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Standing up for the gypsies

The largest illegal travellers' camp in Britain has found a divine ally in its survival battle. Jerome Taylor reports

Margaret McCarthy, with her son Dan, at Dale Farm

TERI PENGILLEY

Margaret McCarthy, with her son Dan, at Dale Farm

To say that Marianne McCarthy is house-proud would be something of an understatement. The dainty gravel garden outside her two bedroom prefab is immaculately kept, boasting two freshly painted miniature cannons and a host of cheerful garden gnomes to greet her visitors. Step through her front door and the inside of the house is spotless. A gleaming white kitchen with clear plastic stools leads into a sparse but welcoming sitting room where a simple crucifix, two chandeliers and an embroidered "God Bless Home" sign are the room's only adornments.

It's a far cry from what outsiders might expect the 68-year-old widow's home to look like. "Most people think this area will be filthy, with rubbish and sewage and everything," she says. "They think we're dangerous and that you have to come with bullet-proof vests. We've had to put up with all sort of accusations."

Mrs McCarthy expects people to have a negative perception of her modest dwelling because the "estate" on which she lives, Dale Farm, where she has called home for the past seven years, is the largest illegal gypsy site in the country.

Part of the former scrapyard site near the village of Crays Hill, Essex, has been legally home to a small number of British-born Irish travellers for more than 20 years. But problems began in 2001 when a number of new families arrived and expanded the site well beyond its legal limits into the greenbelt.

Since then the site has mushroomed and become the centre of a monumental legal battle between Basildon Council, which wants the gypsies removed, and the 86 illegal families who say they are trying to settle down on legally purchased land but are stymied by planning regulations that are biased against them. Over the years the dispute has become more and more acrimonious, with settled residents from Crays Hill accusing the travellers of resorting to intimidation tactics and crime to drive them away and their house prices down. The gypsies, in return, say they are victims of a well-orchestrated smear campaign that resorts to long-defined negative stereotypes of traveller culture.

In the middle of all this is Father John Glynn, a Catholic priest from the nearby village of Wickford who is among the few local residents calling for some sort of reconciliation between the two factions.

Father John believes it is high time British politicians found a way to solve the country's traveller problems.

"Basildon might win this round and force these families out but they'll only go somewhere else and the cycle will continue," he says.

Part of the problem, the soft-spoken priest explains, is that the settled community rarely takes the time to get to know travellers, who themselves remain deeply suspicious of outsiders and often come across as hostile. In a bid to reverse the two sides' ignorance of each other, Father John is hosting a series of meetings with the Bishop of Brentwood where travellers and members of the public can meet face to face.

"You can't change the culture overnight but the most important thing that needs to happen is for people's perceptions to alter," he says. "Things simply cannot remain the way they have. I would go so far as to say that British gypsies are being ethnically cleansed. The message we are sending them is 'We don't like your ways, we don't want you here and we want you to move on'. It's astonishing. We'd never say that to immigrant communities but for some reason we're unwilling to respect the specific cultural aspects of gypsies because they look the same as us."

Margaret McCarthy (the McCarthys are one of about five extended families that live on Dale Farm), a mother of five who lives next door to Marianne, is among a handful of gypsies who say they are willing to meet members of the settled community through Father John.

"If it means people will understand us better I'm willing to do it," she says. "I trust Father John and I'm sure he knows what's best. All we want is a place to call home, a place where our children can become educated."

But convincing the outside world that they mean no harm will be difficult. David Walsh and his wife, Jill, live next to a smaller gypsy encampment down the road which is part of the same legal battle with Basildon Council. Although things have quietened down over the past two years, he has recorded more than 200 incidences where he and his wife have been threatened or intimidated.

"In this area I'm not sure whether there could ever be any reconciliation because there's just too much water under the bridge," he says. But Mr Walsh does agree that Britain's politicians need to do something quickly.

"If anything, I'm more annoyed with them for not accepting the situation, or doing anything about it," he says. "On a personal level, if the court cases go our way, our problem with the gypsies might be over in a couple of years. But the problem will go on and on."

