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SNP makes the case for Scottish independence

Salmond uses St Andrew's Day to launch campaign to break up the Union

By Jonathan Brown

Alex Salmond

PA

Alex Salmond launches his White Paper for a vote on constitutional reform

Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond set out on the road to fulfilling his lifelong political ambition yesterday by launching a White Paper that he hopes could lead to a referendum delivering full independence from Westminster possibly as early as next year.

Unveiled on St Andrew's Day against the backdrop of a Saltire, the Scottish National Party leader insisted that Scots were unwilling to tolerate the status quo any longer and that politicians who blocked their right to vote on more powers for Holyrood would pay with their seats come the next election.

"It is time for people to have their say on Scotland's future. The debate in Scottish politics is no longer between change or no change – it's about the kind of change we seek and the right of the people to choose their future in a free and fair referendum," he said.

But despite the vaunting rhetoric and patriotic setting, the occasion was strangely muted and critics were quick to point out that the 176-page document, a glossy brochure entitled Your Scotland, Your Voice, lacked important detail and showed how weak the SNP leader really was on the question.

In the face of stubbornly low support for independence – the most recent Ipsos Mori poll found only one in five backed going it alone – Mr Salmond said he was willing to negotiate over some of the key proposals.

Video: SNP sets out referendum plan

These included the wording and number of referendum questions, when the ballot would take place and what electoral system would be used.

The main opposition parties all condemned the announcement safe in the knowledge that they would easily be able to defeat an SNP-backed referendum Bill at Holyrood. Mr Salmond has a parliamentary majority of just one over Labour and can only rely on the support of two Scottish Green Party MSPs and an independent – leaving him far short of the number he requires to make the referendum a reality.

Labour, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats are all strongly in favour of maintaining the Union and have thrown their weight behind the recent findings of the Calman Commission which recommends substantial extra powers for Scotland.

Labour leader Iain Gray said Mr Salmond was "out of touch" with Scots over the plans which would cost £9m. The White Paper, which follows a two-year consultation process involving 15,000 Scots, sets out four possible scenarios: no change in the current system of devolved government; more devolution as recommended by the Calman Commission; a further degree of devolution; and full independence.

Under "full devolution" – alternatively dubbed "devolution max or devolution lite" – the Scottish Parliament would be granted control over collecting the "vast majority" of revenues in Scotland – and the vast majority of spending in Scotland. The Scottish Government would also be entrusted with powers to borrow money for capital investment and infrastructure projects.

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Comments

Scottish Independence now that Oil is Finished
[info]alexweir1949 wrote:
Tuesday, 1 December 2009 at 06:06 am (UTC)
Scottish Independence now that Oil is Finished

Independence made sense 30 years ago when oil was only starting to be extracted. One has to wonder did the Nationalists at the time of the Referendum screw up or was the referendum rigged?

Britain generally is in for a rough ride in the next 5-10 years. Pull together and wait for the economic good times before breaking away. Where possible counter the regressive and anti-people laws and regulations which diminish people's legitimate rights. Such actions may well even force Westminster to do the Right Thing also for our English brothers and sisters.

The struggle should not be Scottish vs. English but People vs. the Modern quasi-fascist State.

Mr Alex Weir, Baghdad and Harare


Re: Scottish Independence now that Oil is Finished
[info]midwinter1947 wrote:
Tuesday, 1 December 2009 at 01:12 pm (UTC)
Do you remember the English natural gas that was discovered off East Anglia and Lincolnshire in the Southern North Sea?

No, neither do I. It was a UK resource.
Make the break - step by step
[info]16tim16 wrote:
Tuesday, 1 December 2009 at 08:33 am (UTC)
I think the SNP have got it about right. Scotland seems to have a much broader view of its future role than just being a minor part of an inward-looking UK.

What an exciting prospect for those north of the border - to decide your own future, make your own laws, join the EU as full and enthusiastic partners.

What a miserable alternative - take the crumbs from the Westminster table, and hang onto the coat-tails of those south of the border who seem determined to let the country sink into international insignificance.
Re: Make the break - step by step
[info]joethecrow wrote:
Tuesday, 1 December 2009 at 08:44 am (UTC)
I think the question as to wether or not to break up the Union should be put to all of the people of the Union. You might be very surprised at how many Englishmen would like to see the back of the peripheral drain on the economy. Please push for full independance and good luck. I hope you fare well.

