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Why did you kill my son? Backlash against Afghan operation grows

By Kim Sengupta in Kabul and Nigel Morris

A man holds a photograph of the Afghan journalist Sultan Munadi in Kabul yesterday after he was killed during Wednesday's raid

AFP/Getty

A man holds a photograph of the Afghan journalist Sultan Munadi in Kabul yesterday after he was killed during Wednesday's raid

The operation to free the journalist Stephen Farrell was enmeshed in controversy and recrimination last night as Gordon Brown appeared to distance himself from ordering the rescue bid which ended in British and Afghan deaths.

Now the father of Sultan Munadi, the Afghan colleague of Mr Farrell who was killed in the raid, has demanded to know why ongoing negotiations, which he believes could have led to a peaceful outcome, were abandoned in favour of a military strike.

Karban Mohammed told The Independent that his son had called him 90 minutes before he was shot to say he was confident that he and Mr Farrell would soon be freed by the Taliban fighters holding them.

In the 15-minute telephone call Mr Munadi reassured his family that talks were going well and the likely timing of the release would be when the mourning period was over for the 100 or so people killed in last week's Nato air strikes on hijacked tankers.

"Sultan was sure of that. My son's words brought me so much happiness I felt maybe I could sleep for the first time in many nights. He seemed so confident that things were working out," recalled Mr Mohammed.

"We sat around and discussed how we would welcome Sultan back. That was never to be and now we are all very sad. Many terrible things have happened in this country, but when it happens to your own, it is not easy.

"Yes, I feel very angry about what happened. I feel sad and also angry. Sultan was killed for no reason at all."

Mr Munadi, the father of two boys, aged three years and five months, was shot down when British, American and Afghan troops stormed the building at a village near Kunduz, in the north of the country, where he and New York Times journalist Mr Farrell were being held. The British soldier killed in the raid was yesterday named as Corporal John Harrison. It is not known whether the fatal shots came from Taliban fighters or the rescuers.

On Wednesday, Gordon Brown had basked in the limelight, making a public statement soon after the operation. By yesterday, as anger grew, Downing Street was in contortions, first insisting that the Prime Minister was merely "consulted" over the decision to launch the operation.

It stressed the raid was authorised by David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, and Bob Ainsworth, the Defence Secretary, on the advice of forces on the ground. "The final decision whether to go or not would have been made by the two cabinet ministers," Mr Brown's spokesman said.

But Mr Miliband was in Paris for talks on climate change at the time, while Mr Ainsworth is understood to have been away from Whitehall. Both the Foreign Office and Ministry of Defence are thought to have protested about No 10's comments.

In the face of accusations that Mr Brown was running away from responsibility for the raid, Downing Street mounted a damage limitation operation last night. Sources in No 10 insisted that the Prime Minister took ultimate responsibility for any government decision.

Far from Westminster, Mr Mohammed, 67, sat at home yesterday morning after burying his son the night before. A steady stream of family and friends came to offer their condolences. It was a mainly silent occasion with murmurs of sympathy, broken only by Mr Munadi's son, Parsa, asking his grandfather for ice cream.

Mr Mohammed, a man of quiet dignity, repeated the question he had been asking himself for the last day. "Why did they do this? Why did the military not wait for the talks? It is not just my son who died, there were others, a young British soldier I am told. His parents must be feeling very sad as well, please send them my sympathy. We are very unhappy about how this was done, they have shown no feeling for us. We would just like an explanation, we deserve an explanation."

That explanation has not been forthcoming from Nato, or the Afghan government, or the UN. It is unclear who took the final decision to press General Stanley McChrystal, the US commander of Nato forces in the country, to mount the raid. Military sources say a mission became imperative because Mr Farrell, 46, and 34-year-old Mr Munadi had passed into the control of Mullah Salaam, a notorious Taliban leader. The pair could have been spirited away to a remote mountain hideout, or across the border into the terrorist havens of Pakistan, where a rescue operation would have been much more hazardous.

But, among many Afghans, there is a feeling that Afghan lives don't count for as much as Western ones. They point out that while Mr Farrell was whisked to safety, Mr Munadi's body was left abandoned on the ground, to be found by the householder, Mohammed Nabi, who says his sister-in-law was among those killed.

Fazul Rahim, an Afghan producer for the American network CBS News, said the foreign forces' actions showed a lack of respect. "It shows a double standard between a foreign life and an Afghan life," he said. Naqibullah Taib, of the Afghan Independent Journalists' Association, called on foreign news organisations to do more for the safety of local staff.

