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Two more scientists quit as drugs row grows

Lord Winston accuses Home Secretary of knee-jerk reaction over sacking

By Jeremy Laurance, Health Editor

Alan Johnson

PA

Home Secretary Alan Johnson sacked Professor Nutt after he criticised government policy on drugs

The Government's hard-line stance on illegal drugs appeared to be unravelling yesterday as two more scientists on its advisory council quit in protest at the sacking of their chairman, Professor David Nutt.

Dr Les King resigned from the 21-member Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, saying Home Secretary Alan Johnson had denied Professor Nutt's right to "freedom of expression".

He was followed by Marion Walker, the council representative from the Royal Pharmaceutical Society. There were predictions last night that more departures would follow.

Professor Nutt was forced to resign on Friday after he had repeatedly criticised the Government for ignoring scientific evidence on drugs presented by the council which he chaired. Over the weekend, he predicted there would be further resignations and said most members were "extremely angry" over what had happened. He added that the position of scientists on the council was "untenable".

The row was sparked by Professor Nutt's comments that ecstasy and LSD were less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes. He also criticised the decision to upgrade cannabis to class B. He has returned several times to these themes in public statements, to the increasing irritation of ministers.

Dr King, former head of the Home Office's Drugs Intelligence Unit, said: "Professor Nutt may be an adviser but he's still got the right to say what he likes. That was being denied."

The Government had the right to reject the council's advice but its attitude towards the council had changed "very recently". The council was being forced to operate to a "pre-defined political agenda", he said.

"It's being asked to rubber stamp a pre-determined position. If sufficient members do resign, the committee will no longer be able to operate."

Lord Winston, the Labour peer and broadcaster and renowned former fertility specialist, said yesterday he was "very surprised and disappointed" at Mr Johnson's decision to sack Professsor Nutt. He accused the Government of a "knee-jerk" reaction and warned it would be ignored if it gave advice to the public that did not take account of scientists' opinions.

Defending his decision to sack Professor Nutt, Mr Johnson said he had "crossed a line" from providing advice to political lobbying. "You can do one or the other. You can't do both," he said.

Video: Top drug adviser quits

Liberal Democrat science spokesman Dr Evan Harris said he had spoken to a number of scientists over the weekend. He said: "I fear there will be many more resignations unless the Government acts to restore confidence among its independent scientific advisers."

Sir Liam Donaldson, the Government's Chief Medical Officer, appeared to lend support to Mr Johnson's view when he told BBC TV's Andrew Marr show that Professor Nutt's situation had been "very controversial".

"These things are best sorted out behind the scenes so that the Government and their advisers can go to the public with a united front," he said.

Another member of the advisory council told The Independent: "It is tempting to make a rushed decision or a hasty public statement. But it is best in these situations to step back and take a breather."

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Comments

The JFK shooting video method...
[info]king_farian wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 01:02 am (UTC)


"These things are best sorted out behind the scenes so that the Government and their advisers can go to the public with a united front," he said.

The JFK 'shooting', video method... or the 'look! these are Aliens' method.... ha ha ha erm...

