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Democracy hangs by a thread in Honduras

The right-wing coup d'état is faltering, but its supporters have powerful friends in Washington. Hugh O'Shaughnessy reports

Supporters of Manuel Zelaya blocked roads in Tegucigalpa yesterday as the ousted president vowed to return to Honduras and rejected the possibility of a power-sharing deal with his opponents

RODRIGO ABD / AP

Supporters of Manuel Zelaya blocked roads in Tegucigalpa yesterday as the ousted president vowed to return to Honduras and rejected the possibility of a power-sharing deal with his opponents

The international group of right-wingers who staged the coup d'état against the democratic government of Honduras on 28 June are watching their plot fast unravel.

There is stiffening international opposition to their protégé, Roberto Micheletti, who, in his capacity as President of Congress, ordered President Manuel Zelaya to be expelled from the country by plane in his pyjamas.

Mr Zelaya gave negotiators meeting in Costa Rica until midnight yesterday to restore him to office, threatening to secretly return to Honduras and attempt to retake power on his own if no agreement is reached. At a news conference at the Honduran embassy in Nicaragua, he said: "I am going back to Honduras, but I am not going to give you the date, hour or place, or say if I'm going to enter through land, air or sea." But indications last night suggested the interim government would call his bluff.

As the Acting President's support shrinks at home, the plotters are lobbying to have Mr Micheletti shored up from abroad by means of a declaration of legitimacy from the US Congress. That scheme is not prospering. Enrique Ortez Colindres, the supremely undiplomatic octogenarian appointed foreign minister by Mr Micheletti, has had to resign, but not before he called Barack Obama "a negrito who knows nothing about anything", on Honduran television.

For some of the plotters it is their second attempt to overthrow an elected reformist government in Latin America: the group includes prominent figures involved in the 2002 ousting of President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, who was kidnapped for 48 hours and sent to a Caribbean island before being restored to office after widespread popular protest.

The temporary toppling of Mr Chavez was welcomed by the Bush administration, the Blair government and the International Monetary Fund. This weekend, the US seems destined for a replay of 2002's Operation Chaotic Coup. Amid a stream of contradictory messages it is clear that last month's putsch against Mr Zelaya was brewed up in Washington by a group of extreme conservatives from Venezuela, Honduras and the US. They appear to have hidden their plans from the White House, but hoped eventually to bounce President Obama into backing them and supporting the "interim president". They are making much of Mr Zelaya's alliance with Mr Chavez, whose sense of nationalism challenges US hegemony.

Financial backing for the coup is identified by some as coming from the pharmaceutical industry, which fears Mr Zelaya's plans to produce generic drugs and distribute them cheaply to the impoverished majority in Honduras, who lack all but the most primitive health facilities. Others point to big companies in the telecommunications industry opposed to Hondutel, Honduras's state-owned provider. Parallels are being made with ITT, the US telecommunications company that offered the Nixon government funds for the successful overthrow of President Salvador Allende of Chile in 1973.

A key figure is Robert Carmona-Borjas, a Venezuelan active against Mr Chavez in 2002, who later fled to the US. He runs the Washington-based Arcadia, which calls itself "an innovative 'next generation' anti-corruption organisation". Its website carries three video clips alleging, without evidence, that Mr Zelaya, his associates and Hondutel are deeply corrupt. Behind Arcadia are the US-funded National Endowment for Democracy (NED) and the International Republican Institute (IRI), the well-funded overseas arm of the Republican Party. Currently active among the Uighurs of western China, the NED has this year funnelled $1.2m (£740,000) for "political activity" in Honduras.

The focus of attention in the campaign against Mr Zelaya is now on the office of Senator John McCain, the defeated US presidential candidate, who is chairman of the IRI, takes an interest in telecoms affairs in the US Congress and has benefited handsomely from campaign contributions from US telecoms companies – which are said to have funded the abortive 2002 coup against Mr Chavez.

Mr McCain's former legislative counsel, John Timmons, arranged the visit of Micheletti supporters to Washington on 7 July where they met journalists at the National Press Club "to clarify any misunderstandings about Honduras's constitutional process and ... the preservation of the country's democratic institutions".

Meanwhile, within the US administration, difficulties in co-ordination have emerged between the State Department and the White House, with the Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, issuing a low-key condemnation of the coup which was quickly superseded by stronger words from Mr Obama. The President called for Mr Zelaya's reinstatement, which Mrs Clinton had failed to demand.

