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IoS investigation

Jihad: The Somalia connection

Numbers of young Britons heading for war-torn African country have soared

By Brian Brady

A member of the youth militant group al-Shabaab, which has strong ties with al-Qa'ida

ap

A member of the youth militant group al-Shabaab, which has strong ties with al-Qa'ida

British intelligence chiefs have targeted war-torn Somalia as the next major challenge to their efforts to repel Islamic terrorism, after scores of youths left the UK for "jihad training" in the failed African state. MI5 bosses have warned ministers that the number of young Britons travelling to Somalia to fight in a "holy war", or train in terror training camps, has soared in recent years as the country has emerged as an alternative base for radical Islamic groups including al-Qa'ida.

The Independent on Sunday understands that the number of young Britons following the trail every year has more than quadrupled to at least 100 since 2004 – and analysts warn that the true figure (which would include those who enter the country overland) will be much higher.

However, the British authorities are particularly concerned about the number of people with no direct family connection to Somalia who are travelling to fight and train there. The diversity suggests Somalia is flourishing as a training ground for radical British Muslims, who could join the local terrorist militia al-Shabaab ("the youth"), go on to join conflicts including the Afghan campaign, or return home to pose a security threat to the UK.

It was reported earlier this year that a suicide bomber from Ealing had blown himself up in an attack in Somalia that killed more than 20 soldiers. Two Somali asylum-seekers were among the four men convicted of the failed attempts to bomb the London transport system on 21 July 2005.

Although Afghanistan and Pakistan remain the main destination for British would-be jihadists, the IoS has established that British intelligence chiefs have multiplied the time and resources dedicated to monitoring the trail between Britain and Somalia. The human chain to the Horn of Africa is at the centre of a number of ongoing secret operations. The most established British Somali communities – in London, Liverpool, Cardiff and Bristol – have been placed under the microscope, but "significant investigations" have been targeted on Manchester and West Yorkshire.

The Somali connection has been played down in recent years, as security services have concentrated on more traditional terror hot spots such as Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan. A number of the "liquid bomb" plot terrorists convicted last week had Pakistani connections and the bomb makers are believed to have received training at an al-Qa'ida camp in Pakistan.

The British Somali community has grown rapidly in recent years, with thousands of refugees fleeing the fighting in their homeland. But the hardship they have experienced has raised fears that many younger British Somalis have become detached from wider society – and ripe for radicalisation. The Home Office is funding a "Prevent" strategy to tackle radicalisation in UK Muslim communities.

Conservative MP Patrick Mercer, chairman of the counterterrorism subcommittee, said: "I have seen figures that are not in the public domain that suggest there is an increasing flow of young Britons into Somalia. There is now a mixture of British people, from numerous backgrounds, who are heading out there and that is causing great concern."

Despite international support, a series of governments has folded in the face of opposition from rival warlords over almost two decades. Al-Shabaab, a militant Islamic group with deepening ties to al-Qa'ida, is engaged in a vicious struggle with the latest transitional government.

The organisation, which has been designated a terrorist group by the US government, has imposed sharia law in the areas under its control. US officials also accuse al-Shabaab of recruiting young children to train for suicide missions in Somalia.

But it is the ability of Somali militants to reach beyond their own borders that is causing the greatest concern. A confidential report from the non-governmental organisation Partners International Foundation in 2002 identified at least 16 terrorism training camps. The Americans claim the network has grown since then.

Three men from Minneapolis have so far pleaded guilty to terror-related charges stemming from a federal investigation into Americans travelling to Somalia to fight with Islamic militants. At least three more have died, including one whom authorities believe is the first American suicide bomber. Australian authorities last month revealed they had uncovered an alleged plot by immigrants, including three Somalis, to carry out a suicide attack.

The alarm has been echoed in the UK, where undercover surveillance operations have identified a growing number of suspect visits to Somalia.

"We would have started at below 20 five years ago, when Somalia was not significant enough to be put under close surveillance," a senior Home Office source said yesterday. "It has been climbing noticeably every year. You have to remember that Somalia is not a place you would go for a holiday. It is particularly striking when people with no Somali family are going there; it looks as if some people are being attracted by the lawlessness."

The British Somali who became a suicide bomber is believed to have entered Somalia on foot, over the border from Kenya. The unnamed 21-year-old reportedly blew himself up at a checkpoint in the southern Somali town of Baidoa in 2007.

Sheikh Ahmed Aabi, a moderate Somali religious leader in Kentish Town, north London, said that he had heard from families of sons travelling to Somalia to join Islamist groups. "I'm hearing it from parents," he said. "They say they [their children] are joining the jihad. This is a big problem facing our community."

A troubled history

1960 British and Italian Somaliland join forces on independence to form the Somali Republic under the first president, Aden Abdullah Osman.

1969 Mohamed Siad Barre assumes power in a coup.

1993 US Army Rangers are killed when Somali militias shoot down US helicopters in Mogadishu. Hundreds of Somalis die in the ensuing battle, shown in Black Hawk Down. US mission formally ends in March 1994.

2007 Jan US air strikes target al-Qa'ida but reportedly kill civilians – the first known direct US military intervention since 1993. President Yusuf defends them. Interim government imposes state of emergency.

2007 Jun US warship shells suspected Al-Qa'ida targets in Puntland.

2008 Mar US launches missile strike on town of Dhoble targeting al-Qa'ida suspect wanted for 2002 bombing of Israeli hotel in Kenya. Insurgency spreads.

2008 Apr US air strike kills Aden Hashi Ayro, a leader of Al-Shabab insurgency.

2009 may Islamist insurgents attack Mogadishu.

2009 Jun Security minister killed by hotel suicide bomb. Officials ask neighbouring countries for troops.

Victoria Richards

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Comments

the results of a soft system
[info]graham_casey wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 12:42 am (UTC)
So these 'British' youths enjoy the welfare payments and everything else that goes with their passport but hate the Country enough to go and train as terrorists and in some cases to fight against British soldiers. As usual the soft system in the UK just 'monitors' this and is 'concerned' . Why on earth don't they kick out any asylum seeker who does this and cancel British passports for others leaving them in Pakistan or Somalia where they apparently feel more at home? There is absolutely no excuse politicians can use to justify letting these people back inside the borders where they pose a significant threat and cost a fortune to monitor. It is also an insult to the efforts of the armed forces who expect to fight enemies but don't expect their Government to give the enemy shelter at home whilst they risk their lives fighting them overseas.
Living in such a politically correct system where they can do what they want to bite the hand that feeds them these guys must laugh their way through customs and all the way to the social security office. Its surely another sign that things need to change drastically and quickly or otherwise people who are frustrated by the inability of Government to act in the interest of genuine British people on this and many other issues will change it and it probably won't be pretty if that starts to happen on the streets.
you confuse malignant intent with "inability"
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 10:54 am (UTC)
your parasites are quite able
Numbers of young Britons heading for war-torn African country have soared
[info]famulla wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 02:08 am (UTC)
YES.
LONDON – Violent clashes between anti-Islam demonstrators and Muslim counter-protesters in English cities are worrying the government, with one British minister comparing the disturbances to 1930s-era fascist incitement.
The violence that has hit Luton, Birmingham and London in the last few months has involved a loose collection of far-right groups — such as the previously unknown English Defense League — on one side and anti-fascist organizations and Muslim youth on the other.
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla
Did they ask you to there?
[info]famulla wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 03:56 am (UTC)
1960 British and Italian Somaliland join forces on independence to form the Somali Republic under the first president, Aden Abdullah Osman.
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla
Re: Did they ask you to there?
[info]alternativeview wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 02:39 pm (UTC)
Famulla I have been following your post for some time and I will tell you something your mummy and daddy should have said to you when you were growing up: shut the f*ck up!!!!!
Apart from the times when you just cut and paste whole libraries in your comments your posts do not make any sense what so ever! Your pitiful attempts at commentary annoy thousands and while a very few have come to regard you as a a bearable eccentric, weird little oddity I think you are a charlatan who probably isn't even that bad at writing english but someone who is just trying to hide their total inability at debating and opinion forming by trying to fashion an aura of mystique through their writings ala Nostradamus. Nothing that you write means anything because you dont have anything to say! Shut up and go find a single human being to annoy i.e a girlfriend and leave the rest of us alone.