;').
The Sacking of Professor David Nutt
[info]sandwichman88 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 02:26 am (UTC)
The Government has made a big mistake by attempting to gag the debate on drugs policy, by dismissing Prof Nutt. In so doing it shows how far out of touch with the realities the Government has become. Rather like the war in Afghanistan, the "war" on drugs is virtually lost anyway as large sectors of the public are aware. The two wars are inextricably linked and if we do decide that the war in Afghanistan is unwinnable in it's present form,where does this Government, or the next for that matter, take the war on drugs which is actually equally unwinnable the way they are fighting it.There are clear arguments in favour of decriminalising all drugs. The US had to swallow this particular bitter pill when it abandoned alcohol Prohibition in the 20's. So what's so different today? Illegal bootlegging and associated criminality vitually disappeared then and it would be fair to say the same will happen when all drugs are similarly treated today in every society. Who knows? Win the drugs war first and we would win the war in Afghanistan where the insurgency is largely fuelled with the profits from the Heroin trade.
Re: The Sacking of Professor David Nutt
[info]terry_hamblin wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 12:39 pm (UTC)
Ending prohibition certainly did away with the criminality associated with alcohol, but it did nothing for the medical harm caused by the drug not for the social breakdown it still causes. Even making the drug very expensive does not prevent people making their own or bringing it in from countries where it is very cheap. We have years of experience of the harm caused by tobacco and alcohol, but no large systematic studies involving substantial populations on the harm of other drugs. These would be very hard to do, given the criminality that would contaminate such studies. Nutt is basing his view on inadequate information and the suspicion is that it is fueled by prejudice.
Re: The Sacking of Professor David Nutt
[info]tedmuller wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 10:51 pm (UTC)
The irony of the situation with regards to Afghanistan is that while British troops burn the Opium crop in that country, the UK government license and support the production of Opium poppies in the UK for our pharmaceutical companies... There is no doubt in my mind that 'public health' is not even on the political agenda. Money, control and greed most certainly is. Oh... and didn't the pharmaceutical companies get a tax break during the recent budget?
The sacking of Prof.David Nutt
[info]berthadeeblues wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 03:50 am (UTC)
Sandwichman88 has it right in regard of the overall situation.
In this individual situation by sacking the Professor,Johnson has overreacted in an attempt to be seen to be in charge, a classic error. Subsequently, when using a familiar New Labour tactic of discrediting a critic to deflect attention away from his own failure,Johnson let slip that political dogma and not scientific evidence is behind the government's stance on the subject of drugs.
This has the feeling of a relatively minor spat blowing up into a full scale row dealing another blow to an already beleaguered government reminiscent of John Major's in its
death throes.
JOHNSON IS THE ONE WHO SHOULD RESIGN:
[info]bgarvie wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 05:24 am (UTC)
As Home Secretary, Johnson has demonstrated a fit of peak and his pride has been hurt. He has been made to look a fool. (Not difficult in this Government). This former post office union boss thinks he knows all the answers, but in typical Labour style doesn't listen to criticism. Typical of a Government losing its grip on reality. No wonder their scientific advisors are resigning.
It's just like the former USSR
[info]reinertorheit wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 06:12 am (UTC)

Get a Stalinist postie with a chip on his shoulder about people from Universities. Make sure he's got no qualifications whatsoever for being Home Secretary.

Make him Home Secretary. Allow him to rule on the law of the land from the basis of his own (extensive) personal bigotries and idiotic whims. Call this "the law".

The only difference is that Nutt hasn't yet been murdered the way they got David Kelly - but it's still on the cards, of course.
Re: It's just like the former USSR
[info]sickofstupidity wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 05:17 pm (UTC)
Haha - spot on! :o)
[info]blahflowers wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 06:38 am (UTC)
If Alan Johnson doesn't want to live in the 'evidence based reality' that the majority of us prefer then that is his right. However, he doesn't have the power to insist anyone else must live in it with him.
Reefer Madness
[info]advena5 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 07:21 am (UTC)
Given the Independent's recent 'reefer madness' editorial policy would it be churlish to say I told you so? Will the Independent review its recent stance and opt to be on the side of science instead?
A wonderful show of leafership ...and paranoia
[info]sportingmac wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 07:50 am (UTC)
A public hanging will quell dissent - I think that was called Stalinsism at one point. Seems our Labour leaders are resorting to kind in tehir death throes.
Lie to your children is good for them/ not
[info]gaswork wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:24 am (UTC)
I would like to personally thanks Mr. Nutt what he was up against is a very thick wall of ignorance The UK has been well and truly conned - lied to in the most blatant show of arrogance and disregard for its citizens ever witnessed as stated his scientific credentials are "impeccable so are many more great scientists that goes against this sort of dictatorship the responsibility of a few Honest men that try to get the truth out weather you agree with them or not the science speaks for its self good news for some and bad news for some at the end of it all it’s the truth unless its proven otherwise as far as I can see it’s a first step towards honesty which has never been any government’s strong point the fact that these governments want us to believe in farther Christmas and not to question the leaders of New Labour and the likes towards hypocrisy (9000+ scientific all with PHDs against CO2 Hysteria) Brown has hit the fan and we are all covered in it with lies on
nutts
[info]watsonwata wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:56 am (UTC)
Does the government believe that people who take recreational drugs look at the label to see what class it is before they take it, of course they dont making cannabis class A would make no differance at all to consumption they would be better of putting money into drug education. They are never going to stop supply no matter how hard they try. It is a fact that recreational drugs are part of society that will be around for a long time and trying to deter people with severe penalities for recreational use serves no usefull purpose at all.What a waste of time who are they trying to kid if Mr johnstone wants something usefull to do he can come and clean my windows it about the limit of his capabilities and the rest of them can hold the ladder .
Legalize now!
[info]bleedingekk wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 09:29 am (UTC)
In Britain and the US, the so-called war on drugs is continuously being lost. Why? Simply because it is meant to be lost. Drugs and poverty are the two main ingredients in crime and crime is an extremely important part of the fabric of our complicated society. Millions of middle class jobs are connected to crime both in Britain and the US. To reduce crime in any significant way would cause an avalanche of jobs which would have serious repercussions for our poor middle classes. It’s sad I know, but yes, society is really that bad. In order for some to win many more must go under.