The conservative-minded Mrs Clinton retains John Negroponte, an ambassador to Honduras under Ronald Reagan, as an adviser. He also represented George W Bush at the UN and in Baghdad. Democratic Senator Chris Dodd attacked Mr Negroponte in 2001 for drawing a veil over atrocities committed in Tegucigalpa, the Honduran capital, by military forces trained by the US. Mr Dodd claimed that the forces had been "linked to death squad activities such as killings, disappearances and other human rights abuses".

During his time in Tegucigalpa, Mr Negroponte directed funds to the US-supported Contra terrorists seeking to overthrow the government of Nicaragua. He assured them of arms and supplies from the Palmerola airstrip, the main US base in Central America. As President Rafael Correa of Ecuador is in the final stages of closing the US base in his country, Mr Negroponte is conscious of what the US could lose if a Zelaya government banned its presence at Palmerola. For their part, Hondurans have noted that when Mr Zelaya tried to return on 6 July, and his plane was refused permission to land at Tegucigalpa airport, no room was found at Palmerola.

Since last July, the US ambassador in Tegucigalpa has been the Cuban-born Hugo Llorens. He was the principal National Security adviser to Mr Bush on Venezuela at the time of the failed 2002 coup, when he was working with two other well-known State Department hardliners, Otto Reich and Elliot Abrams.

Mr Reich, a former US ambassador to Venezuela, advised Mr McCain in his presidential bid and previously worked for AT&T, the US telecoms giant. As he goes into battle against Mr Zelaya, the website of his business consultancy, Otto Reich Associates, quotes Mr Reagan: "You understand the importance of fostering democracy and economic development among our closest neighbours."

Mr Abrams was also deep in the business of supplying the Contra terrorists. He tried to sabotage the Central American peace plans proposed by Oscar Arias, then the Costa Rican President, who later received a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts. In 1991 Mr Abrams, a neoconservative passionately supportive of Ehud Olmert and other leading Israeli hawks, was convicted of hiding information from the US Congress investigation of the Iran-Contra affair. The New York Times reported in 2006 that he had strong ties to then vice-president Dick Cheney.

In a divided Washington, Mrs Clinton seems in recent days to have regained some advantage. Now Washington's strategy is to minimise the role of the pan-continent Organisation of American States which, under the leadership of the independent-minded Chilean José Miguel Insulza, took a strong line against the "interim president".

Washington is now relying on Mr Arias, a firm friend in Central America, to soften the line against Mr Micheletti. He is trying to "mediate" between Mr Zelaya and the coup's appointee by putting them on the same footing. On Friday he called for a "government of national reconciliation" with ministers from both camps, a proposal which it appeared Mr Zelaya would countenance but that the interim government would not.

Yet the outcome of the crisis is not likely to be worked out in huddles of foreign politicians outside Honduras, but on the streets of Tegucigalpa and in the country's forests – perhaps even this weekend.

Honduran voters have traditionally – and ineffectually – been organised into two parties, the Nationals and the Liberals, whose politics are almost indistinguishable. But repudiation of Mr Micheletti is widespread. The principal roads have been blocked by Mr Zelaya's supporters brandishing banners calling for his return.

Mr Micheletti has been forced to re-establish the curfew he imposed just after the putsch. He has even offered to resign in order to prevent civil war – provided Mr Zelaya does not return. Another worrying development for Mr Micheletti came on Friday, when the armed forces delivered a solemn and urgent message that they were totally united in favour of democracy. In the world of Latin American politics, this is a sign that they are deeply divided.

At the festivities on Friday commemorating the 200th anniversary of Bolivia breaking free from Spanish rule, Mr Chavez joined Bolivia's President, Evo Morales, President Fernando Lugo of Paraguay and President Correa in a declaration of support for the re-establishment of democracy in Honduras. All four leaders are strong supporters of demands for better treatment of Latin America's indigenous peoples.

Perhaps that's what is really worrying the plotters of Tegucigalpa.