The importance of in-depth reporting from the country was highlighted by the news yesterday that a UN panel had decided to annul ballots from dozens of polling stations that mostly favoured President Hamid Karzai, heralding a fraud investigation that could drag on for months.

But politics is far from Karban Mohammed's mind. He insists his son believed his life was safe. "They allowed him to speak to us every day. He called us and we called him. I remember the first time I talked to one of the kidnappers and told him that my son was innocent, to let him go.

"I said I was an old man, that his mother was old and she was ill, and this could give her another heart attack. They said my son and the journalist would be all right, they would be freed. I thought maybe that was a trick, but then Sultan said that he was feeling safer because a deal was being organised. I do not think he was just saying that. Why should he build up our hopes like that? No, I believe this could have been settled peacefully."

It is one of the curious features of this case that the kidnappers had allowed Mr Munadi to use his mobile telephone when the location of the calls could so easily have been tracked. According to those involved in the negotiations, the abductors were not so much trained insurgents as criminals. This, say the negotiators, was one reason why they felt the situation could be resolved by paying a ransom. The sum under discussion, according to these people, was not particularly high.

Mr Munadi was on a visit back home to Afghanistan from a post-graduate course in Germany when he went to Kunduz. He had said it was important that people like him came home to rebuild the country.

"He had lots of hope, and now all that is thrown away," said Mr Mohammed. "Maybe when he left that morning, I should have stopped him, told him that he has a young family and he should not take the risk. It is too late now... I looked at my son's face when they brought the body home. He had very bad injuries, but you know I think he was smiling..." His voice faded away.

Sultan's brother, Usman, was also confident that the journalists were going to be freed. "In the morning my uncle said that he had heard the Red Cross had freed him, and we must hurry to go and get him," he said. "We were driving in the car when he got a phone call saying that Sultan has been killed. He stopped the car and started crying. I cried as well: there was nothing else we could do."

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Get Britain out of this YANKEE SCUM war
[info]luka_kuzmich wrote:
Thursday, 10 September 2009 at 11:09 pm (UTC)

If the YANKEE SCUM want to fight wars, then let them.

Britain has no part in these wars, and needs to GET OUT NOW.

David Miliband can choke on a matzo.
Re: Get Britain out of this YANKEE SCUM war
[info]abshivers wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 01:18 pm (UTC)
Maybe the "Yankee Scum" should have not gotten into World War II and let your ungrateful ass get invaided.
bus bombings
[info]proudyankee wrote:
Thursday, 10 September 2009 at 11:43 pm (UTC)
Luka_kuzmich

too bad you were not on one of the busses blown up by islamic terrorists. Maybe then you would be grateful for the volunteers who fight to keep you and your ungrateful behind safe
Re: bus bombings
[info]mark_888 wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 12:05 am (UTC)
Can you explain what buses you are talking about that have got blown up by Afgan citizens ?
Re: bus bombings - [info]jaded63 - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 05:53 am (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]llienomot - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 06:32 am (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]jaded63 - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 10:31 am (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]llienomot - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 03:37 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]spirit2534 - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 11:06 am (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]luka_kuzmich - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 08:03 am (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]doru001 - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 10:50 am (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]luka_kuzmich - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 04:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]not_dhmini - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 05:29 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]luka_kuzmich - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 05:54 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]not_dhmini - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 06:08 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]doru001 - Monday, 14 September 2009 at 03:33 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]doru001 - Monday, 14 September 2009 at 03:57 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]doru001 - Monday, 14 September 2009 at 04:25 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]luka_kuzmich - Monday, 14 September 2009 at 11:03 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]doru001 - Wednesday, 16 September 2009 at 01:16 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]luka_kuzmich - Wednesday, 16 September 2009 at 08:57 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]doru001 - Monday, 21 September 2009 at 12:45 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: bus bombings - [info]mikhalovich - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 12:40 pm (UTC) Expand
Yes get Brits out of war.
[info]clete wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 12:25 am (UTC)
I don't really consider myself scum, but I agree the US should go it alone to include leaving NATO. For too long and still the majority of Americans have believed the UK was our "best friend", while the majority of Brits dispise the US.
It is a shame about Mr. Mahammad's son, but if they had negotiated their freedom it would be some other father's son in a few weeks. The only reason Sulton is dead is he was captured by Taliban or criminal elements. Getting prisoners out alive an a contested extraction is dicey business. The British did a great job and should be commended.
Re: Yes get Brits out of war.
[info]paganpete1001 wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 07:25 am (UTC)
Hey Clete, I have to refute your comment 'the majority of brits despise the US' - that is incorrect - BUT it does seem by reading these comments that a vocal majority of Independent readers do!

