World

Partly Sunny with Showers 12° London Hi 12°C / Lo 6°C

Obama risks wrath of his liberal base

Decision to revive military trials for terror suspects welcomed by Republicans – and lambasted by human rights activists

By David Usborne, US editor

Barack Obama says military tribunals are the best way to try enemies of the US

AP

Barack Obama says military tribunals are the best way to try enemies of the US

Risking the wrath of his liberal base, Barack Obama yesterday unveiled plans that will revive the Bush administration's military commissions to try terror suspects being held at Guantanamo Bay.

Although his plan will modify the tribunals in an effort to expand the legal rights of the defendants, the decision has already proved controversial. One of Mr Obama's first acts as President was to announce the closing of Guantanamo Bay within a year and the suspending of the tribunals which drew criticism around the world. As a candidate, he favoured turning to America's federal courts or the traditional military judicial system to try the cases.

But pressure has been building on Mr Obama to explain what he planned to do with the roughly 241 detainees at Guantanamo – and particularly how he would proceed with the 20-odd cases due to be handled under the commission system set up by an act of Congress in 2006. He remains squeezed by competing priorities: to repudiate the past Bush policies while not compromising national security.

His statement yesterday reflected that balance: "This is the best way to protect our country, while upholding our deeply held values," he said. And while acknowledging that he had "objected strongly" to the Bush approach, he insisted that military tribunals "are appropriate for trying enemies who violate the laws of war".

There was support for the shift from a key moderate Republican, Senator Lindsey Graham. "I continue to believe it is in our own national security interests to separate ourselves from the past problems of Guantanamo," he said, while adding: "I agree with the President and our military commanders that now is the time to start over and strengthen our detention policies. I applaud the President's actions today." But liberals will point unhappily to an emerging pattern of Mr Obama retreating from his initial instinct to throw Bush anti-terror policies overboard.

He performed a similarly perilous policy pirouette earlier this week when he sought to block attempts to release a new batch of photographs of prisoner abuse by members of the US military, saying that to do so would endanger US soldiers serving abroad. Previously, the White House had indicated that it would not intervene after a court ordered the release of the photographs.

It will hardly help him, however, that at least one of the photographs in question has now leaked. The SBS television channel in Australia revealed that in the wake of the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal two years ago, it had acquired other photographs that have not yet been widely seen.

The Obama White House is increasingly finding itself and its allies embroi led in controversies to do with the treatment of prisoners from George Bush's War on Terror. On Thursday, Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic Speaker of the House, took steps to defend herself against allegations that she knew for years that the US was waterboarding detainees, saying the CIA had lied to her about it.

But with his shifts on both the photographs and the tribunals, Mr Obama may be bolstering his support among moderates. He will be aware that support among the liberal left, on the other hand will be corroded. The attacks from human rights activists last night were instant.

"Everyone knows the military commissions have been a dismal failure," said Gabor Rona, a legal director for Human Rights First. "The results of the cases will be suspect around the world. It is a tragic mistake to continue them."

Under the new arrangements, the White House will ask for another 120-day delay before the tribunals are resumed to give lawyers time to implement the modifications that have been proposed by President Obama. Officials in Washington insisted last night that Mr Obama had not reversed his stance. They noted that as President, he has never explicitly ruled out continuing with the military commissions. Indeed, in 2006, Mr Obama voted against the act that instituted the commissions as they now stand, but he did, however, support an alternative bill that would have instituted a different version of the commissions. That bill had itself been tabled by a group of Republican moderates.

The President is asking for changes that would give detainees greater leeway in choosing their own defence team, protect them from court prejudice if they refuse to testify, restrict the use of hearsay in the cases against them and would ban the introduction of all evidence gleaned through cruel or inhuman treatment.

Those new safeguards are not going to quell the indignation of those who consider the commissions in any form to be a perversion of US justice. Critics will point to Mr Obama's repeated assertions that America would abandon its moral code when pursuing terror suspects at its own peril.