Hugh O'Shaughnessy's study of President Fernando Lugo, 'The Priest of Paraguay', will be published next month by Zed Books

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Chaves worried about indigenous people?
[info]maria_honduras wrote:
Saturday, 18 July 2009 at 11:41 pm (UTC)
Chavez,Noriega, Morales, Lugo, and Correa worried about indigenous people??? I'm pretty sure you have never visited any Latin American country or know any of the events that preceded Mel's ousting. The last thing that leaders in Latin American are interested on are indigenous people. The only thing they are interested is shoving as much money as they can into their pockets. Wonder why they want to stay in power so long? Please do a little research before writing, you're affecting many people who only want peace!
Re: Chaves worried about indigenous people?
[info]chanch5 wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 10:54 am (UTC)
Albeit that there is no shortage of Latin American leaders who fit your description, and whose concern lies in protecting the interests of the rich minority of which they are a part, the ones you mention are of the precious exceptions (although Noriega...which Noriega? The author doesn't mention any Noriegas).

For your information, the guy has been researching politics in the continent for decades and evidently has a clearer understanding of it than maybe you do. Irrespective of where you were born.

I note your style is typical in that it insinuates a vague criticism without saying anything concrete at all.



Re: Chaves worried about indigenous people? - [info]maria_honduras - Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 03:25 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Chaves worried about indigenous people? - [info]chanch5 - Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 05:06 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Chaves worried about indigenous people? - [info]maria_honduras - Monday, 20 July 2009 at 05:44 am (UTC) Expand
THIS ARTICLE IS ABSURD
[info]a_bush wrote:
Saturday, 18 July 2009 at 11:47 pm (UTC)
It is obvious that you know nothing about the truth of what is going on in Honduras. There was No Coup D'etat, If there was one a military leader would have emerged and Honduras would have sunk into military dictatorship.There also would have been an annulment of the state of law. The Constitution was not undermined and all the actions taken were done under the mark of the law ( I invite you to read our constitution instead of being ignorant). All of the judicial and legislative institutions were kept intact. How can an entire Supreme Court, National Congress, and Tribunals be wrong, and one man be right.Also President Michelletti did not order his exile, the tribunals of justice ordered that to happen, President Michelletti had no say in it. Also, all of the allegations against Mr.Zelaya are very true and as a Honduran I can attest to them firsthand. He is corrupt and was being fueled by Chavez's Petro dollars. Countless amounts of narcotics were being flown to Honduras ( his son managed those transactions), and they have been properly identified as being derived from Venezuela. In regards to Hondutel, they were committing fraud, and the person in charge was chosen by Zelaya.Mr. Zelaya also had over 100 bank accounts, and was involved in Money Laundering.We do not want corruption anymore in our country, We also want true democracy not pseudo-democracy. We don't want Chavez's "21st century socialism" in our country. All that does is oppress people and take a country into misery. Democratic rights are destroyed and all institutions become perverted. You like to paint a pretty picture of the leaders of the ALBA, but you are deceiving your readers. why don't you also talk about the oppression these leaders have caused for their people, and the slow deterioration of any type of constitution that each respective country has. Each of these ALBA nations is being perverted by Chavez and he is slowly destroying the years of progress many of these countries have had. No one is over the law, but apparently these leaders are. I invite you to visit the people in Venezuela,Honduras,Cuba,Nicaragua, and Bolivia, and speak to the true people of those nations and ask them for their opinion, not the opinion fabricated by the media. SUFFERING that is all you will hear. In regards to the Military I know the General firsthand, and they are all united to defend the nation and its constitution, WE DO ACCEPT REFORM IN OUR CONSTITUTION, JUST NOT A CHANGE IN PRESIDENTIAL TERM YEARS. PLEASE READ THE CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF HONDURAS, THEN REWRITE THIS ABSURD STORY.
Wrong
[info]il_767 wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 12:27 am (UTC)


Zelaya tried to do an end run around the constitution and got caught, so he tried using a mob anyway. Caught again he was removed from office, by order of the supreme court, quite rightly. He probably shouldn't've been sent abroad but you can't blame them for wanting rid of a would-be Chavez.

Written Independently from the FACTS
[info]maria_honduras wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 12:43 am (UTC)
In this highly biased piece, the author has failed to point out that thecause of the so-called coup is Zelaya's willingness to violate the Honduran constitution by organizing and promoting and funding (with public money) a referendum to dissolve the congress and re-write the constitution in order to re-elect himself as president. The referendum was deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court,the attorney general, the congress, honduran lawyer association among amny other organizations. The referendum itself was also supported by Hugo Chavez (bastion of democracy- closing more than 200 radio stations for opposing him: http://momento24.com/en/2009/07/17/venezuela-chavez-to-close-250-broadcasting-stations/ and undermining democratically elected officials: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/07/07/venezuela.mayor/index.html ). Venezuela not only helped with funds but also provided the materials (such as ballots) for the referendum.

