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Brown's electric dream for Britain

Exclusive: PM reveals plans to create first 'green' cities geared towards electric cars in drive to create 400,000 new jobs

By Andrew Grice, Political Editor

Gordon Brown has promised an environmentally friendly Budget later this month to kick start a "green recovery" – including the mass introduction of electric cars on Britain's roads.

In an exclusive interview with The Independent, the Prime Minister trailed measures to make Britain "a world leader" in producing and exporting electric cars, hybrid petrol-electric vehicles and lighter cars using less petrol. Alistair Darling, the Chancellor, will announce in his Budget that trials for electric cars in two or three cities will begin next year. Councils will be invited to bid to become Britain's first "green cities". The Government will open talks with power companies to ensure the vehicles can have their batteries recharged at a national network of power points at the roadside.

Mr Darling will also set a target of creating 400,000 jobs in "green industries" over the next five years.

Other green measures to be outlined by the Government shortly include relaxing planning rules to allow the building of more wind farms to ensure Britain hits its target to generate 15 per cent of its energy from renewable sources by 2020. "Smart meters" will eventually be installed in every home so people can see how much energy they use. Ministers also want to develop a "clean coal" industry by approving an experiment with carbon capture and storage.

In his first newspaper interview since last week's G20 summit, Mr Brown kept open the option of a limited further fiscal stimulus in the Budget. But with public borrowing in the current financial year likely to rise from the forecast £118bn to around £150bn, he hinted that the Chancellor might have to announce more tax rises for the medium term to balance the nation's books.

"It is not just what we do to give real help now, but about setting a path for the future as well. We always take into account what we need and what is best future for the fiscal position," he said.

Pledging a raft of measures to ensure Britain emerges from the recession as a "low carbon" economy, the Prime Minister said the country could increase its output of environmental goods and services by 50 per cent to £1.5bn in the next few years.

"This is a major part of our plan for recovery in the Budget," he said. He added that the Government would provide incentives to help the car industry become a market leader across the world for electric and hybrid cars. Yesterday, the plans received a boost when the European Investment Bank approved a £340m loan to Jaguar Land Rover to develop "green" vehicles, with a further £373m to be split between Nissan's plants in Sunderland and Spain.

Mr Brown said he would consider buying a fleet of electric cars for ministers to set an example. To help Britain's struggling car industry, he said the Government was considering a "scrappage" scheme under which motorists would get up to £2,000 for trading in a polluting older car for a cleaner new vehicle.

"A different type of economy will emerge in the recovery – if we are prepared to invest in the future," he said. "Britain has a very strong and successful future ahead of us. We are leading in a number of key sectors."

The jobs of the future would come from a "green revolution" and an expansion in sectors such as pharmaceuticals, health care, education, the creative industries, information technology, bioscience and advanced manufacturing. Despite fears of a much smaller financial sector, he insisted that London would still be "one of the most attractive places to do business from".

Mr Brown said the push would enjoy widespread public support. "This is a job creator, a quality of life improver and an environment-enhancing measure," he said. "We want to harness a desire among people to be part of this. A better Britain means building a greener Britain."

Mr Brown struck an upbeat note about the United Nations-led talks on a new climate change treaty, to be held in Copenhagen in December. Despite fears that President Obama might not be ready to sign up by then, Mr Brown insisted: "He is determined to move the environmental agenda forward."

He added: "We have been brought down by a global banking crisis. We in Britain are capable and well placed – with our natural strength and our enterprising past and present, to be able to meet all these challenges in the future."

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yes
[info]nicksebley wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 12:29 am (UTC)


yes a green new deal..we get it ..we want it...

NOW get on with it for christ's sake

full steam ahead
Green
[info]mike4626 wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 06:43 am (UTC)
Gordon Brown has promised an environmentally friendly Budget - is politic speak for TAX INCREASES
he must first get the permission of his bosses - [info]cronyblatcher - Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 06:49 am (UTC) Expand
TANFIELD ARE ALREADY PRODUCING ELECTRIC VANS
[info]wealth_investor wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 12:57 am (UTC)
Endland's TANFIELD Group PLC is already producing electric commercial vehicles in collaboration with Ford.
Electric Cars
[info]oldnick52 wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 12:57 am (UTC)
I was going to post some information in support of electric cars until I read your T&Cs as follows:

?Republication of User Content: When you submit any posting or contribution to the website, whether that includes text, photographs, graphics, video or audio in any format, [known as "User Content"] you agree by submitting such User Content to grant Independent News & Media Group ("INM") a perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, non-exclusive sub licensable right and licence to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from (in which derivitive works you will have not right, title or interest), distribute, perform, play, make available to the public, and exercise all copyright and publicity rights with respect to your User Content worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any media now known or later developed to the full term of any rights that may exist in your User Content. If you do not wish to grant these rights please do not submit your contribution. on or through the Service or the Site, or transmit to or share with other users (collectively the "User Content"). You are solely responsible at your sole cost and expense for creating backup copies and replacing any User Content you post or store on the website or provide to INM.?