"It's disappointing that Obama is seeking to revive rather than end this failed experiment," said Jonathan Hafetz, a lawyer at the American Civil Liberties Union. "There's no detainee at Guantanamo who cannot be tried and shouldn't be tried in the regular federal courts system."

Obama vs Bush: How tribunals compare

DIFFERENT

*A ban on all evidence gleaned through cruel or inhumane means, including waterboarding

*More leeway for detainees to select their defence, although still restricted to military lawyers

*No prejudice against defendants if they choose not to testify

SAME

*Guantanamo to remain trial venue

*Military lawyers will still provide defence services for the detainees

*Accused will still not have access to all evidence used against them

*Detainees will still not have access to the two traditional branches of US law, the civilian court system and the Uniform Code of Military Justice

Post a Comment

View all comments that have been posted about this article.

Offensive or abusive comments will be removed and your IP logged and may be used to prevent further submission. In submitting a comment to the site, you agree to be bound by the Independent Minds Terms of Service.

Comments

US liberal base:what can we do about it? Protest.
[info]nycartist wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 11:56 pm (UTC)
Obama was the only option when running against McCain. I was for Kucinich, who is married to a woman from England, but he didn't get the Dem. nomination. The progressives in the US are getting angry.
Some good writing is online. See Glenn Greenwald's column on Salon.com www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald.
It's just one more item on the pile of Bush continued
[info]nycartist wrote:
Friday, 15 May 2009 at 11:59 pm (UTC)
Angry-making for folks who remember what the Constitutional lawyer (Obama) said in the past.
Black Bush
[info]leonard_merryl wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 12:23 am (UTC)
O'Bomber = Fail.
Fools
[info]ejh16 wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 04:06 am (UTC)
I still do not understand why Americans were so easily fooled. "Change." "Yes, we can." Just hallow words. Completely meaningless. In the US (and surely everywhere else, too) only a liar and a jerk can be elected to high office. If Kucinich, for example, has won, that would be proof that he is not the decent person so many supporters insist he is. Obama is trash just like Bush. Democrats just talk differently and they are a bit more subtle. The rest of the world should not be fooled. Do not let up the pressure on the US. Never trust an American president, even if he looks very sincere when he says, "Yes, we can."



http://theunpeople.blogspot.com/
Gates 1 Obama 0
[info]trojan_horace wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 05:49 am (UTC)
Geneva Conventions, Constitution and due process all returned to indefinite detention.. along with Obama's balls seemingly... Wonder what mechanism Gates and co' used to put them in a vice?
Bummer O'Bomber
[info]floppsiefrog wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 07:00 am (UTC)
Same crap wrapped in tinsel and flogged as 'Change you can believe in'.
THANK CHRIST TAHT OBAMA FINALLY STOP APPEASING BARBARIAN ISLAMISTS!
[info]nooraza wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 07:53 am (UTC)
Finally, Mr. Obama realized how dangerous these barbarian Islamists are! They cannot be appeased with false peace but must be dealt very firmly with justice, especially for their victims! Further, the Islamists will keep on expanding their barabarian Empire & atrocities if not stopped! These hard-left feel-good-about-themselves always seem to forgot about these Islamist barbarian victims especially women/girls & gays, due to being so discriminatorily defending the "human rights" of these barbarians!
Re: THANK CHRIST TAHT OBAMA FINALLY STOP APPEASING BARBARIAN ISLAMISTS!
[info]findempire wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 10:42 am (UTC)
Pardon me maam, have I told you lately that you are an illiterate retard? I did? So sorry, but here's some new info: You have the IQ of a grasshopper. And get this: You're an ethnic-hatemongering racist too! So how about taking a well-earned jump in a lake and giving your brain cell a rest?
Findempire: VILE ISLAMIST THUGS LIKE YOU MUST BE A PRODUCT OF THE VILE PEDOPHILE MOHAMED!
[info]nooraza wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 01:30 pm (UTC)
Primitive cavemen mentality Islamists like you should crawl into the caves, away from modern civilization, with similar illiterate Islamist retards like yourself, such as the flesh-ripping barbarians Talebans & Al-Qaedas there! Can't satand a woman speaking up to you is it, you Islamist thug, who should be the one to banish yourself from Planet Earth, where your kind of civilization don't belong! Is it any wonder, since the founder of your religion is a vile pedophile and sex maniacs who took the child-bride Aisha at 9 yeras old, along with who knows how many sexual slaves, conveniently called 'wives'!
THE AVERAGE PERSON IS FINE
[info]georgesign wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 09:31 am (UTC)
I have travelled all over the world and find that the average human being is fine. We all want the same things. To be able live peacefully with our fellow man and to be free of hunger and disease. This would be relatively easy to achieve if it wasn't for politicians, religious leaders and powerful special interest groups.

