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Shocking suicide toll on combat veterans

Tories demand better mental health care for troops returning from front

By Nigel Morris and Kim Sengupta

The cortege of hearses passes through Wootton Bassett yesterday

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The cortege of hearses passes through Wootton Bassett yesterday

Britain faces a "ticking timebomb" of mental illness and suicide among young Army veterans who return from hand-to-hand combat in Afghanistan, the Conservatives will warn today.

A lack of mental health care for veterans, combined with the stress of fighting the Taliban, will mean many survivors of the conflict pay a heavy price in psychological problems and self harm, according to David Cameron and the shadow Defence Secretary Liam Fox.

As the bodies of eight soldiers – including three teenagers – killed in a bloody 24 hours in Helmand were repatriated yesterday, mental health experts joined the politicians in warning that not enough was being done to care for returning members of the armed forces.

Research suggests that veterans aged 18 to 23 are up to three times more likely to commit suicide than their civilian counterparts. Setting out plans today to boost mental health care for returning troops, Mr Fox and Mr Cameron will argue that more veterans of the Falklands campaign and the first Gulf War killed themselves after quitting the forces than died in action.

An estimated 264 Falklands veterans have committed suicide since the conflict ended, compared with 255 soldiers killed in action, according to an ex-servicemen's organisation.

Twenty-four British soldiers died during the 1991 Gulf War, but the Ministry of Defence disclosed last year that 169 veterans of the conflict had died from "intentional self-harm" or in circumstances that led to open verdicts at inquests.

Mr Fox told The Independent: "The suicide figures for past conflicts are deeply concerning. I worry that with the intensity of current operations in Afghanistan we are building up a timebomb of mental health problems."

David Hill, director of operations for the charity Combat Stress, said it took an average of 14 years for veterans to ask for help with post-traumatic stress disorder. Many suffered in silence – often harbouring suicidal thoughts – because they were reluctant to admit to their vulnerability.

Mr Hill said: "Servicemen and women are exposed to stresses that most people won't be exposed to in their lives. In Afghanistan, they are exposed to them quite early in their careers. There is a general lack of understanding about how intense these stresses can be."

A study by Manchester University this year found that ex-servicemen under 24 were between two and three times more likely to kill themselves than men of the same age from outside the forces.

Researchers suggested three possible reasons: that they were already more vulnerable to suicide before joining up; that they had trouble re-adapting to civilian life; or that they were affected by "exposure to adverse experiences".

Professor Nav Kapur, one of the report's authors, warned: "Young men leaving the armed forces appear to be at a higher risk. That needs to be recognised and action taken."

Kevan Jones, the Veterans minister, said: "We have made great progress both in the treatment of mental health problems and in reducing the stigma associated with seeking help. I'm working with the NHS to make sure GPs are telling veterans about the support available, such as the six community mental health schemes we have set up specifically tailored for veterans."

The Cabinet discussed the growing bloodshed in Afghanistan as the political controversy over the Government's tactics intensified. Fifteen UK soldiers were killed in a 10-day spell last week, bringing the number of deaths since 2001 to 184. Downing Street insisted yesterday that the Army was "making progress" in its attacks on Taliban positions in Helmand, but acknowledged British troops were facing a "critical period".

A spokesman for Gordon Brown said: "The clear view coming out of Cabinet was that we do have the right approach in Afghanistan." He denied Mr Brown had chosen the cheapest option for reinforcing the British forces by sending 700 extra troops rather than the 2,000 requested by military chiefs.

The head of the British Army disclosed yesterday that the military will review strategy in the light of the recent surge in deaths. General Sir Richard Dannatt said: "We have got to think through the way we operate, the resources we have got, the numbers... to make sure we have given ourselves the absolute best chance of succeeding."

Senior officers will analyse details from the latest combat in Helmand to ascertain what lessons can be learned. In particular they will examine how the Taliban are honing their use of roadside bombs and mines.

Stressing that withdrawal was not an option, General Dannatt said: "This mission is really important. If we were to pull out unilaterally, just come out of the mission... frankly, the consequences will be catastrophic."

Meanwhile 140 extra troops from the 2nd Battalion Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment, currently based in Cyprus, are being deployed to Afghanistan to assist with the offensive against the Taliban in Helmand, codenamed Operation Panther's Claw.

What are the other members of Nato doing to help us?

Q. Why have there been such levels of recrimination over British troop numbers in Afghanistan? What is the situation now?