About one week ago, Mr. Zelaya flew to Honduras in an attempt to retake the goverment... he did this with the "independently" minded OAS secretary General Insulza on board a plane provided by the Venezuelan goverment... We know Insulza in independent becuase he forced Honduras out of the OAS without investigating any of the accusations against Zelaya. Furthermore, Insulza hgas promoted Cuba's memebership and has stayed absolutely mum in regards to any attacks on democracy or freedom of press in Venezuela.

Congratulations on an article written INDEPENDENT-ly from any TRUTH. I hope that in the future better background research is required.
Re: Written Independently from the FACTS
[info]skyemartyn wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 03:29 pm (UTC)
So, a countries constitution can never be challenged then? Never be changed or torn up? Not even by the people - democratically via referendum? Who elected the current president? Why has he not instigated a fresh election? Why has he had to impose curfews if he has the support of the people?

Let the Honduran people decide if the constitution is to be changed, not a court. If the people indeed support the supreme court then there is nothing to be afraid of. However, to me it sounds like powerful people with powerful allies overseas do not want the Honduran people to impose their will on a constitution that until now, supported the rich and powerful.
Re: Written Independently from the FACTS - [info]maria_honduras - Sunday, 26 July 2009 at 10:34 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Written Independently from the FACTS - [info]jv27 - Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 10:37 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Written Independently from the FACTS - [info]maria_honduras - Monday, 20 July 2009 at 06:22 am (UTC) Expand
Your reporting is not accurate
[info]lgates wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 12:45 am (UTC)
The International Republican Institute has no connection to Robert Carmona-Borjas or Arcadia. In addition, IRI is not the "overseas arm of the Republican Party."
"The International Republican Institute has no connection to Robert Carmona-Borjas or Arcadia"
[info]chanch5 wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 03:22 pm (UTC)
Seems to have been deleted?

I quoted from George Washington University's website showing a course jointly offered by Carmona-Borjas together with a member of the International Republican Institute, Brandon Muier, as Teaching Assistant.

(Sinisterly entitled: "Political Management in Latin America")

Perhaps the fact the website showed contact details for both these individuals is what led to the comment being removed.

Without quoting that data then, (albeit in the public domain): I would like to reassert that the above claims by "lgates" certainly made me laugh.

I thank you,

Hogwash!
[info]omnimal wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 01:14 am (UTC)
What a misinformed, or more likely, an agenda-driven, radical ass this author must be to write such blatant untruths. Democracy reigns in Honduras, and it rose to the challenge and persevered in its constitutionally just ousting of Zelaya.
Lies
[info]doubting_rich wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 01:32 am (UTC)
This piece is a string of complete lies, an utter travesty. Micheletti did not order Zelaya expelled, the Supreme Court did. By the Honduras Constitution as soon as Zelaya tried to hold a referendum to allow an extra term he was no longer President, in his pyjamas or otherwise, so the President was never exiled. The constitution meant that, given the post of Vice President was vacant, Speaker Micheletti automatically became President, by Zelaya's actions not Micheletti's.

How can you post this just hours after reports surface in the Spanish and Catalan-language press that the referendum results were found on a computer in Zelaya's palace? The unconstitutional referendum that was never held. If that is true then even the blind might be able to see Zelaya's corruption.

There is far too much to say here, but I have blogged extensively, with many links about all these issues.

