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Patriotic, respectful and homophobic: a portrait of British Muslims' state of mind

Giant global survey reveals the opinions that shape nation's 2.4 million-strong Islamic population

By Chris Green

Three-quarters of British Muslims have faith in the police, compared to 67 per cent of the general public

AFP/GETTY IMAGES

Three-quarters of British Muslims have faith in the police, compared to 67 per cent of the general public

A startlingly candid snapshot of the views and beliefs of Muslims living in Britain today has been uncovered by the first-ever study of Islamic interfaith relations across the world. The reseach, a collaboration between Gallup and the Coexist Foundation, challenges the view that the country's 2.4 million Muslims are largely intolerant of the British way of life. British Muslims were found to identify more strongly with the UK than the rest of the population, and have a much higher regard for the country's institutions.

However, the poll also found that the vast majority of Muslims have extremely conservative views on moral issues such as homosexuality and the death penalty, which differ dramatically from those held by the rest of the UK population. The wide-ranging study, entitled The Gallup Coexist Index 2009, was based on data collected through polls of residents in more than 140 countries. More than 1,500 interviews were conducted in the UK alone.

77% said they strongly identified with UK

Perhaps the survey's most surprising finding was that more than three-quarters of British Muslims (77 per cent) said they identified "very strongly" with the UK, compared to just half (50 per cent) of the general public. This contradicts the idea that Muslims are outsiders who have little in common with the UK, and is further borne out by a second statistic: 82 per cent said British Muslims were loyal to the country. Professor Ziauddin Sardar, a London-based scholar who specialises in the future of Islam, said that British Muslims with Pakistani or Middle Eastern heritage are all too aware of the troubles in their homelands and can see the UK's benefits better than those who have lived here for generations. "They look at the stability of Britain and appreciate it deeply," he said.

0% thought that homosexuality was morally acceptable

Not a single British Muslim said homosexuality was morally acceptable, compared to 58 per cent of the general public who believed it was. In other European countries with large Muslim populations such as France and Germany, the difference was far less pronounced: more than a third of French Muslims said they did not have a problem with homosexuality.

However, Shelina Zahra Janmohamed, who has written a book about growing up in Britain as a Muslim woman, said the UK's apparently stark contrast did not necessarily point to a divided society. "Part of the British way is that you can have your own opinions as long as you can live harmoniously with others."

76% had confidence in the police

British Muslims were found to have faith in the police, with 76 per cent saying they trusted them compared to 67 per cent of the general public. They were also found to be more likely to have confidence in the Government, the judicial system, financial institutions and the media. "British Muslims and their parents have sometimes had personal experience of societies which are not democratic and where the rule of law is not always followed," said Professor Sardar. "They are not yet disillusioned with the systems of governance, in the way that those who have lived here for generations might be. There is still a lot of expectation."

3% felt that sex outside marriage was morally acceptable

Extra-marital sex was deemed morally acceptable by only three per cent of Muslims, compared to 82 per cent of the general public. And while 15 per cent of the general public considered adultery morally acceptable, only two per cent of Muslims felt the same way. The attitudes of Muslims in France and Germany is very different, where 48 per cent and 27 per cent had no problem with sex outside wedlock. This discrepancy is likely to be caused by the fact that British Muslims mainly originate from rural parts of conservative Islamic countries such as Pakistan, Bangladesh and India, whereas French and German Muslims tend to be from Morocco, Algeria and Turkey, where the culture is different.

63% thought that the death penalty was morally acceptable

More Muslims said they believed in the death penalty than the general public, of whom 50 per cent said they regarded such a policy as morally acceptable. This stance tallies with Sharia law, which allows for both corporate and capital punishment. Sharia still provides a moral framework for many moderate Muslims, and many would have answered this question without hesitation.

