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'There is no refuge, no place to go to deal with your grief'

In the first ever unauthorised dispatch from an officer on the frontline, one young Captain offers a brutally honest account of life in Afghanistan, revealing the pain of losing comrades, the frustration at the lack of equipment, and the sense that the conflict seems unending and, at times, unwinnable

The author's name has been withheld

Welsh Guards poised for battle in Gereshk, Afghanistan as Gordon Brown signalled the end of Operation Panther's Claw. The Prime Minister said the operation had not been 'in vain' despite the deaths of 20 British troops in the past month

PA

Welsh Guards poised for battle in Gereshk, Afghanistan as Gordon Brown signalled the end of Operation Panther's Claw. The Prime Minister said the operation had not been 'in vain' despite the deaths of 20 British troops in the past month

My motivation is simple. Writing this helps vent off some of the frustration at what is happening out here in Afghanistan to those serving in the British Army, where death and serious injury are sickeningly common occurrences.

Before coming here, I had done two tours in Iraq which saw fierce fighting against the enemy. But, sometimes out here I feel I might as well be on my first tour, as a novice second lieutenant instead of a so-called senior captain with over eight years experience in the Army, due to a shocking rate of attrition that I have never encountered before.

Commentators keep citing previous figures for casualty rates in the Falkland's conflict, as well as the years in Northern Ireland, suggesting that, spread over the time we have been in Afghanistan, the figures here are not that bad.

How reassuring. For a moment I thought the rates might be quite bad; but thank goodness I have been shown that what we are experiencing is in fact a tolerable "medium" number of casualties.

Can we really only analyse the death and injury rate, or view it as a cause for concern, once we get past a certain benchmark or once the average number outstrips a previous average? I had hoped that human progression was a bit more advanced than that, and that there might be more to the situation than a comparison of statistics.

Then there are the injuries. I am talking about limbs removed, double or even triple amputations, on a scale that we've never seen before.

When you read about a "very seriously injured" casualty, that person's life is never going to be the same, nor is it for the rest of their family, who will be sucked in and forever affected by the aftermath.

So what effect does this have on us all out in Afghanistan? My experience of this is from the 1st Battalion Welsh Guard's Battle Group, who have endured a significant number of fatalities and seriously injured personnel, including the death of their commanding officer.

With each death I think each of us experiences a feeling of total shock, powerlessness and impotence. Within your mind you feel you have to do something, especially if you knew the individual. Back at home that might be to jump in the car and drive to some secluded spot where you can get out and scream at the top of your lungs to let out all the anguish. But here nothing of the sort is possible. You are all enclosed within your camp or patrol base; there is no refuge, no private corner to go to, to deal with your grief.

Around you everything else has to continue, and cannot stop. The radios still have to be manned and answered, the patrols still have to be planned, the convoys have to be organised. It is not as if you can take a day off to deal with the grief, to come to terms with it. And even if you could, what good would that do?

Who wants to go and sit in their tent, sweating in temperatures in the high 40s, brooding on the possibilities: what were they thinking in those last few moments, did they know what had happened, did they know they were dying, how terrified and alone did they feel?

The only option available is to embrace the alternative: keep joking with your friends, maintain the banter levels, swapping smutty jokes and stories – literally forcing yourself to keep smiling.

I do not say that as a praiseworthy example of that renowned, age-old, plucky, English stiff upper lip. Far from it – it may be our worst enemy.

After death, life obviously has to go on, but I have always felt that life should go on having learnt a lesson from that death, improving your life as a testament to that life robbed – not merely moving on with a smile, whilst showing "fortitude".

I am just speaking for those of us who deal with the deaths and injuries in Afghanistan indirectly, as an explosion in the distance, followed by a report on the radio, then a helicopter coming in to pick up the casualty.

As for those who deal directly with the deaths and injuries, who have to go into the Viking vehicles after the explosion to pull out the casualties, who have to tourniquet the remaining stumps after both the legs of a person have been blown off, those who have to pick up the leftover pulpy fragments of a disintegrated body and put them into a bag, I am not sure how they react.

I would imagine in a similar way to the rest of us: you put it aside as soon as you can, as there is nothing to be achieved in thinking about it. All you will do is think yourself into a corner, where you are faced with the absurdity and horrid waste of it all. And if you let that take a hold, how are you meant to perform, drag yourself out of your tent at 4am after just three hours sleep, to go on another foot patrol, another 18-hour convoy, another 12-hour shift in the operations room? It does not work.