I think your T&C?s stink and I?m not entirely sure they are completely legal, based on the same grounds that companies who make large profits from employers? inventions or ideas, now have to reward them accordingly.


More empty rhetoric from the chief clown
[info]someofusknow wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 02:21 am (UTC)
Anyone who knows anything about electric cars knows that this is yet another pipe dream from the man noted for wild delusions.

Firstly there is the huge existing investment in petroleum technology which nobody in the oil industry wants to see abandoned -see "Who killed the electric car'.

Secondly, the world ecnomy is collapsing due to resource constraints which will be exacerbated by any attempt to 'kick start' anything. Peak Oil was almost certianly 3 years ago, and hte only reason oil prices are low now is substnatial demand destruction.

Thirdly, despite 40 years of optimism abolout breakthroughs, battery technology is still not up to the job long term.

Fourthly, where is the additional electricity needed to charge cars going to come from? The energy system is already stressed to the maximum, with natural gas and decomissioning of nuclear plants being particularly weak links in the chain.

Fifthly, even if super-efficient electric cars were possible, they would still be emitting massive amounts of carbon dioxide indirectly -via the embedded CO2 involved in mining ores, refining, manufacure of the vehiclesm and during the charging process. So they would continue to upset the carbon balance of the planet.

Carbon capture and storage is just another scam designed to keep the masses believing there can be a future for present arrangements, and of course, there is no such thing as 'clean coal'.

The reality is, thie transition to a green economy should have implemented 30 years ago, but it wasn't. It's too late now: Britian has squandered its resources on an insane consumer society (as have most other nations) and is paying the price for the madness. The window of opportunity has gone.

However, 'Brown's electric dream for Britain' makes an appeaking headline.

That is not what most people want to hear, of course.

Re: More empty rhetoric from the chief clown
[info]sportingmac wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 07:37 am (UTC)
Spot on.
Re: More empty rhetoric from the chief clown - [info]nsandersen - Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 12:06 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: More empty rhetoric from the chief clown - [info]harmonyfuture - Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 07:50 am (UTC) Expand
Re: More empty rhetoric from the chief clown - [info]cronyblatcher - Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 08:05 am (UTC) Expand
Re: More empty rhetoric from the chief clown - [info]knifeedgier - Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 10:06 am (UTC) Expand
Re: More empty rhetoric from the chief clown - [info]someofusknow - Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 11:58 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: More empty rhetoric from the chief clown - [info]solipsistident - Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 07:54 pm (UTC) Expand
Hot Air?
[info]thisanthat wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 03:44 am (UTC)
More Hot Air from Brown & Co methinks. Four Hundred Thousand Jobs? For the paper pushers of Whitehall maybe! Has nobody told the man three million wasted souls is the expected figure for the unemployed! His addiction to OPM to solve Nulabour's grand schemes has failed miserably.
Re: Hot Air?
[info]blocksofwood wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 10:59 am (UTC)
If only we could harness all the hot air that Gordon and F.U Labour produce (I let you use your imagination to what F.U acronym means). Imagine so much energy could be produce from it.
Another tax and another useless measure, since we don't have the infrastructure for electric cars and who's going to pay for them, the fuel companies? Haha
WHERE IS THE LAND?
[info]famulla wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 05:54 am (UTC)
The Battery car
We have enough jobs now. We will build a factory to provide jobs for the women and men and kids, and then we will produce the wheels. There too we will provide jobs. We have the battery station refilling the cars. We will have jobs. We need land that I do not know where to get. Any suggestion? The Airport needs expansions to provide work for the new recruits. We have to teach them the new tactics of fighting.
In the same paper, we have jobs going, going, gone?
Royal Bank of Scotland said yesterday that it planned to lose 9,000 jobs, half of them in Britain, on top of the 2,700 it has already cut here this year.
British Airways has proposed a shake-up of employee pay and conditions in a move that could lead to substantial cuts in remuneration and holidays for its 13,500 cabin crew.
London bankers' mighty pay has fallen from the highest level among global financial centres to the lowest, with Wall Street financiers grabbing the top spot, a poll showed on Sunday.
According to the survey across a range of businesses and countries by Napier Scott recruiters, London bankers saw an average drop of 62 percent in their salaries and bonuses for 2008, and took home 40 percent less in remuneration than their New York counterparts.
I thank you
Firozali A. Mulla
Hooray!
[info]laclose wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 06:19 am (UTC)
For absolutely ages I have been saying why the hell aren't we incentivised to get greener vehicles and why a cheap green car isn't being mass produced.

