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Expenses scandal claims more victims - but huge payouts await

By Nigel Morris, Deputy Political Editor

Margaret Moran has been referred to a disciplinary committee

PA

Margaret Moran has been referred to a disciplinary committee

The expenses scandal claimed further victims last night with the announcement that two Conservative MPs – Sir Peter Viggers and Anthony Steen – will resign their seats at the next election. Sir Peter will step down as MP for Gosport in Hampshire "at the direct request" of David Cameron after spending tens of thousands of pounds on gardening, including a £1,645 bill for a floating "duck island", while Mr Steen, the MP for Totnes in Devon who claimed £87,729 on his luxurious country house, will also leave the Commons.

The future of a third leading Conservative, Bill Wiggin, was also in doubt after The Daily Telegraph claimed that the Conservative whip – a contemporary of Mr Cameron's at Eton – claimed £11,000 in interest payments for a property without a mortgage. He insisted he had not profited and had made "an administrative error", but he could join Labour's "phantom mortage" MPs Elliot Morley and David Chaytor in facing possible criminal proceedings.

Mr Wiggin, the MP for Leominster in Herefordshire, filed for the expenses after declaring that his constituency property was his second home. He stressed yesterday that he meant to claim for his London residence instead.

Public anger at the conduct of MPs is likely to be exacerbated by the news that any MP forced to quit over the expenses scandal will be in line for pay-offs of more than £100,000 and pensions of up to £30,000 a year.

Tory MP Douglas Hogg, who submitted a bill for cleaning his moat, has already announced his retirement, while three Labour MPs – Mr Morley, Mr Chaytor and Margaret Moran, who claimed £22,500 on expenses to treat dry rot at her "second home" over 100 miles from her Luton constituency, will be summoned next week to a disciplinary panel to defend their claims. Gordon Brown has warned that no MP who has "defied the rules" on expenses will be allowed to stand at the next election.

MPs embroiled in the scandal remain entitled to two pay-offs so long as they serve until the general election, rather than resign immediately. All MPs who step down, or are defeated, at an election are paid a "resettlement grant" designed to compensate for loss of salary. It ranges between six months' and one year's pay depending on age and length of service in the Commons.

An MP aged between 55 and 64 who has been in Parliament for 15 years will be paid a year's salary – £64,766 at current rates. The first £30,000 is tax-free. In addition, all MPs can claim a maximum of £40,799 for "winding-up costs" to pay off staff and end office leases. Politicians also benefit from a generous final salary pension scheme heavily subsidised by the taxpayer.

* Two Labour peers, Lord Truscott and Lord Taylor of Blackburn, have been suspended from the Lords for six months after being found guilty of offering to amend laws for cash – the first time such a sanction has been used in more than 350 years.

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If there should be no rewards for bankers who have failed....
[info]2barrows wrote:
Wednesday, 20 May 2009 at 11:39 pm (UTC)

....then there should be no compensation for MPs who have acted improperly. But as bankers seem to have had plenty of rewards for failure, despite Brown's assertions, we know where this is going. The words "feather" and "nest" come to mind.
mR cAMERON - SACK THEM
[info]mike4626 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 07:20 am (UTC)
they continue to screw the public purse by being allowed to resign. They must be sacked.
Re: mR cAMERON - SACK THEM - [info]longon - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 12:20 pm (UTC) Expand
E-Petition to ask HM The Queen to dissolve parliament and call a general election
[info]uk_pipster wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 12:22 am (UTC)
Re: E-Petition to ask HM The Queen to dissolve parliament and call a general election
[info]celticwelshman wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 01:12 am (UTC)
1209 and counting, forwarded the website to all in my email address book.
Why? - [info]cronyblatcher - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 01:12 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Why? - [info]almightymat - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 03:42 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Why? - [info]cronyblatcher - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 04:29 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Why? - [info]almightymat - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 04:34 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Why? - [info]celticwelshman - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:27 pm (UTC) Expand
God Almighty.
[info]thisanthat wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 04:03 am (UTC)
Does it not just stink to high heaven? Talk about heads I win tails you lose these creatures are perfect thieves. The whole public service regime it appears is the epitome of corruption.
There is almost no parallel in the lives of everyday folk bankers and solicitors are the exception for these blatant acts of misappropriation.
Whatever happens it is guaranteed this scurrilous bunch are laughing all the way to the bank.
Re: God Almighty.
[info]jj9876 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 09:04 am (UTC)
Well said.