The removal of the dead weight will be a stimulus for the South.

Good luck and good riddance.
Re: Make the break - step by step
[info]16tim16 wrote:
Tuesday, 1 December 2009 at 09:08 am (UTC)
I too think that separation would be a stimulus for those south of the border - an opportunity to completely re-assess their future. The country seems to have slid into the depths of misery.

If both parties will benefit then why not do it amicably?

I'm sure people on the Welsh side of the border will have a view, too.
Commonwealth
[info]andyringo wrote:
Tuesday, 1 December 2009 at 11:41 am (UTC)
Britain does not need to be splintered into it's constituent elements. Devolution is not the answer. Britain requires Federalism. Purely, simply. The progressive elements that may support Scottish independence need to be coopted into a federal commonwealth. A revived nation with a renewed sense of purpose and morale can sweep away multicultural nonsense and embrace British identity, in the manner Americans in their 50 states do. Such a nation could revive its international credibility, invest in its owm infrastructure, reduce its dependence on foreign hostiles and become the EU's leading nation. This will only be achieved when the North and South English, Lowland and Highland Scots, North and South Welsh and myriad Northern Irish realise they are brothers (and sisters) in arms.

I live in hope.

All the best

AR
Independence?
[info]midwinter1947 wrote:
Tuesday, 1 December 2009 at 11:51 am (UTC)
I have problems with the idea of independence.

The nation-state has not been the best idea of humankind as the history of the 20th century shows - where nations have been able to resource their conflicts to industrial and global levels.

I do not believe that true sovereignty exists in the modern globalised economy where companies such as Microsoft have annual earnings which exceed those of states including some states with nuclear-armaments.

Also, as so many of the problems that we face are trans-national (terrorism, global warming, over-fishing, loss of habitat and biodiversity, employment going overseas) what can smaller and smaller states do but work together.

Ordinary, everyday life (the stuff that is missing from most history books) is little different between broadly similar countries. I have had long discussions about this with an Irish friend who is very proud of his family relationship to Michael Collins. Our discussions took in the rule of law, taxes, education, second-homes, traffic jams, you name it. It was obvious that life in Ireland was really very little different from life in the UK and it made us wonder: what had all the suffering actually been for? I have also lived for a number of years in France and Portugal and this experience has only reinforced my view.

In fact, the real difference between one country and another is that they have a different government with different politicians (all saying much the same as each other). So, we have the real reason for Alex Salmond's referendum - 'I want to be the biggest fish in the pond, even if the pond is smaller'.
[info]brazierdv wrote:
Tuesday, 1 December 2009 at 06:35 pm (UTC)
Salmond cannot win a vote on full independence. He knows it; this is a ploy to euchre more tax revenue out of Westminster.
Would be sad to see Scotland go
[info]g7thand wrote:
Tuesday, 8 December 2009 at 01:51 pm (UTC)
It would be a real shame if Scotland did leave the Union. I am Northern Irish and studied in Scotland.

The comment by the anti-UK 'Englishman' below was rather unpleasant. I don't disagree that there are plenty of you in England but you should get your facts right - we keep ourselves afloat, thank you very much.

I should also remind you that in WWII, five of the seven British Field Marshals were Ulstermen, including Field Marshal Montgomery. Also, I believe 70% of the SAS are Scottish. Good luck in the south!
real comment
[info]eu_citizen wrote:
Saturday, 12 December 2009 at 02:18 pm (UTC)
Hello to all of you

I am not a British citizen, I am an EU citizen first of all

I am UK resident because I am really impressed of British history, education, musician, sports, and many more

With an international influence , the UK without Scotland would be devastated even collapsed

It it is incredible that many people like me as EU citizens not British citizens are willing a strong UK and some British people from Scotland didn't see the essence of our world

I care about UK future even I am not a British citizen as I told you

I think , my comment should be taken account by the Leadership of this country because they can make a HUGE HUGE MISTAKE if Scotland will become independent

p.s. you all should be proud of UK roots

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