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Ancient but deadly: the return of shastar vidiya

Banned by the Raj, the world's original martial art is being revived by British Asians. Jerome Taylor reports

Nidar Singh Nihang, front, hopes to revive the ancient martial art of shastar vidiya

SUKHA SINGH

Nidar Singh Nihang, front, hopes to revive the ancient martial art of shastar vidiya

In a fluorescent-lit sports gymnasium at a sprawling sixth-form college in Hounslow, west London, three turbaned Sikh warriors are frantically battling each other with razor-sharp swords. Draped in flowing blue robes and sporting chest-length beards, the three men cavort, twist and counter-attack each other in a blur of clashing blades and skilled confusion.

Watched by scores of eagle-eyed students, the two younger combatants use elegant curved swords and small circular shields to attack a taller and older man who is armed with a long double-edged blade and a simple dagger. Each time his opponents bring their weapons down, the lone warrior nimbly dodges the blow by sidestepping away or deflecting it back on to one of his opponents.

After a brief pause the tall man walks forward, runs a hand through his thick beard and announces with a slight hint of a Black Country accent: "The next technique I'll teach you is one that can break both a man's arms in just three moves. In real life of course, once you've broken the first arm your opponent is not getting back up. But when you're practising it's best to learn how to break both."

The martial art that the men are practising is shastar vidiya – a now little-known fighting technique from north India that virtually died out when the British Raj banned it after the final, bloody defeat of the Sikh empire in the mid-19th century.

While Chinese and Japanese fighting forms such as kung fu and ju-jitsu have become national institutions, shastar vidiya has languished alongside many of India's fighting techniques as a forgotten art form.

But one man is determined to bring it back from the brink of extinction. Nidar Singh Nihang is a 41-year-old "gurdev" (master) who has spent 20 years studying the secrets of shastar vidiya in order to pass it on to younger generations. It is a journey that has taken him from being a food packer in a Wolverhampton factory to one of the world's top authorities on ancient Indian fighting styles. Now he is looking for young apprentices willing to devote their life to learning the secrets of an art that he believes risks dying out altogether.

"Most people who practise Indian martial arts nowadays are simply learning the toned down exhibition styles that were allowed by the British," he says. "Unless we start teaching the original fighting styles they will be extinct within 50 years. I want to find two or three sensible, intelligent and tolerant young apprentices who can pass on what I've learned to future generations."

That a British citizen is trying to resurrect shastar vidiya by teaching it to young British Asians is more than a little ironic given the history.

Although shastar vidiya was widely practised across the subcontinent long before the emergence of Sikhism in the mid-16th century, it was the Sikh tribes of the Punjab that came to be the true masters of this particular fighting style.

Surrounded by hostile Hindu and Muslim empires who were opposed to the emergence of a new religion in their midst, the Sikhs quickly turned themselves into an efficient and fearsome warrior race. The most formidable group among them were the Akali Nihangs, a blue-turbaned sect of fighters who became the crack troops and cultural guardians of the Sikh faith. As Britain's modernised colonial armies expanded across the Indian subcontinent, some of the stiffest opposition they faced came from the Sikhs who fought two bloody but ultimately disastrous wars in the 1840s that led to the fall of the Sikh empire and allowed Britain to expand its Indian territories as far as the Khyber Pass.

Astonished by the ferocity and bravery of the Akali Nihangs, the Punjab's new colonial administrators swiftly banned the group and forbade Sikhs from wearing the blue turbans that defined the Akalis.

Sikh warriors were quickly given rifles and drafted into Britain's armies. The practice of shastar vidiya went underground and was nearly forgotten. In its place, the British allowed and encouraged "gatka", a ceremonial and toned-down version of shastar vidiya which is widely displayed during Sikh festivals today. Now Singh Nihang hopes he can make shastar vidiya as widely practised as gatka.

In one corner of the gymnasium where Singh Nihang is teaching his class an array of weaponry has been ceremonially laid out on the floor. Students begin learning how to fight with relatively harmless wooden sticks but those who show a particular finesse and dedication are allowed to practice with the kind of swords that once made the Sikh armies so powerful.

