him. You also forget this angers the British even more. The whole case stinks.
Guantanamo detainee
[info]big_sal21 wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 08:52 am (UTC)
Binyam Mohamed
is not a citizen he is not a resident therefore he is of no consequence and no interest to the UK - he merely lived here for few years - i really do not care bout an Ethiopian citizen in American or an another nations detention

it is pure appeasement of the Muslim/ civil liberties faction in the Labour party - what about the UK citizen /ex soldier (Mann) who is being kept in Horrific condition in Equatorial Guinea - extradited illegally from Zimbabwe - yes he was involved in Coup plot
Are we supposed to feel sorry for the guy?
[info]ng400 wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 09:12 am (UTC)
Rest assured, in many Arab/Islamic countries it's the norm. The US and the UK should not sink to that low, but you can't fight a war against medieval people only with modern and conventional means.

In the meantime, he's back in good ole tolerant Britain, striving like so many others of his ilk, to undermine the way of life that is allowing him to undermine it. hurrah.
Best wishes Binyam
[info]dkayedon wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 09:18 am (UTC)
Go easy on being away from Cuba, you have been in an intitution for so long. Do something simple; learn to cook, soup is easy, then even go shopping for one or two items. And go easy on the therapy, find out what 'your normal' is.
We need young people in the UK, if only to help pay for my pension. Dont get upset with idiots of "keep Britain British" type. There is no such animal.
Binyam Mohamed and bleeding hearts
[info]nuhim172 wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 09:19 am (UTC)
hmm...what an ignorant thing to say. Clearly if he had been guilty of anything he would be been reditioned from Cuba to an eatern European country for more questionine (ahem..i meant torture russian style). Clearly the guy's innocent whether he has a right to stay in the UK is another matter. As for the armed forces not receiving a hero's welcome...I think you don't know the half of it. I live near a strong military establishment whenever the boys return theres always a parade. Please stop being so ignorant.
[info]brinksman wrote:
Tuesday, 24 February 2009 at 09:22 am (UTC)
This is all a bit of a sick joke. The British have tortured people for years. Just look at what they did in the North of Ireland. So stop pretending to be shocked. It just isn't working.
[info]hr67dfffnj wrote:
Wednesday, 25 February 2009 at 12:23 am (UTC)
British soldiers capturing British muslims fighting us in Afghanistan, are being shot. So dont panic people.

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