There is so much that still needs to be done, there are still weeks to get through, more patrols and convoys that need to be completed. So the event of each death is placed away, zipped up in a mental body bag, back in the recesses of your mind.

However, unlike a real body bag, which fortunately disappears, that mental body bag remains in the morgue of your sub-conscious, quite possibly to come out and be re-opened, once you return home and have the chance to think about each death, each injury, each friend gone.

Then there are the equipment shortages. Due to the pitiful numbers of support helicopters and Apaches needed to escort them, every day troops on the ground are forced to expend an enormous amount of hours and manpower just standing still. They sacrifice their reserves of energy, motivation and willpower securing and picketing routes for the never-ending vehicle convoys that have to keep happening in order to resupply the patchy spread of patrol bases with water, ammo and rations; as well as recovering the vehicles that invariably go into ditches and securing helicopter landing-sites for the evacuation of casualties from improvised explosive device strikes.

I think if Sisyphus (the Greek mythological character cursed to roll a huge boulder repeatedly up a hill, only to watch it roll back down again, throughout eternity) could see us now, he would offer his sincere condolences and offer a friendly arm around the shoulder, saying that he knew what it felt like.

If someone provided one of those garishly coloured (army) pie charts depicting the percentage of time and effort sucked up into the black hole of orchestrating these road moves, it would provide a statistic that would be both shocking and embarrassing. It might also partly explain why the military is struggling to gain an advantage over the Taliban and cannot hold a significant amount of ground. Its energy, time and focus is bound up with those road moves, and our most vital asset, our troops, are either sweating on the sides of the roads, securing them, or sweating inside the vehicles of those often doomed convoys. I am not criticising the military on the ground, who have to deal with this dilemma. Everyone seems to already agree on this issue of the equipment, in particular the lack of support helicopters – which rather begs the question of how on earth is nothing done about it? And how does the fact that nothing gets done about it seem to be the status quo and keeps occurring year after year, budgetary policy after budgetary policy, operational tour after operational tour? If a magic genie were to appear in front of my eyes, who in keeping with the spirit of the present credit crunch cutbacks, could afford to grant me just one wish, I think I would simply choose a massive increase in helicopters and pilots – a wish that would have such a crucial influence on what is happening to the British Army out here.

We are dealing here with a tenacious and stubborn enemy. Despite our dropping bombs on compounds that the enemy is using as firing-points, the very next day, new enemy fighters are back.

On the one hand, perhaps the enemy command is so feared, authoritative and manipulative that they force unwilling fighters into those compounds as pure cannon fodder. On the other, perhaps, the fighters willingly go back, despite their comrades having been killed there, so strong is their faith in an afterlife, or so strong is their belief in the jihad they are fighting.

Whatever the reason, they come back undaunted to the same firing-points, despite our overwhelming fire power. Their numbers seem to stay constant, as opposed to decreasing – all of which gives a strong indication that we will not be able to reduce their numbers to a level where they are tactically defeated.

It seems increasingly true that a stable Afghanistan will only be possible with some sort of agreement, involvement or power-sharing deal with the Taliban.

However, as the British Army units here are increasingly sucked into the turmoil of the latest "fighting season" there seems little evidence that anything is happening on the political and diplomatic stage. In the meantime, tour follows tour, during which the most intense fighting appears to achieve not much more than extremely effectively inflicting casualties on both sides, whilst Afghanistan remains the sick man of Central Asia.

I think of a scene near the end of Pat Barker's novel The Ghost Road, set at the end of the First World War, in which a seriously injured soldier lies in hospital, gradually dying. The soldier regains consciousness but due to his injuries can only slur a sentence together, which he keeps repeating. His family agonisingly try to decipher what he might be saying, which sounds like "shotvarfet, shotvarfet". His doctor realises what he is trying to say and translates: "He's saying, 'It's not worth it' ."

The man's father, a retired Army major, in grief blurts out: "Oh, it is worth it, it is."

This incredibly powerful passage goes some way to articulating our response to this conflict. We seem to know and say that it is not worth it, whilst instinctively reacting and saying that it is worth it – it has to be worth it. If I am honest, I do not know what I think about it all conclusively; my reasoning is lost in the storm of media, opinions, analysis that are at play here.

However, I know that no matter how hard I try to see through the clutter of opinions and utter something of my own in order to explain or justify what I'm involved in, I just cannot shake off that nagging, repetitive voice in my head that says "shotvarfet, shotvarfet".

The Welsh Guards' casualties

Guardsman Christopher King a 20-year-old from Merseyside was killed in an explosion while on patrol in Helmand on 20 July.