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Gypsy sites
[info]timdhowell wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 02:18 am (UTC)
At least Basildon Council is trying to do something unlike Croydon Council who seem powerless or unwilling to protect ordinary residents who have to pay council tax and obey parking rules from the intimidation and squalor caused by gypsies.
Planning Laws Need Review
[info]mike4626 wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 07:20 am (UTC)
to stop the illegal occupation of land by any element of society the planning laws must be changed. The planning appeal process costs Council Tax payers tens of thousands and often several appeals are held for the same illegal occupation. People who move on to land on the Friday of a Bank Holiday weekend should be removed as quickly as they enter
"Travellers", "Gypsies" or simply Parasites???
[info]tonydh wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 07:48 am (UTC)
Let's not beat about the bush - these people are parasites - and pretty filthy ones at that. They seem to think that irrelevancies like paying Council Tax and abiding by planning regulations are for the birds - or in this case ordinary law abiding folk. Near Canterbury is one such "traveller" site which has been fought tooth and nail by local residents with very little result. It seems that the "Gypsies" have now won, because it will cost too much to continue to fight them through the courts - and the squatters [a more accurate descriptive term for these folk] get legal aid of course. The ultimate insult to the local community [to which they contribute nothing except litter] is that the leader of this ragbag group, one Bridie Jones, has just been awarded an MBE for - wait for the joke - "services to the travelling community". This person has said that if she is ever threatened with eviction she will "burn my caravan down and throw myself on top of it". Unsurprisingly, the locals are queuing up with their matches!! Travellers they are patently NOT, parasites they certainly ARE!
Re: "Travellers", "Gypsies" or simply Parasites???
[info]okonos wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 08:38 am (UTC)
Disgusting attitude from you, tonyd
Re: "Travellers", "Gypsies" or simply Parasites???
[info]tonydh wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 08:54 am (UTC)
Dear "Okonos". Since you are so enamoured by the "traveller" lifestyle, we'll send them over to squat in the field next to your house/your garden. I'm sure you'll get on famously with the beautiful Ms Jones!!!
Re: "Travellers", "Gypsies" or simply Parasites???
[info]skiforlife wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 09:32 am (UTC)
Let's not beat about the bush. Eh? tonydh. 'Enamoured?' That's some assertion for a condemnatory xenophobic nescient.
Re: "Travellers", "Gypsies" or simply Parasites???
[info]tonydh wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 09:51 am (UTC)
Dear "Skiforlife" [perhaps that should read
"Geta life"?] You and "Okonos" should get together! You seem to have both swallowed a large dose of Political Correctness [no doubt provided free by your Nu Labour MP]. If you want to provide more tnagible support to our local squatter/scroungers/parasites please send your donation to Ms Bridie Jones, Moat Lane Fordwich Canterbury Kent, who i'm sure will be delighted to receive it.
Incidentally, you can read the full story at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/southeast/series8/week_three.shtml
Re: "Travellers", "Gypsies" or simply Parasites???
[info]whiterabbi7 wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 11:16 am (UTC)
tonyd, your views are straight out of The Daily Hate.
Re: "Travellers", "Gypsies" or simply Parasites???
[info]tonydh wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 11:32 am (UTC)
Mr "White Rabbi7" - the next thing i will be accused of is being on the books of the BNP or possibly of Holocaust denial. What is it with you do-gooders? Can't you see the illogicality of your support for the people I'm opposed to? At least there are at least a couple of others who share my views. To repeat, if you are so in love with the scroungocracy, then by all means let them live next to you - you'll soon change your tune my friend!!!
gypsy myth
[info]crock789 wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 09:13 am (UTC)
These people are not gypsies or travellers. Travellers by definition travel and move on...they don't stay in the same place for 20 years.

Tony d has it exactly right..a blatant disregard for community values,never paying council tax,totally ignoring planning regulations,always in receipt of legal aid to fight their unfounded cases and forever crying 'victimisation'..