They are still playing the system. That they can resign at the time of the General Election and get the pay off amounting to 100,000 plus the 30,000 pension. In the case of the Tories that means Cameron is complicit. No doubt Brown will be even worse.

If we had committed fraud, we would be arrested, DNA taken and ultimately imprisoned at the Majesty's pleasure. We would also have to pay back double the amount owed after HMRC had added their penalties. Instead, not only do they get away with it, they are massively rewarded. This cannot be right. Somehow the people need to take control and take action, but how can we do this?
Re: God Almighty. - [info]uanime5 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 11:53 am (UTC) Expand
Re: God Almighty. - [info]jj9876 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 12:55 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: God Almighty. - [info]charles_geach - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 01:02 pm (UTC) Expand
expenses scandal
[info]victormc wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 05:37 am (UTC)
Staggeringly, the local constituency party committees for both Moran and and Blears (to name but a few) only yesterday gave them their 'full support' so not even they are taking any notice of Broon. The stupidity of these people is breathtaking and they obviously have no idea what is really going on in the country right now. DC and NC tell all your MPs to resign today (200 by-elections- I don't think so) and a GE will follow in a few weeks.
Re: expenses scandal
[info]longon wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 12:40 pm (UTC)


In the case of Ms Blears, her local CPL chairman - quoted in the Manchester Evening News - John Cullen, said he was unaware of anyone wanting to push for her deselection. he went on "It has not even been raised and, if it was, it would be instantly dismissed". The secretary, chairman and treasurer of the CLP issued a joint statement " Hazel Blears will be our Labour candidate at the next General Election. We have full confidence in her".

This, despite hundreds of letters, almost everyone of them extremely hostile, telling Ms Blears to get on her bike." Not even raised, instantly dismissed, full confidence". I'm sure that local papers everywhere will be echoing similar sentiments about their own MPs caught with their fingers in the till, it's worth a look. When I have finished this, I'll take a look at what the Gosport Bugle has to say, then a few others maybe...
Re: expenses scandal - [info]victormc - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 01:23 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]abha74 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 05:47 am (UTC)
We are all being taken for fools. If any other citizen fiddled expenses they would be sacked and face a criminal investigation yet this morally bankrupt gang of thieves think an apology and repaying the money should get them off the hook. Next thing they will start congratulating themselves for their "years of distinguished service to the country". I accept not all MPs are involved in this scam but the ones who are should be deselected and face a Police investigation. Failure to do this simply confirms that we the ordinary citizens are held in utter contempt by this government of charlatans.
So this is what Brown means by "No Reward for Failure"
[info]deimosp wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 06:50 am (UTC)
Is it

a) that Brown thinks that 100k lump sum plus 30k per year is "no reward"
b) that the "no reward for failure" does not apply to the political classes
c) that destroying the reputation of Parliament and destroying public confidence in the political system is not "failure"
d) "No Reward for Failure" is just a Spin Dr. generated sound bite that Brown does not understand or never actually meant to act on.

Either way, how does this reflect on Brown and his ability to implement what he says.

Its like with Beamer Blears: Her behavior is "totally unacceptable", yet he will not act, has complete confidence (probably complete confidence she would do exactly the same again given the chance).
"My Word Is My Bond" - the words never spoke by Brown
[info]deimosp wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 06:54 am (UTC)
Is it

a) that Brown thinks that 100k lump sum plus 30k per year is "no reward"
b) that the "no reward for failure" does not apply to the political classes
c) that destroying the reputation of Parliament and destroying public confidence in the political system is not "failure"
d) "No Reward for Failure" is just a Spin Dr. generated sound bite that Brown does not understand or never actually meant to act on.

Either way, how does this reflect on Brown and his ability to implement what he says.

Its like with Beamer Blears: Her behavior is "totally unacceptable", yet he will not act, has complete confidence (probably complete confidence she would do exactly the same again given the chance).
Pensions
[info]maggie43 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:06 am (UTC)
Think it only right they should get a pension on retiring at 60/65
a state pension

If the leaders really intend to put things right they should state now
all mp s resigning because of the expenses scandal will not be entitled to golden handshakes or
any other payment and they will only receive the monies they have paid in - nothing else

Is it true all those paying back taxes [hazel blears] will have their cheques returned.
nice.
Corrupt from the bottom to the top
[info]godscrusader wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:38 am (UTC)

Any corrupt government or political party should face the full force of our laws. MPs who cheat their expenses should be dealt with in the same way the law would treat us if we were Benefits fraudsters or Drug dealers who financially gain from their crime. They should be charged for their crimes and made to pay back all the money they stole as well as pay a heavy fine to the Tax payers.

