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Life with a control order: a wife's story

Mahmoud Abu Rideh has spent four years behind bars and another four years on a control order. A father of six, he is in a wheelchair and has never seen the evidence against him. Today he goes to the High Court, backed by Amnesty International, in a plea to leave Britain. Here Dina Al Jnidi, his wife, describes the family's descent into a nightmare

The family of Mahmoud Abu Rideh campaign for his freedom

The family of Mahmoud Abu Rideh campaign for his freedom

It is still fresh in my mind the day the police came to arrest my husband – it was the 19 December 2001. They broke down the door and forced their way into our home while I was still in my night dress. They were pointing their guns in my face and in the children's faces. There were about 30 armed officers. They forced my husband to the floor and handcuffed him, pressing down on his back and neck with their knees as he screamed in pain. They yelled: "Shut up you f***ing terrorist!" I implored the police to stop because my husband suffers from back pain. All this was in view of my children who were terrified; they were crying, shaking, many had wet themselves .

The police took my husband away – to where, I do not know. They took me and my children to a hostel; they wanted to search our home.

After two days we were allowed to return home. The local newspaper had taken pictures of our house. The headlines read something like: "Terrorist raid". After this article I had my face veil forcibly removed three times. We also had rubbish thrown at our front door.

Forty days passed and I still did not know where my husband was. I called the police, immigration – no one told me where he was.

Eventually I swapped my home because our neighbours had resorted to spitting at me. Prior to the arrest of my husband and the raid on our home, we had never had any trouble with our neighbours. The police have caused this problem which led to our victimisation.

I finally found out my husband was in Belmarsh prison and I went to visit him there. I discovered he was on a hunger strike. The visit was a closed visit, which means that neither I nor my children could touch him. The children were unable to hug or hold their father. Even shaking his hand was not allowed. On many occasions after travelling long distances in difficult circumstances we were sent away without being allowed to see him. My husband does not speak English well, but he was not allowed to speak Arabic (eventually this was allowed for one visit out of four).

My husband used to call and often he would be crying due to the torture and the discrimination he was facing. My children, too, would cry. The effect of all this torture, discrimination, and detention without charge or trial drove my husband insane, angry and psychologically mad. Never before was he like this, he was a normal person – a normal husband and a normal father. Due to his mental state he was transferred to Broadmoor psychiatric hospital, a place for dangerous high-risk people.

While at Broadmoor, he was frequently attacked by staff, nurses and other prisoners. I could not visit him there. I tried, but whenever I went I was told he was in isolation, in solitary confinement.

Broadmoor was far from our home, it was difficult travelling with five children only to be sent home.

It was around this time that my husband began to self-harm. He drank detergents, he used pens to dig deep into his arms.

He was finally released in 2005. We were given only two hours' notice before his return. We were pleased to have him back home, but did not know the full extent of the conditions that would be placed on him. I did not know what a control order was. He had to wear an electronic tag around his ankle. He had to report in several times a day (including the middle of the night) using special equipment that had been placed in our home. We were not allowed to have a digital camera in the home, nor other basic items such as USB sticks, memory cards or MP3 players. Our children were not allowed to use the internet or have a computer. We were not allowed visitors unless they had been cleared by the Home Office after a rigorous vetting procedure. Many would not even call for fear of being harassed by the police or worse.

My husband was a wreck, a shattered man. He could not sleep, he would sweat and shake, he would have nightmares and flashbacks. It was almost impossible to deal with him. He was ill and had complex psychological needs – I am not a trained nurse and he required specialist help. One week later he attempted suicide by taking an overdose of his depression and anti-psychotic medications. I found him on the floor unconscious, in a pool of vomit foam coming from his mouth. He was taken to the hospital and remained unconscious for three days.

My life is ruined. I cannot sleep. I cry so much. It is having an effect on my children. I blame Tony Blair, the House of Lords, the Queen, the politicians, Parliament. They all have a have a hand in this. I am British. So are my children. Why, then, is it acceptable for us to be treated in this manner? The police came many times to search my house, violating the sanctity that is a home. What do they expect to find among my clothes and my children's clothes? They confiscated money, a Nintendo Wii, a Playstation, a PSP. The Nintendo Wii was a gift from my husband's solicitor to our children. Despite numerous requests, none of these items have been returned to us. Why? Are my children not allowed the things everyone else's children are?