I thank you
One pissed off reader
Re: Did they ask you to there?
[info]rex123 wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 03:22 pm (UTC)

alternativeview, you underestimate him - he deliberately posts nonsense so that people who try to post smth. sirious on important issue (like this one today) feel ashamed to posting along with such an obvious bs. which only mentally ill people would post - result is that important issue "sinks" in his bs. and so that is his aim...No public outcry is possible to take seriously if it is diluted by shouting of mentally ill people because it is natural not to take into account opinions of mentally ill - he effectivelly makes all our opinions to be regarded as his own bs.
Mostly our own faukt
[info]tovasco wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 04:24 am (UTC)
Perhaps now the western inspired and backed invasion of Ethiopia to destroy the Islamic Courts which were shaping up to becoming the only stable central government for Somalia in decades will be seen to the folly it was. Never mind the thousands of deaths, misery, starvation and piracy that resulted. We have caused death and destruction around the world on a massive scale but think we wear the white hat. We have no idea.
Re: Mostly our own faukt
[info]andre_t wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 06:17 am (UTC)
I would take it step further, perhaps the Western colonisation was a mistake just like in Afganistan
We should rejecy all Somali asylum claims
[info]baffledbritain wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 06:33 am (UTC)
The international rules are supposedly that an asylum claim must be lodged in the first safe country the claimant comes to. By this rule, we should not have accepted a single asylum claim from any Somali - unless they flew here directly. Why is it that this government so clearly flouts the rules, thus endangering the citizens whom it is duty bound to protect?
Re: We should rejecy all Somali asylum claims
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 10:42 am (UTC)
the answer to your question is obvious - the possible alternatives are not plausible

you are governed by organised gangs of quisling "prostitutes" (I quote Cromwell)
Rent-a-Jihadi
[info]sw1paul wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 07:05 am (UTC)
Since Afghanistan in the 1980s there has been the culture among young muslim men to go and fight in other peoples wars in the name of Religon,going in any other guise they would be called mercenries.

Many hundreds travelled to Afghanistan in the 80s and 90s....

We then had to listen to the lame excuses of those caught in Afghanistan in 2001 by the Americans/Afghans as their Jihadi holiday turned sour and they were detained,while fighting for the Taliban and Al Queda.For example the Tipton six,who went to Pakistan for a wedding and ended up Kandahar Afghanistan with the Taliban somehow ??? they caught the wrong bus according to the ridiculus movie they commisioned.

Now we read the same type of folk are travelling to Somalia to go on Jihadi vacations,no doubt of course the FCO will bail them out if they are captured !!

I hope the government is looking very closely at these men and that ANYONE WHO IS DEEMED A THREAT TO UK NATIONAL SECURITY DEPORTED IN SHORT ORDER BACK SOMALIA WHERE THEY CAN CONDUCT AS MUCH JIHAD AS THEY PLEASE.





Re: Rent-a-British-Soldier
[info]corporeal_v002 wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 11:58 am (UTC)

Haven't British slodiers been rented out to the USA in Iraq and Afghanistan for Bushes ambitions?
Should we kick out all the British soldiers who return from these illegal invasions?
Only when....
[info]jaded63 wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 07:46 am (UTC)
...only when the inevitable multiple atrocities are meted out by our home-grown jihadis will the government begin to take any effective action. It is not enough to 'monitor' the tens of thousands of Muslim extremists in our country who wish to wage war on us. Only mass expulsions of Pakistanis and Somalis will rid us of a menace which, if not tackled ruthlessly, will lead to an internal war in Britain the likes of which has not been seen for centuries.
Only when....
[info]jaded63 wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 07:46 am (UTC)
...only when the inevitable multiple atrocities are meted out by our home-grown jihadis will the government begin to take any effective action. It is not enough to 'monitor' the tens of thousands of Muslim extremists in our country who wish to wage war on us. Only mass expulsions of Pakistanis and Somalis will rid us of a menace which, if not tackled ruthlessly, will lead to an internal war in Britain the likes of which has not been seen for centuries.
oil?
[info]someofusknow wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 08:49 am (UTC)
Just think how many generals and arms manufactutrers would be out of work if the supply of terorrists and terrorist states ever dried up. That would be just too bad. Gotta talk up the terror threat, especially now that the UK economy is going down the drain.

And if yet another invasion of Somalia in on the cards, presumably someone has discovered a bit more oil than was previously believed to be there.
Re: oil?
[info]famulla wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 02:04 pm (UTC)
oil?
someofusknow wrote:
GOT A GPS? SEE THE VET
THERE IS NO OIL READ ME THERE AT THE BOTTOM
Re: oil?
[info]alternativeview wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 02:41 pm (UTC)
Famulla I have been following your post for some time and I will tell you something your mummy and daddy should have said to you when you were growing up: shut the f*ck up!!!!!
Apart from the times when you just cut and paste whole libraries in your comments your posts do not make any sense what so ever! Your pitiful attempts at commentary annoy thousands and while a very few have come to regard you as a a bearable eccentric, weird little oddity I think you are a charlatan who probably isn't even that bad at writing english but someone who is just trying to hide their total inability at debating and opinion forming by trying to fashion an aura of mystique through their writings ala Nostradamus. Nothing that you write means anything because you dont have anything to say! Shut up and go find a single human being to annoy i.e a girlfriend and leave the rest of us alone.