Whilst disabled people are being forced off their benefits to make savings on the Government public spending MPs are wasting that money saved on their own Lavish Life styles and doing up their bloody Mansions?????. They are Crooks, all of them. Cons, Labour and the Liberal Dems are all as bad as each other, Greedy self righteous dictating liars the whole lot of them. Don't worry this won't make me vote BNP it will make me vote Independent every time now. Sorry Gordon, David and Nick I ain't voting for your lot anymore, no no no.

Micheal Martin, Pffft, Don't get me started. He's another greedy Fat Pig that grows wealthy off the poor working class. SHAME ON YOU, SHAME ON ALL OF YOU!
Re: Corrupt from the bottom to the top
[info]uanime5 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 11:58 am (UTC)
Our laws allow politictians to claim lots of things on their expenses. As they are not breaking the law they cannot have committed fraud and therefore cannot be punished liek fraudsters. Politictians may be crooked but they are not stupid.
Re: Corrupt from the bottom to the top - [info]cronyblatcher - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 01:34 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Corrupt from the bottom to the top - [info]palestinian_ian - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 03:17 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Corrupt from the bottom to the top - [info]almightymat - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 03:17 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Corrupt from the bottom to the top - [info]cronyblatcher - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 04:34 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Corrupt from the bottom to the top - [info]almightymat - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 04:41 pm (UTC) Expand
They are still playing the system
[info]jj9876 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:44 am (UTC)
They are still playing the system. That they can resign at the time of the General Election and get the pay off amounting to 100,000 plus the 30,000 pension. In the case of the Tories that means Cameron is complicit. No doubt Brown will be even worse.

If we had committed fraud, we would be arrested, DNA taken and ultimately imprisoned at the Majesty's pleasure. We would also have to pay back double the amount owed after HMRC had added their penalties. Instead, not only do they get away with it, they are massively rewarded. This cannot be right. Somehow the people need to take control and take action, but how can we do this?
Re: They are still playing the system
[info]victormc wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:58 am (UTC)
Absolutely correct, it's all about money again, if the so called 'opposition' leaders had any guts.........
Quack!
[info]allthatshizz wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 08:48 am (UTC)
For perhaps the first time in history a duck has made the front page of a broadsheet, courtesy of the mallard-related shenanigans of one Sir Peter Viggers and his expenses quack-ery.
Spotify once again, provides an apposite musical backdrop

www.riphertoshreds.co.uk/the-beat-goes-on/spotified/
Huge Payouts
[info]twellian057 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 09:01 am (UTC)
Whatever happened to the idea that criminals should not benefit from their crimes?
Re: Huge Payouts
[info]jj9876 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 10:29 am (UTC)
That is correct. MP's passed laws that means criminals would have their proceeds of crime confiscated.