Private John Brackpool was killed by a gunshot wound on 9 July while attached to the 1st Battalion Welsh Guards. The 27-year-old from Sussex was shot near Lashkar Gah.

Lance Corporal Dane Elson was 22 when he was killed by an improvised explosive device during an attack on a compound in Babaji, near Gereshk on 5 July.

Lieutenant Colonel Rupert Thorneloe was a 39 year old from Oxfordshire. He was killed by an IED in Lashkar Gah on 1 July.

Major Sean Birchall a 33-year-old, was killed in an explosion on 19 June while on patrol in Basharan near Lashkar Gah.

Lieutenant Mark Evison, 26-year-old from London, died in hospital in Birmingham on 12 May after being shot in Helmand.

Lance Sergeant Tobie Fasfous was killed by an explosion while on patrol in Helmand on 28 April.

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'No refuge'
[info]the_beefeater wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 11:36 pm (UTC)
This powerful article needed to be written by a soldier in the field because, as far as we can tell, those higher up the chain of command have failed in their duty to impress on the top brass and the politicians that the initial justified intervention into Afghanistan to deal with the instigators of 9/11 has morphed into a futile project which, in Britain's case, now seems to be mainly about ingratiating ourselves with the US at all costs. The article is similarly a rebuke to the 'opposition' politicians and the media commentators who have continued to swallow and regurgitate lies about both Afghanistan and Iraq.
All thanks to this officer and 'The Independent' for this rare utterance of truth amid the lies.
Re: 'No refuge'
[info]adroog wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 03:16 pm (UTC)
The article was hardly 'powerful.' To most rational people it is absolutely imbecilic.

"the sense that the conflict seems unending and, at times, unwinnable"
This is not a sense. It is a fact. This fool did is one those modern-times exponents of the 'lessons will be learned' lifestyle, seemingly getting more depressed at troops getting killed and maimed by patriots defending their homeland and families. Jeez!
What he needed was a brain and the ability to read history and, perhaps, even try thinking for himself.
He is just another donkey led by donkeys.
Maybe a day will come when the lessons have been learned and he realises that he is the worst kind of murdering jerk stinking out the planet.
Hopefully this will be sooner rather than later.

Re: 'No refuge' - response to Adroog's post - [info]lhmv - Monday, 10 August 2009 at 04:52 pm (UTC) Expand
adroog -- cannot locate your honor - [info]turzovka - Monday, 10 August 2009 at 08:26 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'No refuge' - [info]wrongsaidfred - Tuesday, 11 August 2009 at 12:25 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'No refuge' - [info]flagrantvioltor - Tuesday, 11 August 2009 at 11:01 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'No refuge' - [info]mysteron61 - Thursday, 13 August 2009 at 10:35 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 'No refuge' - [info]ralph23 - Monday, 10 August 2009 at 06:54 pm (UTC) Expand
say what? - [info]turzovka - Monday, 10 August 2009 at 08:41 pm (UTC) Expand
The casualties
[info]archie23 wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 11:44 pm (UTC)
The list of casualties is misleading as it only includes the fatalities.
Author's Name Witheld....?
[info]simoncochrane wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 11:45 pm (UTC)
What a crying shame we can't know who this brave and eloquent soldier is. He writes beautifully and rationally, but passionately too, and that's not easy.

It's words like these that should/must humble us all...safe and far away from the hell of war, wherever it may be.

May the disgusting 'politicians' who've let our brave soldiers down so badly, publicly rot in the very worst hell imaginable.

I Wish.....
Are you reading this?
[info]nled63 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 01:12 am (UTC)

HEY! - CLOWN! - ARE YOU READING THIS? - ARE YOU? -ARE YOU?
Re: Are you reading this?
[info]ralph23 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 06:57 pm (UTC)
Er, you mean Dave Cameron, right, who has supported the Afghan war but has pledged a 10% cut in defence spending if he ever gains power?
Lions led by donkeys
[info]49niner wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 04:20 am (UTC)
We've sent this young man and his colleagues into a conflict ill-equipped to do the job our government thinks is worth all the blood toil tears and sweat.

All the words I've heard from politicians and senior military men has not convinced me that Britain should be part of this war. Time and again I reflect on the futility of the Vietnam conflict of my youth. Afghanistan is not our country, and we have no desire to live there. Afghans are not invading our country, so why are we fighting in theirs?