TO be honest I do not think the mens lives were worth one over the top reporter (even though his family would disagree) - I think we should have sent blunderboy and golden brown over instead to try a rescue attempt!

Business as usual
[info]aquickstep wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 12:32 am (UTC)
I am not sure what the beef is here, as far as i am concerned trhe safety and wellbeing of each and every UK serviceman is paramount without exception , so if it is a matter of a choice as to who gets out and who does not.. sorry and all that but UKmil's safety should always be first . After all these no neck, lying twofaced master de baters we have as politicians got them into this pile of crap .As a people we should get the message home to the elite cafebar at westminster that they call a patrliament that we want our troops out of afghanistan now, not in a year or 6 months. We are there to do what exactly?
Obviously NOt to bring democracy because they (Aghans) have rejected that idea by voting with their feet. So F*** them and leave them to their own home brand of government. business as usual will be the case whatever we do and nothing we are doing there now will last 6 months after we go.
[info]zeusshiloh wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 12:40 am (UTC)
It is amazing how good insight is. If there be any anger directed towards anyone, it should have been at that NY Times Reporter, who knowingly went to a place of danger after being repeatedly warned to not go. A British soldier and a translator died trying to free this reporter. That is a shame, especially seeing how the media treats our soldiers.

However, one thing about terrorists, if they are not dealt with they not only expand but conquer and influence other areas. It is not if you will fight them, it is when and where. Some people forget that, and then some people forget Chamberlain. But the second guessing will continue now, after the fact, and there will be those whose eyesight is perfect in that matter.

However, in Afghanistan, it is becoming extremely difficult to determine who is Taliban and who is not. Even the professionals have problems in that area. So, until all evidence comes out, it would be wise to wait and see, and not get caught up in the media who is trying to sell papers by using the death of two brave men.
Anger
[info]mitaman wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 01:06 am (UTC)
I am fuming about this. The anger should be at the NYT reporter who had been repeatedly told to stay out of the danger zone. It was also a ridiculous decision to go in and two people have been killed to save some foolish hack. He will have to live with that guilt for the rest of his life and rightly so, but at least he still has one unlike the other two.

He should meet the family of the deceased serviceman and beg for their forgiveness. I could spit on him!
Re: Anger
[info]nonviolence1 wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 01:28 am (UTC)
I agree with mitaman - repeatedly told to stay out, the redsporter does exactly the opposite - he caused the deaths. The hypocrisy of the West knows no bounds. We should never have been there in the first place and we should negotiate our way out as best we can. Obviously from an unbiased viewpoint an Afghan's life is worth far less than a Western one and if we are going to kill scores of civilians in air strikes, there will be a heavy pernaly to pay.
Re: Anger - [info]cm999 - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 07:37 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Anger - [info]cowboyup6 - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 10:42 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Anger - [info]nonviolence1 - Saturday, 12 September 2009 at 02:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Anger - [info]klg1956 - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 07:35 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Anger - [info]lisas_cat - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 10:53 am (UTC) Expand
Afghan "rescue"
[info]archer717 wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 02:09 am (UTC)
According to the account by its reporter Farrell in in yesterday's NY Times, The Taliban had fled before the "rescuers" arrived so both he and interpreter Munadi were already free. He also said that Munadi had called out to the troops, "Journalists, journalists," trying to telll them "We're the guys tou're trying to rescue, don't shoot!" But they then shot Munadi. And rwo other civilians, one a woman. Since the Taliban had already fled, it seems Corporal Harrison was killed by "friendly fire".
Re: Afghan "rescue" or premeditated murder?
[info]fin_d_empire wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 07:25 am (UTC)
That makes sense. Dumb as Brown and his coterie of corrupt jackasses may be, why would they order the SAS to attempt such a risky rescue when ransom negotiations were going well? Yesterday I was inclined to sse this as yet another example of Crash Gordon's seemingly boundless talent for creating disasters. Now with all these friendly fire deaths I'm not so sure.

