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Parched: Australia faces collapse as climate change kicks in

Geoffrey Lean and Kathy Marks report on the worst heatwave in the country's history

A man sunbathes on the beach at Melbourne yesterday as temperatures broke records, staying above 43C for the third day in succession. More than 20 people have died from the heat

Reuters

A man sunbathes on the beach at Melbourne yesterday as temperatures broke records, staying above 43C for the third day in succession. More than 20 people have died from the heat

Leaves are falling off trees in the height of summer, railway tracks are buckling, and people are retiring to their beds with deep-frozen hot-water bottles, as much of Australia swelters in its worst-ever heatwave.

On Friday, Melbourne thermometers topped 43C (109.4F) on a third successive day for the first time on record, while even normally mild Tasmania suffered its second-hottest day in a row, as temperatures reached 42.2C. Two days before, Adelaide hit a staggering 45.6C. After a weekend respite, more records are expected to be broken this week.

Ministers are blaming the heat – which follows a record drought – on global warming. Experts worry that Australia, which emits more carbon dioxide per head than any nation on earth, may also be the first to implode under the impact of climate change.

At times last week it seemed as if that was happening already. Chaos ruled in Melbourne on Friday after an electricity substation exploded, shutting down the city's entire train service, trapping people in lifts, and blocking roads as traffic lights failed. Half a million homes and businesses were blacked out, and patients were turned away from hospitals.

More than 20 people have died from the heat, mainly in Adelaide. Trees in Melbourne's parks are dropping leaves to survive, and residents at one of the city's nursing homes have started putting their clothes in the freezer.

"All of this is consistent with climate change, and with what scientists told us would happen," said climate change minister Penny Wong.

Australia, the driest inhabited continent on earth, is regarded as highly vulnerable. A study by the country's blue-chip Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation identified its ecosystems as "potentially the most fragile" on earth in the face of the threat.

Many factors put Australia especially at risk. Its climate is already hot, dry and variable. Its vulnerable agriculture plays an unusually important part in the economy. And most people and industry are concentrated on the coast, making it vulnerable to the rising seas and ferocious storms that come with a warmer world.

Most of the south of the country is gripped by unprecedented 12-year drought. The Australian Alps have had their driest three years ever, and the water from the vast Murray-Darling river system now fails to reach the sea 40 per cent of the time. Harvests have fallen sharply.

It will get worse as global warming increases. Even modest temperature rises, now seen as unavoidable, are expected to increase drought by 70 per cent in New South Wales, cut Melbourne's water supplies by more than a third, and dry up the Murray-Darling system by another 25 per cent.

As Professor David Karoly, of the University of Melbourne, said last week: "The heat is unusual, but it will become much more like the normal experience in 10 to 20 years."

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Use more water
[info]edotoole wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 12:29 am (UTC)
I have a video to cheer them up on www.youtube.com/edotoole called Desert Water Mirage. It was taken during a hosepipe ban but, hey, God comes first. The Aussies would love it.
Australias heat wave
[info]milanesf wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 12:57 am (UTC)
er.... as an Australian living in South Australia I gotta say this story is what we would call "a beat up". We had the hottest day since 1939 the other day (45.7 degrees C). To all those blaming Global warming, what the hell happened in 1939???? The blackouts were due to load sharing of power between three states, a product of privatisation of the power services, state vs state competition and total incompetency by our politicians, not all due to global warming.
Re: Australias heat wave
[info]numinousjourney wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 02:34 am (UTC)
Exactly, same here in Melbourne this type of weather happens around this time every year with different extremities, its the cold days that we will have to worry about as when global warming does kick in we won't be seeing sun as all our weather comes from the west and there is only ocean that way.

How about some fact checking there in the UK?
Re: Australias heat wave - [info]markw3 - Monday, 2 February 2009 at 08:34 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Australias heat wave - [info]arp103 - Wednesday, 4 February 2009 at 11:15 pm (UTC) Expand
Don't worry, the government is acting ...
[info]mounty1 wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 01:06 am (UTC)
There's a AU$5000 `baby bonus' for producing another citizen.

Yep, that's right. Just when we ought to be shrinking the population, we're actually paying-out to increase it. Nice one.
denial still endemic
[info]someofusknow wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 01:40 am (UTC)
I see the global warming deniers are still hanging in there, even as glaciers melt, polar bears and penguins become homeless, and Australia burns. Gotta keep burning coal, oil and gas, whatever the consequences for the next generation. Business as usual, the most untouchable sacred cow in all of history. Burn Baby Burn!
Re: denial still endemic
[info]colinru wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 12:47 pm (UTC)
Your post is incorrect. Please post the facts - NOT propaganda from a "Warmist" website - that substantiate ANY of your claims. Polar Bear Numbers are higher than they have been in Decades, Penguin Numbers ditto, I can find no reliable Data showing Glacier melt is higher, Australia regularly has heatwaves like this.