A. The UK deployment of about 4,000 troops to Afghanistan in 2006 took place against the background of a major commitment in Iraq. Commanders were concerned about "overstretch" and fighting on two fronts. Since then, the force in Afghanistan has reached 9,100 troops. When the UK began withdrawing from southern Iraq, the US wanted some forces diverted to Afghanistan. Senior British officers wanted 2,000 to 2,500 more troops sent to Helmand. A troop shortage meant ground won from the Taliban could not be held and it was felt that with up to 22,000 US troops heading to the country's south, including to Helmand, the British had to raise their numbers to maintain credibility. Gordon Brown opted for the lowest commitment option: a temporary deployment of 700 for the Afghan elections. The decision sparked controversy and will be reviewed after the autumn election. It is expected the 700 will become permanent and an additional force sent.

Q. What has been the British strategy in Afghanistan since 2006?

A. John Reid, the then defence secretary, said he hoped the mission would end "without a shot being fired in anger". Since then, about six million rounds are thought to have been fired. From the start of the mission, UK policy seemed confused and drifting. The official mission statement was that troops would help bring governance to a traditionally lawless part of the country and assist in poppy eradication. But they charged off to outlying areas and set up platoon houses, in effect inviting Taliban attacks. The operation ran counter to a plan by General (now Sir) David Richards, the British commander of Nato forces, which called for secure areas to be set up around larger towns, where reconstruction could begin. Instead, swaths of Helmand turned into battlefields, and there was little development.

Q. Gordon Brown has asked for more Afghan government troops to be based in Helmand. Why? And how effective will this be?

A. Nato's aim is for Afghans to provide their own security but it will be a while before they can. Mr Brown has said the Afghan forces should hold ground which British forces cannot, effectively acknowledging there are not enough British forces on the ground. About 11 per cent of the 85,000-strong Afghan army are in Helmand, which has seen almost half of recent fighting. But much of the Afghan force is still training. The plan is to expand the Afghan forces to 134,000. But even that number would seem unlikely to be able to meet a Taliban emergency which is recruiting international jihadists and is supported by elements in the Pakistani military and intelligence. Iraq, with a similar population, has about 600,000 in its force.

Q. What about contributions from other Nato countries?

A. No less than 42 countries contribute to the International Security Assistance Force. But many contingents, including some from Nato countries, operate under caveats which restrict what they are allowed to do, rendering them virtually ineffective in combat scenarios. The UK and US have demanded that other Western states should do more. The Canadians have the worst fatality rate, losing 126 personnel from a force of 2,800. The British have lost 185 out of 9,000 and the Americans, 723 from 60,000. The deadliest attack was on a French unit last August; 10 soldiers died in an engagement 40 miles from Kabul.

Kim Sengupta

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What about WWII, Malaya, etc?
[info]jaded63 wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 02:28 am (UTC)
Why does nobody ever ask about the post-conflict stress experienced by British armed forces veterans of WWII, the Korean War, the Malayan insurgency, the conflict in Cyprus, The Suez operation, the undeclared war with Indonesia in the mid-60s, the Aden conflict, and so on and so on? It's as if those veterans never had any problems. In fact they must have done, and why is there no effort to compare their outcomes with what has happened from the Falklands War onwards? It would surely be instructive.

One might also reflect that nobody ever asks what kind of conflict and post-conflict stress is experienced by our enemy: It would surely also be instructive to find out what effect they experience, and to compare it with that of our own forces.
Re: What about WWII, Malaya, etc?
[info]alanski wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 06:58 am (UTC)
I did my National Service in Malaya and sure there were many stresses from that conflict. The one thing just before leaving I do remember is the de kitting of the Reservists who came back from the Suez campaign. They were very angry, destroyed their kit and were close to mutiny. I remember thinking at the time these guys are carrying alot of hate for the military and there I was about to go to country that I had no conception about.
Re: What about WWII, Malaya, etc?
[info]jaded63 wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 10:48 am (UTC)

That's interesting. I wonder, though, what the incidence of self-harming and suicide was among those soldiers post-conflict. I now know only two living veterans: a Para who was dropped into Normandy one minute after midnight on D-Day, and an infantryman who served in Cyprus and was also among those sent in at Suez.

The Para, despite seeing and hearing terrible things in Normandy, getting wounded within two days, recuperating and subsequently being dropped in on the Rhine operation, then after the war also experiencing some pretty bad things in Indonesia, where the British were stationed pre-independence, has never self-harmed, never contemplated suicide, and never referred to or showed any signs of post-traumatic stress disorder.

The infantryman strongly supported what Britain did in Cyprus and Suez, he also saw some traumatic scenes, but never showed any PTSD and is a strong supporter of the National Front (no, I'm not NF, as I've stated in previous posts on other threads).