Here's my question: Was the SAS sent in to kill the journalists or to save them? Was Crash Gordon just having another one of his stupid days or was he intentionally trying to eliminate high-profile media witnesses of the Yank air massacre of 120 civilians at the tanker bombing site? Was this a premeditated "accidental" slaughter of journalists like that by the Yanks at the Palestine Hotel in Baghdad, the attempted murder of Juliana Sgrena, the Yank bombings of AL Jazeera offices in Kabul and Baghdad, the Yank shootings of countless journalists?

Think about it, what was Farrell likely to have reported on his release if the SAS hadn't charged in with guns blazing? He was going to say that hundreds of civilian villagers had gathered around the stranded tanker to get some fuel but that the Yank pilot bombed them regardless. How would that make McCrystal's "protecting civilians" spiel look? Like one big fat lie, that's how. So what does Obama do? He tells his British poodle/valet to go and shut those pesky journos up. Makes total sense.
Re: Afghan "rescue" or premeditated murder? - [info]luka_kuzmich - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 08:22 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Afghan "rescue" or premeditated murder? - [info]aquickstep - Tuesday, 6 October 2009 at 10:52 am (UTC) Expand
[info]riksavage wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 02:32 am (UTC)
Both Stephen Farrell and Sultan Munadi chose to put their lives in extreme danger by their ill advised actions resulting in a British serviceman dying attempting to free both.

History tells us that the Taliban are a ruthless group who for shock factor alone will cause inhumane suffering for a 30 second video sound-bite. Relying on negotiators whilst the situation remains fluid and the hostages could be possibly moved at short notice would have been a huge mistake.

In future, based on the reporting by this paper and many others, journalists regardless of nationality should be left to their own fate if they ignore security advice and wonder off into high-risk areas. What really get’s my goat is the criticism of the military who had to make tough split-second decisions and risk their lives because two Jorno’s decided to go off on a jolly.

I hope Farrell takes the time to visit the dead soldiers’ next of kin and explain his actions.
Sheep dogs
[info]jose5 wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 03:07 am (UTC)
Don't blame those who make the choice to take action for right and goodness, to protect those who cannot protect themselves. Violence must be met with violence and there is no other way. If there were, war and conflict would have faded long ago from the face of this planet.
[info]johnk100 wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 03:47 am (UTC)
It seems to me that it was more a military stunt that failed than a rescue attempt. Will this rescue attempt had taken place if a high visibility political personality (say from USA or UK) was being held? This type of action by the NATO forces in the Middle East that ignores the likelihood of civilian casualties is not uncommon and often dismissed with an apology and a promise that it will be investigated. Results of the investigation will be given in the future when the western populace has forgotten the incident.
Baloney !
[info]brother_louis wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 05:31 am (UTC)
Ungrateful hacks - talk a lot of hot air about searching for truth but when in their search for the truth (for 'truth' read 'Pulitzer Prize') they get nabbed by bearded fanatics (despite numerous warnings of the danger they might face) they moan and complain when soldiers risk their lives to rescue them. The lesson is simple - the next scribbler to get nabbed gets left to fend for himself - simple as that.
Re: Baloney ! - [info]johnk100 - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 04:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Luka_dorkmeister
[info]kidyubyub wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 03:50 am (UTC)
luka_kuzmich, you keyboard tough guy. Yankee Scum? I would suggest that perhaps the U.S. pull all of its troops from every country and then stop giving monetary aid as well. Then perhaps my fellow Yankee Scum will live much happier. You don't like us? Don't call on us to help. Let's see what happens then. You are a real mental midget.
Re: Luka_dorkmeister
[info]bloggsforever wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 04:29 am (UTC)
Monetary aid or loans?
Re: Luka_dorkmeister - [info]luka_kuzmich - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 08:24 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Luka_dorkmeister - [info]luka_kuzmich - Friday, 11 September 2009 at 08:44 am (UTC) Expand
Tacit or explicit approval?
[info]elevengoalposts wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 06:00 am (UTC)
Brown was informed beforehand, as is required. There is a government led by a Prime Minister who can and will veto proposed (by ministers) actions he does not have faith in.
Miliband authorised the recommended action to Brown who did not quash on it - whether he had reservations or not, doesn't matter - he gave his approval by not disapproving.
Now, he's disappearing again, with the "No. 10 entity" advising (through absolute lackeys) that it was all the fault of Miliband and Ainsworth fault. Well, we could all believe the latter's capable (by being totally incapable) of anything, and Miliband couldn't think up a plan like that anyway - and it would involve too much personal courage.
Well, sorry, but it won't wash and is the weekly disaster we all expect from this woeful administration.
[info]ngodinhdiem wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 06:06 am (UTC)
As an American I would like to send my condolences to both the British and Afghan families affected by the senseless deaths of all parties. I truly believe the callous and myopic actions of the NY Times; to put lives in jeopardy for what apparently was the 2nd time their journalist had been captured by insurgents, is far more than simply poor judgment. We should all try to forgive Mr. Farrell for his poor decision making. Should he ever publish a book about the subject we should also try to FORGET his publisher. He alone should live with the memories his actions. He certainly shouldn't profit from such a terrible situation into which he brought himself and so many others. If he had a couple of pints and got behind the wheel of a car and it resulted in the loss of life he would be doing time in his local prison back home. I see no difference with regard to lack of common sense and poor judgement demonstrated by this true "yankee scum". Cheers to you Mate, for calling a spade a spade.
Why did you kill my son
[info]militantsisidf wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 06:17 am (UTC)
ProudYankee
I guess you are also proud that your Pentagon created and supported the Taliban for years - Charlie Wilson;s war isn't even the half of it. 9/11 and the Pentagon was like the boomerang you threw out coming home, huh? Idiotic, unchristian policy results in catastrophy Racist, capitalist wars of state terrorism countered by irregular terrorism. I guess you are also happy about the millions of dollars of fundng of IRA terrorism that flowed from your country. Hypocrite.
How short your memories seem to be
[info]secretagentx_6 wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 06:25 am (UTC)
Have you forgotten all the yankee scum did for you during not one but two world wars...
Re: How short your memories seem to be
[info]luka_kuzmich wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 08:55 am (UTC)

