Obama pledges to protect CIA torture operatives
Memos released show waterboarding of terror suspects was legal in Bush era
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Independent Minds
Barack Obama yesterday confirmed he will shield from prosecution CIA operatives who inflicted waterboarding and other extreme interrogation techniques against terror suspects during the Bush years, even as the White House released memos containing shocking new details of what was permitted in their secret prisons.
Four of the memos that were written by the Justice Department officials in the wake of the 11 September attacks offering legal justification for the use of special techniques on prisoners were made public in their entirety without any passages blacked out, as some observers had expected.
The now-discredited practices detailed in the documents ranged from waterboarding to collaring prisoners before slamming them naked against a wall. Suspects were forced to stand naked for prolonged periods and were slapped and deprived of sleep. One passage refers to the placement of insects into a suspect's "confinement box".
In a statement issued after his arrival in Mexico yesterday on a 24-hour visit, Mr Obama acknowledged what he called "a dark and painful chapter in our history". He then went on: "But at a time of great challenges and disturbing disunity, nothing will be gained by spending our time and energy laying blame for the past."
Human rights groups and Democratic activists will be disappointed, though not surprised, by Mr Obama's continuing unwillingness to pursue those who carried out what they consider to have been war crimes. The memos were only released because of a lawsuit against the administration by the American Civil Liberties Union.
Mr Obama has decisively distanced himself from his predecessor, vowing upon taking office that all torture would be discontinued immediately, arguing that it was antithetical to America's values. He said that the perception that America would torture to protect its safety did not in fact make it safer, but the opposite. The President has also vowed to close all US facilities at Guantanamo Bay.He echoed the same sentiments last night. "Enlisting our values in the protection of our people makes us stronger and more secure," Mr Obama said in his statement.
Last week, the new CIA director, Leon Panetta, also took the symbolic step of formally decommissioning the secret prisons that were set up in at least eight countries around the world where some of the worst interrogations of the terror suspects took place.
One of the memos being seen for the first time approved waterboarding. It was written in 2002 by the former Assistant Attorney General Jay Bybee for the CIA's top lawyer, John Rizzo. It was written specifically to broaden the techniques available to operatives interrogating an al-Qa'ida suspect, Abu Zubaydah.
"We find that the use of the waterboarding constitutes a threat of imminent death" - one of the criteria for torture - the memo says. "It creates in the subject the uncontrollable physiological sensation that the subject is drowning." It also says that, "in the absence of prolonged mental harm, no severe mental pain or suffering would have been inflicted, and the use of these procedures would not constitute torture within the meaning of the statute".
Separately, last night, the US Attorney General Eric Holder reaffirmed that those CIA employees involved in past torture must be protected from prosecution. Indeed, the US government, he said, would provide them with lawyers in the event others tried to bring cases against them and pay for any monetary penalties they might incur.
"It would be unfair to prosecute dedicated men and women working to protect America for conduct that was sanctioned in advance by the Justice Department," Mr Holder said. He was partly intending to send a message to Spain, where a judge recently signalled his intention to bring charges against US interrogators.
The action by the ACLU against the Obama administration had already forced it to release nine other memos earlier this month. Most experts expect that more such documents will be released in the coming weeks. Details of the harsh treatment of the detainees were also contained in a recent International Red Cross report written on the basis of interviews conducted with six prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.
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Comments
These guys knew they were breaking the law and breaking the morals of the country, here we go again with the just following orders excuse.
It seems to be only good for the Americans everyone else gets tried and convicted and jailed or hung.
What did we say about Saddam Hussein goons in Iraq and their torture?
From this day forward the United States of America will never be able to open its mouth in regards to torture, and the, just following orders excuse and it has set a precedent around the world.
And by the way almost every single one of these guys they tortured. Turned Out to be innocent and has been released from Guantanamo Bay.
Most of them were no more than Taliban foot soldiers that had no idea what the hell was going on.