A bunch of non contributory parasites.
Road.
[info]ron_broxted wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 09:30 am (UTC)
Much heat,little light.Firstly Irish travellers have issues with "gypsies".They claim a separate status (when it suits).Secondly, "culture". I met nice ones in Ireland and moved to Hertfordshire. Nowhere does it state that it is anyones "right" to be scum. It seems their only way forward is to walk the Buffers (gadje) road . Travelling was only feasible in summer months in pre-industrialized communities.I read of "they have a different sense of space,public & private".Here is an idea.Don't go into a pub and trash the place and perhaps we might all get on.Scum is scum whether gypsy or not.I'd rather have "respectable" gypsies than chav (romany word!) junkies.Finally I spoke to a West Indian guy about this. "They're all the same" I said "You would not like it if 2 Jamaicans kicked off in a pub and whites said that".
travellers
[info]ouldbob wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 10:44 am (UTC)
Ireland got rid of the problem by driving them all out of the country, - so they came here.
I would not deny that there may be some of them who are tolerable, but the majoruty are not.
They are not a 'race', though they claim to suffer racial discrimination.
They are not gypsies, and often say that they hate gypsies - who are a race, with their own language and culture.
Travellers, from experience, contaminate the area that they move into, then move on leaving the rest of us to pick up the filth they have left behind. This is neither exaggeration nor insult, but a simple bald statement of fact.
I, like many others, have suffered over the years because Irish travellers have dumped rubbish , have stolen property, and have been a general nuisance.
I have prevented several thefts, and each time have been threatened with retribution, - because these scum think that anything which they can steal is theirs by right. They should be returned forcibly to Ireland where they were spawned.
Travellers
[info]krekelin wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 01:43 pm (UTC)
I visited Ireland many years ago and found every place you could park a high vehicle had a height barrier. I had it pointed out to me that it was to prevent travellers parking up and creating a mess but the problem was reducing as they were now all going to Wales and England. An Irish problem that once again became an English problem. This government have made England the world's dustbin through their consistent weakness in every aspect of managent apart from the easy targets of honest motorists and council taxpayers.
The problem with the Gypsies
[info]nickiuk wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 03:41 pm (UTC)
The first thing to understand is that the Gypsies have always been at the bottom of the pile and yet they come from a much bigger community of Travellers, of which i am one, even though i do not have a vehicle in which to join them. I have many friends who live in vans, trucks and other converted vehicles and all they want is as the piece says a place to call home, a place where they can come back to and not be constantly moved on from.

In my local area the NIMBYs (a very big problem for a lot of other reasons too) have said no to having traveller sites in their back yards, but a lot of the travellers/Gypsies are not like the one's who cause the problems, the ones who move onto a site and leave it as a shit hole. Here in bournemouth we have those types of travellers and they are a problem because they have no real income other than what they can bring in via their money making methods.

That is the second problem the ones who don't respect the locals and bring trouble to the local areas, these are the ones we should be combating, they are not Gypsies, the travellers call them Pikies, but again it's down to respect and understanding, the respect we give them and from that the respect they give us.
Re: The problem with the Gypsies
[info]copycat7 wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 03:51 pm (UTC)
i simply dont respect people who are thieving parasites.
PIKIES ARE SCUM!
[info]copycat7 wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 03:50 pm (UTC)
I WILL HAVE SYMPATHY WITH PIKIES WHEN THE CRIME WAVE AND RUBBISH PILE STOPS FOLLOWING THEM AROUND. AND THATS NO STEREOTYPE EITHER!. NO DANGER OF ANY PIKIES BEING OFFENDED BY THIS SINCE NONE ARE INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO READ!
I guess they have travelled a lot and need the rest.
[info]famulla wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 01:26 pm (UTC)
I guess they have travelled a lot and need the rest. Gypsy: Definition from Answers.com
... n. , pl. -sies also -sies . A member of a people that arrived in Europe in ... A History of Gypsies of Eastern Europe and Russia. New York: St. Martin's Press. ...www.answers.com/topic/gypsy - 171k - Cached
Sal's Flamenco Soapbox-The Gypsies Part 1
Gypsies. Gypsy origin theories. Gypsy migrations. Spanish Gypsies ... The Gypsies. History. Gypsies played a major role in the development of flamenco. ...herso.freeservers.com/gypsies.html - Cached
But they are better then the politicians you have to admit