"This is one of my favourite weapons," says Singh Nihang as he picks up an undulating, serrated sword that looks uncannily like a snake. "It's very difficult to learn how to use, but it's also very difficult to fight against. The serrated edge confuses your opponent and allows you to sever muscle tendons in battle. It's a very nasty weapon.

"The key skill shastar vidiya teaches is deception. It's the blows your enemy never sees coming that do the real damage." For followers of shastar vidiya, the martial art is more than just a fighting style. Acolytes are expected to live up to strict religious principles and honour martial codes. The roots of shastar vidiya are not known but there is evidence to suggest that India's martial arts predate those from China and Japan.

Indian monks were the first to export Buddha's new teachings across the Himalayas and according to Chinese legend it was an Indian monk called Bodhidharma who first introduced martial arts to the famous Shaolin Temple in AD 600. Bodhidharma himself is thought to have come from south India where another indigenous fighting style known as Kalaripayattu has also undergone a recent renaissance.

One of Singh Nihang's top students is Iqbal Singh, a 39-year-old businessman from Slough who had spent many years looking for a master who might be able to reconnect him with his culture's fighting past.

"When I was younger I used to head down to the British Library where there are loads of manuscripts and books from the Sikh empire," he recalls. "I kept dreaming about travelling back to the Punjab to find a master and I always imagined he'd be some grizzled old man living in a hut somewhere. Instead, the person who seemed to know the most about these fighting styles was a factory worker from Wolverhampton."

In fact, it was thanks to the British Raj's obsessive bureaucracy that people like Singh Nihang have been able to reacquaint themselves with their ancestors' past. The physical technique of fighting was taught to him in the Punjab by a septuagenarian gurdev when he was a teenager but the vast records in the British Library and the V&A Museum enabled him to compile a history of the Akali Nihang warriors in a book called In The Master's Presence.

"That's something that has always amused me," laughs Singh Nihang. "It was British colonialism that nearly destroyed shastar vidiya, but it is also colonialism's obsession with book keeping that may save it."

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Comments

Get a life
[info]mackname wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 12:41 am (UTC)


Grow up!

Re: Get a life
[info]nightside242 wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 11:55 am (UTC)
Yes, how stupid of someone to keep themselves fit and healthy. Death to all sports, hobbies and pastimes.
Commendations
[info]jpphoopha wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 03:16 am (UTC)
Nidar Singh Nihang is to be commended for the effort and dedication he has obviously expended in resurrecting this art form.
Fascinating article
[info]mannygoldstein wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 03:41 am (UTC)
Nidar Singh Nihang is helping preserve a vital part of Indian and Sikh history and culture. The respect, disciplne and values that his students will obtain are very valuable. His own life sets an example, how he has moved from factory work to cultural historian and skilled practitioner of a martial art.
Re: Fascinating article
[info]arthur_ide wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 11:50 pm (UTC)
Why would anyone preserve something as vile and nefarious as shastar vidiya. It shows the worse elements of Indian history and culture. It does not bring nor engender respect nor promote values--it is a blood-trophy of villians.
Sing is King and Indian poison that cannot kill,
[info]famulla wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 04:16 am (UTC)
The TATA, the RANBUXSY, the Bolliwood, and many are in the same line, copycats. Who give you the most pirated stuff, music, medicines, tins, steel, shoes, poison that cannot kill, all mixed up, there is no Bureau of Standard in India.
The martial art that the men are practising is shastar vidiya ? a now little-known fighting technique from north India that virtually died out when the British Raj banned it after the final, bloody defeat of the Sikh empire in the mid-19th century. Shish also have the movies like Sing is King that has topped the chart. All musical. I am amazed at the Bhangras (the Punjabi dances) that was the tradition now changed with the martial arts.
I thank you
Firozali A. Mulla
EASILY DEFEATED
[info]georgesign wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 06:37 am (UTC)
In my youth I did a lot of Judo. The best way to defeat any form of marshal art is a hand gun or sawn- off shot gun. Not a great deal of training necessary.
Re: EASILY DEFEATED
[info]m_leslie wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 11:24 am (UTC)
With that sort of logic, I can see what made you give up judo...
[info]doug_piranha wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 06:57 am (UTC)
.......and I am abosutley sure all the "devotees" will be following all the religious aspects too
- like all the kung fu numpties who think shaolin comes with rice !