I knew it wouldn't be long before we heard this revisionist yankee squawk. In WW2 the USA was an ally of the Third Reich for the first two years, and was investing heavily into German armaments industry - companies like Thyssen Krupps. It was American money that was making the weapons used against Poland & Czechoslovakia. Finally yankee-doodle got a rude awakening when his fleet got blown out of the water at Pearl Harbour. Some small effort was then noticeable - in yankee's *own* interest, I mean - but it was the Red Army that defeated Hitler and took Berlin.

But if we are making lists of yankee war-involvements, then let's not forget the Korean War, and all that great work you did dropping napalm on small children in Vietnam, huh?
lets hear about the woman and child killed
[info]pete1960 wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 06:37 am (UTC)
hope they wernt jesus and mary
NYTimes:!-Of-Worlds Enduring+Consistent-Evils
[info]xeno77777 wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 06:42 am (UTC)
The NYTimes has a bad Reputation of being Pro-Imperial German, Pro-Adolph Hitler, and being Pro-Soviet, and Pro-Russian, and Pro-Communist. Communism is am Jewish Heresy of Atheist Jews. The NYTimes is Pro-Aatheist. In 1908, the NYTimes European Reporter had an interview with Imperial German Kaiser Whilhelm, in which the Kaiser incautiously revealed Imperial Germany's plans to conqueeer the Entire World, which it began planning in 1870, upon the Franco-Prussian War Victory, and the subsequent unification of all German states, except Austria, under the King of Prussia. Had the Interview been Published, the World's Nations would have taken steps to prevent Germany from accumulating what it needed to carry out such a Conquest, and WWI would not have occurred, with all the bad consequences; the Russian Revolution and the subsequent Marxist-Leninist Soviet Putsch, and the rise of Nazism. Had the NYTimes, the Anti-Defamation League, and the ACLU, all joined together in a vigorous protest of Adolph Hitler's possible coming to power, who had publically avowed to exterminate the Jews, they could have thus prevented his coming to power! These Three Nominally Jewish Atheist Organizations, thus are responsible, for at least, knowingly, running the risk of a Holocaust!!! The NYTimes, by not running the kaiser's interview, hid Germany's Evil Intent from all the Western Democratic Powers, and their own country, the United States, thus committing High Treason! The NYTimes conduct there after, has never risen above the Pro-Baal Neo-Platonism of Philo Judaeus of Alexandria, Egypt; Plotinus; and Emmanuel Kant. The NYTimes has thus made itself into one of the Worlds Most Enduring and Consistent Evils. Certain Pro-NYTimes British Leaders, have acted very irresponsibly. The NYTimes motive in exposing its reporter to certain danger, was to embarrass Britain, the US, and NATO, and build up Russia! So what, if the Taliban grabbed someone like that? Good Riddance! An Engineer would have been hoisted by his own Petard (Crane {device, mechanism}) The Islamic Terrorists live on Saudi Arabia's Oil Money, which US President Richard Nixon intended to prevent by mandating All Automotive Vehicles sold in the US use either the Texaco Gasoline, or the Mann Diesel, Controlled Combustion Cycle. These use small refinery's, that could produce twice the gallons of motor fuel per barrel of oil, as they would have no Octane/Cetane Requirements, and would have cut the Worlds Crude Oil Demand in half. But the NYTimes favored Soviet Union would have collapsed ten years sooner, and All the World's Gigantic High Octane/High Cetane refineries would have been torn down by 1995! Thus the NYTimes is also responsible for Global Warming, as well as the Oil Financed Terrorisms and the dangers or a revived Russia and would be Nuclear Terrorist Psychopaths of Iran, who will certainly use the A-Bomb, if and when they finally get one, by hiring the Mexican and Other Drug Gangs to smuggle A-Bombs into the US, and the West Such would be the NYTimes, and No 10 Downing Street's, final end!
Caring for our own!
[info]corporatelies wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 07:27 am (UTC)
I might be wrong but doesnt it seem strange that in this "heroic" rescue operation, 3 afghans were killed, a mother and child and Mr Munadi whereas the British reporter was unharmed. Would it be too much of a leap of imagination to say that those involved in this operation were making it easy for themselves and had in their minds that "we can shoot everyone who doesnt look British. Shoot first ask questions later." I would say that is exactly what happened. If these are special forces ie SAS, SBS, Pathfinders etc they are trained almost daily in hostage rescue and to hold fire when "friendly's" appear out of nowhere.