The confiscation order, of course, only applies to us, the public, however, they seem to be immune to the laws that they have passed onto us. Another to add to the long list of hypocrisies that Gordon Brown and Labour have perpetrated against the British public since 1997. (Other MP's also being complicit as well, as no doubt they have voted for these laws to, and now they skirt past them in this expenses debacle).
Re: Huge Payouts - [info]uanime5 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 12:02 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Huge Payouts - [info]jj9876 - Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 12:29 pm (UTC) Expand
no government
[info]doomsdaybug wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 09:23 am (UTC)
I feel violated
[info]jorgec wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 09:41 am (UTC)
Where is my 'pay off' for being bullied out of my local government job and consequently losing my home? I know I am not the only one in that situation.The same rules and laws should apply to everyone. There cannot be one rule for the people and another for the Government and bankers. The 'gods' in government made the rules and should pay the same price for breaking them as 'mere mortals'.
Can they not see why we think they are so despicable?
[info]alazarin wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 09:42 am (UTC)
Take the money and run? Pah, Hang 'em high like the cutpurse thieves they are.
Peter Viggers
[info]njc2009 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 09:56 am (UTC)
Why is a millionaire claiming public money for his pond in the first place? Let's have a by-election and he can retire to his island in peace: http://thestupidtimes.blogspot.com/2009/05/mp-retiring-over-taxpayer-funded-secret.html
Just another day in the pigpen
[info]rob1953 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 10:21 am (UTC)
It was in the rules voters, which you can't deny
But who made the rules came the angry cry
What about honour, decency, morals and such
Politicians don't have them, we wouldn't make as much
Pay - offs
[info]marinebigmike wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 10:28 am (UTC)
And these scoundrels complain about 'Fred the Shred'
Expenses Scandal
[info]hoody_youth wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 11:26 am (UTC)
This is supposed to be a democracy where the electorate has ultimate power
Its time we used it.
Re: Expenses Scandal
[info]uanime5 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 12:04 pm (UTC)
The electorate has never has unlimited power, Parliament has always had unlimited power and the public may choose who rules they every 5 years.
MP's
[info]piddle1 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 12:30 pm (UTC)
The problem for the electorate is that who can we trust at the next election? As there will be many unknown people up for election, we really have no idea as to their honesty and potential for financial machinations.

We can only vote and hope, but Parliament could do more. Why not have all MP's elected on a one year trial basis, their expenses, outside earnings etc published every month, and at the end of the year give each local constituency the opportunity to vote again if 10% of the electorate sign a petition for this.

Closer scrutiny is essential if we are to be able to monitor the future of Parliamentary effectiveness and trustwothiness.
less talk and more action..
[info]king_munch wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 01:44 pm (UTC)
there really is one law for us and another for them.
what with the met police brutalising legitimate protesters (g20), mi5 instituted police state and stasi like tactics (re: todays independent) and politicians lining their pockets at our expense whilst supervising the biggest swindle of the uk economy and public funds ever seen, our options, as regards showing disapproval and dissent are seriously cutailed.

time for some serious civil disobediance methinks?

mass non payment of council tax? mass spoiling of ballot papers?

if one skinny man in a loincloth can win back india......
Expenses scandal victims get huge payouts
[info]palestinian_ian wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 02:40 pm (UTC)
The message is simple: cheat as much as yiou can on your claims, if you get caught - plead it was an honbest error, and hang on to your seat untikl the next eklection rather than resign. Your punishment is a big pay-off and you still get your pension. What we need to know is - is the pension paid at age 65 like the rest of us, or do these "victims" receive it on leaving office?
THIEVES IN GOVERNMENT
[info]eve57 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 03:00 pm (UTC)
Why are these thieves being allowed to step down????? If I stole or claimed false expenses in my job, I would be fired. Confiscate their pensions to pay for the bogus expense reports and to pay back their salaries for the years they were being paid for stealing; take their assets to pay off the bogus expenses debt. When no action is taken against such thieves, then it speaks of how the rest of the government must feel about theft.... It's not an individual government even, it's the just acceptance of dishonest and low-life behavior these days. There are too many excuses for poor conduct. Everyone is Nannified with excuses for everything. 'Poor little dear, his Mommy shouted at him and that's why he can't stop killing people'. I'm sick of excuses. Suck it up England and make the common criminal pay in jail. Build more jails and get the existing prisoners to build them. Start at the top, when the people at the top are garbage, then how can you expect the rot not to infest the whole country? One last comment. I suggest that Ms. Morgan should have spent some of the money on fashion, that hat is the most God awful thing I've ever seen. Women with small dumpy faces should not draw attention to their heads, unless to cover the face as well, a veil would have been more flattering. Ex Pat and thank God for not to be paying taxes there.
MPs
[info]giz301 wrote:
Thursday, 21 May 2009 at 03:14 pm (UTC)
why Mps aren't treated like any other public employee,is beyond me,unless of course they want to standardise their allowances,expenses,pension and redundancy payments across the whole of the public sector....after all they're not 'special' are they??
Pension and Pay-Offs for Disgraced MPs
[info]myrdyn wrote:
Saturday, 23 May 2009 at 12:51 am (UTC)
I would like to point out that any long serving member of the Armed Forces who is forced to resign over any offence, automatically loses all pension rights - and they certainly do not recieve a lump sum pay-off. This whole situation is becoming a bigger 'can of worms' by the day.
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