3% believed people belonging to other religions threaten their way of life

British Muslims appear to be a lot more tolerant than the rest of the UK population when it comes to accepting other religions. More than a quarter of the general public (26 per cent) said they felt the above statement was accurate. According to Professor Sardar, tolerance of other faiths is an important part of Islam and the handful of British Muslims who felt it was under attack could safely be called extremists. "The vast majority of Muslims believe that Christianity and Judaism are not just viable religions but also contain part of the ultimate truth," he said.

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Completely misguiding evidence
[info]starance wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 12:21 am (UTC)

A minority of Muslims were interviewed and now it's being portrayed all over the Nation that "all Muslims are more patriotic than Brits".

Come on, this has to be completely ridiculous... especially, when people are believing (psychologically) that this "VERY SMALL" number of Muslims interviewed represents them all.

It wont be posted, because this multicultural paper, and journalist is probably all over this going... Yay, Yay, Yay... idoits.
Crackpot Mullahs are not Muslims !!
[info]drug_baron wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 04:01 am (UTC)
Finally we have a report which does not listen to the "Crackpot Mullahs".

Crackpot Mullahs are not muslim; they are simply crackpots; but don't the media love these Crackpot Mullahs; especially the Red-Tops.

Whenever a Red-Top Hack gets into bed with a Crackpot Mullah you get some real fruity report on Muslims; but now finally it looks like the tide of common sense is returning.
Re: Completely misguiding evidence - [info]peteran - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 07:02 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Completely misguiding evidence - [info]zurruq - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 07:27 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Completely misguiding evidence - [info]nightside242 - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 08:16 am (UTC) Expand
"Idoit" yourself - [info]findempire - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 08:23 am (UTC) Expand
Re: "Idoit" yourself - [info]starance - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 04:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Completely misguiding evidence - [info]thekhan_52 - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 01:14 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Completely misguiding evidence - [info]rujokin - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 05:41 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Completely misguiding evidence - [info]starance - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 04:51 pm (UTC) Expand
The English
[info]ascot7 wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 12:57 am (UTC)
Muslims are in a safe bet country !, but they have to be mindfull of extremism. I admire their view of our England. English people have slid backwards into the abyss, as they do not do as the lord has told them to obay, which is the bible. Everything the Britts do is to me , ''repugnant '' in the way of life in England. They have lost it 100 %, no morals, no ideals, only for flesh and money, English woman will walk out on their husbands, if they feel that he is not bringing in the bacon properly. It is all about them, false, with tatoo, silly rings in their mouth, how low have they stooped ?.and godless. and their way of life, and their husbands, they go off to the footy !. in stead of church.Within 30 or 50 years, England will be a Muslim state, WITH THEIR LAWS, AND THEY WILL MOCK THE SILLY BRITTS.
Re: The English
[info]sickofstupidity wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 11:15 am (UTC)
ascot7,

You should check yourself into hospital for emergency brain surgery; you have obviously been infected by a particularly virulent and nasty strain of the Christian mind-virus; it is warping the way you think and perceive the world, and it requires immediate surgical removal before it drives you mad - if it hasn't already.
Re: The English - [info]collin_brown - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 01:32 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]drug_baron wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 03:57 am (UTC)
Britain is the nearest to a Muslim State; certainly Saudi Arabia is not a "Muslim State"; Saudi practices are the most un-Islamic of all; firstly it does not practice the Islamic tenet of "All men are equal"; secondly its judicial system is four-tiered which is again against the tenets of Islam; it has an absolute monarchy which is against Islam; and of course it has the biggest alcohol and drug addiction problem within its own elite.

So it comes as no surprise that British Muslims regard Britain as an Islamic state. The courts are fair; society is fair; education for all irrespective of social standing; health care for all..........................ok ok there are some irregularities here and there, but overall the tenets of Islam are best practiced by Britain in reality but not in name.

