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In Pakistan, an exodus that is beyond biblical

Locals sell all they have to help millions displaced by battles with the Taliban

By Andrew Buncombe

Saima is one of 37 refugees now sharing the house of a stranger. Their host, Rizwan Ali, 59, says: 'It would be easier to die than to ask displaced people to leave for the camps'

World Vision

Saima is one of 37 refugees now sharing the house of a stranger. Their host, Rizwan Ali, 59, says: 'It would be easier to die than to ask displaced people to leave for the camps'

The language was already biblical; now the scale of what is happening matches it. The exodus of people forced from their homes in Pakistan's Swat Valley and elsewhere in the country's north-west may be as high as 2.4 million, aid officials say. Around the world, only a handful of war-spoiled countries – Sudan, Iraq, Colombia – have larger numbers of internal refugees. The speed of the displacement at its height – up to 85,000 people a day – was matched only during the 1994 genocide in Rwanda. This is now one of the biggest sudden refugee crises the world has ever seen.

Until now, the worst of the problem has been kept largely out of sight. Of the total displaced by the military's operations against the Taliban – the army yesterday claimed a crucial breakthrough, taking control of the Swat Valley's main town, Mingora – just 200,000 people have been forced to live in the makeshift tent camps dotted around the southern fringe of the conflict zone. The vast majority were taken in by relatives, extended family members and local people wanting to help.

But this grassroots sense of charity is slowly starting to show real strain. In a week when the relentless danger of the militants was underlined by a massive car bomb in the city of Lahore that killed at least 30 people and injured hundreds more, aid groups have warned that the communities taking people in – already some of the planet's poorest people – could themselves be displaced as they desperately sell their few assets to help the homeless.

In these "homestay" situations, some that exist purely because of tribal links between the displaced and those opening their doors, anywhere from 10 to 15 people are crowded into one room. A single latrine is shared by, on average, 35 people. Aid groups have called for a large and immediate injection of funds to help these host families who have stood forward to help those with nothing.

Graham Strong, the country director of the charity World Vision, said: "Families have provided refuge for up to 90 per cent of those escaping the fighting. They are sharing their homes, food, clothes and water. They are poor already and are making themselves poorer in the process. As the disaster continues, hosts are having to sell their land, cattle and other assets at far less than the market value to keep providing for their guests. The cultural ethic of generosity and hospitality means hosts are now facing the agonising choice between asking guests to leave and becoming destitute and displaced themselves."

Among those facing possible destitution as a result of his kindness is Rizwan Ali, 59, who lives in a village in the Buner district – another of the areas from which the military has been involved in a major operation against militants. When he heard about the countless people from nearby villages being forced to flee, he sent a truck to collect them. Now he shares his home with 37 strangers.

Confronted with this massive influx, Mr Ali – not his real name – has already sold a portion of his land to meet the additional burden. He has watched as other villagers, taking people in, have been pushed to the brink of impoverishment. He says they now face having to ask their guests to leave – something he would be loathe to do.

"It would be easier to die than to ask displaced people to leave for the camps. It will be heartbreaking and will feel as though the earth has caved in on us," said Mr Ali, who is already helping to look after the newborn baby of his daughter-in-law, who died in childbirth. "I'm exhausted, we have to play so many roles – host, provider, security, breadwinner," he told aid workers.

Confronted by such circumstances, many of the host families of Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) have been selling cattle at a mere fraction of their normal value to raise funds. Others are pawning gold and jewellery for as little as 5 per cent of what it would usually generate. Certainly, those who arrived came with nothing, depending entirely on the generosity of their hosts.

"Our host has done a beautiful thing in taking us in and providing for us," said one man staying at Mr Ali's house. "He has given us food and shelter but most of all he has given us our dignity."

One man, aged 90, said that because there had been no warning to leave, when the gunfire erupted around them they gathered what they could carry and fled. "Many of us didn't even have any shoes. We walked [13 miles] on mountain paths. It took the whole day," he said.

Another of those staying with Mr Ali is 12-year-old Saima. "I don't know where my friends are. We were separated when we left," said the young girl, who is helping to care for the household's newborn baby. "It was scary when we ran. It was like my heart was beating in my feet as we ran. There was a time I couldn't walk another inch because of ulcers under my feet, but the fear kept us going somehow."

For all the humanitarian problems that the military operation against the Taliban has created, the Pakistani army and the government of Asif Ali Zardari believe they have no alternative but to carry on and try to crush the militants, who had taken control of several areas barely 60 miles from Islamabad. Under considerable international pressure, the military launched the operations earlier this month after a controversial ceasefire deal – under which the government allowed the operation of Islamic law, or sharia, in parts of the Swat Valley and elsewhere – fell apart.

The military claimed a strategic victory yesterday, saying it had taken control of almost all of Mingora. While troops were still meeting pockets of resistance on the outskirts of the town, Mingora itself was under the full control of the military, said a spokesman, Maj- Gen Athar Abbas. "As far as Mingora city, security forces have taken over," he said. "There are still pockets of resistance. They are on the periphery of Mingora city."

In addition to the humanitarian problem, of course, the military operation – which it claims has so far killed anywhere up to 1,100 militants – has already apparently led the Taliban into revenge attacks. After militants launched a gun and bomb attack on police and intelligence offices in Lahore last week, a spokesman for Baitullah Mehsud, one of the senior Taliban leaders, claimed responsibility and said the devastating attack – the third major incident in the Punjabi capital this year – had been carried out in response to what has been happening in Swat. The Taliban also threatened more attacks, raising the prospect of a fresh wave of suicide attacks in Pakistan's major cities. The following day, at least 14 people were killed in suicide bombings in Peshawar.

Hakimullah Mehsud, a commander loyal to his namesake, told reporters: "We have achieved our target. We were looking at this target for a long time. It was a reaction to the Swat operation. We want the people of Lahore, Rawalpindi, Islamabad and Multan to leave those cities as we plan major attacks against government facilities in coming days."

Yesterday, Pakistan's Prime Minister, Yousuf Gilani, defended the decision to launch the offensive, saying that the authorities had no genuine alternative.

"The very existence of Pakistan was at stake. We had to start the operation," he said. While speaking to workers at state-owned Pakistan Television, Mr Gilani also promised payments of cash to help the hundreds of thousands of people forced from their homes, as well as a massive reconstruction.

Such words, had they learned of them, would have been welcome to Rizwan Ali and the 37 people – strangers until this military operation began – squeezed into his home.

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Even more reason to obliterate radical Islam
[info]richardm30 wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 12:01 am (UTC)
Here we have a group of men, of generally poor intelligence and whose only education has been done in Madrases where nodding, like demented parrots, they learn from a book of Hate from the dark ages. These worthless, bearded Islamic men are causing misery on an almost unprecedented scale and they only know how to destroy never to create.

Jealous of the technological and economic superiority of the West, they like to throw acid in the faces of female schoolchildren or throw grenades into girls schools. Their ideology should be fought at every level - a first step would be to close ALL Madrases in Pakistan. A second step is to improve dramatically women's right. A third, and perhaps the most important step, is to obliterate the Taliban. We have already had considerable success using remote control drones. Their philosophy is so evil, so pernicious that none of them must be left alive. There is no chance of reform of these animals. They are too far gone - too infected with their religion. Their philosophy should be banned in a similar way we banned the NAZI's after WWII. These "people" are worse than any NAZI - so why are we pussyfooting about?

Despite the fact that that their acts are visible for all to see (as in the refugees fleeing the region) we will have Muslim apologists and trendy lefties blaming the west! The post will start coming in from the usual demented Islamists saying "it's the fault of the West", "Islam is a peaceful religion" (and where is their evidence for saying THAT statement). The lefties will start complaining about drone attacks and the killing of innocent people without any reference to the use of women and children as human shields by the Taliban. Now there is an irony if there ever was one.

I can only point readers to the following web site which details the daily death toll caused by Islam. Religion of peace? Yeah, and the NAZI's believed in medical ethics.

www.thereligionofpeace.com

Now the war has started it should absolutely not stop until all the objectives are reached - just as we did this in WWII!
Re: Even more reason to obliterate radical Islam
[info]rez1214 wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 12:29 am (UTC)
richard,

youre an ignorant fool.

Drones achieving considerable success? Are you for real?, Before you start spouting your wisdom on issues you only have second hand biased knowledge of, try thinking on a more macro level about the problems out there. Try thinking about 99% of the rest of pakistani MUSLIMS who oppose the taleban, and who have to deal with the horrific consequences of this war.