Of course, a couple of examples don't prove anyth8ing about the full picture. But I do sometimes wonder if diferrent outlooks in a different age have anything to do with the overall incidences of PTSD. No matter what their outlook, nothing could save many troops in WW1 from what was then called 'shell shock'. Being subjected to endless bombardment while stuck in trenches, together with all the other stresses of their situation, clearly led to PTSD for many survivors after the war. However, how many of them self-harmed and committed suicide? I'm pretty sure the overall percentage would have been lower than it has been for our veterans from the Falklands War onwards.

Going back further, how many veterans of, say, the Battle of Waterloo, or of the Crimean War, were subject to PTSD, self-harmed and/or committed suicide? It really would be instructive to make some effort to establish comparisons.
Re: What about WWII, Malaya, etc?
[info]alanski wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 01:59 pm (UTC)
Hmm different times different attitudes. One story that springs to mind from my previous old father in law who was gassed during the first world war. He said that as they were being taken from the trenches in a single file each with hand on shoulder of the man if front a group of young American soldiers appeared heading for the front. One loudly yelled Okay where is this goddam shooting match? That was his last words he was shot dead by a British soldier clearly out of his mind with what he had witnessed.

It is a well known fact that the after care of servicemen and women leaves much to be desired. Hence the amount of young people ex forces who live and sleep on the streets. Sadly as each soldier dies there is the usual litany of words of how his or her potential was lost. But this means not much to the lousy politicians who sent them on these impossible missions. Perhaps if these politicians were to to have to fight themselves or donate their own loved ones they'd be more caring. Alas that is not the case. Fine words mean nothing to those struggling with what they've had to witness the same applies of course to those who face tough challenges such as the fire service. The government cannot hide the death rate of service folk but they do hide the details of those who are wounded in body and in mind, this is a scandal. They're probably very frightened of any possible litigation they care more about this and their precious ego than the health of those who have suffered and will continue to suffer until they die.

What goes on in the human mind is hard to fathom all that can be done is devote time to try and help heal the mental wounds. There are tens of thousands suffering with PTSD and many will never be treated hence the high suicide rate and other actions that are made by sufferers. In our day we had to accept it and keep a stiff upper lip. That doesn't make us any better, I feel sorry for those who are suffering in silence unable to break out from their tortured minds and then seeking relief by ending it all. It's high time that this is now being put into a spotlight but I regret that with all things it will just end up a statistic.
Re: What about WWII, Malaya, etc?
[info]jaded63 wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 02:09 pm (UTC)
That's really odd, your father-in-law's story, as I heard a very similar one from a chap who passed it on from his father, who served in WW1. Supposedly the Americans came into British trenches uttering very similar words to those you refer to, shortly after which the trenches were subject to German bombardment. When the British soldiers turned round to talk to the Americans, they found they'd all disappeared - they'd run away.

Beginning to wonder if there isn't something apocryphal about the story.
Re: What about WWII, Malaya, etc?
[info]alanski wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 02:41 pm (UTC)
Certainly such accounts would be hidden after all it would be a mighty blow against morale. From time to time accounts do get shown which turns the usual thinking upside down. When I was in Malaya the death rate of civilians was always added to the numbers of CTs killed. One SAS guy told me how he had to kill a small baby because the noise it was making could have alerted the enemy to their location. I see now the BBC is showing accounts from IDF soldiers detailing their attrocities in Gaza, denied of course by their governments. Such accounts need to be brought into the open and the South African truth commission is one way of helping to heal those festering wounds in the minds. Now we are seeing an open enquiry into torture in Iraq. As unpaletable as it may seem it is necessary to do this if only to warn others against excesses and to remind those in charge that they carry the ultimate responsibilty for allowing it to happen. The truth will out eventually and it should be sooner rather than later.
Re: What about WWII, Malaya, etc?
[info]jaded63 wrote:
Thursday, 16 July 2009 at 08:43 pm (UTC)
The killing of the baby boy by an SAS soldier is appalling, if it is true. I doubt very much that it is, however. What regiment did you serve in?
The British Army is Voluntary.
[info]living_fossil wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 04:41 am (UTC)
These men decided on their lifestyle. Being trained to kill for the crown then they must expect to be sent into horrendous situations. They should grow up and deal with it like earlier generations. Did the men returning from the Somme get counselling and a bunch of flowers? What ever happened to the stiff-upper lip of the British soldier? If their gonna act like cry babies then maybe they should have chosen hairdressing as a profession or something? As for politicians milking this sob-sob story that's pathetic but just so typical today where the men in suits are all a bunch of spineless chimps.
Re: The British Army is Voluntary.
[info]sean956 wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 06:20 am (UTC)
You, Living-fossil, are an utter arse.
Re: The British Army is Voluntary.
[info]fastguyeddie wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 09:20 am (UTC)
Hear Hear total arse
Re: The British Army is Voluntary.
[info]jaded63 wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 10:54 am (UTC)

Doubtless you have some proof that you are as tough as the British soldiers you say (without any evidence) 'cry like babies'.