And for all the negative people who have been saying 'boo sucks' to this article - note the word 'greener' in my post. Its not the ideal, but its a massive and bold idealogical step forward towards a less polluting society and governments that put the environment first because it makes good business sense.

And for my own opinion, I think car and petrol companies are suddenly going to have a massive ideological shift in the near future and we will read headlines such as: "Ford and Shell announce new green fuel car: oil giant has been perefecting new fuel for 30 years in massive dersert factory amid fears oil is running out."
Electric vans and trucks
[info]barrykellow wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 06:24 am (UTC)
Check out the Case Studies page at the http://www.smithelectricvehicles.com to see UK-made electric vans and trucks that already exist. What is needed is ORDERS, from government departments in areas where these vehicles are a practical proposition, namely depot-based fleets operating over predictable routes. Postal deliveries are a prime candidate. One of Royal Mails' rivals, TNT, has bought 150 Smith Newton trucks and Smith Edison vans, while Royal Mail has bought just one of each!

Ford has already chosen Smith as its partner for producing electric vans in the USA. Smith is already the world leader in the production of roadgoing commercial electric vehicles. It would be good to see the government backing them instead of funelling funds into bailing out failing motormakers who merely promise to become a tiny bit greener.

Smith is owned by Tanfield Group, a stockmarket listed company via which people and institutions can directly invest in this greener future.
Dreaming
[info]over325one wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 06:27 am (UTC)
I had a dream last night. That Labour had never been voted in and Brown had not taken over under our seriously flawed electoral system. The I woke up to the nightmare of reality. I then dreamt I was an MP and had just furnished my second home on the taxpayers expense. This is not Zimbabwe - Is it ? California dreaming on such a sunny day.
Gordon Brown has gone planning mand
[info]drlizmiller wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 06:27 am (UTC)
I agree with everything green, I believe we have perhaps 5 years before we unleash an environmental armageddon

But Gordon has gone planning mad. Every week it is something new. We are seeing a man desperate to cling onto power at all costs and he will say whatever he has to get people to vote for him. This week the greens, last week the bankers. Next week the NHS.

About time we had someone with clear beliefs and consistent behaviour. Too little too late Mr G Brown. Could have done better

Do Androids dream of electric sheep?
[info]drlizmiller wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 06:31 am (UTC)
Is the headline writer of the Independent trying to tell us something?
Re: Do Androids dream of electric sheep?
[info]vhawk1951 wrote:
Friday, 10 April 2009 at 06:45 pm (UTC)
I like it- good one m8 :)
Is this really, really, really, really true ?
[info]humble_sparrow wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 06:48 am (UTC)
Please say if this is really true, is the government really taking on a green agenda, is this the turning point in history when man starts to really respect his planet ?

Come on please, please, we need to know ?

Is there real real change afoot ?
Re: Is this really, really, really, really true ?
[info]davidke wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 10:05 am (UTC)
No, it's a scam. We have no generating or transmission capacity. UK has made deals with the French to import their nuclear sourced power as our supplies run out just to keep the lights on. The figure of 400,000 is plucked out of thin air. For goodness sake some of you journalists ask him where he gets that mad figure, and take a hard look at his data.
Humble_sparrow - I wish it were true!
[info]drlizmiller wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 07:04 am (UTC)
"Please say if this is really true, is the government really taking on a green agenda, is this the turning point in history when man starts to really respect his planet ?

Come on please, please, we need to know ?

Is there real real change afoot ?"

Humble_sparrow, I fear this is another illusion from a man desperate to be re-elected. Yes I too am sad, the truth is harsh - Mr G Brown doesn't give a D*** about anything except himself
Running out
[info]pilsden wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 07:05 am (UTC)
The usual nonsense from Brown.
He hasn't grasped yet that we are running out of generating capacity.Most of our coal fired plants have to be replaced almost immediately.And of course the Grid is well placed to fulfil this idea not to mention transmission losses.
We are rapidly becoming dependent on imported electricity and what does he want to do ? Make it worse classic stupidity by an idiot that wants the glory headline.Money money money,spend spend spend waste waste waste Brown at his best/worst.
This is the Green man who dramatically REDUCED photo voltaic cell grants the micro generation at point of usage that made sense.
Then ask the intellectual midget where all the batteries and their disposal is going to come from/go to
Still I guess a special recycling landfill tax will take care of that .I suspect the future of the car may be hydrogen but that needs energy.
electric GREEN cars
[info]philh1963 wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 07:10 am (UTC)
The world is spemding billions on energy saving and has gone mad on electric vehicle technology, BUT, what about the consecuences, HOW are electric cars any more green than petrol or deisel. The truth is that they are far worse for the enviroment than ordinary modes of transport. Lets look at this logically, Electric cars run on electricity, they have to be charged a number of times a day. SO more electricity is needed, more fossel fules have to be burned and more polution is made to run the cars, At the moment a car can be disposed of by recycling, Crushing and reusing the metal, Imagine how much battery acid will be in an electric car, the body will no doubt be plastic or resin based therefore unrecyclable. GREEN CARS Definately not.
Pipe dream
[info]ptstroud wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 07:10 am (UTC)
So what do we need to run electric cars? Electricity. And what is happening to our electrical generation industry? It is declining and needs many more power stations anyway. But it is going to be years before we get much needed clean nuclear power. Hundred of thousands of windmills will certainly not do the job, even if we can build them in time, and we will need to build more coal fired stations. But forget carbon capture technology because that is years away and incredibly inefficient.
Add to this the time necessary to research, design, produce a prototype, tool up and manufacture electric cars and we end up with just another aspiration. Brown is either completely deluded or he is, as always, trying to pull the wool over our collective eyes.
Funny how Brown follows Obama's rhetoric. Mr President keeps banging on about millions of green jobs and many sane Americans are beginning to realise this is justa pipe dream.
Dream, Dream Dream...
[info]neil639 wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 07:13 am (UTC)
Pipe dreams from a man who has only months left in office.
'Hash' Brown in fantasy land
[info]thorntongate wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 07:16 am (UTC)
someofusknow