And lets get this straight - the west has quite a lot to be responsible for here. Stop bloody invading other people countries and perhaps you wont have these so-called 'uneducated, unintelligent savages' to deal with.

You plonker. Go take a history lesson.
Re: Even more reason to obliterate radical Islam - [info]shiatilam - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 12:58 am (UTC) Expand
Hey copycat sex maniac Islamist, get a life! - [info]nooraza - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 06:38 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Hey copycat sex maniac Islamist, get a life! - [info]copycat7 - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 08:29 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Even more reason to obliterate radical Islam - [info]swampyjonks - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 06:54 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Even more reason to obliterate radical Islam - [info]richardm30 - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 07:34 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Even more reason to obliterate radical Islam - [info]copycat7 - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 08:48 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Even more reason to obliterate radical Islam - [info]copycat7 - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 06:20 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Even more reason to obliterate radical Islam - [info]safwan09 - Monday, 1 June 2009 at 04:36 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Even more reason to obliterate radical Islam - [info]kuma2000 - Monday, 1 June 2009 at 10:43 am (UTC) Expand
It's getting very ugly
[info]red_planet92 wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 12:42 am (UTC)
It's getting very ugly; I'm still worried about those nuclear weapons. I hope this mess doesn't spread to Bangladesh.
Re: It's getting very ugly
[info]sayhowitis wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 07:40 pm (UTC)
This whole hysteria about Pakistans nuclear weapons failing into the "wrong hands" is laughable at best. If poeple think a few (even if in there 1000s) nutters with AK-47s can defeat the sixth largest army in the world that is always in the state of readiness (thanks to India) then i recommend they find out what the ground reality is before just picking up what is being said over the airways. I mean are we to think India's nuclear weapons are already in the wrong hands when an Indian army colonel was involved in terrosrist acts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prasad_Shrikant_Purohit) against muslims. I don't know what the media seek in spreading such headlines when even the US concede that an American take-over of Pakistans nuclear weapons is impossible (http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/RL34248.pdf ) then what chance do the TTP have! The command and control system in place is so locked down and on a need to know basis that even Benazir Bhutto was not allowed to know the locations and visit the nuclear sites when she was prime minister and the media make it out to be that the nukes are stored in some kind of garden shed without a padlock.
muslims really cant win here
[info]isa2121 wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 01:29 am (UTC)
Even when muslims are the victims, islam is vilified - and despite the fact that most muslims abhor the taleban, there will always be racists like richard who parrot the BNP line that ISLAM is a NAZI ideology that should be banned...a fascist statement indeed. Now there my friend, is an IRONY if ever there was one!
And the notion that the Taleben act the way they do because they are jealous of the technological superiority of the west is just soooo laughable...but it does throw light on your lack of perspective, comprehension, awareness, context and dare i say intelligence.
Even more derisory is your 3 point plan to SAVE Pakistan. 1) ?close all madrassahs? ...resorting to stereotypical prejudices about madrassahs where children ?nod like demented parrots learning from a book of hate? isn?t really helpful...in fact, it?s quite racist. Most children in rural areas learn to read and write in madrassahs; closing these down would be counterproductive, a concept even the most myopic idiot can?t fail to see. 2) ?Improving women?s rights? ... *sigh* here you go again with ure mind-numbing idiocy. Men and women have equal rights under Pakistani law; if you meant improving the status of women in the eyes of the taleban, then perhaps making them aware of the principles enshrined in Islamic law would improve the state of women in Pakistan. In contrast to what you might have gathered from BNP.org.uk, islam isn?t anti-woman. Might I direct your attention to http://www.islamfortoday.com/women.htm#Rights to see this for yourself.
your third suggestion is just so stupid, so utterly naive, I?m tempted to think that your whole post is a joke. Obliterating the taleban is indeed an admirable goal, but how would one go about doing this? America has spent 7 years and billions of dollars trying to rid Afghanistan of the taleban - to no avail. Perhaps in your reply post, you can leave your contact details so the American govt cant contact you to hire your services; certainly, the blasé manner in which you suggested eradicating the taleban implies that you know something the rest of us don?t... so please, do tell...
I would like to agree with rez, that your vitriolic post is nothing more than the product of ignorance...but you?re too transparent - a hate monger masquerading as a concerned citizen.
Re: muslims really cant win here
[info]richardm30 wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 07:51 am (UTC)
And we ALL know how good Muslims are are playing the victim, don't we? The biggest victims of Islamic fanaticism are Muslims themselves. Muslims kill far more muslims than anyone else. It seems strange, doesn't it - that the only religion that is constantly at war with all other religions (as well as freedom and rationality) is Islam. Men and women have equal rights under Pakistan law do they? REALLY? Honour killings by the hundreds still occur - IN SPITE of the law. That is a nice little Islamic tradition, isn't it. Oppression of women occurs on an everyday basis. And by the way I am not a member of the BNP - why is it the likes of you always bring the BNP (or Israel) into the argument? Ordinary people in the UK and sick and tired of hearing about contrived "Muslim" Anger" or "Muslim grievances". The BNP are making political mileage out of this - unfortunately for the rest of us. And, in case you hadn't noticed, Afghanistanis now have a better quality of life than they ever did under the Taliban masters. But again, Muslims will find a way to become the victim. It is so easy to dismiss people as being "Hate-filled" - Muslims have used that tactic for years in the UK -BUT IT DOESN"T WORK ANYMORE!



Re: muslims really cant win here - [info]copycat7 - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 08:57 am (UTC) Expand
Re: muslims really cant win here - [info]mohammedbari20 - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 10:29 am (UTC) Expand
Re: muslims really cant win here - [info]richardm30 - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 01:20 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: muslims really cant win here - [info]mohammedbari20 - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 02:06 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: muslims really cant win here - [info]copycat7 - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 02:06 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: muslims really cant win here - [info]isa2121 - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 04:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: muslims really cant win here - [info]copycat7 - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 06:18 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: muslims really cant win here - [info]copycat7 - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 08:47 am (UTC) Expand
an exodus that is beyond biblical
[info]alykhansatchu wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 04:03 am (UTC)
If you were fighting an insurgent, aysmettric war, the displacement of 2.5m People would surely be near enough optimal to your cause?
Aly-Khan Satchu
www.rich.co.ke
Twitter alykhansatchu
Re: an exodus that is beyond biblical
[info]dogpooonshu wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 08:55 am (UTC)
..now now children... ultimately the bigger question here that begs answering is this: "so what can we do to help these poor people in Pakistan who are struggling in intolerable conditions.... answer.. put your hands in your pockets and give what you can kind people, irrespective of gender, creed, religion, bla bla bla.. just give what you can eh, and stop squabbling for a minute, ok, now go out and play like good children....
The Indy finally smells the coffee
[info]findempire wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 08:41 am (UTC)
I've been screaming my head off here about this human catastrophe, which according to the UN is the world's biggest refugee crisis since Rwanda, for over a week. The Independent, being the faithful voice of the Yank stooge Zardari, waited until the Pak military could hold up a tangible "victory" to show for all this mass butchery and misery to "announce" that there are 2.4 million refugees.

The Pak military "conquered" Mingora by making a deal with the Taliban allowing them to retreat to the mountains, where they will regroup for guerrilla war, turning Swat into a permanent war zone, should the Pak army insist on staying there. Not only will the relatively prosperous Swat Valley be lost to Pakistan forever and its inhabitants become permanently displaced (if they survive) but terrorist attacks against high-value targets like the one against the Islamabad Marriott and the ISI HQ in Lahore will multiply.

Zardari has stuck a big, clumsy stick in the hornet's nest. Pakistan is brimming with Jihadis and Yank-haters and now the Pak army, on Obomber's orders, has gone and bombed thousands of Swat Valley civilians and driven 2.5 million of them out of their homes, joining in on Obomber's ongoing killer drone slaughter of Waziristan civilians. This is a country that was held together with sticky tape and gum at the best of times; it needs this civil war like a hole in the head. For all intents and purposes, Pakistan is finished.
"Exodus" doesn't even begin to describe it
[info]findempire wrote:
Monday, 1 June 2009 at 01:09 pm (UTC)
As the Indy continued to snooze, mumbling about Tiananmen and the British cannon fodder sacrificed for Washington's insane war on the Pashtuns, the Swat refugee figure went up another million: 3.4 MILLION!
There are now, according to the Pakistani government, 3.4 million people displaced by the fighting.