Suggestions by a senior military figure over the weekend that we'll have to be in Afghanistan for 40 years are absurd. As far as I'm concerned we shouldn't be there now, and we need an exit strategy so we can bring our troops home at the earliest opportunity.

I salute this young captain for his honesty about what he feels and what the war is really like. I cringe as news of the latest casualty comes through on the news. And I despise those glib politicians and military types for their promotion of a war they started but which has no obvious point. War is pointless at the best of times.

Bring this young man and his colleagues home - now.
Embed Politicians With Troops
[info]mike4626 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 06:43 am (UTC)
How many MPs, instead of taking a long holiday whilst troops are dying, have offered to be embedded with troops in Afghanistan.

If MPs had a true insight of the result of their decisions and the conditions in which troops operate they would be home within the year.

If Ross Kemp can do it I am sure a couple of MPs can.
Re: Embed Politicians With Troops - [info]ralph23 - Monday, 10 August 2009 at 07:03 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Embed Politicians With Troops - [info]ralph23 - Monday, 10 August 2009 at 07:34 pm (UTC) Expand
No refuge?
[info]journeyman01 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 04:32 am (UTC)
A trmendously moving article and one that should be required reading for our politicians, but probably won't. May I suggest that anyone who wants more information on the complete uselessness of the Afghanistan debacle should read a book I've just finished called "The Junior Officers' Reading Club" by Patrick Hennessey, an ex-Coldstream Guards officer. "Moving" isn't the word for it. This book is where I came first came across something similar to what our anonymous captain says above about "Whatever the reason, they come back undaunted to the same firing-points, despite our overwhelming fire power. Their numbers seem to stay constant, as opposed to decreasing – all of which gives a strong indication that we will not be able to reduce their numbers to a level where they are tactically defeated". What IS it about politicians? Oh, I known, THEY don't have to do the actual fighting.
Title
[info]rickingermany wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 05:23 am (UTC)
Some holiday reading for the PM! Please change the title of casualties to Deaths - it would be more accurate.
'There is no refuge, no place to go to deal with your grief'
[info]famulla wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 06:32 am (UTC)
'There is no refuge, no place to go to deal with your grief'
The author's name has been withheld
That is one good thing you have done
The man's father, a retired Army major, in grief blurts out: "Oh, it is worth it, it is."
IS IT?
WHY WE ARE THERE is the cry why the f*****we are there and what the hell we are doing there.
Alas see Vietnam It is the EGO of being ME I AM BIG We know this is like the cookie crumbling, but there it is I am still in Command. We went so we stay. We are safe in our homes. Rest we know not.....
A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:
[info]famulla wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 06:32 am (UTC)
A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:
I am an uncompromising opponent of violent methods even to serve the noblest of causes. -Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (1869-1948)
A powerful argument
[info]johncmullen1960 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 06:33 am (UTC)
A powerful argument to bring them home now.
All this dying and suffering because Yanks can't say they were wrong
[info]fin_d_empire wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 06:43 am (UTC)
It could all end now, this insane waste of lives and money that Obama has taken to new heights, if the Yanks simply admitted that their old dear friends the Taliban are not terrorists but simply the Pashtun resistance against foreign occupation, the Pashtuns being the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan, ousted from power by the US-Northern Alliance invasion of 2001. No more coffins, severed limbs, or damaged brains if the Yanks simply admitted that their newfound allies the narco-rapist Uzbek and Tajik warlords who sort of control 20% of the country are a good deal nastier than the Taliban ever were, and that the Taliban themselves learned their brutal misogynistic ways from CIA-issue textbooks used in Pakistani madrassas to brainwash them.