A magnificent post.

Recently Shell have abandoned all that rhetoric about greenery.

As recently as 28 February the New Scientist carried a full-page ad from Shell extolling its green cred which mentioned wind and solar among its investments.

On 17 March The Guardian reported that they were dumping both in favour of the CCS scam.

Since it is vanishingly unlikely that Mr 'Atlantic', a.k.a. Gordon Brown, would consider anything other than private sector 'solutions' to the problems posed by climate change and peak oil, it's clear that nothing will be done.

Only yesterday a European Investment Bank bailout for the car industry failed to mention anything about reducing CO2 emissions.

Carry on spinning, Gordo!
Wrong technology....again
[info]sportingmac wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 07:20 am (UTC)
Oh boy - another wrong technology. For a technical review of Fuel Celss versus Battery cars take a look at Top Gear. James May did a brilliant review of Fuel cells. And if you need futher proof of right-thinking on Fuel Cells go look at the 400mile motorway stretch in Norway - it has already put in place teh Hydrogen distribution points.

As James & Jeremy tell you - 200miles + 10 hour recharge time is no contest for 200miles + 2 minutes to refuel. The future is the car with Fuel cells and not a car using batteries.

But hey-ho Gordon has been wrong on so many things recently.......
The exhaust pipe is currently just in another place...
[info]junkkmale wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 07:39 am (UTC)
...also an apt political metaphor for Dear Leader and his knee-jerk 'initiatives'.

At first glance looks a win win, and hence welcome.

However, the elephant in the room, or the 500kg flat battery in the middle of nowhere, is the not so small enviROI issue of what produces the 'leccy for now and into the foreseeable future.

At least there is a suggestion that the UK exports most of these vehicles to countries where the power to the wheels does not come with a carbon consequence, but I'd be keen to find out more on this as it is currently 'vague'. And many in the MSM seem unchallenging on this.

I am sure things can happen in complement, but wouldn't it make more sense for emissions to have the power supply sorted first (which can surely have the knock-on of helping micro-generation networks?) or at least well in advance?

There is also the not so small matter of what no to low carbon is actually going to be developed to generate this 'leccy; a matter I fear not best decided by desperate pols looking to score a short term point with the media and hence public, egged on by EU targets, subsidy-addicted lobbyists, etc.
Spinning...
[info]junkkmale wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 07:53 am (UTC)
Looking back, Mr. Brown's green commitment seems the only high-speed revolving system that could possibly be harnessed reliably.
Its Fantasy Mr Brown
[info]frankiew wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 08:10 am (UTC)
Just a few questions Mr Brown:
1) Where will all the electricity come from to power these cars?
2) Just how long will the queues be at the national network of power points at the roadside where the car batteries will be recharged? (Just think the time it takes to recharge a mobile phone or an electric shaver.)
3) Where will the materials come from to manufacture these batteries?
4) And how do we dispose of these batteries?
In Quantum Physics there is a principle called Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Fundamentally it says that the more certain you make one thing the more uncertain you make another.
browns dream
[info]bowesy wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 08:10 am (UTC)
Mc Fucking Bankrupt has been dreaming for 12 years.

This is just a cheap attempt at vote buying - show us the detail Emperor Brown - but get dressed first.
i beg of you!
[info]acidpen wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 08:11 am (UTC)
will someone please unplug Gordon Brown?!
trams please, NOT smoky buses!
[info]lodger41 wrote:
Wednesday, 8 April 2009 at 08:18 am (UTC)
IF Brown is serious about going green , the first step is to bring back the trams to london streets................
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