Even irrelevant documents have been confiscated – birth certificates, school reports, a car log book and MOT certificates. Of what significance or benefit are these?

I was at breaking point. I could take no more. I was pregnant with my sixth child. During my pregnancy the Home Office made things difficult – I could not get help as people required clearance before being allowed to visit me. How could I care for a sick husband and five children while pregnant?

I want to know how the majority of Christians in Britain prepare and share joy at the christening of their newborn children. Am I exempt from sharing my happiness with friends and family? Should I too not be allowed to show off my precious gift to others? Am I subhuman? I want to ask the politicians, the Queen – would this not affect you?

I tried to remain hopeful many times. But there is no hope. My husband has been charged with no crime, he has not been interviewed or interrogated. He has been presumed guilty because he is Muslim – for what other reason could it be? Please explain to me and my family – why have we had to endure this treatment? Pets are treated better than we have been. Is this the humanity you profess, is this the justice you want to spread?

Judge Ousley ordered and ruled that the Home Office should release the secret evidence that is held against my husband. But the Home Office appealed this decision and it has been a long time and nothing has been heard or seen.

On or around the 19 February this year, the European Courts of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights declared that the secret evidence being used against my husband be released to him and his solicitors. They said the control order should be lifted and that my husband should receive compensation for his unfair treatment. What is the point of these courts if Britain makes a mockery of them and refuses to submit to their judgment?

There is no justice. We have lost all hope of justice.

My family, especially our children, are scared of the police. The have suffered at the hands of the police. Their education has suffered. They have not been able to complete homework, they are at a disadvantage compared to other children as they are not allowed to access the internet. I have three girls in secondary school and three boys in primary school. I was attending college to study childcare. We all require a computer.

My husband was re-arrested for alleged breaches of his control order on at least four different occasions. Once he was arrested for having the Nintendo Wii which was the gift to our children. Once it was for having "mobile phones" in the home – they were actually toys purchased from the pound shop.

We, as a family, are dead. We are sick of the police and the Government's torture of our family that has gone on for eight years. Our family has been held hostage in Britain. My husband and I escaped torture at the hand of the Israelis to find worse torture in the UK. I now find myself in another country – J ordan – where I have sought asylum from the torture that Britain has placed me and my family under.

Psychiatrists from the Home Office advised me to divorce my husband, saying it would be better for me and my children. Scotland Yard on many occasions also told me this. What kind of twisted advice is this? Would this really be better for me and my children? Or are they looking for more reasons to drive my husband to suicide?

I have too many things to get off my chest. My heart is filled with anger. I am crying as I write this – it is all too much for me to remember. I have left my home to be in Jordan. My husband was not even allowed to accompany us to the airport. He is forbidden under the restrictions of his control order. Is it really likely that he can escape; he has no passport, no travel documents – where would he go?

As we left our home I knew, and he knew, that it was probably the last time we would see each other, the last time he would see, hold, hug and kiss his children. I had to watch my children crying at the thought of never seeing their father again. But I have no choice, I have been forced to leave.

Perhaps now I can try to repair the damage to my children; the emotional scars they will bear for how long I do not know. I can finally try to rid myself of the effects of the "Terrorist Act", the police, the searches and the torture I have had to witness my husband go through.

I still fear for my husband who is alone. He has made four suicide attempts – each time he has been serious. But Allah has not willed that he be successful.

The British public and Government complain about the effects of immigration and asylum seekers in the UK, about people coming to the country and claiming benefits. Why then do you force my husband to remain here? He has not been charged or convicted of a crime, yet you treat him this way .

I would like to tell the British Government and the rest of the world, I would like to tell anyone who has a heart, anyone who has an ounce of humanity – please allow my husband to leave the United Kingdom.

Please provide him with the necessary documents to go to any country, where there may be at least some hope of seeing him again – before I lose him for good and our children lose their father.

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justice
[info]khadija03021 wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 07:13 am (UTC)
i hope and pray that you are successful today and that you will be reunited as a family to be able to live the rest of your lives in peace.
[info]maryellenwood wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 07:49 am (UTC)
There is no mention of the employment this gentleman lost after he was arrested and placed under a control order. Was he in work or was the family of 5 children living on benefit?
What possible relevance has this...
[info]tallise wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 08:37 am (UTC)
... to the core issue?
Why is that relevant?
[info]cyberhippy13 wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 09:55 am (UTC)
Do basic human rights only apply to people who pay tax then? If so, bad luck for the elderly, the sick, and the severely disabled, people who worked for Woolworths.... etc.