Nobody knows how many the Pak army butchered. Just look at how Pak jets bombed Mingora and Buner:
MINGORA

(AP photo)
BUNER

A Pakistani boy walks through the rubble of houses destroyed in an air strike in Sultanwas village, in Buner district, Pakistan, on Wednesday, May 27, 2009. One mile ahead, Taliban fighters patrol the streets in pickups and warn locals not to cooperate with the army, while down the road, villagers pick their way though bombed out homes and mosques, seething with anger at the government. (AP Photo/Emilio Morenatti)

(AP Photo/Emilio Morenatti)
Pakistan Invades Itself
[info]cryptonemesis wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 09:01 am (UTC)
Who has made Pakistan invade itself with an old-fashioned army designed to fight another army (India) with tanks, heavy artillery and frontal assault?

The answer lies near the trailers in Bagram airbase where the MQ9 Reapers are controlled from.
Re: Pakistan Invades Itself
[info]avadu wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 10:06 am (UTC)
Its a truly depressing situation but is the price Pakistan has to pay for its embrace of Saudi money and the Wahabism that comes with it.
Good reasoning Now let us have actions.
[info]famulla wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 11:19 am (UTC)
Even more reason to obliterate radical Islam
richardm30 wrote:
Good reasoning Now let us have actions.
The fire is fine; the engines are good the smoke gives cancer and we have no cure for these. We can go to Iraq for oil but how do we get the smoke out from the chimneys?
I thank you
Firozali A.Mulla
The Indy finally smells the coffee..findempire wrote:
[info]famulla wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 11:23 am (UTC)
I've been screaming my head off here about this human catastrophe, which according to the UN is the world's biggest refugee crisis since Rwanda, for over a week.
findempire wrote:
How can you think when your head is on the grave stone
I do not read you I need new testacles. Two glasses on the eyes and the Chianes frames
I thank you
Firozali A.Mulla
The price of Muslim energyl
[info]floppsiefrog wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 12:06 pm (UTC)
This is all part and parcel of America's attempt to seize control of energy resources in the Middle East and Central Asia and, since the window of opportunity is closing, the carnage will escalate. The next step, unless the Chinese dumb the dollar, is bound to be Iran.
Missing the point!
[info]stuartc44 wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 01:14 pm (UTC)
Its been amusing reading its all the its the Wests fault followed by its all about Islam.

However is it not a case of Pakistan trying to put the genie it created back in the bottle? I think you will find that while the West may have armed the Mujahideen the money came from other good Muslims, like the Saudi's. America being a good capitalist country didn't supply the tools for free! Pakistan then left them to it as it suited their interests, thus the problem that they have progressed to the Taliban, been augmented by radical arabs, and now bite the hand that helped feed them!

And sorry folks but you tend to find that uneducated oppressed people are easier to turn into human bombs and cannon fodder based on religious texts..... If America sat at home and wasn't involved in Pakistan the place would still be on fire as they would just be fighting each other for another reason. If you haven't noticed the tribes have been fighting and slaughtering off and on since the dawn of time.... way before the west was involved.

Re: Missing the point!
[info]richardm30 wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 01:36 pm (UTC)
Oh could not agree more. But it seems these uncomfortable facts are irrelevant to Muslims such is their desire to portray themselves as victims. Wherever Islam is involved there will be conflict and suppression of human rights, it is as simple as that.
Re: Missing the point! - [info]copycat7 - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 02:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Missing the point! - [info]stuartc44 - Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 03:39 pm (UTC) Expand
Very few Muslims want peace and integration.
[info]collin_brown wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 03:02 pm (UTC)
Why are we ordered to embrace multiculturalism when it clearly doesn't work?