Your fawning admiration leaves me speechless - "elegant curved blade " - good grief !

If this was a group of white youths - it would be condemned as dangerous movement.
no talk of sef defence - but of feared warrior races -
Great ! What a leap forward for mankind
Don't Panic, It's only a martial art
[info]m_leslie wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 10:10 am (UTC)
I think it worth pointing out that this chap requires his students to be "sensible, intelligent and tolerant young apprentices..."

It's obviously a heritage thing, about preserving an almost lost tradition of swordsmanship. For anyone to liken a martial arts club to a 'dangerous movement' is frankly ridiculous and borders on scaremongering in my view. But in the spirit of tolerance mentioned within the article by the art's teacher, I suppose you're entitled to it.

I for one am fascinated to see another classical form of knowledge, from the land that brought us buddhism, yoga and ayurveda medicine amongst other things.
Re: Don't Panic, It's only a martial art - [info]themightychew - Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 11:53 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]vgnwtch - Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 03:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Respect
[info]haiku_690 wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 07:39 am (UTC)
This was an inspiring story. I was also inspired by his rising from factory woorker to expert in his field. THis shows great determination and courage. It helps me believe i can achieve my own goals. Thank you.

oh quote: Grow up!
Mackname it's idiots like you that need to grow up, how is performing martial arts not grown up?

Fascinating martial art - great article
[info]hillman99 wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 09:18 am (UTC)
a great article about a little-known martial art even within the Sikh community and really encouraging to see a professional, dedicated and thorough approach to preserving a rapidly vanishing tradition.
+1.
[info]abs1978 wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 11:51 am (UTC)
Very interesting reading!
Bravo! Keep up the good work
[info]grfik wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 09:39 am (UTC)
Languages and cultures are being lost everyday, I am glad to hear that there is some effort to preserve one. Understanding conflict, makes you aware of the danger to be avoided, and looking at the world through the a different point of view rasises questions which lead to a more rounded perspective and better insight to where we live in today. Bravo! Keep up the good work
Preserving history and good manners
[info]james_day wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 11:00 am (UTC)
As a keen martial artist myself i can tell you that it's not about beating people up but very much about self control, humility, and respect for others.

Nidar Singh, clearly articulate, intelligent, and well educated in his art, appears to be promoting these attributes as much as the techniques themselves.

I wish him every success in his endeavour to preserve this intriguing piece of history.
[info]algarda wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 12:36 pm (UTC)
The itinerant Indian monks had to learn martial arts to defend themselves, if attacked, say by robbers on the way. So it stands to reason that many of the martial arts owe their origins to ancient India.

It however came as news to me that the Sikhs were "Surrounded by hostile Hindu and Muslim empires who were opposed to the emergence of a new religion in their midst". I thought there was only one empire there at the time and that was the Muslim Mughal empire. And it was utterly hostile to the Sikhs. I had also read all along that the Sikh Khalsa warriors were raised from the eldest sons of Hindu families, by the last Guru Govind Singhji, to protect the Panth and the Hindus from Muslim atrocities..Did I get my history wrong?
yes you got it wrong
[info]pete1975 wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 01:27 pm (UTC)
Majority of Guru GOBIND singh's battles were against HINDU kings, who were anxious and feared his ever growing power and his intolerance to many 'bhraminic' practices!! It's a myth he faught for HINDUISM, he faught out of neccessity and the truth!!
The following are battles fought by the tenth master, Guru Gobind Singh