And if america's foreign policy wasn't so screwed they probably would not have been attacked to start with. Or did you actually believe George Bush when he said "there jealous of our freedoms" that he then went and took away, and don't forget Tony Blair also took away your civil liberties terrorist didn't do that. A government that you have no control over did.
You people just don't get it it's not a game to see who can outdo each other using torture a democracy is supposed to have principles that it stands by its post to have a rule of law that is the cornerstone of democracy not torture.
Instead of prosecuting the CIA operatives, how about just cut to the chase and get Dubya.
Well lets face it if we stopped participating so energetically in terrorism then maybe we could make some real headway in cutting down this madness. yes, thats right our governments sanction terrorism on others! and guess what? most indi readers already know this as fact.
Almost reminds me of the Monty Python sketch "Oh no - not the comfy chair"!!!
And as for standing naked and being slapped, people in England pay good money for that! (Are you listening, Max Mosley?)
There is a long and ugly, pretty-documented history there, if you are into barbarian practices. This is one reason Latin American countries have lately been moving ever closer to resolving their own continental affairs without US interference.
This decision by president Obama will not stop others in the future from committing similar crimes. This decision also does not seem consistant with the precedents we set at Nuremberg. The German criminals then also said that they were following orders.
David
Memos released show of terror suspects was legal in Bush era
When Hitler was in power, he kept the prisoner locked and did not allow the neck to move. Then he slowly let the water drip on the head of the prisoner, good or bad. The drops came and hit the head. The captives for minute or three took these. Then the drops slowly felt like the canons in the silent of the day?s dark and loneliness. Then the sound seemed to explode the head and these killed many. Is these water torture or waterboarding? William Shirer in his book, ?Rise and Fall of The Third Reich? writes about the tortures. The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, by journalist William L. Shirer, is a history of Nazi Germany in English, first published in 1960 by Simon & Schuster, Inc.. Shirer, an American radio reporter for CBS who also worked for...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_
We are looking for Hitler now as the worst human killer. I have no idea CIA is in the line but some one ca give me some guidance.
A great article worth trying
I thank you
Firozali A. Mulla
1) Carrying out orders was not a defense.
2) Starting wars was a crime against humanity.
This article states:
"The US Attorney General Eric Holder reaffirmed that those CIA employees involved in past torture must be protected from prosecution.
"It would be unfair to prosecute dedicated men and women working to protect America for conduct that was sanctioned in advance by the Justice Department," Mr Holder said."
Conclusion 1: The present american legal principles is that war criminals that follows orders should not be prosecuted. With that logic many of the nazi war criminals in Nuremberg were innocent.
"A crime against peace, in international law, refers to the act of military invasion as a war crime, specifically referring to starting or waging war against the integrity, independence, or sovereignty of a territory or state. The definition of crimes against peace was first incorporated into the Nuremberg Principles and later included in the United Nations Charter. In 1950, the Nuremberg Tribunal defined Crimes against Peace (in Principle VI.a, submitted to the United Nations General Assembly) as
(i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;
(ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).
For committing this crime, the Nuremberg Tribunal sentenced a number of persons responsible for starting World War II. One consequence of this is that nations who are starting an armed conflict must now argue that they are either exercising the right of self-defense, the right of collective defense, or - it seems - the enforcement of the criminal law of jus cogens." (Wikipedia)
Japanese politicans were at the end of WW2 tried and convicted by the US of war crimes. The following people were convicted of "only" waging unprovoked and aggressive war: One former premier (Hiranuma), two former foreign ministers (Matsuoka, Togo), two former war ministers (Araki, Minami), two former navy ministers (Nagano, Shimada), two former generals (Sato, Umezu), two former ambassadors (Oshima, Shiratori), three former economic and financial leaders (Hoshino, Kaya, Suzuki), one imperial adviser (Kido), one radical theorist (Okawa), one admiral (Oka) and one colonel (Hashimoto).