I don't think you would have asked this question if he was white, Christian and his last name was Smith. But then, if he was white, Christian and called Smith, this never would have happened to him would it?
re: Mahmoud Abu Rideh
[info]flybye88 wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 07:51 am (UTC)
Awefull! Horrific!!

This the the Britain that must of us still associate with civility and a human touch?

What have things come to?

(RAF Veteran - incl. Yemen and Oman in 1968.)
Where is this?
[info]drlizmiller wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 08:13 am (UTC)
This is a country of which we should all be ashamed. Is this how we intend to live for the next 1,000 years? If not, what are we doing to improve on them?
[info]nick33332 wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 08:28 am (UTC)
This article was very biased and without any wider context at all. I understand the emotive nature of the case and the trauma of having a husband in jail but the government obviously had some reason to incarcerate him and subsequently place him on a control order. If the gentlemen was so traumatised by his experiences and "disabled" how was able to father a sixth child?
government must have a reason
[info]celticmallorcan wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 09:09 am (UTC)
you are labouring under s serious misunderstanding if you believe any government needs a real reason to do anything. They are and always have been laws unto themselves. Just because someone is in public service does not mean they are not still prone to the follies most other people suffer. The day you trust the government with your life or living is they day you give up that life. People need to realise this is just fact. People are only paid to care from 9-5pm and most of them can't even be bothered to do that.
[info]cyberhippy13 wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 10:05 am (UTC)
Yeah? Then habeas f***ing corpus.
[info]ligeia_bm wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 01:27 pm (UTC)
They might have had a reason to incarcerate him, but I'm 100% sure it wasn't legitimate. See, if it were, they would release the required info. When the govt. hides the so called proofs, it's because their ass is pretty dirty. Or in other words, they have NOTHING that could stand in a court of law and would allow them to keep this man legally under their thumb. You know what? For centuries, we have blasted the Church because they didn't allow the Inquisition prisoners to know who accused them, of what they were accused, and the proofs held against them. Doesn't it sound familiar to you? If THAT was an abuse against basic human rights, you bet THIS NOW is also an abuse. How come this guy is not allowed to know the proofs against him, and the charges brought against him? How dare you defend such basic atrocity? There is nothing right here. And you know what too? Many Britons here are squirming and blasting The Independent for posting this, because it shows the naked truth about the kind of brutal police regime Britain has become for those who aren't white and aren't Christian. This is called profiling. All it takes is to have the wrong skin colour, and be the wrong faith to become suspicious. And if you are a practicing member of that wrong faith? All the better. If we were to use your argument, then we have to conclude that the British govt. had good reasons to invade Iraq. I think it has been proved that no, it didn't really have ANY good reason to do so... Right? Another miscarriage of Justice, all in the name of greed. They have to show they are doing something, so they can claim they are earning their pay... If you can't see this, then you are blind, my friend.
[info]khalilio wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 08:33 am (UTC)
I'm trying to find words that will encourage you and your family but what you have experienced is truely awful.

All i can say is that true justice is not lost, ytou will find it in the akhira and for every hardship you face will be greeted with ease in the akhira.

this isn't the first time i've heard of innocent men being snatched up by the police with no evidence or trial only to be released under similar circumstances. But this is too extreme, i hope you find ease in your struggles and my prayers are with you and your family, you will one day look the tyrants in the eye and justice will be served, be certain of that.