The Battle of Bhangani ( 1689): Won against Raja Bhim Chand of Bilaspur.
The Battle of Nadaun (1690) : Won against Mughals, in response to a request from Raja Bhim Chand.
The Battle of Anandpur Sahib (1700): Against combined forces of the Mughals and the Hill Rajas. After a prolonged Siege, the Guru left Anandgarh Fort.
The Battle of Chamkaur (1703): Forty Sikhs with the Guru fought valiantly against thousands of the enemies, and became martyrs. The two elder sons of the Guru also died fighting in this battle.
The Battle of Muktsar (1703): Forty Sikhs, who had abandoned Anandpur Sahib, returned to the Guru and sacrificed their lives while fighting in his defence against the Mugbal Army. 11iey became martyrs and the Guru blessed them as muktas
Hindu is used like Brit, Yankee, Aussie - [info]grfik - Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 04:28 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Hindu is used like Brit, Yankee, Aussie - [info]jnsb - Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 05:22 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Hindu is used like Brit, Yankee, Aussie - [info]pete1975 - Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 08:23 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Hindu is used like Brit, Yankee, Aussie - [info]jnsb - Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 09:15 pm (UTC) Expand
Sikhs were not originally Indian - [info]arthur_ide - Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 12:03 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Sikhs were not originally Indian - [info]pete1975 - Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 08:13 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Sikhs were not originally Indian - [info]arthur_ide - Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 01:29 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Sikhs were not originally Indian - [info]pete1975 - Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 02:52 pm (UTC) Expand
Such irony
[info]martin1963 wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 07:45 pm (UTC)
What a great tale of historical pride in one`s people and traditions, How ironic that it is here in modern Britain where this is happening, where it seems that pride in one`s history is such a taboo.
Ironic too is the fact that, Sikhs in the Royal Air Force depending on how devout the individual, (I worked alongside many during my service), could wear a blue turban, which although a different shade (RAF blue) would probably make the former colonial administrators (Raj) turn in their graves.
Well done to you Nidar Singh Nihang, keep it up while you can, your people succumbed, not to the citizens of this country, but to the powerful of this country once before, don`t allow it to happen again (as most of this country seem to be allowing). Be proud, and remember, if it were not for history you would not be who you are now.
The final irony is that I am saying this to a Sikh, one of the proudest people in the world. Who despite having been oppressed, gave Stirling service to this island, serving King and Queen and country through wartime and peace (much like the Gurkha`s).
We all should take a leaf out of this man`s book and remember our past. Sometimes proud, sometimes humble, sometimes in shame, but we should remember.
Wow!
[info]brainboxing wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 07:55 pm (UTC)
This is truely amazing. All the way from ancient India to little Britain. India always seems to amaze me with its many amazing secrets like shastar vidiya. I had previously heard about and even read about the ancient Indian martial arts taught by the Brahmin teachers, the preservers of the martial art along with all the other Indian disciplines such as Ayurveda (medicine) to Raaga (classical music).