Amen
[info]fuadjinnah wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 08:01 am (UTC)
I totally agree with Drug Baron. Infact Drug Baron wins his argument hands down !
Nooraza..........you are such a dear ! - [info]drug_baron - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 09:28 am (UTC) Expand
Check out the Pakistan Police Force
[info]plimfix wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 05:52 am (UTC)
British people who have no experience of the rest of the world outside of holiday resorts might appreciate the police more if, like some Muslims, they had visited or knew people who had visited and lived in countries like Pakistan, where the police - many of whom are paid pittance - are not exactly a paragon of virtue. A friend of mine married a Sri Lankan guy and when he arrived in Britain, he was shocked that no one here is actually SCARED of the police. And so they shouldn't be. It's a good thing.
(no subject) - [info]thomas_66 - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 11:47 am (UTC) Expand
corporate punishment!
[info]fag_ash_lil wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 06:59 am (UTC)
I'm all for corporate capital punishment, lets string up those bankers now ;-)
corporate punishment?!
[info]fag_ash_lil wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 07:02 am (UTC)
I'm all for corporate punishment - let's string up those bankers now ;-)
Muslims in Britain
[info]haywales wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 07:20 am (UTC)
This is not news. Last year a book (Young British Muslim Voices) was published reporting research by Dr Anshuman Mondal of Brunel University. In it he showed that most young Muslims (who are often thought of as being the most extreme) are frequently the best contributors to British civic society, who value our institutions and contribute to wide numbers of charities in time and money. IN a society racked by drugs and alcohol and STDs, it is a good thing to have people, such as mainstream Muslims who support our democratic and civic society and have clear moral standards.
starance
[info]dispylala wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 07:26 am (UTC)
You will probably find 1500 interviews across a population of 1.5 million to be a very good representation.
"People of the Book"
[info]gary_raven wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 07:30 am (UTC)
It is written in the Koran that THE ONLY valid religions apart from Islam itself (which is the superior truth and revelation) are Christianity and Judaism. All well and good. Indeed, talking to most Muslims, they will always repeat the mantra that their's is a "tolerant religion". However, unwaveringly, what is always left out is mention of the "non-Abrahamic" faiths - Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, whatever-ism. According to Islam, people of these other faiths - the ones who through ignorance, choice or polytheistic rejection, are regarded with private or implicit religious disdain. The last paragraph is typically disingenuous. Modern British Christians and Jews are the ones who generally have no cultural or religious issues vis-a-vis ANY other religions. Islam is only seemingly tolerant within the limited and constrained tenets of its dogmas. Basically, Islam is intolerant of all religions as it regards itself as THE superior truth, and only tolerates Christianity and Judaism because followers are instructed to and it is thought in their theology that Abraham was really a Muslim. QED.
Re: "People of the Book"
[info]paul999 wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 08:01 am (UTC)
But where does the tooth fariy fit in all of this?
Re: "People of the Book" - [info]copycat7 - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 02:33 pm (UTC) Expand
Why I love Britain and its freedom of expression!
[info]zantafio wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 07:48 am (UTC)
starance makes a strong comment. He states what he deems obvious. His comment is published as it is... that's what I call freedom of expression.

Not that I agree with what he says... that's his opinion. It is an exaggeration but I must it has some truth in it. (Please do not see any endorsement to starance's opinion).

I am French, but I have lived most of my life , studied and worked in the UK. Yesterday, on the French edition of slate.com I also made a strong point about the Jewish community. I wrote, in short, that a significant part of the Jewish community supported Zionism and the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. That Zionism had managed to infiltrate banking, politics and media through. To me this stating the "bleeding obvious". I do not see this as being a racist comment. Nevertheless my post was censored!

The beauty of Britain is that, in your country, one can really say and write what one thinks.
Re: Why I love Britain and its freedom of expression!
[info]starance wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 04:35 pm (UTC)

"The beauty of Britain is that, in your country, one can really say and write what one thinks." - Posted by zantafio

Well, this is slightly true. But, there are a lot of papers/media that are either pro-Labour or pro-Conservative etc or with similar views that go around deleting posts/comments that are negative to their own view points.