http://my-own-doubts.blogspot.com/search/label/Honduras
DEMOCRACY IN HONDURAS
[info]quilombo2 wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 03:32 am (UTC)
Thank you for your informative article.We know who these people are that attempt to shout down the truth.I watched the congressional hearings on Honduras on Cspan tv.I listened to the questions posed by the congressional members of the black caucas,which laid bare the lies,spin and hype of the newly installed'juanta',and their highly paid american mouthpieces.
Hugo Chavez is a hero to poor and working class people all over the world,and the alliance between Zelaya and Chavez will enhance democracy for 'those without voice' in Honduras
Something stinks
[info]rhinocircus wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 05:35 am (UTC)
There is something of a smell here. Zelaya does not act like a deposed President, but one who may be relieved by an agreed coup d'etat.
The man is from a wealthy landowning group, which now appears to have leaned on him.
In his present ambivalent posture, with silly big white hat, it would be regrettable, if any honest thinking supporter gave his or her life for this jellied enigma.
Zelaya is too supine and appears to be unsure of himself--not for what he tried to do--which would still have been democratic--but lacking commitment and backbone. He does look rather like a dilettante, than any potential dictator.
Be careful Hugo, this guy may be a self-serving double agent, who really represents the self-serving oligarch Hondurans.
How about fish & chips democracy: Only choice is Lavatories or Labour that doesn't work.
[info]djangovsartana wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 07:55 am (UTC)
The only choice British democracy has is: Lbour/Lavatories = Plague/Cholera.
What are you smoking
[info]terrymaher wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 08:15 am (UTC)
You can't be serious with any of this. And the Republicans caused those nice Chinese all that trouble? Please!
Right on
[info]democracylives wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 08:23 am (UTC)
This is a very good article that describes very well the situation in Honduras. The military, Congress, and the media worked together to promote the coup with right wing officials from the United States that have not realized that there is a new progressive administration in Washington.
It seems that only the "brilliant" Honduran coup plotters and the idiots that believe everything they watch on television, understand the legality of this brutal action. To them the rest of the world is dead wrong about this atrocity to democracy.
Manuel Zelaya was out of the presidency for promoting a non binding poll, nonsense, the court order that promoted the coup, never mentioned article 239 of the constitution that refers to this premise. The candidates from the two main political parties supported a constitutional ballot box for the November elections, does that mean that they should be sent to prison for promoting that?, of course not, Honduras is not a fascist state, or at least it was not before the coup.
The good thing about this event, if there can be any, is that the golpistas will carry that name in their forehead forever. The bipartisan system is shaking, the liberal party candidate was 14 points ahead before the coup, today he is five behind, according to a recent Gallup poll.
The Honduran elites do not seem to understand that they do not own the country. 70% of the population or more live under $1 a day. This people feel betrayed even after the bombardment of local media trying to explain the unexplainable.
The vast majority of Honduras do not speak english or do not have access to the internet, if they had, believe me, they would expressing their anger here and not only on the streets of the country.
To those that support the coup, time will show them that when an injustice is applied to them, their right to complain will be severely compromise by their double standards. Shame on them.

Cast-iron proof
[info]fin_d_empire wrote:
Monday, 20 July 2009 at 06:29 am (UTC)
Thanks to this superlative piece of investigative journalism we now hold incontrovertible proof that Barack Obama is a dirty, lying, murderous piece of neocon shit pretending to be a black JFK. Here he is caught red-handed in cahoots with the CIA terrorist Otto Reich and the death-squad ambassador John Negroponte, trying to hold the line against the Bolivarian revolution in the quintessential US banana republic Honduras.
It was in Honduras that the United Fruit, the Standard Fruit, and Sam Zemurray's Cuyamel Fruit companies dominated the country's key banana export sector and support sectors such as railways. The United Fruit Company was nicknamed "The Octopus" (El Pulpo) for its willingness to involve itself in politics, sometimes violently. In 1910, Zemurray hired a gang of armed thugs including Lee Christmas from New Orleans to stage a coup in Honduras to obtain beneficial treatment from the new government. Zemurray would 22 years later take over United Fruit in a hostile bid.

Four decades later, the directors of United Fruit played a role in convincing the Truman and Eisenhower administrations that the government of Colonel Arbenz in Guatemala was secretly pro-Soviet, thus contributing to the CIA's decision to assist in overthrowing Arbenz's government in 1954 (see Operation PBSUCCESS).[1] Pablo Neruda would later denounce the dominance of foreign-owned banana producers in the politics of several Latin American countries in a poem titled "La United Fruit Co".