A wifes story
[info]marysue52uk wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 08:42 am (UTC)
Let him and his family go why dont you? Has the world gone mad
Life with a control order
[info]yanne89 wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 08:47 am (UTC)
What you find in such a sad, distressing and heartfelt story such as this is the dark side of the Terrorist Act.
Jean Charles de Menezes was a victim in this so called prevention of terrorism, so was the family in Forest Gate who had their home raided, and this is just to name two events. However, these were high profile cases, and the Metropolitan Police were held to account for their actions even if, in the view of significant number of people, justice has not be delivered to the those who were affected by the death and victimisation of these people. How many more families have faced similar treatment under the guise of terrorist prevention that may not have had their cases highlighted such as in this article? Quite a lot I imagine. The case of this family is 'terrorism in reverse'. They have been brutalised, degraded, mentally and physically damaged, treated as inhumane for reasons which the powers that be incredibly refuse to disclose. The actions taken against this family by individuals and departments and organisations whose purpose is to uphold the principals of justice, fair treatment, civil liberty and the right to a life free from fear, injury and persecution have proved their ability to inflict the opposite. They have taught innocent minds to fear, mistrust and to hate. Have they perpetrated in the mind and hearts of people who are victims of such treatment and of those who read and hear these stories the facets of what the Terrorist Act is there to prevent and fight against?
I pray that this family will be able to one day be together again and are able to lead a life of relative peace and free of the heartache and despair that has blighted their lives in this country in the name of Terrorist Prevention.
Shaming
[info]billdavy1949 wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 08:52 am (UTC)
And I suppose one day Jack Straw (who used to be a socialist) will offer a miserable apology.

Perhaps we should have stocks back in front of parliament (for ministers who tolerate this sort of treatment).
RE: Mahmoud Abu Rideh
[info]gordon123 wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 10:44 am (UTC)

Even if only 50% of this article is true it is a damning indictment of what modern Britain has become. From being the envy of the world renowned for its sense of justice, compassion and fairness, Britain is reduced to a virtual police state, not dissimilar to some third world dictatorship, where imprisonment and torture take precedent over justice and legal procedure. Many people have fought and died for the freedom and justice that used to be the hallmark of Great Britain, it would appear that their sacrifice was in vain All those involved in the detention of this man should reflect long an hard on their involvement, is this how they really want Britain portrayed to the world ?
A truly shameful story
[info]richardcarter wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 10:56 am (UTC)
Dina Al Jnidi's story is truly heartrending: what has it come to that a supposedly civilised country can treat people like this? Really, it makes me ashamed and angry that such things are being done. It really is outrageous, there are so many things in this story that are bad that it's hard to know where to begin: with the way in which he is being treated as a suspect, the casual, brutal violence of arresting someone in full view of their family, of the continual vicious treatment of the whole family, even the children - my, you do have to be so careful because a play station or an MP3 player in the hands of a child can be so dangerous, can't they? How many cases have we read of children blowing up people with a Nintendo Wii? Oh, not really very many, is it, you stupid police people?

Then I read some idiot like nick33332 explaining it all away on the grounds that "the government obviously had some reason to incarcerate him and subsequently place him on a control order." What naive trust in the good intentions of government! But the whole point, nick, is that the government has never bothered to let the poor man know what he is supposed to have done or given him a chance to establish his innocence. One of the significant bases of a free society is that people are innocent until proved guilty, but that seems to have been reversed in cases like this - but how can you prove your innocence if you don't even know what you are supposed to have done or seen any evidence of it?

But it's all based on intelligence so that's all right - except that it isn't, because the intelligence is so often not intelligent at all. I remember at the time of the first Gulf War that many Iraqis living in Britain were arrested - only for the morons running counter-terrorism to discover what was obvious all along: that the dangerous people they'd arrested were obvious, long-term and public opponents of Saddam Hussein!

Then I read in the same paper that "some of the British Embassy's Iranian staff held in Tehran will be put on trial." That's appalling - but the government is going to find it difficult to complain about it's unfairness when the Iranians can simply point to the way in which Mahmoud Abu Rideh has been - and is still being - treated.
Re: A truly shameful story
[info]nick33332 wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 01:35 pm (UTC)
I still stand by my original comments. The article was written in an extremely one-sided way (as you would expect a wife to write when her husband has been jailed etc) and I was reacting to that fact. It was presented as "fact" when it was anything but objective and unbiased. The emotional tone, the repeated appeals to the Queen (of all people!) and such other histrionic touches should have been balanced with the real facts of the case. The article mentioned torture but she didn't go into any concrete details of this torture. I would have liked to have been given some facts about why this man come to Britain with his family? Why did they seek asylum here? I'm not saying the article was lies or nonsense but to have some balance would have been welcome. To state "While at Broadmoor, he was frequently attacked by staff, nurses and other prisoners" is emotive and cannot be proven. Of course people should be treated with respect and be able to go about their business without fear. But can any of us say with certainty that this man was not a terrorist or potential terrorist? How can you be sure that he wasn't an agitator and another potential suicide bomber. The fact that he has a wife and 6 children doesn't mean he can't also be someone who could hurt members of the public. Of course 99.9 % of Muslims are law-abiding and peace-loving but how can we be so sure that this man was one of them?