What I was trying to point out, was that these figures are only from a fraction of the entire Muslim population in Britain, and are now being portrayed by many journalists to represent all of the Muslim community - you will notice this from various other articles that are written up my Muslim journalists, they tend to leave our that only around 500 or so were interviewed.

anyway, I don't care... If people are blind and accept that they are integrating, then obviously Church's being converted into Mosques, and foreign Imam's etc are just a figment of my imagination.
British Muslims
[info]nobbynorton wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 07:54 am (UTC)
This is all well and good when interviewing a select few but I bet the interviewing team have never been in a Muslim area of any city or large town on a Saturday night, or any other night come to that. Some of these areas are even feared by the police. Muslims like it here because they are protected under the discrimination laws of this country. One can only be a racist if one is white. It must be greatto be a Muslim in the UK, a lot safer than in 'proper' Muslim countries, and they can preach their hate with the backing of the law with no fear of repercussions, and do all the things that they'd be strung up for back home!
Re: British Muslims
[info]punjab5 wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 08:34 am (UTC)
Absolutely right. There are no sectarian killings or bombings in the UK.(for the moment). Sunnis killing shias. shias killing sunnis.
As it in the land of the pure. PAKISTAN.
[info]chriswol wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 08:02 am (UTC)
It doesn't help that you cannot spell itiots (!)
ENGLAND
[info]nwovance wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 08:12 am (UTC)
Ok the fact that there are a large number of Muslims in Britain is fine, full blooded English atheist i care not for what religion or not you choose. But do not come to our country and expect to change our lifestyle and morals because thay are not suited too your religious views, this is Great Britain not Pakistan or Islam. You wouldn't like the British to come over there and start demanding certain morals and lifestyles, because we are a completely different culture for better or for worse. Nether of us are perfect but be happy your in a country that is well run and safe to live in.

vance.
Re: ENGLAND
[info]phrooq wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 08:42 am (UTC)
nvowance

You wouldn't like the British to come over there and start demanding certain morals and lifestyles, because we are a completely different culture for better or for worse. Nether of us are perfect but be happy your in a country that is well run and safe to live in.


But they did. Haven't you read your history???
Re: ENGLAND - [info]zahradelaplata - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 01:54 pm (UTC) Expand
Some of these comments are very amusing
[info]larkspur_14 wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 08:22 am (UTC)
The authoritarian, patriotic, capital punishment loving bigots who want to keep England pure and white share a large number of attitudes and values with the muslim immigrants they loathe. And oh, how they hate that!
It's the media...
[info]sara_sense wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 08:27 am (UTC)
It's the media who gave the impression that Muslim = extremism, in real life those of us who knew Muslims know it's not true. There's extremists in all walks of life whether they follow a religion or not, as drug_baron said; a crack-pot is a crack-pot!

Now someone's gone to the trouble of doing a study to tell us what all rational people already knew can we just get on with our lives please?
MUSLIMS DON'T GO AROUND THE WORLD WITH F16s BOMBING BABIES OVER LIES.
[info]djangovsartana wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 08:32 am (UTC)
MUSLIMS DON'T GO AROUND THE WORLD WITH F16s BOMBING MEN WOMEN AND BABIES IN THEIR THOUSANDS OVER LIES.
MULIMS DID NOT COLONISE, LOOTED AND KILLED MILLIONS OF NATIVES AROUND THE WORLD.
Re: MUSLIMS DON'T GO AROUND THE WORLD WITH F16s BOMBING BABIES OVER LIES.
[info]xyberia44 wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 09:04 am (UTC)
Oh yes they did, Colonise, Looted and Killed Millions, :D Another example of an ignorant leading the blind... According to this survey Muslims are a the new BNP converts, maybe they should start a party called the BMNP, with 2.4 million they would surely win seats in Westminster,


"When a nation is filled with strife, then do patriots flourish." -Lao Tzu.

The more laws and restrictions there are, The poorer people become.
The sharper the weapons, The more trouble in the land.
The more rules and regulations, The more thieves and robbers.

