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Apostrophe catastrophe for city's street signs

By Matthew Cooper

Birmingham City Council has ruled that apostrophes should not feature on its road and street signs. The decision, which the authority hopes will draw a line under decades of dispute, follows a review to establish whether the possessive punctuation mark should be restored to place names such as Kings Norton and Druids Heath.

Martin Mullaney, who leads the city's transportation scrutiny committee, conceded that the new city-wide policy would upset a lot of residents.

But he stressed that the decision not to reintroduce apostrophes, which began to disappear from Birmingham's road signs in the 1950s, had been taken in light of several factors, including the need for consistency and the cost of changing existing signage.

"We are constantly getting residents asking for apostrophes to be put back in and as a council we have got to make a decision one way or another," Mr Mullaney said.

"Both the Plain English Society and the Plain Language Commission have said that there is no rule in Britain with regards to possessive apostrophes in place names."

Mr Mullaney's view was not shared by John Richards, the founder and chairman of the Apostrophe Protection Society: "It seems retrograde, dumbing down really. It is setting a very bad example."

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Apostrophe catastrophy
[info]gordski wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 12:50 am (UTC)
Another nail in the coffin of our language! The popularity of txt spk and rising tide of non-English speakers in the UK combine, together with plain laziness, to further erode the richness of our native tongue.

English should be made up to a Grade I Listed Language in order to protect its vesitges!
A monument to Brummie Ignorance
[info]neil_mcgowan wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 05:48 am (UTC)
And Fat Gordy wanted a Museum of Britain???

This decision is a fitting tribute to a nation of illiterate knuckledraggers. Can't write their own language without elementary errors! Onwards boldly down the plughole with New Labour. No other country IN THE WORLD would tolerate spelling place-signs wrongly.

These two stories highlight what's wrong with Britain. Idiotic illiteracy cannot be corrected because it costs too much money - but there's a bottomless pit of money for knuckledragging sport-jock Olympic events.
Re: A monument to Brummie Ignorance
[info]goodboy09 wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 09:00 am (UTC)
New Labour can't be blamed for this one. Self-appointed Chief Idiot in Birmingham, Councillor Martin Mullaney, is a Liberal Democrat, seemingly intent on bringing illiteracy to Birmingham and shame on his party at the same time.
Illiteracy.
[info]the_kegs wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 08:29 am (UTC)
Why not just make them all in 'text talk', it's all most of the under twenties understand anyway and it's not getting any better. Of course, we could always do what the septic's do and shorten everything so as to make it incomprehensible; 'Geo Wash Mem Pkwy Blvd'!
Druid's or Druids'?
[info]andrea_2 wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 03:03 pm (UTC)
How many Druids were there? Is the question which should first be asked before shoe-horning the apostrophe onto the sign. You can bet your last penny that if the powers that be decided to allow the apostrophe they wouldn't stop to ask if only one lucky Druid owned the Heath, or whether there was a co-operative of Druids. (I'm pretty certain that co-operative is not the collective name for Druids).
The same with King's Norton (my apostrophe there). I'm not sure what a Norton is but how many kings possessed it in the past?

People who think that the humble apostrophe is unimportant have no idea how confusing the English language would be without it. For example: Fiddlers Well become a statement on his health rather than a statement regarding his ownership of a hole in the ground filled with water. The two things could not be more different and only that tiny little apostrophe tells you which it is. Saves so much time when you're standing there wondering if you should buy a bunch of grapes or fetch a bucket.

I deal with Masters Degree students, some of whom regularly hand me work which is full of grammatical errors. And given that it is a Creative Writing degree it is more than a little disheartening.
Re: Druid's or Druids'?
[info]oldskald wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 09:26 pm (UTC)
I believe the collective noun for a group of druids is a "college", however I may be in error...

We should also ask if the orginal name might have been Druid Has Heath....
The obvious solution
[info]bad_english wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 03:10 pm (UTC)
If cost is an issue, why don't Birmingham City Council simply commandeer the tens of thousands of "greengrocers' apostrophes" that blight our landscape and insert them into road signs in need? There is an endless supply which is replenished daily by eager tradesmen and women selling carrot's, dvd's and haircut's.
[info]cradled_scorn wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 03:33 pm (UTC)
I suppose it's simply easier for idiots to cope if that which they don't understand is removed from their world. Even in my English literature class (A Level), there was often an apostrophe that must have fallen from the board and hidden, or one that might have fallen the day before and found its way back in the next lesson and clung to anything it could'. Ridiculous. With government approval and so many companies now incapable of describing their products, it's getting on for being useless to learn how to be right.
Sweet jesus on a bike!!!
[info]jonny_socialist wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 04:32 pm (UTC)
Do people have nothing better to do with their lives than campaign for the re-introduction of APOSTRAPHES???? These people should find something worthwhile to do with their lives.
Re: Sweet jesus on a bike!!!
[info]andrea_2 wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 05:05 pm (UTC)
You slam the use of apostophes but are a bit self-indulgent when it comes to question marks.
Re: Sweet jesus on a bike!!!
[info]mudwump wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 08:31 pm (UTC)
jonny_socialist