To believe a leader like Obama, or any other leader political or religious, has the interests of the average person in mind is wishful thinking.
Re: THE AVERAGE PERSON IS FINE
[info]floppsiefrog wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 10:12 am (UTC)
I agree with your sentiment, however, did you travel on a donkey burdened with a library of foreign language dictionaries in your quest for the truth, or did your awesome revelation arise from chatting to like minded passengers in crowded airport lounges? Incidentally, I believe the world's population is currently in the region of 7 billion! Well done.
Re: THE AVERAGE PERSON IS FINE
[info]georgesign wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 01:39 pm (UTC)
You are absolutely spot on. I travelled on a donkey and people placed palm leaves before me. I met so many people at one place I was asked to divide amongst the throng some fishes and loaves. Walking on water really helped to get between countries and the knack of turning wine into water was a fun diversion. No dictionaries are necessary when you talk in tongues. It's a good job I'm not religious as I would have started believing I was some sort of saviour.

You sound like a person who has more than their share of "smarts" so why not get out there and spread the word. Perhaps you could enlist say another 11 like-minded followers
You actually thought Obomber gave a flying f*** about hippy-dippy liberals?
[info]findempire wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 10:37 am (UTC)
Obomber got the job because the us military-industrial complex and Wall Street picked him. GOP Senator and Pentagon errand-boy Rick Lugar mentored him out of the Chicago boons and into the limelight, while Citigroup's chief toxic asset wizard Bob Rubin - the very guy who deregulated the shit out of the US financial system - helped him get the big Wall Street buck to pay for his campaign extravaganza. Then Lehman went bust just in time for him to beat the maverick McCain.

The crooks and warmongers ho really run Amurrika LOVE Obomber, who cares about hippy-dippy liberals?
Ari Fleischer, who was Bush's first press secretary, said Obama "should acknowledge his campaign criticisms were wrong."

"With some minor changes, he really is following the same path President Bush pursued," he said.
[info]battier wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 01:28 pm (UTC)
I don't think this will have any effect on Obama. The "liberal left" in America is interested in economic and social issues in the United States. They don't have any more interest in the detainees being held in Guantanamo than conservatives or moderates do. They want Obama to shoot the ones responsible for 9/11 and ship the rest of them to their country of origin.

Human rights activists can make all the statements and protests they want to in countries like Britain and America where that kind of thing is allowed. That doesn't mean they have any significant political influence.
A Pathetic Individual.
[info]proximaking wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 01:35 pm (UTC)
Obama's "presidency" is over.
change ? what change???
[info]ebbi581 wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 02:45 pm (UTC)
the idea of change in us politics and presidents is so absurd. the mafia system never changes but the stooges yes!!!
the federal reserve share holders have got the usa by the balls and nothing will nor can change. the mafia system selects the candidates after vetting them,making sure they will act as good servants and like a good boy does as he is told.
the idea of one president bringing change is a joke. american people better wake up and smell the coffee. there is too much interest to let a black guy become president and bring change!!!!
Triumph of the American Oligarchy
[info]ambricourt wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 03:29 pm (UTC)
Ambricourt