Lets be honest Afghanistan is a military strategic area for the west as a military base and thats why we want to keep building bases there! Give me a break about the training camps etc. wasnt the bombing of two fuel tankers surrounded by civilians an act of terror? in the Christian Bible, Christ had some of the harshest words for hypocrites so please dont go on insinuating how Islam is somehow inherently bad as so much of the western press have been doing for so long. Tim McVeigh was a Christian and look what he did and did we make a big hoo haa about his religion? In the US Christian evangelists are on TV openly calling for Hugo Chavez to be assassinated, do we make a big fuss over that?

No we dont so what are we? Thats right, the unpalatable truth is we are all hypocrites in the west and I include myself in that category. We have no right to point fingers at anyone!
Re: Caring for our own!
[info]not_dhmini wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 05:45 pm (UTC)
We have a right to point fingers. There is a large group of people who want to fight us. I don't want to live under Sharia. Many will fight to the death to avoid this.

"Establishing the Islamic state world-wide belong to the great goals of the revolution." ref: Khomeni

From the Holy Koran
[9:29] You shall fight back against those who do not believe in GOD, nor in the Last Day, nor do they prohibit what GOD and His messenger have prohibited, nor do they abide by the religion of truth - among those who received the scripture - until they pay the due tax, willingly or unwillingly.

ie: Fight against those who are not Muslims unless they pay the Jhiza Tax. Spain is a good example of a country that paid tribute to Islam and is now (for now) left alone. Kind of like the Mobster who beats up the store owner until the store owner pays him a protection tax to operate in the Mobsters area.
Soldiers or Sissies?
[info]thearma wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 08:49 am (UTC)
Does nobody else see how ludicrous the outrage over this soldier who died in a legitimate military action is? Does nobody remember what their job-description is - soldiering. A job which involves war fighting. Sometimes that involves being shot at. Sometimes being shot at results in deaths.

These are not even conscripts, these are professional volunteer soldiers. A civilian was being held, the military reacted appropriately.

This kind of media-focussed fuss is the reason our forces are loosing the pride that they justifiably once had. In a war soldiers die, the life of a soldier is worth nothing compared to the life of an innocent man.