There is only one way to tackle the drugs problem and that’s to legalize it. Then you would have a situation where people would know what they were buying, could be offered help to get off and crime and prostitution would be dramatically reduced and organized crime would be hit hard. BUT we can’t have that can we?
a bit like an election really
[info]snowdonwatcher wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 09:37 am (UTC)
You have a vote & if you don't like the result you send them back to vote again. Eventually you get the result you want.
Only this time the scientists have decided that they don't want to change the truth; all that shows us is that a scientist is far too honest to be a politician!
You should have stayed ....
[info]rendevou5 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 09:45 am (UTC)
... a postman, Mr Johnson: I suppose you might not have been too bad - as a postman.
Re: You should have stayed ....
[info]reinertorheit wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 11:05 am (UTC)
ALAN JOHNSON AS A POSTMAN (PART ONE)

"Now, these idiots think this letter is going to 22 Willow Road? But I am Alan Johnson, and I know best! I'll deliver it to 17 Avondown Terrace instead. Now this parcel marked "fragile" - it won't go through the letterbox, but if I smash it up hard, it'll fit, eh? People just need to understand that I know better than they do, that's all. Next, this one's for 220 Blackstock Way... right down the far end! I can't be blowed to walk all the way down there... I'll just throw it away as usual..."
Hard line stance on illegal drigs unraveling...
[info]zansal wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 09:58 am (UTC)
New Labour's stance on drugs has been getting more an more reactionary as they realise all the money spent in combating illegal drugs and related crime has failed. Totally and utterly.

So now they are looking for scapegoats to deflect public anger at wasted time and wasted public money and dear old AJ has duly provided one.

Let's hope it is at the expense of his Labour leadership ambitions - we need a credible alternative to the Tories - not some ignorant, incompetent bully boy like AJ.
[info]ajwimble wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 11:09 am (UTC)
The fact that the government have made it clear that drugs policy is driven by tabloid hysteria and scientific advice is only of interest if it happens to support the action the Government has already decided to take, an advisory committee serves no useful purpose. I think the whole advisory committee should resign, rather than allowing itself to be used by the government to make totally untrue claims that its drug policies are in any way based on facts.
[info]baralawr wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 12:58 pm (UTC)
They might as well sack the entire panel and replace them with carefully selected newspaper columnists.
It's a relative argument
[info]itsalllrelative wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 12:31 pm (UTC)
The Govt. just want to send out the message that taking all these drugs is illegal and they don't want somebody with knowledge to influence/detract from that. However, there is also another issue. Proff. Nutt stated that e.g. Cannabis is not as harmful as tobacco or alchohol. Therefore, this is about relativity. How can you leave Cannabis and Ecstacy as illegal yet leave achohol and tobacco as legal. If the evidence shows that these legal drugs are more harmful then why not legalise e.g. cannabis or criminalise tobacco and alchohol. The point is that they should either all be legal or all be illegal. How can you one harmful drug as legal while leaving another as illegal?