What naivety to expect change in a world-conquering oligarchy... The U.S. military is the most indulged and feted of militaries in the history of the world. And it would be hazardous for any President not to indulge its fantasies (fed by think-tanks) and its demands for specific procedures (as in the treatment of prisoners).
Since 1942 the whole American economy has been dedicated to satisfying the needs of the military oligarchy; and since 1949 when NATO was formed we, as taxpayers in other countries, also contribute.
Are we proud, sharing the current triumphalism of the United States, relayed to us through the U.S.-surveillanced media, that at least 2,000,000 Iraqis have been made refugees, and hundreds of thousands of peasants are displaced from traditional homelands in Afghanistan and Pakistan...
What happened to the Palestinians is becoming the model of what will happen to other helpless, undefended agrarian peoples.
Soon, the victims of American expansionism will be crouching from drones and missiles in Turkmenistan and Mongolia. And then Singkiang...
This is not war.
This is state-sponsored terrorism.
The achievements of the American oligarchy now exceed the 1930s crimes of Hitler and Stalin.
President Obama continues the military, economic and psychological takeover or the world, following in the cloven-hoof steps of his predecessors.
It means shit nothing who is in the white house. Zionist pressure groups run the world.
[info]djangovsartana wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 04:44 pm (UTC)
It means shit nothing who is in the white house. Zionist pressure groups run the world.
far left bathe in ignorance..
[info]greenhalge wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 07:52 pm (UTC)
The far left are as bad as the far right. They don't seem to have been gifted with any genes that engender deductive reasoning. They squeal like little piglets every time they don't get their way even if their way leads down a dead-end road. Huffington Post and Daily Kos scream bloody murder because that's what they are, thats how they were created and thats their identity. They were born in an era of frustration and they don't have the intelligence at the helm to make the transgression to moderation. They aren't run by leaders but by opportunists. There is no greater hypocritical opportunist than Arianna Huffington. She stands for nothing except self glorification and would wrap herself in a flor taco shell if she thought that would grow her fame as a celebrity. Unfortunately nitwits like her don't see the need to educate their base regarding the cause and effect of their positions. Hence you have the far left suckling on the teat of pop shrillness and egomania while the right stomps their stubborn feet in mud. Neither are representative of the majority of the US populace which is now more moderate on the whole than it has been since Clintons first 2 years in office.
Obama All Form--No Substance
[info]tomas999 wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 08:57 pm (UTC)
All these people at Guantanamo should be turned over to their country of orgin with the evidence we have collected on each one. If any country want to turn them loose, the world should know about their release, and all evidence should be made public. It is not United States responsibility to protect the World.
Obama works for the same people as Bush...
[info]rogerblake wrote:
Saturday, 16 May 2009 at 09:49 pm (UTC)
Both the Dem leadership and the Republic leadership answer to the private financial sector, Federal Reserve etc. They loan money to the government at interest, and OWN the government.

Those who control the money, control the world. Or, as Mayer Amschel Rothschild put it: "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes her laws."

People need to wake up and see that NOTHING EVER CHANGES FOR THE BETTER FOR THE PEOPLE NO MATTER WHO IS IN CHARGE because the people behind these front men and these parties have one agenda: Less and less freedom for us, and more power and control for them.

Obama is NOT continuing Bush's policies - he's continuing the policies of the worlds elite - i.e. Bilderberg.

Bilderberg just met in Greece these last few days - with the usual media blackout, paid for and ordered by it's members - which set the worlds agenda. Geithner attended. They are pushing Carbon Taxes this year - the biggest hoax and controlling policy in history.

Wake up and see the BIG picture - we're being conned. They're all the same. Look outside of the big media for the truth.
Are you kidding me?
[info]mariejoy wrote:
Sunday, 17 May 2009 at 03:07 pm (UTC)
President Obama, alias THE Manchurian Candidate, could bomb Hartford, CT and they'd forgive him.