An unusually unbiased BBC video report below.

http://tinyurl.com/nc8oe3
Biblical
[info]gayanwalla wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 04:07 pm (UTC)
Not being pedantic, but should it not say Koranic?
Our beliefs are accidental.
[info]colin7 wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 04:31 pm (UTC)
I'm an atheist, and blame religion for many of the problems facing the world today.
Religion is pushed into people's heads when they are young. It is like being hypnotized.
I would be a Muslim today if I had been born and raised in Pakistan, or Aghanistan, or Iran.
if I had been born and raised in Ireland I would surely be a Catholic, believing all the nonsense that Catholics believe. If I had been raised in a Utah Mormon community, today I would probably be a devout Mormon.
But nobody tried to indoctrinate me, and my community was not a religious one, so I grew up happily without religion, and don't believe gods exist.
If we stopped to consider this, that a Christian is a Christian because he was raised that way, and a Muslim is a Muslim because he was raised that way, and if they had been swapped at birth - each would be arguing the other's point of view today.
If you believe this point to be true, then you should see that your religious belief is an accident, as is the other guy's. Whoever you are - if raised in a different culture your beliefs would be different.
So why fight each other? All religions are lies anyway. As far as we know there are no gods and never were.
The Drones of Death
[info]ambricourt wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 05:10 pm (UTC)
Ambricourt

American gold spills the blood of lesser nations: and today every nation, except the U.S., is "lesser", its leaders willing to be paid in petro-dollars. (The gold stays safe in Fort Knox.)

Americans operate the MQ9 drones stationed at the Soviet-built Bagram airbase in Afghanistan: electronics kill defenceless tribal peoples, allegedly infiltrated by Taliban, over the border in Pakistan.

And other Pakistanis - peasants with basic military skills under the command of British-trained officers from privileged families - provide the flesh that's been bought. They come onto the scene with long-range artillery after the drones have terrified millions of unarmed civilians into flight and homelessness.

Forget the fictions of murderous Taliban and Islamic terrorists: these are the inventions of Hollywood scenarists co-opted by the U.S.government to justify their occupation of another part of the world.

Since 1945 the crimes of American expansionism, supported always by the U.K., exceed by far the 1930's collective crimes of Hitler, Franco, Mussolini and Stalin. They were mere amateurs playing with fire-crackers: today's world-rulers are single-minded conscienceless professionals dealing instantaneous death from afar to impoverished innocents.
Re: The Drones of Death
[info]stuartc44 wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 06:01 pm (UTC)
If it wasn't America it would be someone else..... name a time in history where the strong havent made the weak suffer. During the years 700-1800AD Islam did a pretty good job itself. Wait another 50-100 years and you will be able to write the same about the Chinese..... only then, the internet will blocked because it might tell the people the truth!

Not an anti Islamic rant just the truth. Lets all blame the West because without it the world would be a peaceful place.... eh no! The area has always been at war and always will be, just the bad guy will change; from local warlord to Super Power..... the people will suffer.

No solution so dont look for one.
Quran and not Koran But you have not read oh the knowgeable Gyan
[info]famulla wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 05:11 pm (UTC)
gayanwalla wrote:Not being pedantic, but should it not say Koranic?
gayanwalla I am paperwala.
Without malice to anyone. I speak for my self and no group. I am drunk and full of hope of faith from Devine my master Mr Tony Blaire I adore him when he is not around. I mean I can only miss if he is not in? He is the greatest. No one will forget him No one will forgive him. And I thought that to forgive is divine. But him. No Niighhh
Quran and not Koran But you have not read oh the knowledgeable Gyan
I agree to all the comments. What is the point in me being left out? I say Muslims do not stand a chance I am a Muslim Give us some chance. We repeat 7/7 after asking that too in pen in Northern Poles. Under the moon and the stars. We can hear like owls and we do not monkey around. I promise we will create fun for all.
When do I start? Gyan you with me?
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla
ALL NEED FOOD IN THESE HARSH TIMES
[info]famulla wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 05:16 pm (UTC)
I need Bhuto please she was pretty
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla
Re: ALL NEED FOOD IN THESE HARSH TIMES
[info]rez1214 wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 06:46 pm (UTC)
best comment of the thread so far:

'Grow a pair mate!'

:-)
Re: ALL NEED FOOD IN THESE HARSH TIMES - [info]famulla - Monday, 1 June 2009 at 05:20 am (UTC) Expand
Terrorism or Counterterrorism ?
[info]axilar wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 07:23 pm (UTC)
Western countries have a long history of hypocrisy in the use of force. The British for example during it's colonizing period considered force used against the "natives" benevolence, counterforce used by the natives the British considered terrorism. When Rome invaded the Iberian penninsula they forced the "natives" to work in their own mines to send the goods back to Rome. When natives ambushed Roman columns Roman soldiers no doubt considered such attacks terrorism. But who introduced military terrorism to this region ? Rome. To enslaved minds the Roman soldier was an object of fear and dread, or terror. What option had Rome left the natives to rid themselves of their presence ? Only one force. If the United States were invaded and it's regime changed their would be millions of American guerrilla fighters. Throughout history much of what politicians and generals call terrorism is actually counterterrorism, a reaction to military terrorism.
The Drones sof Death
[info]ambricourt wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 08:57 pm (UTC)
Ambricourt

Well said, axilar! How important it is to raise the spectre of Hypocrisy in today's world of flexible moral standards.