Conclusion 2: Following the same legal principles that were applied by the US in WW2, several american politicains are clearly war criminals that deserves to be hanged.
2) Afghanistan was sheltering terrorists that attacked America and would have attacked America again, thus the Afghan war was self-defence and a collective defense. Iraq was believed to be a threat so it was attacked in self defense. So no American politicians need to be hung.
Those who lead this kind of military adventure ALWAYS paint it as a matter of defence, or noble cause. They have to mobilise the sheep.
The ones who issued the orders are certainly to blame, right you are, as are those who were "just following orders". That is why some Israeli soldiers have been refusing to follow orders they have reason to believe are illegal, because they know they would be liable, and because they have their own consciences, something your judgement re: "defence" (considering the US refused to accept the Taliban's offer to transfer Bin Laden to a neutral country for trial (1) AND that the US government KNEW Saddam had no weapons capability(2) [and what if he had had, I ask]) is apparently somewhat lacking in.
(1) http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oc
(2) http://100777.com/node/589
Thank you.
Justifying torture by saying the terrorists do it brings one down to the level of the terrorist. But I suppose it could be argued that in the past that would be an accurate description of the USA.
Let's hope Obama is going to make sure it is in the past.
I would really like to know.
Blair is a fake Christian as everyone of his acts in power goes against Christian teaching. He famously once said "We don't do God". This mock faith nature of his behaviour now (coupled with the total insincerity of the way he talks, holds himself, gestures - I am sorry this is a complete 'unfortunately only rhetorical' assassination - is clearly over compensation for his inner guilt which he refuses to confess. Blair is a lawyer and is wily and understands 'client perception' is part of the battle.
I am sure God would forgive him, but Blair either does not seem capable of understanding the true depths of his wrongdoing (and its consequences) and/or the meaning of the word forgiveness or has simply (and more likely) sold his soul irrefutably to Lucifer in return for his power. He will, I presume, get his justified reward in Hell.
My only hope is that if there is a heaven, God will permit us day trips to hell to jeer and throw eggs at these demons who will be restrained for all eternity behind bars then fully aware of the hate and horror and wrong doing they wrought upon man in return for their 15 minutes of fame.
I pity Blair more than hate him.
As to Obama, he's just a Muppet in the same mould as all of the presidents of the USA since the assassination of JFK. They are all crooks and regard themselves above the law. Time will have something up its sleeve for them too soon.
I also hope this.*
*Disclaimer: I don't believe in Heaven and Hell etc, but if it did exist I'd like to hope that this is what happens!
As an American, I find this news appalling. As an American, I will be saddened if there is not a hue and cry against Obama on this issue. As an American, I am ashamed that there will be no investigation into the Bush/Cheney crimes against humanity, which Obama has repeatedly said he would not follow up.
A bumper sticker from IndyMedia in Portland, Oregon sums it up nicely regarding Obamanation:
"WHERE'S MY CHANGE?"
Unless we choose to create the change, it just ain't gonna happen folks. That takes courage, fortitude, intelligence, critical thinking, and b*lls. Oh, never mind. What's on the telly this weekend?
Whatever suits the U.S. has to be o.k. for the rest of the world whether it should be or not.
Torture is torture no matter who administers it.
I call it HYPOCRISY. on the part of Obama and I can see him morphing into another Bush over the coming four years.
It's a good job they are finished.
With 700,000+ job losses a month and 175,000 home forclosures [for month of March]
the United States.. NAY... the Unemployed States of America will not last another 12 Months.
By year end they will be finished.
The USA will collapse, dragging down any nation too reliant upon them, too tied up in their financial clutches.
Time to hack away all moring lines, else they'll most certainly go with them.
Then the only people they torture then, will be themselves when their own kinsfolk turn upon the Federal Government and themselves.
Just one of many disapointments from Barack Osama.
In his short Presidency, the American will get many more of these before it ends for them all.