Apathetic, dumbed-down, tv watching Americans don't know their enemies when they're snuggeled up next to them in bed. The Most corrupt (and that's going some) president and congress in the history of America and we're so stupid, we love them all (except the very crooked Dodd and Lieberman).

GAYS ARE NO WHERE EVEN IF OBAMA IS WITH THEM PART 1
[info]famulla wrote:
Monday, 18 May 2009 at 07:31 pm (UTC)
According to recent surveys, somewhere between 79 and 92 percent of Americans believe in God. But if the responses to my column on Terry Eagleton's "Faith, Reason and Revolution" constitute a representative sample, 95 percent of Times readers don't. What they do believe, apparently, is that religion is a fairy tale, hogwash, balderdash, nonsense and a device for rationalizing horrible deeds.
Of course, there is more than name-calling to their antitheism; there are arguments, and the one most often made insists on a sharp distinction between religion and science, or, alternatively, between faith and reason. . . Reader Comment: "Science rests on this particular article of faith: the universe contains regularities, and human beings, through sense experience and reason, are capable of finding
candidates for these regularities, and then testing them to see how they mesh with experience. I have no quarrel with religion, but I have a quarrel with particular adherents of some religions, who deny that there are regularities, or that the tests of such regularities give meaningful results. . . ." - Posted by mathprof, May 18, 12:25 a.m.
If God were to talk we would first eliminate the Gays as the God has said Go Forth and Multiply. This only possible when the man and women mate and have sex planting the sperms. This is impossible for man and man. God never said he Camel must mate he camel to have small babies. We talk of bees and butterflies when we explain the children the life cycle and sex in the softest manner.
The West Bromwich building society yesterday said it had a "long-term future as an independent", adding it had "no knowledge" of reports that the UK regulator was looking to sell it off.
I agree to all anyone says these days. I do not have to pat for this. However, I think they are crazy
I thank you
Firozali A.Mulla

GAYS ARE NO WHERE EVEN IF OBAMA IS WITH THEM PART 2
[info]famulla wrote:
Monday, 18 May 2009 at 07:32 pm (UTC)
The Holy Quran describes the story of Prophet Noah (peace be on him), his building of the Ark, the people who joined him and the Flood in detail. The water started gushing out from a particular oven, followed by a large number of other springs as well as a heavy downpour from the sky. The following is note 46 to the verse 44 of Surah Hud 11 in A. A. Maududi's text, "Towards Understanding the Quran", vol. IV, pp. 102-4. Page 103 has the map of the Land of Noah's people and Mount Judi.
Mount Judi is situated to the north-east of the Island of Ibn 'Umar in Kurdistan. According to the Bible, the Ark's resting place was Ararat, which is the name of a particular mountain as well as of a whole range of mountains in Armenia. Ararat, in the sense of a mountain range, extends from the Armenian plateau to southern Kurdistan. The mount called Judi is part of this range and is known even today by the same name. In ancient historical accounts, Mount Judi is mentioned as the place where the Ark rested. Around 250 B.C., a Babylonian priest, Berasus, wrote a history of his country based on Chaldean traditions. He mentions Judi as the resting-place of Noah's Ark. The history written by Abydenus, a disciple of Aristotle, also corroborates this. Abydenus further remarks that many people in Mesopotamia possessed pieces of the Ark which they used as a charm. They ground those pieces in water and gave the preparation to the sick so as to cure them of their ailments.
In connection with this great incident one is also faced with the question of whether the Flood was universal or whether it was limited to the area inhabited by the people of Noah. This question remains unanswered to this day. Under the influence of Israelite traditions, it is believed that it was a universal Flood (Genesis 7: 18-24). The Qur'an, however, does not explicitly say so. There are several allusions in the Qur'an which indicate that subsequent generations of mankind are the descendants of those who were saved from the Flood. But that does not necessarily mean that the Flood covered the whole world. For, it is quite plausible that at that point in history the human population was confined only to the area which was overtaken by the Flood, and that those born after the Flood gradually dispersed to other parts of the world. This view is supported by two things. Firstly, ancient historical traditions, archaeological discoveries and geological data provide evidence that a great flood took place at some period in the distant past in the Tigris-Euphrates region. There is no such evidence for a universal flood. Secondly, traditions about a great flood have been popular among all communities of the world down the ages. Such traditions are found even in the folklore of such distant regions as Australia, America and New Guinea. One may thus conclude that at some time in the past the ancestors of all these communities lived together in some region which was overtaken by the Flood. Since presumably their descendants subsequently dispersed to, and settled down in, different parts of the world, they transmitted and preserved the traditions of this great Flood.
I thank you
Firozali A.Mulla