The Kenyan-born puppet of Wall Street financial felons usurping the office of the POTUS will end up being more hated than that other Democrat mass-murderer Lyndon Baines Johnson if he doesn't pull out of Afghanistan and Pakistan ASAP.
Re: All this dying and suffering because Yanks can't say they were wrong
[info]alanski wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 07:25 am (UTC)
Agreed. I sometimes wonder what would happen if another power began to supply more sophisticated weapons to the Taliban like the Stingers used to bring down Russian helicopters and anti tank missiles.
That's of course what the US did to oust the Russians and added OBL to the equation. Right now they're lucky that the Russians aren't vengeful. However they must be laughing up their sleeves at what is going on in Afghanistan.
(no subject) - [info]fin_d_empire - Monday, 10 August 2009 at 10:00 am (UTC) Expand
It's not the fault of the soldiers
[info]alanski wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 07:02 am (UTC)
They're forced into an unwinnable conflict despite what the general has to say. The Talibans greatest weapon is time and the fact that they're fighting for their own land. The same mindset that set out to destroy Saddam is being used by so called leaders who haven't the guts to answer the straight questions this conflict brings. The Americans saw the very same scenario deployed in Vietnam as fast as they destroyed they were replaced, they too have learned nothing from this experience. Soldiers cannot be replaced at will I am only surprised that they continue to put up with the lack of support that they get from the UK politicians. The Welsh Guards have taken a heavy toll and regretfully others will follow in the 40 year war of attrition. Is it worth it? Most definately not.
Perceived benefits
[info]floppsiefrog wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 07:30 am (UTC)
The Middle East and Central Asian wars are being fought on the cheap to secure and monopolize the control energy resources to sustain our current quality of life for as long as possible. It's a new form of cynical colonialism plain and simple. Unfortunately this young man and others like him think they're fighting for a more noble cause. The whole exercise is bloody shameful.
Committed to the war?
[info]nomdegloom wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 07:42 am (UTC)
If Brown & co. were truly committed to winning the war, they should allocate hugely more resources to the war effort, and bring in conscription. If they are not prepared to finish off the enemy, then withdraw the troops immediately.
Re: Committed to the war?
[info]alanski wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 08:45 am (UTC)
NO he should insist that all other Nato countries involved deploy their soldiers under fire in the same region as the British. They're not pulling their weight and although they might be there the main brunt of casualties are being carried by the the US, UK and the Canadians who also have lost well over a hundred of theirs. It's time there was some truths spoken about this and if Nato is to be continually dragged into Americas wars they ALL must play their equal part. Imagine 10000 German, French, Italian troops etc in Helmund and then you could see some results and less British casualties.
Re: Committed a war that cannot be won - [info]cp01 - Monday, 10 August 2009 at 11:39 am (UTC) Expand
We are still humans
[info]rure007 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 07:46 am (UTC)
After reading this story, my heart starts to cry. Here are we home in safety just watching SKY or BBC programs from the war front, or hearing the news read about deaths ( over and over again...). Why can we not do more for this brave men and women that is out there fighting our cause...
Re: We are still humans
[info]llienomot wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 09:54 am (UTC)
Killing Afghans is our cause?
Another Vietnam?
[info]genie_al wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 07:50 am (UTC)
Wow, what a powerful and passionate article! Thank you so much to the writer and The Independent for letting us have an awful glimpse into what is happening in Afghanistan. Having just returned from Vietnam and having seen the horrors of the American War there 40+ years ago, - yes +40 years ago!!! - clearly this is another Vietnam in the making. All over Vietnam, there are still large bomb craters, people still have burn marks from Agent Orange and Napalm bombing, people are still living without limbs, etc. The list is endless. Yet the Vietnamese are getting on with their lives. How? I cannot answer that. Nobody 'survives' this brutality: physically or mentally.

BRING THEM HOME!!! Have we not learnt from history and from our mistakes? BRING THEM THEM NOW.
Genie Albrecht
Namibia
War masterpieces
[info]sirajul wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 07:57 am (UTC)
Wars have produced so far some masterpieces, out of many write-ups, on the basis of first-hand battle experiences. But this one is not a battle experience. It's on captivity, though the writer is part of the ones in the captors' side. Readers can never understand what a battle experience is. I can understand the captain's mind because I've seen war, participated in one, our own war of independence, where we're fighting for our land and people, and the occupation army (Pakistani army in Bangladesh in 1971) feared for their lives, looking back what his mother or wife or children are doing. When a soldier can't find any reason to be in a war theatre, his morale goes down, and with lack of that, it can be said that the mightiest of the armies will go down. I'm not talking about politics. It's all about a war. It's all about a person who is in a war by chance, not by birth. Pashtuns at war by birth. You know the difference...Well, thanks to the writer who even find time to write a masterpiece!
Think
[info]bulmer613 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 08:04 am (UTC)
I spent 23 years in the RAF. I left because the last 10 years, since the 1990 Gulf war, I spent more and more time in the Gulf region. Why don't troops who get tired of war PVR (as we called it, ie hand in their notice), or in the case of this officer resign their commision?
Re: Think
[info]popskihaynes wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 09:27 am (UTC)
Quite right and from the tone of the piece, sooner rather than later, there is no dishonour in it.