Sent to kill and die
[info]johncmullen1960 wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 06:40 am (UTC)
Poor beggars, sent to kill and sometimes die for a pointless war. It is the pointlessness and the injustice of the war against Afghans which makes them crack up.
Suicide - Veterans
[info]valdan70 wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 06:53 am (UTC)
Why are the Conservatives only now calling for more Mental Health Services for veterans. The two conflicts, Falklands, and First Gulf War were fought on their watch. They did nothing for returning servicemen, particularly the young sailors, who witnessed horrific scenes after the tragedies of the Atlantic Conveyor and HMS Sheffield among others. My son was a Falklands veteran at 18. He was mentioned in despatches during the conflict and despite marrying and establishing a successful business when he left the navy, since 1990, he has spent months in psychiatric hospitals following several suicide attempts. He was obviously suffering from PTSD, but no treatment was available, despite Social Services personnel attending an RH Haslar post war seminar on the subject. The Navy refused to accept there was a problem and none of these boys were interviewed or encouraged to talk about their experiences. One Medical CPO I worked with thought it was all rubbish and said they should act like men. But what did he know, he had never been on active service and it was easy for him to sneer from the safety of his shoreside sickbay. I worked at HMS Sultan on the Medical Boards of Survey; I, personally, witnessed the suffering of several returned Falkland 'heroes'. The only help offered to them was medical discharge. Once they had left the service, they were on their own. The research carried out by RH Haslar medical stafff was, however, used to the benefit of other PTSD sufferers, particularly survivors and others involved in the Herald of Free Enterprise disaster in 1987. The ongoing care provided proved to be of great benefit. It's a scandal 'our boys' weren't afforded the same duty of care when they returned from conflict. My brave son, who is now 46, is attending an NHS therapy clinic for acute depression. He now has acute pancreatitis caused through alcoholism and is on prescribed opiates for the pain. He is currently living in a hostel with many other ex-servicemen because a fire destroyed the building where he had a flat 2 weeks ago. This surely gives an insight into how much we valued our returning servicemen and women during the late 80s and early 90s. Too little treatment then, received too late for him now. I feel deeply for those families who are grieving. God bless all those still fighting for us, wherever they are.
Because they dont care
[info]mowfalmighty wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 08:35 am (UTC)
The reason questions aren't asked about WW2, Korea etc is because the army couldn't be bothered, i.e they don't give a toss about their troops once they get home and have outlived their usefulness as killing machines. The only reason questions are being asked now is because external agencies are asking them, if it was up to the MOD the whole issue would be brushed under the carpet.
Different in the USA
[info]othr wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 09:25 am (UTC)
This situation is a lot different (I believe) from the situation they find themselves in in the US. In America, combat veterans have the dept of Veterans Affairs looking out for them:
( http://www.va.gov/ ). Even though a lot of issues revolve around the concept of pay for medical aid or get free medical treatment from the VA, other issues stand out. I believe that their combat veterans receive means tested aid for 5 years for non-military illness, and (I think) unlimited aid for military related injury and illness. And currently, veterans' groups are urging Congress to "pass the Compensation Owed for Mental Health Based on Activities in Theater Post-traumatic Stress Disorder Act of 2009 (the COMBAT PTSD Act, H.R. 952)" to make clarification easier:
( http://www.vetsfirst.org/vetsfirst-tells-congress-to-pass-the-combat-ptsd-act/ )

In the past, UK troups could well have been treated at one of a handful of military hospitals that had the necessary expertise. WIth these gone, I guess that our UK veterans are told to shuffle off down to Accident and Emergency and hope that somebody understands, unless they manage to get a physiatric referral from their GP. Therefore, I can only guess that the high levels of potential "mental illness and suicide" in the UK is related to the military man's Psyche is based around training to cope with anything, and being unable and unwilling to say the words "I can't cope". In contrast, a US combat veteran returning home, should at least be able to knock on the door of the VA as a mere military act, and say "help!".

I'm sure that many UK troops suffered terrible problems following WWI, WWII, The Falklands onwards, and were not given the help they needed which may have destroyed their quality of life or even destroyed their life itself.