I for one am proud of this country and most of what it stands for. If this is a serious miscarriage of justice I have enough faith in this country that any wrongs will be put right. But it's easy to sit in your armchair and pontificate when you are not in possession of the full facts. None of us are and on the evidence of one case is it fair to call this country shameful? Be thankful you live in a country where you can freely express your opinions without being shut up or worse.

And please don't resort to cheap abuse such as calling people "idiots".
Re: A truly shameful story
[info]negordon wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 03:18 pm (UTC)
Nick, you ask some very valid questions. The precise details of the case are open to question and interpretation but the underlying principal of secretive evidence and detention without trial is what people rightly find abhorrent. It is precisely this sort of tyrannical behaviour by the authorities that denies the people the chance to find the answers to these questions in anything approaching a fair and judicial manner. It appears to me that you are perfectly comfortable in allowing the authorities to decide unilaterally what this man is "guilty" of and the punishment imposed. You are bestowing on this government tremendous unfettered power over every man, woman and child in this country, and history shows us all too clearly what the outcome can be for the people in those circumstances. I don't deny the govt had their "reasons", it's the legitimacy of those reasons that is rightly being questioned. I don't wish to be insulting but I believe you are being extremely naive.
Re: A truly shameful story
[info]ancientoneuk wrote:
Saturday, 4 July 2009 at 02:21 am (UTC)
Would you be so dismissive if this was as suggested somewhere else the writer was white and obviously Anglo-Saxon?

"...is emotive and cannot be proven"

Much of what the security services act on is pretty much that, people denounced over family feuds, malicious allegation, revenge, the reason the security services keep a majority of their "evidence" secret is because it wouldn't stand up in a court of law, they are arresting and incarcerating people on hearsay, rumour and supposition and as has been seen a great deal over the years this has been going on, happening to have the same, or similar sounding name or even being a friend of a friend of an acquaintance of a suspect...

That is seriously how flimsy it all is. And when the legal system accepts rumour, hearsay and happenstance as legal fact, then your faith in the system is flawed, the man shot and smeared in Forest Gate didn't see justice, Menendes failed to see justice, Ian Tomlinson will fail to see justice because the state cannot ever be wrong and will lie and whitewash to ensure that this is the status quo.

And just for arguments sake, if these traumatised children grow up with vengeance in their hearts and come back to Britain to pay back for the horrendous treatment of their father, mother and themselves... if they joined a terrorist group and started blowing the place up, WHO would be to blame here?
Mahmoud Abu Rideh
[info]mary_mck wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 02:34 pm (UTC)
I feel so sorry for Dina Al Jnidi, and I pray that she and her husband are reunited. I would just like to add that what she has experienced is not representative of how the majoprity of usbring up our families. What has happened to this country -we are forever being told that it is a fair and just land.
All religions have their radical fundamentalists. They also all teach their followers to do as they would be done by. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism - they all preach tolerance, and ask that we are kind to strangers. The Bible also says 'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone'.
You only have to look at the bigots in this country to see that these so-called Christians are just as bad as all other religious fanatics.
Justice
[info]mscullen15 wrote:
Saturday, 4 July 2009 at 05:57 pm (UTC)
@Nick33332

You stated and i quote 'Be thankful you live in a country where you can freely express your opinions without being shut up or worse.' Are you being serious? Please do not tell me you actually believe this! Open your eyes, their is no such thing as freedom of speech these days. Fair enough britain was once known as a multi cultural, freedom of speech country but britain is no longer that.

The goverment have made numerous mistakes over and over again yet they are allowed to get away with them? is that fair? that no justice had been given to this family that have been torn apart? children who have lost a father? a wife who's lost her husband?

This happens to mainly muslims, people hate to admit the truth but as muslims we are targeted for as you say 'freedom of speech'. please give me a case where say a christian family have been tormented? where a christian father has been abused, threatened and made to live like an animal? I think not.