They will get their 'Change', but it will be the biggest change for the worse they can imagine.
Fret not people...there is some justice to it all.
The USA is finished.
The same cannot be said of Blair and his gang, who were complicit in these crimes, and are subject to the full rigour of international, EU and British law.
When do their trials start?
As a white South African, I know only too well how the mentality behind the "innocent" torture techniques described above inevitably leads to total depravity and moral collapse if not halted and reversed. Next it will be OK to pull finger-nails, dismember and kill. And if you think this will be limited to "foreign" "terrorists", think again.
What happened to all the crap some years back about west being the "civilised world". Geneva conventions were part derived from fair prisioner treatment during wars using Islamic principles from the crusades.
Now that Geneva conventions are being selectively implemented, thanks to the Bush and Blair. Soldiers who get caught are going to suffer - torture is going to be dished as revenge.
Those in the USA who bent the international laws should be named, shamed and where possible made accountable. As should any Muslims who break these rules. All sides must be held accountable for breaking established international humanatarian laws.
The same could be said for some of the atroscities committed during the second world war, weren't those soldiers only following orders?or would it have been "unfair to have prosecuted dedicated men and women working to protect" Bush is the man who should answer for these crimes after all his troops were only following orders, where have we heard that before? you tell some of the innocent people who were subjected to this type of torture that the torturer was only following orders. i am sure that this will make them feel better. What we have here is an example of, we will do what we want so get on with it.Human rights, your'e having a laugh at everyone's expense. what's new?
alphonsus123
because the winner writes the history and from the dawn of history the world has followed the Golden rule,
he who has the gold, makes the rules.
I thank you
Firozali A. Mulla
I can't help but feel that any prosecution of the CIA opperatives would lead to greater questions concerning the decisions taken by Bush and his regime - that is, in my opinion a greater contributor to this decision than has been recognised in this article.
Charlie F
UK
mr. obama should prove to the world that he is no longer a slave and he will stand upto the masters. if he fails to do so americans can no longer go around the world as crusaders of democracy.
if mr. obama protects the bush admin and cia for these crimes then he will surely have to protect John Demjanjuk (the senile old man being tried for as a nazi war prison guard) and surely the taliban (as the west also accuses them of torture)
and its too late to bring mr. saddam hussain back because he was put to death on charges of torture.
today everyone should jump for joy because america the nation once famed is now shamed!
Alhamdulillah / Allah o Akbar!
Besides, punishing the CIA in a serious fashion is impossible.
The CIA is a law unto itself with the president often not even aware of some of the things they are doing towards longer-term goals.
Please remember that the only president who actually threatened the CIA - out of anger over the Bay of Pigs - was assassinated.
Legality is not even an issue here.
The invasion of Iraq broke every international law on the books.
Abu Ghraib, the same.
Guantanamo, the same.
The assassinations in Pakistan, the same.
The mass killing of Taleban captives in the early days of the Afghan invasion - 3000 disappeared and their bodies are buried in the desert - the same.
The shooting, imprisonment, and torture of a boy - Omar Khadr - the same.
Israel's savage, cowardly attacks on Gaza and Lebanon, using American weapons and having tacit American permission, the same.
The U.S. is now so beyond such niceties as law and international conventions that Obama's election cannot possibly turn it around greatly.
It is a brutal imperial power with no consideration for anyone standing in what it considers its way.
That is why it is precisely lawyers from the "Justice" department against whom charges were being considered in Spanish courts.
What would happen if the so-called terrorist tortured American troops, hear them quoting the Geneva Conventions.
Just look at the American track record before and after WWII, they called it policing the world, rather odd wouldn't you say?
The people of the USA are stupid if they do not raise up their united voices and impeach this would-be dictator who pardons all crimes against humanity. He is rapidly becoming worse than W Bush and must be held accountable for his numerous misdeeds. Obama is a criminal at best, a village idiot in reality.
Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape':
"At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee."
source:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne
further:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf