Civilian death soldiers 'not just few bad apples'
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Independent Minds
The British soldiers responsible for the death of an Iraqi detainee were not just "a few bad apples", a public inquiry heard today.
Hotel receptionist Baha Mousa, 26, died in UK military custody in Basra, southern Iraq, in September 2003 after being subjected to humiliating abuse.
British troops in Iraq routinely used interrogation methods banned by the Government in 1972 and did not think they were illegal, the inquiry into his death was told.
Rabinder Singh QC, counsel for Mr Mousa's family and other Iraqis detained with him, said: "This case is not just about beatings or a few bad apples.
"There is something rotten in the whole barrel."
The inquiry has already heard how UK troops subjected Mr Mousa and his fellow detainees to abuse, including making them scream in an "orchestrated choir" and forcing one to dance like Michael Jackson.
It was also played a short video showing Corporal Donald Payne screaming obscenities at the hooded Iraqi prisoners, including Mr Mousa, calling them "apes".
Mr Singh said: "The official version of events was that nothing on that video was in fact illegal.
"What we saw on that video was a soldier trying to implement official policy, forcing detainees to get back into stress positions when they were clearly moaning and unable to maintain those positions.
"They are all shown hooded, again in accordance with orders, and again illegally."
Soldiers from the former Queen's Lancashire Regiment arrested Mr Mousa and the other detainees at Basra's Ibn Al Haitham hotel in the early hours of 14 September, 2003 and took them to Battle Group Main camp, known as BG Main.
There they were subjected to "conditioning techniques", including being forced to maintain painful "stress positions", hooding and deprivation of sleep and food, the inquiry has heard.
These methods had been banned 30 years earlier following their use in Northern Ireland.
One of the detainees recalled hearing Mr Mousa scream: "Oh my God, I'm going to die, I'm going to die. Leave me alone, please leave me alone for five minutes."
Mr Mousa died at about 10pm on 15 September, having sustained 93 separate injuries, including fractured ribs and a broken nose.
Mr Singh said: "One of the striking features of the terrible events of BG Main in September 2003 is that the abuse did not take place in a secret location behind closed doors.
"The temporary detention facility (TDF) was open to the outside. Many people must have seen or heard what was going on. Many seem to have visited the TDF."
He went on: "This gives rise to serious questions about the professionalism of the outfit and whether the culture was one of impunity.
"It also gives rise to serious questions about the capacity of the regiment's members to question and challenge abuse."
Mr Mousa's 22-year-old wife had died of cancer shortly before his death, meaning his two young sons, Hussein and Hassan, were orphaned.
Cpl Payne became the first member of the British Armed Forces to be convicted of a war crime when he pleaded guilty to inhumanely treating civilians at a court martial in September 2006.
He was dismissed from the Army and sentenced to one year in a civilian jail.
Six other soldiers who faced the court martial were all cleared on all counts in March 2007.
The Ministry of Defence agreed in July last year to pay £2.83m in compensation to the families of Mr Mousa and nine other Iraqi men mistreated by British troops.
David Barr, counsel for the Ministry of Defence, said the "appalling" behaviour of British soldiers in the case "disgusted" the Army.
He told the inquiry: "It is with huge regret that the Ministry of Defence acknowledges the way in which some of those techniques were used on Baha Mousa and those detained with him.
"The mistreatment of the detainees went further than the application of these prohibited conditioning techniques.
"They were clearly subjected to brutal violence as well. Conditioning techniques alone do not cause such injuries.
"The brutality was completely unacceptable. It has stained the reputation of the British Army."
Cpl Payne's barrister, Michael Topolski QC, said the former soldier hoped that the inquiry would provide a "clearer and fuller picture" of what happened.
Mr Topolski said: "Donald Payne has accepted and he does accept that he violated his duty to those detainees.
"For that, through us, now without hesitation he wishes to publicly apologise to each of them and in particular to the family of Baha Mousa."
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Comments
This is how troops act in all armies, and the brits are no different.
I believe that its not just the torture of captives, its also the indiscriminate killing of civilians in what the army would consider as a battle scene - they would put it down to collateral damage. You can imagine it, soldier walks down the street, a few civilians come out of their house - shoot or dont shoot - this not a TV commercial - so shoot just to be on the safe side, especially if you think no one is watching.
Much of this activity has been filtered out in US and UK media. But its no wonder the Iraqi and Afghans population have no love for their brutal occupiers.
Dishonest phrases such as "conditioning techniques" help pave the way for this kind of behaviour, and the biggest stain on the army deriving from this enquiry is its repeated use by the counself for MoD. I see no mention of the senior officers and their MoD counterparts who, by omission, absence and dishonest use of language made this inhumanity possible.
How can we expect these soldiers to act responsibly and challenge the abuses, when they are very young and inexperienced and know only what the army tell them and behave how the army tell them. Most have been in the army since they left school and only know what the army tell them. I've been told by squadies the reason for the Iraqi invasion was because Iraq was responsible for 911. This is what their officers tell them. I'd like to know how many squadies read the Independant, I bet most read the Sun and the Star, no wonder they have little knowledge of the truth.
Smeone must have taught them these techniques yet as allways it's those at the bottom who are punished not those at the top where the resposibilty should stop. The officers in charge of the regiment should all be held equally responsible and be imprissoned and discherged with no pension. They are all guilty of conspiracy to torture.The people arrested by the soldiers where in the main innocent.
No wonder they want to kill British soldiers if we are going into their country and abusing them.
This is Britains third occupation of Iraq since 1914. We have occupied Iraq for 41 of the last 95 years something that is not in the history books. We occupied it from 1914 to 1932. Churchill invented Carpet Bombing there, as well as being the first person to use Chemical Weapons (mustrd gas) on the Kurds. We taught the Iraqi's a lot about how to oppress their citizens. we invaded again in 1941 and stayed there until we where kicked out in 1958. Each occupation has resulted in political unrest and violence as the Iraqi people tried to get rid of the occupying forces. The british had to leave when their puppet governments were overthrown.
The reason for the invasions was oil. Oh yeah, we had actually taken Basra from the Ottoman Empire in 1913 prior to the war. Germany was building a railway to Baghdad so that oil could be transported directly to Berlin. This was an economic threat to Britain who controlled the sea lanes and the flow of oil. The first place British soldiers where sent in 1914 was not Belguim even though we declared war on them for invading Belgium but to Basra to secure the oil fields in Mesopotamia (modern day Iraq).
British soldiers have been giving their lives to help private oil companies for the 100's of years. Iraq's oil belongs to the people of Iraq not Exxon or BP. Our government has given all of our resources to private companies so their cronies can line their pockets and now they are sending our sons and daughters to kill other peoles sons and daughters, many of them children to force them to give their resources to those same greedy selfish crionies too.
... as is clear from their sudden change of stonewalling denial to an out-of-court financial settlement to Mousa's relatives.
Mousa's murderers are walking British streets right now - or square-bashing British parade-grounds. These man have to be brought to justice, along with the MoD officials who hid the evidence, denied the charges, engineered the cover-up and arranged the blood-money payout.
Because those activies are called AIDING & ABETTING PREMEDITATED MURDER.
Every desk across which those documents passed is the desk of a guilty man. And that goes right to the top... from the squaddies who murdered Mousa, to Sir Richard Dannatt who swept it all under the carpet. Every one of them is going to jail. It's only a matter of time, Sir Richard. How do you like your porridge? Ooooh, I'm afraid they don't do "sugar and a little cream" where you're headed, Sir Richard...
And the same goes for the "Tribunal" that acquitted the squaddies who threw the 15-year-old boys into a river to drown. You're going down too, "lads".
Very quick to jump on the band wagon,I personally seen British soldiers risk their own lives to rescue Iraqis who had driven into a canel and were drowning !!
When you have some idea what you are talking about then you can GOB OFF !!
Your correct that "him being foriegn" does not change the fact Mr Musa was abused and died while in British detention !! It was a disgrace the way he was treated ! However "him being foriegn" like so many others who like to dis credit our countrys respected armed forces through this newspapers website.
Actually the British Army were involved in very few murders,although they did shoot men who took up arms and decide to play soldiers,these men were called the Mehdi Militia and criminals with guns.Is that what you mean ?? because this my friend is called war !!
You are wrong in your broadbrush assumption that British soldiers are thugs,most people who have been in warzones,which please may i assume you have not ! such as Bosnia,Kosovo,Afghanistan and Iraq would disagree with you on your mis-informed statement.In fact British forces are respected around the world for their fairplay and proffesionalism !!
The example I gave you was that I "seen" young British men risk their own lives to pull Iraqis out of a car in which otherwise they would have drowned.Where is your evidence that British Soldiers were involved in many murders ???? or are you confusing them with the Mehdi Miltia who were expert at murder ???
How exactly do you know how many people the British army has killed in Iraq and Afghanistan?
I would be particularly interested in official figures for how many killed as:
- combatants,
- collateral
- accidental
- by carpet bombing
I would also be good to know how many of the Iraqi and Afghans injured:
- very seriously injured
- seriously injured
- long term impacted/lost limbs or other organs
I have got no idea,although reading your posts I thought you would know seeing as you appear to be an expert on the region,despite the fact you have been to niether of the said two countries !!!
Perhaps while you are at it you could compile a list on how many the Taliban and Al Queda killed also
Heres a start 10 civilians killed by the Taliban with a car bomb last week when they killed six Italians !!
Your use of the phrase "Actually the British Army were involved in very few murders" made it sound like you had studied the figures in detail, hence my questions.
Just bear in mind soldiers are just ordinary blokes with uniforms. They will be a mixed bunch - most will be good, some will be bad. But when they are together pack-animal behaviour instincts will take-over. They are most likely to kill indiscriminately under pressure or when no-one seems to be watching.