I thank you
One pissed off reader
jihad:the somalia connection
[info]maomar wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 09:37 am (UTC)
Is it not high time the British government come to its senses
and reward the good guys.The Good guys are on your doorstep
begging for recognition.British Somaliland is a viable working state
with all the hallmarks of a functioning government and has started
from scratch alone .It has succeeded in building its govt institutions
and is known as an Oasis of Peace in a region marred by violence.
Is it not high time that the World rewards the good guys.
Somaliland can do a lot to stop those terrorists if recognized.
Why do you bring muslims to UK with your own hands?
[info]rex123 wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 10:08 am (UTC)


In Russia and China muslim minorities are indeginous, so those countries at least can't blame their own stupidity for those problems they face in trying to cope with Islamists....But tell me - why, why why have you done such a mess to your beautiful country of Great Britain with your own hands?...
Re: Why do you bring muslims to UK with your own hands?
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 10:17 am (UTC)
I suspect that you already know the answer to question : why, if the intent of a quisling government is not malignant (when the "IRA" cattle prod was losint potency)? The alternative possibility is such a level of stupidity that it isn't plausible
Re: Why do you bring muslims to UK with your own hands?
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 10:18 am (UTC)
I suspect that you already know the answer to question : why, if the intent of a quisling government is not malignant (when the (if they didn't exist they would have to be invented" (during Thatcher's reign), "IRA" cattle prod was losing its potency)? The alternative possibility is such a level of stupidity that it isn't plausible
meantime one of the largest anti-social slush funds
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 10:10 am (UTC)
will continue to be that which actviely misuses public money facilities at local government and parliamentary cosnstituency level to promote Somali separatism and assist the provision by racketeers of immigration package deals including an ID bought within the DWP/HMR&C, "benefits", unlimited legal aid, and a social housing unit of which a local family has been deprived
Why somalia is still a mess
[info]50992 wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 11:53 am (UTC)
The british and US empire do not want somalia to be peace and stable, three years ago there was this islamic court that ruled somalia for 6month, and these six month was the most peacefull month in the 17 years of anarchy that somalia has faced. Even the president Abdullahi yusuf could not bring the peace that the islamic court has brought. But The so called president Abdullahi yusuf was not satisfied with the islamic court just for his own interest, so he called the british and the US for help to get rid of them. And of course the british and the US was more than willing to help the president also for their own interest, it's good for them to see the country in a state of anarchy so that they can easily steal the natural sources and fish of somalia because there is no law and security. This makes the somali people living in somalia and outside somalia very angered and upset, this causes a very small minority to join a resistance group against the corrupt somali government that is sponsered by the british and US empire. Naming them terrorist is not the correct way to describe them because they are not terrorizing they are just defending their country. In my opninion there is no al-Qaeda in somalia, however there is al-shabaab which I believe is funded by the US just to cause a state of anarchy. You may be confused that al-shabaab could be funded by the US, just know that they are very intellegent on how to play different groups against eachother just to cause a state of anarchy for their own interest.

thanks



Re: Why somalia is still a mess
[info]jeanlaffite wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 01:09 pm (UTC)