Yanks started to turn Latin America into a bunch of banana republics in Honduras. That's where the Yank evil first struck and that's where the final battle is being fought to kick the dirty lying murderous thieving Yank bastards forever out of Latin America. The dirty, lying, murderous piece of Yanqui shit who is making the Yanqui empire's last stand, from Honduras all the way to the AfPak hell is el Presidento Barack Hussein Obama, the slick SOB who was plucked from the political gangland of Chicago by his Republican, Pentagon-connected mentors in the Senate and financed to the gills by Wall Street crooks to achieve instant greatness.
right on
[info]democracylives wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 08:25 am (UTC)
This is a very good article that describes very well the situation in Honduras. The military, Congress, and the media worked together to promote the coup with right wing officials from the United States that have not realized that there is a new progressive administration in Washington.
It seems that only the "brilliant" Honduran coup plotters and the idiots that believe everything they watch on television, understand the legality of this brutal action. To them the rest of the world is dead wrong about this atrocity to democracy.
Manuel Zelaya was out of the presidency for promoting a non binding poll, nonsense, the court order that promoted the coup, never mentioned article 239 of the constitution that refers to this premise. The candidates from the two main political parties supported a constitutional ballot box for the November elections, does that mean that they should be sent to prison for promoting that?, of course not, Honduras is not a fascist state, or at least it was not before the coup.
The good thing about this event, if there can be any, is that the golpistas will carry that name in their forehead forever. The bipartisan system is shaking, the liberal party candidate was 14 points ahead before the coup, today he is five behind, according to a recent Gallup poll.
The Honduran elites do not seem to understand that they do not own the country. 70% of the population or more live under $1 a day. This people feel betrayed even after the bombardment of local media trying to explain the unexplainable.
The vast majority of Honduras do not speak english or do not have access to the internet, if they had, believe me, they would expressing their anger here and not only on the streets of the country.
To those that support the coup, time will show them that when an injustice is applied to them, their right to complain will be severely compromise by their double standards. Shame on them.

Smells like the CIA
[info]arion444 wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 08:32 am (UTC)
If anyone still has delusions that electing Obama was a mandate for 'change', then this is just another nail in that coffin. Puhleeeeze!
Re: Smells like the CIA
[info]sillofthedoor wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 10:41 am (UTC)
I don't understand your argument here. The article to me shows quite clearly that if Clinton or McCain were in it would be business as usual, with full support from the entire US administration.

To say Obama might be isolated and ineffectual because of the many elements in the US govt that will happily support these coups is obvious, but it's still a step forward from how it has run in the past - they now have to hide what they are doing from the pres.

That's already different regardless of the outcome.

To expect mush more 'change' than that at this stage is delusional.

If, however the coup is reversed because it cannot muster the necessary US support, then that will be a first, and a significant step forward for 'change'.

I find that encouraging, but then I don't have unrealistic expectations. I expect any change that does come to be in one step at a time and resisted all the way.
Re: Smells like the CIA - [info]chanch5 - Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 10:59 am (UTC) Expand
The test
[info]brinksman wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 09:50 am (UTC)
The test will be what will happen when/if Manuel Zelaya returns. Only then will we see the support or lack of it.
Very good article - Thank you
[info]nico_s wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 11:18 am (UTC)
For once the TRUTH !! Everything in this article can be verified.

Each time TRUTH is written, supporters of the 'evil' doers flood the comments zone with false statements, false reports from Latin America, misleading stories. Most are paid to do that, some are just imbeciles.
Support for this article
[info]doubting_rich wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 11:45 am (UTC)
Those claiming that this article is in any way true or balanced should watch the video maria_honduras linked to at 12:16 am. An excellent piece, quoting the actual words of the Honduras Constitution that removed Zelaya from office (that anyone even trying to change the constitution to allow a second presidential term automatically forfeits any government post; the post of President is not excluded), and video of his thuggish actions in contravention of a Supreme-Court order.