GAYS ARE NO WHERE EVEN IF OBAMA IS WITH THEM PART 3
[info]famulla wrote:
Monday, 18 May 2009 at 07:33 pm (UTC)
Go multiply in other words means man and woman not Gays Gay do not give babies.
This same paper says sometime back
Attenborough: Genesis? It can go forth and multiply
The Bible is to blame for devastation of the planet, says Sir David Attenborough
By Steve Connor, Science editor
He has romped with gorillas, turned his back on grizzly bears and found himself knee-deep in suffocating bat dung. After decades of getting to know the furthest-flung corners of the world ? and its inhabitants ? Sir David Attenborough has vented his ire on the Bible for promoting the belief that man has complete dominion over the Earth.
Sir David, probably the best-loved broadcaster and certainly the most distinguished television naturalist, has blamed the Book of Genesis for many environmental problems, from the burning down of tropical rainforests to the extinction of species.
On the eve of a BBC1 documentary on the life of Charles Darwin and his theory of evolution, Sir David has criticised the centuries-old idea running through the Judaeo-Christian tradition which assumes God gave the Earth to man to exploit and use in whatever way he saw fit in order to populate the world.
"You will surely find out who will suffer a shameful
retribution, and incur an everlasting punishment."
[11:40]
When our judgment came, and the atmosphere boiled over, we said, "Carry on it a pair of each kind,* together with your family, except those who are condemned. Carry with
you those who have believed," and only a few have believed with him.
[11:41] He said, "Come on board. In the name of GOD shall be its sailing, and its mooring. My Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful."
[11:42] As it sailed with them in waves like hills, Noah called his son, who was isolated: "O my son, come ride with us; do not be with the disbelievers."
[11:43] He said, "I will take refuge on top of a hill, to protect me from the water." He said, "Nothing can protect anyone today from GOD's judgment; only those worthy of His mercy (will be saved)." The waves separated them, and he was among those who drowned.
GAYS ARE NO WHERE EVEN IF OBAMA IS WITH THEM PART 4
[info]famulla wrote:
Monday, 18 May 2009 at 07:34 pm (UTC)
30. "And O my people! Who will help me against Allâh, if I drove them away? Will you not then give a thought?
31. "And I do not say to you that with me are the Treasures of Allâh, "Nor that I know the Ghaib (unseen); "nor do I say I am an angel, and I do not say of those whom your eyes look down upon that Allâh will not bestow any good on them. Allâh knows what is in their inner-selves (as regards belief, etc.). In that case, I should, indeed be one of the Zâlimûn (wrong-doers, oppressors, etc.)."
32. They said: "O Nûh (Noah)! You have disputed with us and much have you prolonged the dispute with us, now bring upon us what you threaten us with, if you are of the truthful."
33. He said: "Only Allâh will bring it (the punishment) on you, if He will, and then you will escape not.
34. "And my advice will not profit you, even if I wish to give you good counsel, if Allâh's Will is to keep you astray. He is your Lord! and to Him you shall return."
35. Or they (the pagans of Makkah) say: "He (Muhammad ) has fabricated it (the Qur'ân)." Say: "If I have fabricated it, upon me be my crimes, but I am innocent of (all) those crimes which you commit."
36. And it was inspired to Nûh (Noah): "None of your people will believe except those who have believed already. So be not sad because of what they used to do.
37. "And construct the ship under Our Eyes and with Our Inspiration, and address Me not on behalf of those who did wrong; they are surely to be drowned."
38. And as he was constructing the ship, whenever the chiefs of his people passed by him, they made a mockery of him. He said: "If you mock at us, so do we mock at you likewise for your mocking.