Now Britain has one of India's best kept secret thanks to Nidar Singh Nihang.
Re: Wow!
[info]kaos_theory99 wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 08:26 pm (UTC)
This is nothing, in Wales we hurl sheep at each other. Now that *is* a martial art, do you realise how long it takes to get enough sheep for a fair-sized contest?
Re: Wow! - [info]konntou - Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 08:39 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow! - [info]konntou - Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 08:46 am (UTC) Expand
All religions are conceived in hatred
[info]arthur_ide wrote:
Tuesday, 5 May 2009 at 11:48 pm (UTC)
and born in fear or all new religions, as Cronus was when Zeus attempted (successfully) to overthrow him. Both Hinduism and Islam have been creations from fiction older than either, and their testaments plagarized from far older works--with their deities changing gender as easily as most people will change their apparel. Thus the Arabian moon goddess Al-ilah and his/her daughters al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. Allah had three daughters: Al Uzzah (Venus) most revered of all and pleased with human sacrifice; Manah, the goddess of destiny, and Al Lat, the goddess of vegetable life. But so, too, did Hinduism Brahama and Shiva--switching genders at will as Hindus worship many different Goddesses they invariably have faith upon a single supreme invisible deity called Bhagaban (some call it Ischhaar) whom they call Nirakar. Moon-worship was equally popular in various forms (Apollo and Diana the twin brother and sister, representing the sun and moon). In the Vedic religion of India the moon god was Soma, the lord of the planets and the moon was male divinity in ancient India. The moon was also a male divinity in ancient Semitic religion, and the Arabic word for the moon (qamar) is of the masculine gender, on the other hand, the Arabic word for sun (shams) is feminine gender. The pagan Arabs evidently looked upon the sun as a goddess and the moon as a God. So from all this comes the mythology of Sikhism, as bloodthirsty as the rest--just like Christianity (Sarah Palin's Prayer Warriors) and Judaism (the female soldiers of Israel) is today. Sikhism's faith is the worship of the sword and the carnage it brings: 'A Guru's Sikh should respect and worship the sword. The Master himself worshipped it.' ('Rehitnameh', Piara Singh Padam, Pa. 87). Sikhism and shastar vidiya is neither a sport nor an art--it is a religious bloodletting practiced by skilled religious assassins.

Civilization destroys itself by tolerating religion--all and any. Religion is the greatest curse that has infected this planet. Not until it is totally eradicated will there be a slim chance for peace.
Re: All religions are conceived in hatred
[info]pete1975 wrote:
Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 08:06 am (UTC)
Not quite true, to cut a long story short and using the quote you used

'A Guru's Sikh should RESPECT and worship the sword. The Master himself worshipped it.' ('Rehitnameh', Piara Singh Padam, Pa. 87).

RESPECT is the key word, Guru Gobind SIngh, wrote many passages on war and weaponry, inparticular one's self control, those passages you seem to have avoided!!

Bloodthirsty??????? You obviously know little about Sikh History, there's a distinct difference between fighting for survival, just causes and total unadultered violence...............................

Shastar Vidhya is not new in the punjab, many Nihang Jatha's have been practicing it for many a time. If you can show me, where in history that Shastar Vidhya has been used as a bloodletting practice by assasins????? Sikhs have had several acts of genocide against them, including those in recent history, and as far as I know, these assasins where either asleep or in training!!!
Re: All religions are conceived in hatred - [info]arthur_ide - Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 01:43 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: All religions are conceived in hatred - [info]pete1975 - Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 02:29 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: All religions are conceived in hatred - [info]arthur_ide - Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 06:51 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info] - Monday, 11 May 2009 at 01:42 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: All religions are conceived in hatred - [info]arthur_ide - Tuesday, 12 May 2009 at 10:22 pm (UTC) Expand
World's original?
[info]declanchellar wrote:
Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 10:32 am (UTC)
I think it's great that the Sikhs are reviving this part of their culture and I wish the very best to Nidar Singh Nihang.

However, Chinese legend does not say that Bodhidharma brought fighting styles to the Shaolin temple, but that he taught the monks breathing and meditation techniques. Do you really think India's martial arts predate those of any other culture? Do you have some hitherto unknown archaeological evidence to show that Shastar Vidiya was the world's original martial art? How were other cultures training their armies before the Indians came along?