This is a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maMA3PTYoZE
Re: Support for this article
[info]pollytux wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 12:14 pm (UTC)
Anyone from Honduras that is replying to articles on the internet is obviously on the side of the coup and part of the wealthy class who planned, funded and supports it! The wealthy believe in Democracy only if it represents their wishes, and they are the ones in control.
Re: Support for this article - [info]doubting_rich - Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 02:25 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Support for this article - [info]sillofthedoor - Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 09:39 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Support for this article - [info]doubting_rich - Monday, 20 July 2009 at 01:46 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Support for this article - [info]sillofthedoor - Monday, 20 July 2009 at 04:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Support for this article - [info]doubting_rich - Tuesday, 21 July 2009 at 12:56 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Support for this article - [info]sillofthedoor - Tuesday, 21 July 2009 at 07:10 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Support for this article - [info]doubting_rich - Tuesday, 21 July 2009 at 11:30 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Support for this article - [info]sillofthedoor - Wednesday, 22 July 2009 at 01:31 am (UTC) Expand
and another thing... - [info]sillofthedoor - Monday, 20 July 2009 at 05:47 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]elmagq - Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 12:54 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Support your country
[info]media_myths wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 02:11 pm (UTC)
Don't do it! This is a virus initiated by far-right neo-cons who hate it when facts destroy the house of cards that is their naive selfish politics!
Is a coup attempt being 'helped' in Iran?
[info]fredscribe1 wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 01:24 pm (UTC)
There's a US finger in this particular pie, one may have no doubt. Is there another in the demonstrations and upheavals in Iran? I wouldn't be quick to say there isn't. It's the American way. What is missing from much opinion here is the simple fact that what Honduras does is its own business. And what Iran does is hers. It is a sovereign state and there is no moral authority anywhere in the rest of the world to suggest that what it does or doesn't do is correct or incorrect. The real offence is that affairs within that country are interfered with by outside agencies, such as the US or any other portion of the West. This is to be deplored.
Re: Is a coup attempt being 'helped' in Iran?
[info]doubting_rich wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 02:26 pm (UTC)
Balls. The US is on Zelaya's side, to its great shame.
Re: Is a coup attempt being 'helped' in Iran? - [info]corporeal_v001 - Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 04:08 pm (UTC) Expand
honduras
[info]baagwan wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 03:15 pm (UTC)
You are so full of BS, get your facts straight. We don't need a history lesson. We know what happened here. The roads are not all blocked, and the majority want Mel gone or in prison. The press has been all wrong since the beginning. Mel was stealing money, violating the constitution, and facilitating drug running. He resigned the presidency by his actions. Your laws don't apply here! We have a long history of bad government, and for the first time, a Central american republic threw off a dictator wannabe and handed the reigns back to the civilian government that lawfully removed him from office. Your spin on this is wrong, destructive, and disgusting.
Re: honduras
[info]il_767 wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 03:49 pm (UTC)


Can anyone vouch for these links/translations ?

http://babalublog.com/2009/07/a-page-out-of-the-chavez-leftist-in-other-words-playbook/

The National Directors of Criminal Investigation seized various computers from the Presidential Palace that had recorded the supposed results of the referendum to reform the constitution that the deposed leader, Manuel Zelaya, was planning to conduct on July 28, the day he was removed from office. . . .

Re: honduras - [info]chanch5 - Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 08:34 pm (UTC) Expand
How wrong can you be?
[info]totalkaosdave wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 03:52 pm (UTC)
It was not a coup. It was democracy in action. "Democracy", an awful term for those that favor dictatorships.
What happened in Honduras:
Mel Zelaya is, or was, the President of Honduras. He and Hugo Chaves were tight. So tight, it seems, that Zelaya wanted to emulate Hugo by changing the Honduran constitution to allow him to run for office until he durned well gets tired of it.

To change the constitution in Honduras you have to convene a constituent assembly. The president cannot do that. The Honduran congress must approve a national referendum calling for the constituent assembly to consider changes to the constitution. Zelaya didn't like the part about the constitution requiring approval of the congress before a national referendum could be called. So ... he decided to call one on his own.

OK .. so here we have President Zelaya calling for a national referendum when he doesn't have the power to do so. The next problem is obtaining ballots! Since the Honduran congress had not called for the referendum, as required by the constitution, the government certainly wasn't going to print the ballots! After all, how smart would it be to print ballots for an illegal referendum? So ... Zelaya had to get the ballots printed elsewhere. Here's an idea! Get his pall Hugo Chavez to print them! Yes! That will work!

So Chaves prints Zelaya's ballots and they're shipped to Honduras. Enter the Honduran Supreme Court. The court considers Zelaya's election in light of the requirements of the Honduran constitution, and rules the referendum illegal and unconstitutional. The court then issues an order to the Honduran military telling them not to do the logistical work associated with Zelaya's phony referendum. Remember, now ... all of this has one primary goal. To get rid of the term limits limiting Zelaya's rule in Honduras.
After the supreme court's decision, General Romeo Velasquez tells President Zelaya that he is subject to a proper order from the Supreme Court and will not be able to carry out Zelaya's referendum. So ... Zelaya fires him. The Supreme Court orders Zelaya to reinstate Velasquez, and Zelaya refuses to do so.