I agree with you and tovasco. The Islamic Court movement were on the point of bringing peace where the Western powers had failed in an orgy of obscene massacres and torturing of young Somalis. But Somalia is now in what the West regards as Israel's area of influence and therefore cannot be permitted to have an indigenous Muslim government.
Jihad: The British connnection
[info]theprogramme wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 12:14 pm (UTC)
Muslims performing commando rolls with toy guns in the Lake District.
The true story part 1
[info]famulla wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 01:49 pm (UTC)
The true story part 1
Clinton Offers Assurances to Somalis
By JEFFREY GETTLEMAN
Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton reiterated the U.S. commitment to help the fledgling security services.
August 7, 2009
MORE ON SOMALIA AND: KENYA, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT, CLINTON, HILLARY RODHAM, AHMED, SHARIF
? World; Hillary Rodham Clinton in Africa
? Population: 9 million (UN, 2008)
? Capital: Mogadishu
? Area: 637,657sq km (246,201 sq miles)
? Major languages: Somali, Arabic, Italian, English
? Major religion: Islam
? Life expectancy: 47 years (men), 49 years (women)
? Monetary unit: 1 Somali shilling = 100 cents
? Main exports: Livestock, bananas, hides, fish
? GNI per capita: n/a
? Internet domain: .so
? International dialling code: +252
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla
The true story part 2
[info]famulla wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 01:51 pm (UTC)
Economy - overview:
Despite the lack of effective national governance, Somalia has maintained a healthy informal economy, largely based on livestock, remittance/money transfer companies, and telecommunications. Agriculture is the most important sector, with livestock normally accounting for about 40% of GDP and about 65% of export earnings. Nomads and semi-pastoralists, who are dependent upon livestock for their livelihood, make up a large portion of the population. Livestock, hides, fish, charcoal, and bananas are Somalia's principal exports, while sugar, sorghum, corn, qat, and machined goods are the principal imports. Somalia's small industrial sector, based on the processing of agricultural products, has largely been looted and sold as scrap metal. Somalia's service sector also has grown. Telecommunication firms provide wireless services in most major cities and offer the lowest international call rates on the continent. In the absence of a formal banking sector, money transfer/remittance services have sprouted throughout the country, handling roughly $2 billion in remittances annually. Mogadishu's main market offers a variety of goods from food to the newest electronic gadgets. Hotels continue to operate and are supported with private-security militias. Somalia's arrears to the IMF continued to grow in 2008. Statistics on Somalia's GDP, growth, per capita income, and inflation should be viewed skeptically.
Agriculture - products: bananas, sorghum, corn, coconuts, rice, sugarcane, mangoes, sesame seeds, beans; cattle, sheep, goats; fish Industries: a few light industries, including sugar refining, textiles, wireless communication
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla

Re: The true story part 2
[info]alternativeview wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 02:42 pm (UTC)
Famulla I have been following your post for some time and I will tell you something your mummy and daddy should have said to you when you were growing up: shut the f*ck up!!!!!
Apart from the times when you just cut and paste whole libraries in your comments your posts do not make any sense what so ever! Your pitiful attempts at commentary annoy thousands and while a very few have come to regard you as a a bearable eccentric, weird little oddity I think you are a charlatan who probably isn't even that bad at writing english but someone who is just trying to hide their total inability at debating and opinion forming by trying to fashion an aura of mystique through their writings ala Nostradamus. Nothing that you write means anything because you dont have anything to say! Shut up and go find a single human being to annoy i.e a girlfriend and leave the rest of us alone.

I thank you
One pissed off reader
Racists/English are to blame
[info]edmund03 wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 05:27 pm (UTC)
Having been put to rights by the Independent's lead article this morning on "Exposing Hatred", I now accept that English people are solely to blame for driving these poor young innocents into the arms of terrorists. Evidently we have been "goading" them into extremism through our relentless racism and discrimination, and consequently should welcome the ensuing atrocities against our population as just punishment. Oh yes.
Incidentally, the heroic actions of these brave young lads is in no way connected with the doctrine of hatred against the West, promulgated by Islamist organisations such as the Muslim Brotherhood or Al Qaida (generally acknowledged by all right-thinking people to have been spawned and controlled by Mossad and the CIA) nor is it attributable to an intrinsic incompatibility between Western liberal values and a religion (or some might say, like all faiths..a proposterous superstition) which has doggedly remained unreformed since the 7th century. Oh no.
It is insulting that we evil kafirs in the West still question the veracity of our Muslims brothers' (sisters don't really count I'm afraid) mantra-like assurances that Islam is a religion of peace. Pointing out that Sunnies and Shiites have gleefully and sadistically slaughtered over 600,000 men, women and children (all fellow Muslims) in Iraq is another example of the racism I referred to. There were merely local difficulties. As is Dafur. And Timor.
Mend your ways or else.
Re: Racists/English are to blame
[info]rex123 wrote:
Sunday, 13 September 2009 at 07:21 pm (UTC)

Well really, the best solution for a problem would be for all Brits to give their homes and everything for muslim immigrants,then to take plane, boat, whatever and to immigrate (togeather with immigrants of Christian origin) to Greenland! - Facinating place, new opportunities, global warming will make your life a pleasure, a lot of exitment and perspective !...Then there would be no secutiry problems on those Islands (UK I mean)....Well, and because you love muslim immigrants so much - you can then invite them to Greenland - but, please, build all the infrastructure first and don't forget to develop space industry - afterall you'll need to go somewhere again in some time - they say Mars is not bad place!
Troubled History
[info]gabaldoon wrote:
Monday, 14 September 2009 at 08:10 am (UTC)
1964 war with Ethiopia over the Ogaden, an ethnic Somali region the size of GB which is part of Ehtiopia
1977 war with Ethiopia over the Ogaden, an ethnic Somali region the size of GB which is part of Ethiopia