It's a shame we don't live by this, irrespective of nationality. Air-strikes killing civilians to save the lives of UK servicemen... entirely unacceptable. I would rather see a platoon of dead soldiers than one dead civilian.
With respect.
[info]thisanthat wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 10:20 am (UTC)
It appears some individuals are of the opinion the gentleman who lost his life through covert action was somehow oblivious of the risk involved in this regrettable incident. He above most should heve conciously been aware (and probably was) of the likely scenarios which could tragically unfold.
Little accolade has been uttered by these same individuals about the heroism of the deceased paratrooper, who paid the ultimate price in the vain attempt to secure the freedom of all concerned.
To Karban Mohammed
[info]carte_blanchee wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 11:33 am (UTC)
This is to the father of Sultan Munadi - I would like to extend my sympathies to you for the loss of your son. This terrible story and the pictures I have seen of your grief have moved me to write. Sultan Munadi was trying to interview villagers bereaved during the NATO strike against the fuel tankers. One of the aspects of this war has been the role of the war reporter and the influence of the practice of embedding on reporting, specifically on the reporting of the consequences of war on civilians. Sultan Munadi showed extreme courage by attempting to protect Mr.Farell. I hope that Gordon Brown is going to contact Karban Mohammed and make some effort to explain the events surrounding his son's death.
The soldiers death should be mourned, not the journalist
[info]bingozip wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 02:10 pm (UTC)
The military did the right thing.

Unfortunately a generous soldier gave his life to free two irresponsible journalists seeking personal acclaim. Hopefully the soldier's death will not be in vain, but serve to prevent future kidnappings of stupid western journalists.

I bet Farrell will now write a self-aggrandizing book about the experience, critical of the military that saved his life - and fools will buy it!

A disturbing story
[info]mikhalovich wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 03:03 pm (UTC)
There are a number of elements in this story which are disturbing. First, if Mr Munabi and Mr. Farrell were prisoners, how could Mr Munabi have called his father 90 minutes before he was murdered? There capitivity must thus have been sufficiently relaxed for him to keep his cell phone in which case no armed assault was justified. They would have been released in due course. Second, how come so many people were killed when the tanker trucks were blown up by NATO/American air strike? Was the Taliban or whoever captured the trucks distributing the gas to local village people? Were they the ones thus killed? If this is so, the Taliban was serving as a kind of Robin Hood distributing captured NATO or American supplies to local people. If so, the Americans and their camp followers have a problem because it means that the Taliban or whoever represent the Afghan resistance movement are attempting and succeeding in building up a popular base through provision of community services or redistributing captured American/NATO war supplies. The killing of these civilians in these circumstances will have a particularly adverse effect on the American/NATO occupation. Third, American invasion forces are often violent and bullying and this is yet another example of such behaviour. Their violent habits appear to have been adopted by other NATO members. The European countries involved in this foreign intervention are thus being discredited and have allowed themselves to be dragged into a quagmire of American origin. Will they ever learn that distance from aggressive, violent American foreign/military policies is in their vital interests?
Re: A disturbing story
[info]ngodinhdiem wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 06:36 pm (UTC)
You make a good point that there are some very disturbing facts regarding this tragedy. However, you take a truly simplistic view of the History of Afghanistan. It amazes me as an American that Europeans can simply ignore several hundred years of imperialism in South West Asia and act as if 9/11 was brought about solely by the US. I for one chose my side in 1983 when 200+ American "peace keepers" died without rounds for their rifles attempting to calm both sides of an age old dispute. With your logic and acute sense of history I suppose you could pin the cosmic war between the religions squarely on the shoulder's of the US of A. It had nothing to do with the greed of the vatican during the crusades, countless pogroms across Europe and points East, or the continued blatant racism against Muslims to this day all across Europe against what are ostensibly your neighbors. America doesn't exist in a vacuum any more than the UK. Apparently Kipling recognized Afghanistan as a quagmire over a hundred years ago when ironically Britain had soldiers dying on it's plains: When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, And the women come out to cut up what remains, Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains An' go to your Gawd like a soldier. Go, go, go like a soldier, Go, go, go like a soldier, Go, go, go like a soldier, So-oldier of the Queen!
Scary
[info]dustyromo wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 05:24 pm (UTC)
What exactly are we doing in Afghanistan again in the first place.

RT
www.privacy-resources.tk
Yet another U-turn by McBean...
[info]jollytall wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 06:37 pm (UTC)
No wonder he 'basked in the limelight' following the rescue - probably desperate to make up for the failure of those held in Iraq...
Re: Yet another U-turn by McBean...
[info]1_fast_man wrote:
Friday, 11 September 2009 at 11:03 pm (UTC)
The War Monger Bush is gone,his evil ways live on & on. johnny c
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