STANDNG UP FOR GYPSIES
[info]peter51 wrote:
Sunday, 17 May 2009 at 04:40 pm (UTC)
Wake up time! This argument is nothing whatsoever to do with culture or racism and where does this ridiculous statement of a planning system biased against gypsies come from? Is Father John Glynn living on another planet because he should return to the real world and address the mahem caused by his flock and the misery and suffering their behaviour causes on law abiding settled communities. I for one am sick and tired of hearing all this rubbish oer and over again because the facts are simple, gypsies and travellers are allowed to break the law with impunity, they ignore planning regulations that everyone else must obey, e.g. can a member of the settled community just by a piece of cheap land in the open countryside, move on to it on a Bank Holiday weekend and build a house to live in and get away with it?Absolutely not, the full force of the Law would be brought down on them without a second thought! The fact is that thanks to a weak Government that is completely out of touch with public opinion, the planning system is very noticeably biased towards gypsies and travellers as can be evidenced by the number of times correct refusals of retrospective planning applications have been overturned on appeal by Government Planning Inspectors who operate a blatantly favourable set of Government sponsored rules towards gypsies and travellers and another draconian set of rules towards the law abiding tax paying settled community. So for once GET REAL! The same set of Laws and rules should be applied equally to all, it's time for a policy of ZERO TOLLERANCE TOWARDS GYPSIES AND TRAVELLERS when they break the law and choose to ignore planning regulations. Let these itinerants start to pay their own way, no more tax payers money should go towards subsidising a life style that they have chosen becuse Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling certainly don't subsidise my lifestyle but theycertainly know who to take my taxes. If gypsies and travellers can afford to executive 4x4 motors then they should save up like the rest of us or get a mortgage to buy legitimate development land at full market price and put in a proper planning application. It is time for our Government to get a proper grip of this situation and to stop pandering to this scurge and its' time for the tail to stop wagging the dog, such a small vociferous minority of the PC Brigade should not be allowed to continue to dictate to the vast majority who say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH - START LISTENING TO US FOR A CHANGE!

Peter, Leicestershire
Travellers
[info]kuma2000 wrote:
Sunday, 17 May 2009 at 05:24 pm (UTC)
Having had several encounters with "travellers" over the years (and I am glad several people have distinguished between them and real Gypsies) I have been less than impressed, and politically correct stories like this paint a different picture from what they are in reality. They have no respect for the people around them, vandalising their way into public and private sites, making noise and general disturbance at all hours, supporting themselves with petty crime on local homes and leaving the places they stay at in an extreme state of filth, often blocking paths and roads with debris to make it harder to clean up. They will happily park on children's playing fields and intimidate local people and police until a court order is made for their removal. What is the purpose of the travellers, what do we get out of them except cheap pegs? Do they pay any taxes perhaps? I certainly know that they don't pay for parking as the traffic wardens in Northampton several years ago were told not to put tickets on any travellers' vehicles because they might get assaulted and they won't pay it anyway - not the same rules for us ordinary people, eh? There are plenty of caravan sites around, why not pay there, or do you expect to be able to sponge off people all the time?
If you pikeys really are so nice then returning the garden tools and lawn mower you stole from my mum's house in Northampton 9 years ago or paying for the damage to my colleague's car when you cut the fuel pipe to steal her petrol would be a nice gesture. As would paying the hundreds of thousands of pounds of clean-up charges that Milton Keynes Council had to pay when you continuously parked your fucking caravans around Shenley Wood, meaning I had to divert from the beautiful path where I did my daily run, and instead run across paths covered with human excrements - do your owners not have pooper scoopers you foul excuses for human beings?
As for you politically correct NIMBYs who have not had the pleasure of coming across these people, I suggest you keep your mouth shut until you know what you are talking about. These people are not pleasant.
Gypsies Not The Problem
[info]normanmcc wrote:
Sunday, 17 May 2009 at 08:35 pm (UTC)
So the Independant managed to find a clean Gypsy. That comes as no surprise since I came across many while I served as an elected Borough Councillor at Hinckley and Bosworth. I was honoured on many occasion to be invited in to their homes and shared a pot of tea with them and learned a little about their culture. Those who I came across respected both planning and criminal law and run respectable businesses and are by no means parasites. They told me their firm belief was that cleanliness is next to godliness and that was evident not just in their homes but on the caravan sites as a whole and when it comes to basic hygiene, they put many of us to shame.