Infact, the problem that destroyed Somalia is the huge, incorrectable mistake that was made during independence. The UN gave Ogadenia to ethiopia and Garissa territory to Kenya. Together the two regions, which are both 100% ethnic Somali, constitute roughly 55% of the land mass occupied by the Somali people. In other words, the coastal strip known as Somalia is only the tip of an "iceberg" that is more than half "under water." The rest is divided between Kenya, Ethiopia, and Jibouti. The largest chunk of territory, the Ogaden, was the cause of two wars between the sister nations of Somalia and Ethiopia. Both wars ended in defeat for Somalia. Later on Ethiopia decided that the best way to end the dispute was to weaken Somalia by fomenting and arming anti goverment groups in Somalia itself. This strategy eventually led to the total collapse of the Somali state.
Not to be out done, the goverment of Siad Barre supported Somali, Ethiopian, and Eriterian rebels in Ethiopia. Ironically, the current prime minister of Ethiopia, Melez Senawi, was one of those rebels, and he once lived in mogadishu under the protection of Siad Barre! As a result the Ethiopian goverment of Mengistu Haille Mariam was ousted in 1991 and Eriterea became an independent country.
And the point of all of this is? Well, Intelligence reports are good and dandy, but solving the root causes of problems is even better. If Ethiopia could be persuaded to return the Ogaden to Somalia relations would get better and the problem of Somalia would get better too. Relieving human suffering should be a priority for all of us, instaed of the tit-for-tat politics we have today.
Re: Troubled History
[info]rex123 wrote:
Monday, 14 September 2009 at 10:38 am (UTC)

gabaldoon wrote: "...Well, Intelligence reports are good and dandy, but solving the root causes of problems is even better. If Ethiopia could be persuaded to return the Ogaden to Somalia relations would get better and the problem of Somalia would get better too. Relieving human suffering should be a priority for all of us, instaed of the tit-for-tat politics we have today."-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Again and again one and the same mistake - even if everything were done right (according to your point of view) in the begining with Ogadenia and Garisssa - it would not solve the main problem - muslims can not accept the idea of secular society not because they are poor or bad people or ignorant or illiterate or evil.... - NO WAY! - They can't accept secular society for themselves because secular society contradicts Quran ! It is according to Quran that Islam is not just religion (as Christianity or Budhism for ex.) but also the Political Regime with interpenetration of state and religion, strikt rules for social life, sharia law etc.etc....They will ALWAYS fight for such kind of political regime (if not militarily, then ideologically !) - it is just so with Islam! - and it doesn't mean that Islam is bad - no way - for some types of people it is better to be controlled by social pressure (like in muslim society) rather then by their own conshiosness (like in Christian or secular European society) - all nations are equal in rights, BUT DIFFERENT IN TEMPER, PSYCHOLOGY anf EMOTIONAL PATTERNS ! - Islam accomodates particular nations (the God provided Quran for them - good for them), but it is inconsistant with Christian Psychology of INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY and NON-JUDJEMENT of others!...Mixture of those 2 Good things (Islam and Christianity) will result in explosion!...The same as in chemistry - ingredients of a bomb are all good and usefull substances, BUT once put togeather - they explode ! So don't blame Islam - blame your stupid Immigration authorities infested by atheists who don't understand what religious believe is and treat religions like desiese which they think they will cure with "antibiotic" of stupid political correctness...
Re: Troubled History
[info]derrick_1 wrote:
Wednesday, 16 September 2009 at 03:21 pm (UTC)
I think you have to start with the Jewish community first,every jew who believes in the state of Israel
has to do national service.Regardless of the fact that they are meant to British."But hold on are they not meant to be british".Oh yes i forgot"they are gods chosen people"so that rule does not apply to them.Oh
well lets just stick to the Muslims its easier.We dont want to be known as anti-semites now we now!.
So we will bash the muslims.Why not everybody else is they cant all be wrong can they?.
Jihad: The Somalia Connection
[info]moonwalker13 wrote:
Saturday, 19 September 2009 at 09:54 am (UTC)
It's just as simple as carrying out targettes assasinations on the al-Qaida leadres in Somalia and the terror groups will disappear into into the mist of history! They say:" Frustrate the shepherd and the flock will disperse!" Otherwise, the average Somali is peace loving and has an enterprising soul!

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