What do you think the ancient Chinese used, or the Hittites for that matter, during warfare? Harsh language?
Re: World's original?
[info]jnsb wrote:
Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 09:26 pm (UTC)
I have heard in many places that bodhidharma did teach the monks fighting techniques, also that these techniques were based on animal styles, many of which are contained in this vidiya. Up until relatively recently, wandering sadhus and yogis, were known for being skilled in shastar vidiya. But that aside, it is not being said that no1 else could fight or use a sword or a weapon before this art, not at all. What they are saying, there are martial arts popular today, which have originated in the east, and which do have many similarities, in styles, principles, spiritual/energy use/applications, and that these common aspects can be traced to this art. And yes there are many references, in anciet indian texts, which support this, which nihang nidhar singh would be happy to discuss if asked. you can also check out www.shastarvidiya.org for more history of the art and its roots. We forget that there going back past a 4 or 5 thousand years before christ, history becomes extremely vague, and there is a big gap between the caveman days up until written accounts and evidence starts, so there is much we dnt know about this grey area of "pre-history".
Re: World's original? - [info]declanchellar - Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 10:22 pm (UTC) Expand
shastar vidiya
[info]harnek wrote:
Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 10:36 am (UTC)
Great Article. Before people comment. It would benefit to have some of knowledge of Sikh History. The religious foundations and principles are about acceptance and tolerance. The Sikhs only took up arms to defend the human rights and religious beliefs of people of all faiths during Mughal tenures in India. Sikhs should not be viewed as violent or aggressive in nature but rather as defenders of the people and also almost unique in their ability to fight and defend beyond the norm. The Battle of Saragarhi is one such event which would support my views. Also in indepth look at the Anglo Sikh Wars and the contribution of the hand to hand fighting skills of the Sikhs for the British Empire during World War I and II are unparalled. There is nothing dangerous about people learning and displaying the skills of Shastar Vidiya in a responsible manner akin to those individuals who take part in other martial arts such as Karate or Jujitsu. Any thing can be dangerous in the wrong hands. A brick could crack a skull in a street fight but could also lay the foundations for a beautiful cathederal. Open your minds before you open your mouths.
Re: shastar vidiya
[info]jnsb wrote:
Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 09:32 pm (UTC)
well said.
shastar vidiya
[info]harvinder wrote:
Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 11:18 am (UTC)
A small amount of knowledge can be very dangerous. Reading some of the comments to this article, it is clear that people are shooting from the hip with little or no knowledge of the subject matter. The sacrifices made by Sikh people in the interest of people of ALL faiths not only in India but throughout the world are second to none. Sikhism preaches equality to all and tolerance of your fellow man. It is essentially a peace loving faith, and it was only the tyranny of the Mughals who killed anyone who didn't convert to their faith that compelled the Sikh Gurus to take up arms in order to defend the oppressed masses. To resist a large army needs discipline and training, which is where the Sikh martial arts come from. Today, there is no need to use these arts and the display is purely meant to uphold the tradition and demonstrate an art that would otherwise be lost. It is no different to any other martial art form taught throughout the world.
Religion of hate: The Darker Side ?
[info]arthur009 wrote:
Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 02:24 pm (UTC)
The medieval Islamic persecution that gave rise and formation to the Khalsa is out of date in a modern Britain or Europe and gives an image that the smallest world faith is based on weapons and inflicting wounds. There is a dark side not mentioned here; and that it is the inevitability to attract some Sikh youth with an already fanatical mindset who sometimes like to believe their religion is 'bigger' than yours ! In a society where knives and other weapons make daily worrying headlines, is there a need for this?

What once began as a religion of pacifism, respect and compromise between Hindus and Muslims is now today seen as a religion of knives, demonstrations outside theaters (Behzti) and political extremism ie nothing in common with its founder. Its no surprise that religious terrorism is not just confined to one religion subject to misinterpretation but any number can fall prey to extremist ideologies.
Religion of hate ? The Darker side
[info]arthur009 wrote:
Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 02:25 pm (UTC)
The medieval Islamic persecution that gave rise and formation to the Khalsa is out of date in a modern Britain or Europe and gives an image that the smallest world faith is based on weapons and inflicting wounds. There is a dark side not mentioned here; and that it is the inevitability to attract some Sikh youth with an already fanatical mindset who sometimes like to believe their religion is 'bigger' than yours ! In a society where knives and other weapons make daily worrying headlines, is there a need for this?

What once began as a religion of pacifism, respect and compromise between Hindus and Muslims is now today seen as a religion of knives, demonstrations outside theaters (Behzti) and political extremism ie nothing in common with its founder. Its no surprise that religious terrorism is not just confined to one religion subject to misinterpretation but any number can fall prey to extremist ideologies.
Re: Religion of hate ? The Darker side
[info]pete1975 wrote:
Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 03:03 pm (UTC)
Really Arthur, I respect your opinion, and fair enough there are a few idiots amongst any set of people that give a bad name to the majority!!