Whilst our Defence Secretary (at the time) Geoff Hoon couldn't understand why he shouldn't go off on a skiing break with his kids at the same time that our troops prepared to enter Iraq, how could we ever doubt that our 'caring' government would ever give us anything less than a Rolls Royce, gold plated care system? Perhaps now, we should really start to think about how we care for combat veterans.
'Veterans'
[info]bobbellinhell wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 09:27 am (UTC)
I notice that New Labour are continuing to use the word 'veteran', with its overtones of worthy service in the fight against Hitler, for the soldiers who took part in the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Re: 'Veterans'
[info]valdan70 wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 12:36 pm (UTC)
I seem to remember the Conservatives referred to the servicemen and women who fought in the Gulf War and the Falklands as veterans. From your comment, are we to assume you equate those two conflicts as being on a par with the fight against Hitler.
Tip of the Iceberg
[info]fastguyeddie wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 09:27 am (UTC)
This is the thin end of the wedge; many more veterans suffer/ed in silence - If the army cannot supply proper equipment in battle (and this present war isn't the first time thats happened) it doesn't take a genius to work out how poorly after-care is funded.
PTSD
[info]achimkrull wrote:
Wednesday, 15 July 2009 at 01:57 pm (UTC)
Similar problems have occured with Canadian vets of Afghanistan; suicide, violent impulses, shattered marriages and relationships. Like some of the others I have to wonder if there is something about the attitude of the current generation that makes this stronger than among WWI and WWII vets. One hears about "shell shock" and "combat fatigue" from those wars, but certainly not to the extent that one sees this from the current wars. Have any studies been done about the extent of PTSD among WWI and WWII or even Korean vets?
Re: PTSD
[info]fastguyeddie wrote:
Thursday, 16 July 2009 at 10:34 am (UTC)
I don't think so - but there is anecdotal evidence based on post war violent/gun related crime statisics to suggest it has always been a problem. Of course the toll on Family and spouses is now impossible to determine as these abuses would have been rarely reported in this period.
Fighting for life and living one
[info]jona123 wrote:
Thursday, 16 July 2009 at 08:59 am (UTC)
Went to a small party in someones garden recently. I didnt know anyone there as the host who was the landlord was absent and the party was hosted by one of his new tenants and her friends. There couldnt have been more than six people there, it was a nice sunny evening. One man was drinking and not having the food that someone had cooked. He was very loud and seemed il at ease. l cant remember how the conversation started but i think it was when someone asked me what I did. i said I used to work in mental Health. The drinking guy stopped his drinking and looked at me with an intensity that reminded me of one of the problems with mental health working - other peoples anger and how to defuse it. He said he was under Mental Health and every now and then a Psychiatrist would see him and give him some pills. Whatever he wanted from the psychiatric profession, it was not pills. He said that he rarely went out and was finding it very difficult sitting here with people. He had been in the Army and had a prison record after he assulted an officer. He had spent most of the evening on the edge of his chair. He had been homeless for a while and said that many ex soldiers could not handle ordinary life and drifted about. Basically he was awash with anxiety and just wanted to get out of the small harmeless gathering. I related how whilst I worked in mental Health that I had a carry over from work and thatr was assessing people as to their likely aggression levls and how I would handle them. Basically I was one the first rung of his ladder where he now hung at the top, and that was combat - kill or be killed. He could not get out of it and the small party was a threat, for he could not remove himself from the threat viewpoint. After all, that is how he got recognition and how he maintained his life. I felt deeply sorry for the brash shaven headed bruiser and smiled at him and he reached out his hand to shake mine. We talked a bit more and he wanted to meet me again. I felt I could not accept what would go with that. Every encounter was a battle encounter but no real enemy only his trained expectation. he was trained to experience the anxiety and fear and deal with it through killing the enemy. Which he said he enjoyed, but then the control of anxiety is a pleasure, but what a price. But it wasnt just the perpetual anxiety it was the frustration at being unable to escape the fighting. These guys need help. We want them to fight for their nation, but we expect that fighting to just be laid down like an inanimate rifle.
Re: Fighting for life and living one
[info]fastguyeddie wrote:
Thursday, 16 July 2009 at 10:40 am (UTC)
I wondered if this is because how soldiers are trained in the first place: i.e. the recruit is effectively broken and rebuilt as a fighting machine psychologically; however there is no reversal of this process and given that most recruits go in as teenagers and come out in their late 20s is it even possible to undo it?
The Banking Cartel wins ALL wars.
[info]warisaracket wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 10:04 am (UTC)
All wars are fought on CREDIT.

You don't want to die for the bankers? There must be something wrong with you.

http://warisaracket.org/

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