And thank you, stuartc44, for you biased historical overview. (Why pick on Islamic expansionism when you have Portugal, Spain, France and the U.K. over the past 500 years to choose from? And these countries all contributed, directly or indirectly, to make the Superpower that rules the world today. The U.K., incidentally, "pioneered" the use of bombing to terrorize potentially dissident tribes in Iraq and India in the 1920s: it was a low-cost way to preserve colonies and protectorates: not least, it gave a job for the "boys" of the RAF, just as Britain's membership of NATO does today. Without the bombing ordered by Lord Trenchard in 1921-22, the government would have disbanded the RAF as expensive and non-functional.)

Sadly, humanity has always indulged in war; but communications today hold the possibility for limiting war. Either we connect human rights to all peoples, including hill-tribes, or we are moral hypocrites.

A Superpower, claiming a tradition of humane values, must continually apply those values; else, its own moral hypocrisy will destroy it slowly from within; it will live only by the consent of its oligarchy, the military and financial oligarchs predominant. This is the sad evolution of the United States.

Did Any of the Islamophobes Actually Read the Article?
[info]j_p_allen wrote:
Sunday, 31 May 2009 at 10:18 pm (UTC)
Would any of us in the West take 39 people fleeing war or disaster into our house? Would you sell off your land and property just to provide hospitality to strangers? Of course we wouldn't. We would demand that someone else do something about all the poor people and the refugees- the lefties would complain about the lack of government response and the rightists would grouse about how the poor should have known better and they're lazy anyway. But these 'worthless, bearded Islamic men' are sacrificing everything they have to provide for strangers fleeing war and destruction, because they believe God would have them love the stranger and the refugee.

The first time I traveled in the Islamic world, in eastern Morocco, for my first week I traveled solo, virtually no Arabic, just some French and Spanish, and just a guide book and a general sense of direction. If had not been for the continual hospitality ordinary people- people who neither knew me nor expected any material reward- I would have a much more miserable time of it. The third day I was in the country I was invited by some Berber school kids back to their house in the foothills of the Atlas Mountains; they lived- six kids and the mom and dad- in a tiny mud-brick/adobe house perched above a river, with a hole in the roof for a chimney. They stopped what they were doing and fixed me tea and food and did their best to communicate and make sure I was well treated; they would have made me dinner if I'd been able to stay longer. Not once did they ask for a tip or mention money or anything, even though they were in obvious poverty. That is what hospitality is- the sheltering and care of the stranger, simply for the sake of caring for the stranger, even when you yourself are poor.

Say whatever you want about the Islamic world, and whatever you want about Islam, but the hospitality all across the Islamic world is something that cannot be ignored, and it is truly remarkable. Before you bash all Muslims and spout your hatred, think about the people like those mentioned in this article, and ask yourself whether you could summon the courage to show that sort of hospitality, that sort of care, and what you probably ought to be saying about the sort of people who do have that courage and ability, even in the midst of desperate poverty. It might change your perspective a little.
Re: Did Any of the Islamophobes Actually Read the Article?
[info]floppsiefrog wrote:
Monday, 1 June 2009 at 01:09 am (UTC)
Well said mate. Keep up the good work.
Do not blame anyone without adequate knowledge and understanding
[info]v_al_r_same wrote:
Monday, 1 June 2009 at 12:12 am (UTC)
I would like to tell all brothers and sisters whethter muslims or non muslims that it is very unfortunate that we become offensive about other beliefs, cultures or races without having complete knowledge about the religions or cultures etc.Especially there are so many misconceptions about Islam. Many cultural things are thought to be a part of Islam.Islam is a universal religion it is not for some of the people. So for right and complete understanding of Islam visit http://www.islamreligion.com/
Something weird here
[info]what580 wrote:
Monday, 1 June 2009 at 02:54 am (UTC)
Alot of people coming to the defense of Muslims because some of them are nice and take in their homeless brethern, etc..,etc... Well, if there is a (truley) 'nice Muslim' then it is not because of what is written in the Quran, rather, it's in spite of it.