Punctuation is a courtesy to the reader. But since you can't be bothered to spell-check your post and include profanity in the title of your post it is evident that you do not value good manners or respect for others.
Pathetic
[info]chriswr wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 06:26 pm (UTC)
What astounds me is that the rules for use of apostrophes are so simple, yet so many people simply can't be bothered learning them. Instead a useful grammatical tool is tossed aside to cater for ignorance and laziness. And I'm tired of hearing that this is just language evolving. Evolution is supposed to be for the better!
Apostrophe catastrophe
[info]drdavidwheeler wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 07:14 pm (UTC)
Should not that be "Birminghams"?
od(')s bodikins!
[info]vida960 wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 07:29 pm (UTC)
Sorry andrea_2, I can't follow your Fiddlers Well example. Whether it means he's healthy or that the well is his property, it needs an apostrophe. Without one, it means neither; with one, the confusion remains but the meaning will be clear from the context. Thus the case that apostrophes avoid ambiguity is not always valid. I hope you'll explain this to your creative writers ;-)

I think two issues are being mixed up here. Of course the apostrophe is vital in everyday written English, but with place names the issue is not clear cut. Plenty of places are conventionally spelt without one: Earls Court, Palmers Green, Marks Tey. Others, like St John's Wood, do have one. Two-part names don't have to make grammatical sense: Chipping Norton doesn't have to be interpreted as the Norton that chips, and nor does Kings Norton need to be seen as the Norton of a King. It's just two words. I'd suggest that we can live with it, and save our ire for better causes.
Re: od(')s bodikins!
[info]ridger25 wrote:
Saturday, 31 January 2009 at 01:12 am (UTC)
Exactly, my college was known as Peter Symonds', but dropped the apostraphe recently [one imagine to the horror of the "Apostrophe Protection Society"] to become Peter Symonds.

Yes a subtely different meaning, but it saved many the confusion of whether to put the apostraphe in or not - or even where the apostrophe went [it could be a Mr Symond!].

Now it's just plain, and nice and easy that way. As Mr or Miss Vida960 said: save our ire for better causes!
the what now?
[info]ridger25 wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 08:45 pm (UTC)
"founder and chairman of the Apostrophe Protection Society"
Have people's lives become that mundane and boring they are resorting to this??
As a student I despair, i really do. I think i'm going to now go on an irresponsible binge drinking session and wild party to celebrate the end of exams, to help balance out the immense dullness of Mr. Richards.

Poor man. He's one step away from taking up golf.
Re: the what now?
[info]h_freeborn wrote:
Friday, 30 January 2009 at 10:49 pm (UTC)
The "Apostrophe Protection Society" is exactly the sort of thing that makes me proud to be British.
Re: the what now?
[info]lisas_cat wrote:
Monday, 2 February 2009 at 11:55 am (UTC)
And ridger25 is one step away from not being employed by any half decent company if he doesn't value correct grammar. Having worked in HR and dealt with many vacancies for which there were hundreds of applications, let me inform all you students who will be looking for work in the next few years, my favoured method of separating the potential from the chaff was to bin every application with incorrect grammar in the covering letter.

So learn to use apostrophes correctly, or you needn't bother including a CV!
Re: the what now?
[info]ridger25 wrote:
Monday, 2 February 2009 at 12:15 pm (UTC)
1. Frankly, if you're that much of a grammar nazi when reading quickly written internet comments, i'd hate to think what you're like in real life...
2. As indicated above, this was written at an unsociable hour when I read the article, I wasn't in the mood to proof read...
Skitt's Law
[info]ildhund wrote:
Saturday, 31 January 2009 at 12:21 am (UTC)
andrea-2 has probably discovered Skitt's Law by now. The one that says if you proceed to criticize a spelling mistake in a Usenet post, you will invariably make one yourself. I do hope her students are reading for a Master's Degree.
St James's Park
[info]gn_16 wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 02:06 am (UTC)
What about St James's Park? I was recently in London and noticed this on the tube map! Interesting.

http://www.royalparks.org.uk/parks/st_james_park/

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