But the religion based on knife isn't true, the fact is that Sikhs very rarely use there 'ceremonial' dagger other then for ceremonies, it's blunt, how many attacks have you read about Sikhs using there knifes or there ancient martial arts???

All institutions whether they be religious or non religious can be maligned, we've seen unjustified wars that have nothing to do with religion, mankind has a habit of self destructing itself, we are only just human!!!
Re: Religion of hate ? The Darker side - [info]arthur009 - Tuesday, 19 May 2009 at 10:51 pm (UTC) Expand
Raj Redux
[info]hjaffe wrote:
Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 04:26 pm (UTC)
With the ancient martial arts of shastar vidiya making a comeback in the UK, why not teach it to the thousands of football hooligans (if we can pull them away from their beer), then employ it as a tool to reaffirm England's greatness?

For starters, there are two short, very bad guys on the continent; they are called Sarko and Berlu; they are EU freaks, megalomaniacs and borderline fascists, and they have improbable, beautiful wives. Moreover they represent countries that did some funny twists and turns during World War 2.

With the help of the formerly colonized martial Sikhs, I happen to think that the UK is about ready to kick some major league continental arse on the road to establishing what is rightfully theirs.



HUMAN NATURE OR RELIGION
[info]khaliban wrote:
Wednesday, 6 May 2009 at 04:31 pm (UTC)
With all due respect Arthur, your learned views are tempered with a secular distrust of all religions and such generalising is fraught with fallacy. If, as you say,some Sikhs are disposed to extremism then it follows that they will find eventually a 'vehicle' to express their tendencies.It is not Khalsa per se that breeds such behaviour but human mis-interpretation that then manifests.

The Order of the Khalsa was created to fight injustice when all other peaceful means had been exhausted. Sikhs are duty bound to exhaust all other peaceful means before utilising violence and then it is only sanctioned IN SELF DEFENCE.

The Khalsa bravely fought oppression and succeeded after much martyrdom. The Khalsa should now focus fighting modern day INJUSTICES. It is injustice that some people in the world do not have basic food, medical aid, opportunity to learn....the list go on. And the Khalsa has a role to play with peaceful organisations such as Amnesty and Red Cross.

If harnessed the Khalsa principles can serve mankind and not be an insular fighting tribe that Arthur alludes to.
Re: HUMAN NATURE OR RELIGION
[info]arthur009 wrote:
Wednesday, 20 May 2009 at 09:35 pm (UTC)
The Red Cross or the Red Crescent are genuine humanitarian organizations, if the intention is to merely project an image of religious chauvinism then there's no point in emulating these orgs. The RC do humanitarian primarily because they are humanitarian and not a publicity stunt
Dilemma of the Gita
[info]habook wrote:
Thursday, 7 May 2009 at 11:22 am (UTC)
An enlightened martial artist would not be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Fighting with weapons is just to distract over sexed young men until they gain the maturity to absorb hidden teachings. Its a training discipline as much as the early mind training methods of Vipassana like watching the breath.

The comments after the article seem to have got lost amongst a dispute as to whether Sikhism historically at heart is violent or not. All humans have the capacity for violence embedded in their stone age brains. This why Buddhism teaches that all men are wild and need to be tamed.