Ps... Muslims do believe in helping out their fellow Muslim, particularly when they are from the same tribe. But, try being a Christian or Jew in the same scenario (if you live that long).
Zardari-percentage person not politician
[info]safwan09 wrote:
Monday, 1 June 2009 at 04:30 am (UTC)
The histoy of Zardari is full of instances where he was always involved in murky waters, surrounding his in laws. His last move was to get to office himself. Now the country is run like "more funds for me from abroad, the more misery I subject the inhabitants to", and I can always run away and hide in Notting Hill Gate.
Go sit in the box friend. You have nothing new to state.
[info]famulla wrote:
Monday, 1 June 2009 at 05:35 am (UTC)
Irene Khan: The economic crisis has only exacerbated human rights abuses
v_al_r_same wrote:
I would like to tell all brothers and sisters whether Muslims or non Muslims that it is very unfortunate that we become offensive about other beliefs, cultures or races without having complete knowledge about the religions or cultures etc. Especially there are so many misconceptions about Islam
Do not blame anyone without adequate knowledge and understanding. The reason is the illiteracy and gullibility no more. The Taliban take the illiterates. The literates will not go to them. Pakis are thieves and you will shout this from here. Go there and you will fallow in the same line of the tickets for the same bus. The idiots going to kill in the name of Jihad without the knowledge of Allah or Quran. Go sit in the box friend. You have nothing new to state. .
Thank you Brother we are all same. I want to tell you of a religious man who is very holy and is the man of his word. He has son and daughter. They said the same thing and married the French and American. You know the phrase, ?we are all same,? got in the nerves of the son and daughter. The dynasty has now no leader. The father now looks back and cries. NO FOLLOWER HE HAS IN Next 25 years. Sisters and brothers, we love, but in the name of religion, we also kill. I agree that some are not in conformity. This is more the reason the exploitation in all religions. What religion is pure like the honey of 1000 years?
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla
Mr. Firozali Mullah
[info]findempire wrote:
Monday, 1 June 2009 at 03:20 pm (UTC)
Haven't you spammed us with enough icoherent gibberish all these weeks? Nobody knows WTF you're talking about you ranting retard. Take a hike.
Re: Mr. Firozali Mullah - [info]famulla - Monday, 1 June 2009 at 05:10 pm (UTC) Expand
Devil will have more work as we have the ticketcs for hell
[info]famulla wrote:
Monday, 1 June 2009 at 05:18 pm (UTC)
Go sit in the box friend. You have nothing new to state.
I want to tell you of a religious man who is very holy and is the man of his word. He has son and daughter. They said the same thing and married the French and American. You know the phrase, ?we are all same,? got in the nerves of the son and daughter. The dynasty has now no leader. The father now looks back and cries. NO FOLLOWER HE HAS IN Next 25 years. Sisters and brothers, we love, but in the name of religion, we also kill. I agree that some are not in conformity. This is more the reason the exploitation in all religions. What religion is pure like the honey of 1000 years? answers? No? Most people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
I smell smoke when I comment some are toasted and some burn the bottom then they come back with the fish fried. Why, why, why, Illiteracy?
It is Mulla not Mullah
Learn how to read, write, breathe, it is good for our health. Eat tomatoes it is good for ears.
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla

I thank you
Firozali A Mulla

I came i saw i won? Did I?
[info]famulla wrote:
Monday, 1 June 2009 at 05:29 pm (UTC)
Haven't you spammed us with enough icoherent gibberish all these weeks? Nobody knows WTF you're talking about you ranting retard. Take a hike.
please sir if you have quetion ask no need to get rough it is Mulla not Mullah Iran has these I am not there
The lion woke up, roared and got hold of the cow. ?Who is the king of the jungle?? ?You, your majesty?. Loin went and got hold of the Giraffe asked the same. ?Your highness but of course it is you?. He went on and saw the elephant, ?Who is the king of the jungle?. The elephant took the lion by tail, swung it around and threw the animal on top of the branch. The lion feebly said. ?If you do not have answer, you don?t have to get rough?.
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla
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