At this point Zelaya's ego is getting the better of him. If the military won't run his illegal referendum, he'll just do it himself. He gins up a mob and leads them to the military compound where Hugo's ballots are stored and then has his supporters begin distributing the ballots to the masses.

Based on the Supreme Court's ruling the Honduran attorney general said that the proposed referendum was illegal and said that he would arrest anyone attempting to carry out the election. Zelaya was arrested by the military and was escorted out of the country.

Now ... does this sound like a military coup-de-etat to you? The attorney general and the military were operating in accordance with the Honduran rule of law. They acted under a valid court order. Coup? The Honduran congress has convened and designated a successor president, all in accordance with the Honduran Constitution. Military coup? The presidential elections set for November .. the election that Zelaya was trying to get around ... will go on as scheduled. A blow for democracy?

Try a little truth next time.
Obama forcing Hondurans to submit to Chavez and Marxism!
[info]antoniososa wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 05:21 pm (UTC)
Millions of Venezuelans, Nicaraguans, Bolivians, Ecuadorians, etc. wish we could have done what Hondurans are doing before the Marxist thugs working for Castro and Chavez enslaved our countries like Zelaya is trying to enslave Honduras.

The U.S. should be supporting Hondurans and the rule of law, NOT Zelaya, a Chavez clone desperate to enslave Hondurans! It's despicable that, rather than defending the human rights of Hondurans and Latin Americans, the Obama administration is siding with the Marxist thugs who are trampling on human rights and working with drug cartels and Islamic terrorist to destroy the U.S!

I guess it was to be expected from Obama. As his parents, relatives, friends and mentors, Obama is a Marxist who hates the U.S. As such, he sides with Marxist dictators and would-be dictators who seek to enslave their countries and destroy the U.S.

Zelaya was implementing in Honduras the scheme devised by Castro and implemented by Chavez and the rest of the Marxist thugs to gain absolute power. Thanks to Clinton, now Chavez and Zelaya have Oscar Arias, whom they can use as a "democratic" front to get a stronger hold of their prey, the Honduran people!
Re: Obama forcing Hondurans to submit to Chavez and Marxism!
[info]chanch5 wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 05:43 pm (UTC)
I must say the funniest part of your comment was about "Islamic Terrorists to destroy the US".

Until that point, you succesfully managed to restrain the urge to destroy your argument with unstable claims far removed from any reality.
Propaganda from Marxist thugs
[info]antoniososa wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 05:27 pm (UTC)
The mainstream media is presenting as news the ridiculous propaganda of Marxist thugs Castro and Chavez.

Millions of Venezuelans, Nicaraguans, Bolivians, Ecuadorians, etc. wish we could have done what Hondurans are doing before the Marxist thugs working for Castro and Chavez enslaved our countries like Zelaya is trying to enslave Honduras.

The U.S. should be supporting Hondurans and the rule of law, NOT Zelaya, a Chavez clone desperate to enslave Hondurans! It's despicable that, rather than defending the human rights of Hondurans and Latin Americans, the Obama administration is siding with the Marxist thugs who are trampling on human rights and working with drug cartels and Islamic terrorist to destroy the U.S!

I guess it was to be expected from Obama. As his parents, relatives, friends and mentors, Obama is a Marxist who hates the U.S. As such, he sides with Marxist dictators and would-be dictators who seek to enslave their countries and destroy the U.S.

Zelaya was implementing in Honduras the scheme devised by Castro and implemented by Chavez and the rest of the Marxist thugs to gain absolute power. Thanks to Clinton, now Chavez and Zelaya have Oscar Arias, whom they can use as a "democratic" front to get a stronger hold of their prey, the Honduran people!
[info]chanch5 wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 09:24 pm (UTC)
According to Argentine president Cristina Kirchner, who was with Zelaya, (as reported by Horacio Verbitsky in an article touching on a variety of Argentine local subjects), the general involved in taking Zelaya to Costa Rica told him:
[info]chanch5 wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 09:26 pm (UTC)
"I was ordered to kill you, but I am going to make sure you live, Mr. President"

http://www.pagina12.com.ar/diario/elpais/1-128473-2009-07-19.html
(no subject) - [info]chanch5 - Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 10:56 pm (UTC) Expand
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