Inconsistencies
[info]sheumais wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 08:38 am (UTC)
My preference is to believe human nature is more influential than any other factor and faith is not the decisive factor in the lives of the majority of the population. That contrasts with the need for most to be led and the comfort taken from not having to make decisions individually.

If, as some believe, Islam encourages dishonesty to infidels, then this survey is entirely meaningless. If, as some believe, true adhesion to the teachings of Islam requires they be revered above all other rules or laws, then no true Muslim can serve in public office, as first loyalty must be to Queen and country. That flies in the face of a claim they identify with this country.

The final two quoted responses, death penalty and other religions, beg the questions for what should you be put to death and other religions may not threaten your way of life, but do you threaten theirs?
Death penalty and religions
[info]zahradelaplata wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 01:22 pm (UTC)
To say that only religious minded people wants death penalty is a bulls*t. It only shows how self centered European laicists/atheist are. They believe their values universal, and the only right ones. Just like a religious dogma. See. here in Argentina people is demanding death penalty. They are even talking about a plebiscite to change the law. It will not happen, because the treaties the country has signed have Constitutional force, and these specifically ban death penalty. Hence any bill passed by the Congress will be immediately rejected because it would unconstitutional. Anyway, there had been marches and rallies and petitions to instate the death penalty, due to the insecurity and a few savage murders. It's not merely "religion based".
Growing conservatism
[info]noctilien wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 08:40 am (UTC)
The picture of French muslims is also misleading : they have been, and continue to be increasingly conservative in a society that is becoming increasingly liberal with regards to homosexuality and free speech., More and more muslin women are wearing muslim garb whether by choice or by family pressure. They do not watch French TV for the most part preferring to watch Arab TV,

As for tolerance, again it depends on the question : ask them what they think of muslims who convert to christianity or other religions. Here is France, many approve of the Sharia punishment for such 'apostates' : death.
Re: Growing conservatism
[info]zahradelaplata wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 01:44 pm (UTC)
And why this is bad, I wonder? Do you also condemn Orthodox Jews (men and women) who wear their ow religious garb? Do you also condemn Orthodox Jews who I can assure you, won't see TV either? Or better don't speak about Jews, lest someone think you are antisemitic? Why if Jews do it is OK, and if Muslims do it it's extremism? And in any case, aren't we talking about being "tolerant"? What part of being tolerant didn't you understand? I mean, I think having different views and dressing differently from mainstream is OK, not illegal and part of the right of people. Or will you go banishing Goths next? They too dress different and have their own subculture, you know. Some even commit crimes. Like some of the mainstream population. See? This is typical Western hypocrisy. You speak of tolerating other people's views, until you find some people ho don't think your PC thinking is the Holy Grail of civilization. Then, you think you have to force them to think about you, or they will be seen with contempt, distrust and even hate. What's to you that women choose wear hijab? Why is it so offensive to you? After all, women's problems are NOT centered on the way they dress you know. Why do they have to be forced to leave Islamic garb, as they do in France? Don't you realize how paternalistic is that too? Daddy French State (together with some feminist accomplices) decide what's better for Muslim women, and then, they tell them "from now on, you won't wear those rags, if you want to have a job or study. We do it for your own good." That's EXACTLY the reason why many women are back wearing hijab at all. We are SICK and TIRED of "well meaning" Westerners who want to "civilize us" (meaning, think as they do, how's that for tolerance?) In any case, it should be our choice. And you forget the most important point: wearing hijab, and having certain beliefs is a MATTER OF CONSCIENCE. Since when EU has become a Gulag, regulating our conscience and what we can or cannot think or believe? Hijab is a religious obligation. As it's going to Mass, or following the rules of Tzniut (modesty) for Orthodox Jews. So it's a matter of CONSCIENCE. Therefore, stop meddling with my conscience, stop meddling with my wardrobe. I' not telling YOU what to believe, how to think or how to dress. So, stop telling ME how to do these things. It's MY choice, as yours it's yours. THAT's what real tolerance is about. Looking down on someone or feeling alarm or disgust because they don't share your opinion or beliefs or way of dressing is INTOLERANT, you know. So, i I don't tell you what to believe or think, or dress, what makes you think you are entitled to do so with me? Your ancestry?
Oh dear
[info]sheumais wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 08:47 am (UTC)
MUSLIMS DON'T GO AROUND THE WORLD WITH F16s BOMBING MEN WOMEN AND BABIES IN THEIR THOUSANDS OVER LIES.