So please i have nothing against people 'expressing their views' but do not start with the whole freedom of speech garbage, because i can tell you that i have seen many stories like this one. & what we just put it down to the goverment doing its job? and it's fine to ruin people's lifes for a reason that is 'disclosed'??

May Allah help this family and all the others who have been abused by this country and it's so called 'rules'. I hope that justice will be served and that this family will be re-united soon.
Mostly i hope that the goverment wakes up soon and realises that this can not keep happening over and over again without reasons.

Its about time the truth comes out.
No smoke without fire?
[info]kuma2000 wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 12:34 am (UTC)
One thing I have noticed with suspected and proven Islamic terrorists is that they try to play the societies by claiming innocence, victimization, ill treatment. The fact they may have been guilty of plotting to murder 100s of people is beside the point, they say you are racists, you tortured us, I am just a religious man who does a lot of praying. This tale is bursting with outlandish claims that all add up to an exaggerated story - torture, ill treatment, neighbours all hate you, police took children's toys. I would take all Mrs Rideh says with a pinch of salt.
Questions of evidence
[info]tinker77 wrote:
Monday, 6 July 2009 at 05:04 am (UTC)
Whilst this story seems to be very sad, it is not unheard of for a Muslim wife not to be aware of what their husband is up to, particularly where fundamentalist terrorism is concerned (think 7/7).

Did Dina Al Jnidi ever ask the question of her husband as to what he had been up to? Did she ever question why there would even be a suspicion from the UK government that he was involved such alleged behaviour, or whether he did in fact jeopordise her family by his actions in any way? Or is such questioning not considered acceptable from a wife within the established power dynamic of this relationship and therefore the heavy question hanging unasked in the air was unlikely to ever be answered?

Finalloy, why would Dina allow herself to become pregnant with her sixth child if she already knew the circumstances she was in at the time? Surely she knew that another child was unlikely to help in any way.

Seeking a blame agent is easier than looking at the circumstances and taking personal responsibility. It appears that perhaps Dina has finally determined to change her circumstances. I wish her well moving forward.
[info]adamknott1 wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 11:24 am (UTC)
I'm moved to agree in equal parts with the people that have offered sympathy and the people that have expressed slight worries over the factual nature of this article. I'm already entirely convinced of the dark side of the terrorism legislation that has been introduced in this country, and am a strong advocate of the founding principle that a person is innocent until they are proven otherwise. However, this piece reads in a manner not conducive to making a strong case for these things; as has been said, that's to be expected given the source, but one thing stands out. Not once during this article, packed full of emotion and grief and obviously powerful sentiments, does the person that wrote it assert that her husband is an innocent man. That does not mean he is guilty; far from it, and she may well believe that he is and have good reason to believe so. But the way in which this text is written, it's clear the author doesn't have a clear or correct understanding of

To reiterate: it is wrong that anybody can be detained without knowing the evidence against them, or without any such evidence existing. It is wrong that people can be treated in this manner, whoever they happen to be. It is wrong that, for want of a better expression, the secret police have a stranglehold on the British justice system. I do not doubt any of these things, but this article reads more as an incoherent rant by a wife who's upset her world was turned upside down, than any sort of firm argument or evidence of the treatment mentioned, and I am somehow moved to believe - in spite of my affiliations to groups like Liberty - that there may well have been just cause, at least initially, to detain the man this article is about.
Britain - What a State!!
[info]humandecency wrote:
Sunday, 27 September 2009 at 12:32 am (UTC)
The fact that this sequence of events can occur in Britain is a despicable outrage. It is a black mark on the forehead of every member of the apathetic British public. What's going on with British people, why have we allowed ourselves to sleep walk into this state of affairs? Is it that we are high on materialism, and as long as we are alright with our job, house, car, designer goods etc then thats all that matters? Has the loss of identify and community within the white British population contributed? Why are we are so dumb to have allowed conniving politicians like Blair and Bush to manipulate our fears of immigrants, "being swamped", terrorism etc and convince us that losing our liberties is in our best interests?

I really do hope that maryellenwood is not posting a serious question?! If you are, then, well, enough said! Its an outlook, very sadly echoed by significant numbers of pitiful, uneducated, hillbilly scrouts and scags who have turned Britain into an object of ridicule at home and abroad!!

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