Any Guru in the Vedic tradition would have been aware of the formal systems of Indian philosophy, (in which Buddha was originally trained, for example), and would be familiar with the Bhagavad Gita. Here the story cunning sets up the leaders of rival families and their warriors and supporters for an inevitable battle such that, do nothing and friends family and foes will die, or join battle in which family friends and foe will also die, but in addition by choice violate the principle of non violence. Krishna intervenes and teaches and that all are embedded in life as it is and that the only honorable course is to perform action, do one's duty as prince or pauper, but 'established in being'. This means being in an enlightened state, awake in the moment, as a full participant in life as it unfolds, which includes all human actions. This is as difficult a concept for retrospective Christian historians, as peaceful modern Sikhs, who equate saintliness with non-violence in all circumstances, and difficult for religious followers of faiths that also teach compassion and non violence who have forgotten about meditation and the revelation of the subtle. Fortunately for aggressive Christian societies the non saintly may engage in righteous conflict and just wars, so the schizophrenia of espousing peace and practicing war may be carried on with a clear conscience! Likewise religions of peace always allow the get out of self defense in dire emergencies. Over the centuries all the branches of Vedic culture have diverged and the teachings of the key Sikh Gurus have emphasized some aspects and relapsed others such that modern 'Hinduism' and Sikhism and Buddhism all seem now to be separate; but the roots to the Sanskritic texts are there if you look. It is interesting that non intellectual/religious disciplines like dance and music and martial arts have retained vestiges of links to common roots by other means.

As to which system of martial arts was the earliest, that will depend on which society flowered first. Caveman A hitting Caveman B over the head is not a 'martial art' as discussed above, just brutish street fighting; a martial art is an integrated and subtle system that also contains spiritual development. Some scholars argue from celestial observations in ancient texts that the Vedic civilizations origins date from 60,000 years ago, so the claim that they were first may be true, but in any event martial arts have always flowered where paradoxically meditation flourished. This is because the subtlety of movement and mind required to excel at any physical activity, from sex to sword fighting, derives from uncovering subtle levels of consciousness.

Dilemma of the Gita
[info]famulla wrote:
Monday, 11 May 2009 at 06:48 am (UTC)
In Hinduism there is not exactly a text that is a must for the follower. Even without reading the sacred texts one can get to the Eternal Bliss and also just reading the holy scriptures alone will not lead to the great liberation, as per Hinduism !
But is there a common scripture that is considered holy by all sections of Hindus ? Yes, the vedas(1) are the common holy scripture for the Hindus. In fact they gave Hinduism the name vaidika dharma, one of its old names. What are vedas ? vedas, refer to the knowledge. That is the knowledge heard by the sages in their spiritual domain and passed across as it is as mantras. mantras(2) are the words of super-power, that produce grand effects when chanted. As compared stotras are the scriptures that came out of the thoughts of human beings that hail God. However it cannot be interpreted that the human made stotras are not glorious. In fact the sages associated with the vedas are also attributed to have composed many stotras.
vedas have four parts - samhita, brAhmaNa, Aranyaka & upanishat. The samhitas are the core part of vedas. They are full of mantras. brAhmaNas help in the application /interpretation of the vedic samhitas. Aranyakas and upanishats are the philosophical part. upanishats cover a spectrum of analysis of the God and relation to It for the soul. They are the benchmarks (prasthAna) in Hindu philosophy. So the philosophers when establishing their concepts proclaim that their theory stands good with the benchmark upanishats. The essence of the upanishats is brought out in brahmasUtra composed by vedavyAsa, the one who organized the vedas. The four categories of vedas are Rig, yajus, sAma, atharva. vedas are the voice of the Divine preserved as it was heard by the sages and hence they are called shRuti. There is another set of scripture are the things remembered from the voice of God. They are called smRuti.
Ramayanam and Mahabharatham are not holy books. They are, of course, very good literature and can speak a lot about hinduism and indian culture. In fact there are no specific holy books for hinduism, since hinduism is not a religion.
Not Just One , But Several
1. Mahabharat (Mahabharatha)
2.Ramayana (Ramayanam)
3.Githa (Bhagavad Githa)
I thank you
Firozali A.Mulla
i think it's beautiful
[info]hapi72 wrote:
Tuesday, 11 August 2009 at 04:38 am (UTC)
Im a martial arts lover, naturalist, reader/collector of martial philosophy. I was actually just looking around for possible uniforms of dravidian martial arts. hopefully he has a myspace...mine is www.myspace.com/three0234.

peace


omar

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