They would have done if they were sold to them. Remind me, what faith was Saddam Hussein?

MULIMS DID NOT COLONISE, LOOTED AND KILLED MILLIONS OF NATIVES AROUND THE WORLD.

Well maybe Saddam's too obvious a choice, maybe the warlords of Afghanistan could be considered this time. How about Iran, that's a haven of peace and tranquility, isn't it? By the way, what's the problem with Israel again? Why is it Pakistan thought it needed nuclear weapons?

Using upper case doesn't make your comments any more persuasive, but facts might.
Re: Oh dear
[info]manplant wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 09:32 am (UTC)
Please remind me what Iran did to other nations?
As for Pakistan, maybe they need nuclear weapons for the same reason as Israel, their neighbours.
As for Saddam, he was encouraged to invade Iran on behalf of the USA and was armed to the teeth to do so. In fact Saddam was a leader of a secular party (Baath) who were progressive socialists and copied Stalin in the way they ran the state. Nothing Islamic there, maybe Jewish (socialist / communist / Marx / Trotsky etc. ) but not islamic.
Why does ISRAEL need 3 German built diesel powerd submarines with NUCLEAR armed CRUISE MISSILES? They can blow up the whole of Europe and most of the USA as well as the Middle East. Are they tools of blackmai?
Re: Oh dear - [info]sheumais - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 10:11 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Oh dear - [info]manplant - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 10:19 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Oh dear - [info]sheumais - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 10:38 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Oh dear - [info]manplant - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 10:48 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Oh dear - [info]sheumais - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 11:33 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Oh dear - [info]manplant - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 11:43 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Oh dear - [info]sheumais - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 12:15 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Oh dear - [info]manplant - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 01:15 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Oh dear - [info]sheumais - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 01:28 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Oh dear - [info]manplant - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 02:25 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Oh dear - [info]sheumais - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 02:40 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Oh dear - [info]sheumais - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 03:35 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Oh dear - [info]manplant - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 04:25 pm (UTC) Expand
muslim views on the non-religious?
[info]jaffgyp wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 08:51 am (UTC)
as always we hear nothing about all the non-religious folk - so tell me, what do uk muslims think about all the assorted ron-religious good uk citizens ?
Re: muslim views on the non-religious?
[info]manplant wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 09:36 am (UTC)
Probably the same as UK Christians, Jews, Hindus etc. Every one has his own opinion. Just as you have your own opinion no matter what religion you are (if any) so does a member of any other religion.
I Muslims or Christians or Jews etc. were made in a factory, then they may all have the same opinion but as members of the human race each one is different. I would have thought that was obvious but maybe it's intellectually easier for some people to stereo type.
Re: muslim views on the non-religious? - [info]jaffgyp - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 01:01 pm (UTC) Expand
Finding out what people think
[info]frwilliams wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 09:02 am (UTC)
Isn't it a good idea to actually find out what most Muslims think, as these surveys have attempted to do, instead of relying on the old stereotypes and misinformation put about by right-wing activists? As soon as we discover that most British Muslims are actually in favour of traditional British values - even if a little old-fashionedly so - the right-wingers start trying to throw doubt on the credibility of the findings. What makes them think that a 'select few' Muslims were polled? 1500 seems a pretty large sample to me.