Same as the American massacre of Fallujah - most of the inhabitants, who remained, were killed - men, women, children. Here the Americans had the intentional media blackout.
Actually the Americans had journos embedded with them in Fallujah....try reading the spiders of allah by Jame Hider,who was one of the embeds !
Are you honestly suggesting that when British soldiers go on a mission that they behave like animals ??
You are very mistaken !!
Most of the people who remained in Fallujah were diehard Jihadists,or those to old or sick to leave.Everyone else knew exactly what was coming - the wrath of America.
Al Queda killed that many civilians in Iraq that the sunni militias kicked them out and did a deal with the Americans.Its easy to point the finger at the Coalition of the willing,are you suggesting Taliban Al Queda are some kind of do gooding organistion who are concerned with human rights etc ??? Or are they pyschotic criminals who will kill anyone in the name of religon !!
The wrath of America? That's rich when US went in there during an illegal invasion under false pretences of WMDs.
Yes, I am saying the British soldiers (like most, if not all others armies) can behave like animals. Have you heard of Abu Ghraib? Do you know what happened there under the management of the so called "civilised" soldiers?
Everything thats happened in Iraq since 2003 has been a result of decision by Bush and Blair. There was no al-queda there. For all the hundreds of thousands who have died, the spark for this fire was initiated by us (the West). No point trying to deflect the blame onto others.
Of course Saddam Hussain was a good old egg who did not murder thousends of his own people,invade his nieghbors,Kuwait,Iran......torture people and then lets talk about his rapist son Udey who would abduct girls from the street for his pleasure,or fire his rifle at the singers at wedding parties....nice fella !!!
Actually I know exactly where Abu Gharab is I have driven past it on many occasions......and guess who was getting tortured before the Yanks had a go at there !! Guess how many Iraqis went in there and disappeared !!!
If Saddam was a little smarter who would still be in power,but instead he played games with the UN/US for years !! over WMD so they invaded him.
The Iraqis had had it tough for twenty plus years under Saddam,in Basra they did not even have constant electric or clean drinking water.At last they will have their own destiny.
You have no idea how brutal the regime was but feel you can make your comments because you jumped on the bandwagon and opposed the war.
The war was a just war to remove Saddam,it was the lack of a plan afterwards that led to disaster !
It was in no way ok for the Americans to wipe out all the remaining residents in a city like Fallujah. It may be ok on Fox News for US consumption, but the rest of the world wouldnt agree with you.
Saddam needed to be removed but that doesnt mean we can go around invading other countries for regime change.
So what you are saying quite clearly is that because Saddam was a basket case, its ok for us to be basket cases as well.
If the war (invasion) was just to remove Saddam, then its illegal (but we already know that) so why did Blair engineer the 45 min WMDs aimed at the UK as the reason for the invasion?
All these warmonger actions will have negative repercussions for the West in the future. At the moment we look rich, safe and secure, but the world order is rapidly changing. Eg, recently, one of the Chinese companies became the largest corporation in the world with a market value of around £350 billion.
The Middle East puppet dictators have a long standing tradition to look towards the West for all their needs. But over the last few years, due to growing public pressure, they are starting to boycott Western products and services, in favour of Eastern (Chinese/Russian/Japanese) products and services. They are also actively promoting their own people to train for self-sufficiency (as they should have a long time ago) instead on taking Western consultants.
This can only help the emerging Eastern companies to grow even faster.
So many long term side effects of illegal invasions...
The Iraqi resistance have every right to resist anyone that so brutally invades thier country, if Iraq invaded this country would you not fight back? Yes some of the Mahdi army are criminals, but they didnt exist until the brits came along, and the brits retreated from Basra, surrendered the city to them and left them charge!!!!!
As for the brits carring out murders,
Kenya, 1950's Use of concentration camps against innocent civilians, widespread extrajudicial killings and torture.
http://chvnx.com/post/142755188/britain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mau_Mau_Up
Systematic rape in Kenya by brit soldiers.
http://www.womenagainstrape.net/war%20w
The murder of 14 unarmed civians in Northern Ireland on bloody sunday, plus the extrajudical killings of Nationalists and innocent Catholic civilians in Northern Ireland, totaling (with support of british backed paramility death squads) almost 1500 people (more than the IRA)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrajudic
http://blogs.amnesty.org.uk/blogs_e
Terrorist activities in Basra, including "black op" bombings to incite civil war.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p
The torture and murder of civilians and resistance fighters in Basra, including mutaliating corpses.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/p
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/feb20
The list goes on...........
He went on: "This gives rise to serious questions about the professionalism of the outfit and whether the culture was one of impunity.
"It also gives rise to serious questions about the capacity of the regiment's members to question and challenge abuse."
Actually I think this fairly answers those questions. It should be considered that the wife who died of cancer was also probably a victim of the coalition of the killing. The instances of cancer and birth defects in Iraq is skyrocketting because of the use of Uranium ammunition. So called Depleted Uranium.