39. "And you will know who it is on whom will come a torment that will cover him with disgrace and on whom will fall a lasting torment."
40. (So it was) till then there came Our Command and the oven gushed forth (water like fountains from the earth). We said: "Embark therein, of each kind two (male and female), and your family, except him against whom the Word has already gone forth, and those who believe. And none believed with him, except a few."
41. And he [Nûh (Noah)] said: "Embark therein, in the Name of Allâh will be its moving course and its resting anchorage. Surely, my Lord is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Tafsir At-Tabarî, Vol. 12, Page 43)
42. So it (the ship) sailed with them amidst the waves like mountains, and Nûh (Noah) called out to his son, who had separated himself (apart), "O my son! Embark with us and be not with the disbelievers."
43. The son replied: "I will betake myself to a mountain, it will save me from the water." Nûh (Noah) said: "This day there is no saviour from the Decree of Allâh except him on whom He has mercy." And a wave came in between them, so he (the son) was among the drowned.
44. And it was said: "O earth! Swallow up your water, and O sky! Withhold (your rain)." And the water was diminished (made to subside) and the Decree (of Allâh) was fulfilled (i.e. the destruction of the people of Nûh (Noah). And it (the ship) rested on Mount Judi, and it was said: "Away with the people who are Zalimûn (polytheists and wrong-doing)!"
45. And Nûh (Noah) called upon his Lord and said, "O my Lord! Verily, my son is of my family! And certainly, Your Promise is true, and You are the Most Just of the judges."
I thank you
Firozali A.Mulla
GAYS ARE NO WHERE EVEN IF OBAMA IS WITH THEM PART 5
[info]famulla wrote:
Monday, 18 May 2009 at 07:35 pm (UTC)
God Talk, Part 2
NEW YOKK TIMES
According to recent surveys, somewhere between 79 and 92 percent of Americans believe in God. But if the responses to my column on Terry Eagleton's "Faith, Reason and Revolution" constitute a representative sample, 95 percent of Times readers don't. What they do believe, apparently, is that religion is a fairy tale, hogwash, balderdash, nonsense and a device for rationalizing horrible deeds.
Of course, there is more than name-calling to their antitheism; there are arguments, and the one most often made insists on a sharp distinction between religion and science, or, alternatively, between faith and reason. . . Reader Comment: "Science rests on this particular article of faith: the universe contains regularities, and human beings, through sense experience and reason, are capable of finding
candidates for these regularities, and then testing them to see how they mesh with experience. I have no quarrel with religion, but I have a quarrel with particular adherents of some religions, who deny that there are regularities, or that the tests of such regularities give meaningful results. . . ." - Posted by mathprof, May 18, 12:25 a.m.
If God were to talk we would first eliminate the Gays as the God has said Go Forth and Multiply. This only possible when the man and women mate and have sex planting the sperms. This is impossible for man and man. God never said he Camel must mate he camel to have small babies. We talk of bees and butterflies when we explain the children the life cycle and sex in the softest manner.
The West Bromwich building society yesterday said it had a "long-term future as an independent", adding it had "no knowledge" of reports that the UK regulator was looking to sell it off.
I agree to all anyone says these days. I do not have to pat for this. However, I think they are crazy
I thank you
Firozali A.Mulla


Article Archive

Day In a Page

Sun | Mon | Tue | Wed | Thu | Fri | Sat

Select date