As others have pointed out, being homophobic, supporting the death penalty, believing that the woman's place is in the home, and being fiercely patriotic, the average Muslim would be an ideal BNP voter - many are also for curbs on immigration, though this was not highlighted in the article. Except that the BNP wants to send them all back to their country of origin, says that the Muslim faith is evil, and says that it it is impossible to be both non-white and British. No wonder they are upset to find that the vast majority of Muslims don't fit the stereotype they are constantly pushing.
Re: Finding out what people think
[info]manplant wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 09:44 am (UTC)
And who would the BNP turn on after the Muslims? Jews, Catholics, gays, disabled, non BNP members, non C of E members? What happens if a C of E vicar came out against the BNP? Would he be imprisoned? What if the Queen didn't agree with them? The problem with politics based on hate is that you always need something to hate. They would always need to single some section of the community out in order to blame for their failings. Eventually it would be wars against our neighbours to deflect attention. Maybe they would use religion to threten people as they do in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
RB
[info]quietlyfuming wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 09:05 am (UTC)
I cannot help but think that any survey like this one tells us nothing. It fiddles round the edges.
I have never known a time in my 65 years that wherever I am and to whoever I speak, one person or many persons, old people or young people, the conversation turns in very short order to immigration. Not particularly the race or religion of the imigrants but the sheer swamping nature of the influx. A society needs time to absorb change over generations if it is not to feel under siege or invasion. The major cities of Britain have been given over already to immigrants . Luton, Birmingham, Leicester, Nottingham, Derby, Sheffield, Leeds, Bradford, Manchester etc etc. If a survey is needed........just walk down any street in any major town in Britain and see how it has changed in less than 20 years. Integration does not seem to be on the agenda. Takeover does. A referendum and a proper discussion on immigration with the people is vital. Send out "plain clothes" interviewers because when asked in an official way political correctness has a lot to answer for.
Re: RB
[info]peteran wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 09:44 am (UTC)
Quietlyfuming wrote: "I have never known a time in my 65 years that wherever I am and to whoever I speak, one person or many persons, old people or young people, the conversation turns in very short order to immigration."

Get out more. Get new friends. Get a life.
NOT REPRESENTATIVE
[info]marxistfuture wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 09:10 am (UTC)
As interesting as this is, these studies that are so frequently rolled out, are highly unrepresentative of the 'UK' as a whole. In order for those interviewed to be truely representative people from different areas of Britain (particularly so as to off-set the London/everywhere-else issue), different economic backgrounds, different country of origin, different schooling background, etc.

Now, because of the already small number of people interviewed here, if this study did actually do this, then the number of people from each social niche would be so small as to be non-representative anyway.

In no way can Muslims, British or otherwise, be characterised from this study.

I wouldn't even pass one of my Master's student thesis based on a study like this.

"Go back and do it again, and this time make some effort: Grade. 52%"
Now ask another group
[info]robbkk wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 09:14 am (UTC)
Why don't Gallup ask the same questions from Jews, or from Nationalist Party members and see the comparisons. See then who is tolerant of gays or who has confidence in the police!
How deliberatly misleading.
[info]collin_brown wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 09:15 am (UTC)
Point (1). "3% felt that sex outside marriage was morally acceptable" Which actually means, 97% felt that sex outside marriage was morally unacceptable.

Point (2). "British Muslims appear to be a lot more tolerant than the rest of the UK population when it comes to accepting other religions". What? Islam is THE most intolerant ideology the world has ever seen. Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhN6CG1zCRc


Re: How deliberatly misleading.
[info]manplant wrote:
Friday, 8 May 2009 at 09:53 am (UTC)
Are single mothers living on state benefit acceptable? Are they not the target of abuse by a large section of the British population seen by them as taking their hard earned tax contributions? Sex outside marriage is acceptable until you think about the consequences, ie a broken society and abortions. If you don't criticise sex outside marriage then you shouldn't criticise the consequences. Saying that, people who have sex outside marriage (as I have had) do so knowing it's wrong. Just because you do it doesn't mean you shouldn't criticise it.
Broken Britain - [info]corporeal4now - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 03:59 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Broken Britain - [info]collin_brown - Friday, 8 May 2009 at 04:10 pm (UTC) Expand
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