I had a mate who left the forces simply because he got fed up with "horizontal rain" in the Falklands. It really doesn't matter the reason, there comes a time for most individuals when it is time to move on, as much for the good of others as yourself, this chap has reached that point and I wish him well but he needs out right now.
Intelligence
[info]katsmeat wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 08:09 am (UTC)
"On the one hand, perhaps the enemy command is so feared, authoritative and manipulative that they force unwilling fighters into those compounds as pure cannon fodder. On the other, perhaps, the fighters willingly go back, despite their comrades having been killed there, so strong is their faith in an afterlife, or so strong is their belief in the jihad they are fighting."

The fact an officer, and I assume also the army, doesn't know which is the case, suggests a worrying failure of intelligence.

Because if the former is so, I would say the Taliban will likely lose; if it's the latter, they'll likely win.
It's not worth it
[info]alfred25897 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 08:12 am (UTC)
Never a truer saying!
The donkeys are down on the beach
[info]geo32 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 09:06 am (UTC)
While our MPs are on their prolonged holiday they are probably worrying about major matters like their expenses claims and how long they will have to hang onto their jobs till they qualify for their massive pensions.

I doubt very much that one of these pathetic wasters will read the heartfelt words of this gallant young gentleman. This young man is on the front line and we hear of the odd general who backs his eloquent version of the truth but always bear in mind the top general is way back at the rear of the action while the other officers get the shitty end of the stick

I suggest that this letter be read out to a full house of parliament and watch the useless wasters squirm
Whinge
[info]shahrik wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 09:14 am (UTC)
Stop whinging and get on with the job.
If you chose to be a soldier you have chosen a path of "live by the sword"...the enemy can fight back and if you take casualties that is the nature of the beast.

If you wanted to have a cushty life in the army you chose the wrong profession.
ESPECIALLY when you elected a liar like Blair whose ego is much more important than the limbs being amputated and the lives being lost.

We have no place to be in Afghanistan.

The Russians with ALL their might left that pit of a country with their tails between their legs.
We have no chance.
Re: Whinge
[info]bajaninthesun wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 04:08 pm (UTC)
I totally agree. No one is forced to be a soldier in th U.K! Tell them to live with it!
Re: Whinge - [info]officer6000 - Monday, 17 August 2009 at 04:50 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Whinge - [info]bajaninthesun - Monday, 17 August 2009 at 06:00 pm (UTC) Expand
Army censor - where are you?
[info]ralph23 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 09:50 am (UTC)
Well done, O Anonymous Captain, for providing Al Qaeda with a much-needed propaganda boost just when they're on the back foot after Panther's Claw and Messud.
Re: Army censor - where are you?
[info]alanski wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 10:26 am (UTC)
I understand that the fight you mention is against the Taliban and I doubt if they read the Indy anyway!
Re: Army censor - where are you? - [info]ralph23 - Monday, 10 August 2009 at 12:31 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Army censor - where are you? - [info]prof_use - Monday, 10 August 2009 at 12:41 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Army censor - where are you? - [info]ralph23 - Monday, 10 August 2009 at 01:33 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Army censor - where are you? - [info]goatbucket - Monday, 10 August 2009 at 02:19 pm (UTC) Expand
fatal mistake
[info]indyas wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 10:16 am (UTC)
After the twin towers bombing there was justification and support for the U.S. and allies to take out the Taliban and Bin Laden's bases there. We lost it when the Idiot in Washington(with our support as usual) was desperate to tag the New York atrocity on Saddam Hussein and Iraq. So the illegal war started where attention and resources where poured into Iraq and we took our eye off the ball in Afghanistan. There is often a defining moment in any crisis where one decision will make you or break you. Germany opening up the second front against the Russia was one such decision.Japan's bombing of Pearl Harbour allowing the U.S. to enter the war was another. The Iraq "war" with upwards of 600 000 civilians killed and thousands of our soldiers killed or maimed, sapping their energy to go back into the bloodier theatre of Afghanistan, is our big f##k up. Mr Hussein was our friend and ally and a baddy alright - but was he really that bad or worse than many who still sit in the U.N?Worth what we did to Iraq and its people?
If I had a brother or father out there I would ask them to come home today. It's not worth it. The people who sent you(any political colour) are certainly not worth it. Joe Public doesn't give a toss. Come back while you can and get a life because if you die we will forget you very very quickly(days or minutes - if we can be bothered clicking the link) and your enemy will be our friend next year. This is not giving your life to your country - this is wasting your life for your country. Btw,anyone know the Big Brother latest??
If we were to learn something new from every death,
[info]rustyroosterfan wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 10:36 am (UTC)
If we were to learn something new from every death, by now the human race would be brilliant.

But sadly, most deaths repeat a previous lesson.
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