The answer of course is simple - MONEY!! The govt make a fortune out of revenue from tobacco and alchohol.
[info]freedon4sale wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 07:12 pm (UTC)
Why Bruce Anderson wanted to spoil and poison the society more while the community is losing its boundary of ethics,manners and family ties.that is the behavior,but financially is worse
Bruce Anderson;,the government spent billions to treat drug abusers,just look and see how much efforts lost by treating them....!
anyone with ethics manners will not allow his children to be involved with this!
SOME like B.Anderson supports drud abusers...!
why did not Bruce support David Kelly when he criticized war and the "45 minute" story,? David Kelly was as same as David Nut, both of them were scientists.
Do we need this B.Anderson?
see the victims of these drugs imagine your son is one of them?
some time drugs effects are worse then death...!
many of them and their families are wishing that they die!!!!
Are you serious?
[info]tedmuller wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 11:03 pm (UTC)
There are winners and losers freedon4sale and judging by your comments, you're no winner... Some people are too lazy, some too fat and some a bit too crazy for their own good. That's life. BUT it's not acceptable to constantly stoop to the lowest common denominator in order to fight a case. Just because you have access to the pub does not make you an alcoholic. REMEMBER some of us are responsible adults... we do still exist.
Re: Are you serious?
[info]freedon4sale wrote:
Wednesday, 4 November 2009 at 04:44 pm (UTC)
????
Fact, Fiction and Peanuts
[info]thirdman01 wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 07:44 pm (UTC)

We need to separate fact from fiction. Professor Nutt and his team address scientific fact.

Alan Johnson made a compete fool of himself on TV allowing emotion and none rational reason was clearly display to all, when he tried to defend his not defendable reason for sacking Professor Nutt. It displayed that Alan Johnson is totally unfit for office. A Minister needs to be in control not out of control. Alan we always took freedom of speech to be a corner stone of our democracy until New Labour came along.

Our only saviour can be that the Libs Dem can gain those lost New Labour voters. And the fact the Lib Dems, like Charles Clarke recopgnise Alan Johnson’s clear lack of professionalism and bias judgement is worthy of note.

Allan was trying to support New Labour spin and fiction for political reasons only. They are afraid of change and why they will not call an election.

There is no doubt that USA Californian drug culture involving the use of cannabis in the 1960’s caused people to question society and the justification for the Vietnamese war and oppression of the minorities and black people. Rather than fighting and signing drunken football songs. This is what New Labour is afraid off. That people see the hypercritical nature of politics. But the expense scandal has already exposed politicians. There is nothing left to defend or worthy of defence.

Like prohibition in the 1930’s in the US, all New Labour have done is given a breeding ground for youth gang culture whom make an illegal living from supply. To me it appears that. It is not exactly that anyone taking cannabis is doing any harm to anyone other than the self. It does not exactly appear to cause people to fight like whiskey does. Alcohol is illegal for minors. I agree that cannabis should be the same, illegal for minors. But for the adult they should have freedom of choice. Like the adult has freedom of choice to buy whiskey.

The Dutch and the Swiss have had liberal laws for many years, with coffee shops and the like and it appears that their societies are far more orderly than the UK society.

Drink a bottle of whiskey and you are unlikely to survive? Yet I do not see any recorded deaths caused by cannabis? There will be exceptions since somebody somewhere is allergic to something. I like peanuts but they are fatal to others. Yet we do not ban peanuts? We seem to have many alcoholic and addicted tobacco smokers yet these drugs are readily available?

It is all a question of what rights do we give to individuals. Do we ban rock climbing since people fall and kill themselves. Do we ban football since people get injured? It is merely a question of what rights the state has to interfere with the personal choice of the adult?

Sacking the drug advisor Professor Nutt and forcing others to resign because they are denied by New Labour freedom of speech is total madness.

What happens if some new chemical drug comes along? Or someone discovers some new genetically modified plant that is a potent addictive. We have no experts to give advice?

Society is simply blighted by New Labour desire to control and after seeing the way New Labour controlled the economy, expenses, the banks and widened the gap between the rich and poor. There is not very much that incompetent New Labour are capable of controlling. Except their refusal to call an election so that we can have a democratically elected PM. Rather than the none elected PM imposed upon us

Really we need PR like the Lib Dems propose. This one party system is just a breeding ground for political dictatorships like New Labour. The expenses scandal clearly showed that politicians can never be trusted.
short memory ? or double standard? no otherwise.
[info]freedon4sale wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 08:01 pm (UTC)
where were Jeremy Laurance, Health Editor hiding when princes DIANA ,Dr.David Kelly showed their freedom of speech??
What happened to them??
that is double standard !!!
you as usual thinking the people have got short memory.....!

Drug policy
[info]victhebrit wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 11:47 pm (UTC)
I'm sure Gordon as well as the Home Office see the excise tax on cigarettes and alcohol as a healthy financial addition to Britain's budget deficit.

Now a scientist comes out to say the government is condoning two dangerous drugs while banning two or three other less dangerous narcotics reveals the government is less concerned with people's general health and more concerned with tax revenue

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