Regretfully they are tarred with the same brush on account of the activities of Travellers who do not respect the law and who intimidate and threaten farmers and others who are too afraid to come forward for fear of retribution. While I was a Councillor I tried to get this problem addressed but nobody wanted to know and when I stood up and published some of their crimes my home came under attack and I received death threats as well as life threatening sabotage to my car. In the village where I now live, similar unacceptable behaviour is now being metered out to a local elected councillor who like me, has stood up to them.

It is unfortunate that the do-gooders gave Gypsy status to the Travellers because as such, they are a protected species, a priviledge that they abuse. The sooner we get an elected Conservative government that is pledged to remove the Human Rights Act from our statute books the better we all will be.

Norman McCausland
Gypsies Not The Problem - Additional note
[info]normanmcc wrote:
Sunday, 17 May 2009 at 09:50 pm (UTC)
Throughout the Independant's article, the author has strayed many times in to using the word Gypsy when it need not necessarily apply. Gypsies do not like this because they do not like being associated with the antics on non-Romany Gypsies (i.e. Travellers). I trust the author will bear this in mind when writing in the future because it is a very sensitive issue. Any attempt to elevate the public perception of Travellers by referring to them as Gypsies is disingenous and hurtful to a very proud group of people.
what a wonderful world.
[info]claritydisobey wrote:
Tuesday, 19 May 2009 at 12:05 pm (UTC)
Having just read a few of the posts here i have to ask a simple question. Do any of you actually know these people you are talking about? have you ever met any of them? and i don't mean argued with , i mean sat down and talked to them.
I have had an experienced a strange phenomena in my lifetime you see and it goes like this: I start a job, be it factory,barwork,labouring,fieldwork whatever and i talk to my co-workers and get to know them a bit,a few weeks go by and invitabley someone comes out with the usual "f**king gyypos" to which i quietly state "well as a Gypsy i have to say your opinion is based on no knowledge of us at all"

i have known people for months before reaching the above conversation and most of them just reassess their opinions and generally ask a few questions etc etc
sometimes i find that a person that has, until they have found out my identity been perfectly polite then turns around and says "well i fu*king hate gyypos so i'm not going to talk to you" after which they turn the rest of their mates against me.

what generally happens though is that i get some of my co workers coming up to me and reminising about the Gypsies that used to stop on the village green every year(and that they used to look forwards to the annual visit)

now what we have is a governmentally caused problem, there are not enough places to stop.

can any of you imagine what it would be like if there was only 10% of houses needed for people in your area? yes i think we could agree there would be some problems.

i strongly suggest that instead of swallowing the daily mails version of 'truth' you get off your arses and find out the real issues behind this part of UK life. we have ALL been failed by succesive governments for a long time now, there are not enough decent quality council houses for those that want them and for the 2% of the population (thats apparently what we the Gypsies make up) there are not enough stopping places.

if the stupid politican's stopped being idiots long enough they could resolve both problems in a short amount of time, my peoples needs could be catered for with very little money or land so ask yourselves why aren't they?

having said all this i very much doubt many people actually care enough to look further than forfilling there moral outrage quota for the day....if it wasn't Gypsies it would be Poles or Moslems or some other scapegoat. the real problem is the idiots who ruin...sorry run this country.

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