So come on - post the facts instead if abusing "Denialists" like me who think that AGW is unproven.

As for Minister Penny Wong - she should start checking facts for herself rather than listening to hysteria from "Warmists". A growing number of Scientists are, finally, getting up the courage to question AGW (more than 31,000 signed a recent petition).
Re: denial still endemic - [info]croziflette - Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 04:28 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: denial still endemic - [info]colinru - Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 06:04 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: denial still endemic - [info]ramabama - Tuesday, 3 February 2009 at 11:01 am (UTC) Expand
Re: denial still endemic - [info]ligeia_bm - Tuesday, 3 February 2009 at 02:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: denial still endemic - [info]chipotle - Tuesday, 3 February 2009 at 05:47 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: denial still endemic - [info]cr362 - Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 12:54 pm (UTC) Expand
Global Warming? Hahaha wake up
[info]scientist09 wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 02:20 am (UTC)
Is this really global warming? If it is, then why is it not as hot as 70 years ago. Couldn't one actually say this is global cooling? Well, it does seem to be not as bad as 70 years ago.
Re: Global Warming? Hahaha wake up
[info]jay0100 wrote:
Tuesday, 17 February 2009 at 03:06 pm (UTC)
Those that waste the world's (potentially limited) time insisting that the 'warmists' (reek of Fox news anyone?) have upon them the burden of proof I think like the sound of their own reactionary voices and are missing the glaringly logical: in another context, if a doctor (please don't bother picking this apart it's an illustration) were to tell you that there is the chance you could have cancer but that the test results won't be available for another year, however in the meantime quitting smoking could definitely help you, WOULD YOU DO IT?
We are talking potentially about the end of an inhabitable biosphere. If in years to come the global warming phenomenon and man's role in altering the climate are debunked, I will humbly accept lashings of smugness from the 'deniers'. In the meantime I would prefer that the world's power brokers take some meaningful steps towards the dodging of a colossal bullet, in the same way that I pay premiums against the possibility of my dropping dead before I finish this sent
Re: Global Warming? Hahaha wake up - [info]tanzals - Thursday, 23 July 2009 at 02:00 am (UTC) Expand
They still don't get it
[info]pigletstrotters wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 02:29 am (UTC)
The CCDs (climate change deniers) still don't get it... climate change is already with us; it's happening NOW! There is virtual unanimity amongst the world's scientific community, but people who know jack s**t about science are claiming it's all a scam to make money, just because they're afraid of losing their favourite power-hungry toys. Pathetic.
Re: They still don't get it
[info]johnsmith9833 wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 03:23 am (UTC)
here's a thought, from ACTUAL scientific research: from 18,000 years ago until now, the sea level has risen 130 meters (now that's deep shit), but the rise in sea level from 1870 onwards is (surprise!) 195 MILLIMETERS. for the environmentalist morons, 195 mm = 0.195 meters. 0.195 meters of increase for more than a hundred years of human-initiated carbon emissions? WTF?

oh yes, there's probably a whole lot of those carbon-emitting SUVs on the planet before 1870!!

more here
Re: They still don't get it - [info]arp103 - Wednesday, 4 February 2009 at 11:28 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They still don't get it - [info]colinru - Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 12:54 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They still don't get it - [info]doug333 - Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 01:49 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They still don't get it - [info]colinru - Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 05:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They still don't get it - [info]cr362 - Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 12:56 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They still don't get it - [info]johnsmith9833 - Monday, 2 February 2009 at 03:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Collapsing Oz
[info]iberlin wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 02:59 am (UTC)
Sitting here in Collapsing Oz with my laptop, sweltering in my ice bath sucking a Fosters I wonder if there is any point carrying on. But wait here?s some news just in via Associated Press:
A crippling winter storm has plunged about a million customers into the dark from the Midwest to the East Coast, and thousands of people in ice-caked Kentucky have sought refuge in motels and shelters.
This report, incidentally, is currently less than one hour old:
Dozens of deaths have been reported and many people are pleading for a faster response to the power outages. Some in rural Kentucky ran short of food and bottled water, and resorted to dipping buckets in a creek ?
Local officials grew angrier at what they said was a lack of help from the state and the Federal Emergency Management Agency.
Oh, hello. It?s a Katrina moment for President Obama.
Emergency Management Director Randell Smith ? said roads are littered with fallen trees and people shivering in bone-chilling cold are in need.
?We?ve got people out in some areas we haven?t even visited yet,? Smith said. ?We don?t even know that they?re alive.?
Smith said FEMA was still a no-show days after the storm.
Guess I?ll stay in Melbourne after all. Wait till they figure out Kentucky's weather.
Re: Collapsing Oz
[info]johnsmith9833 wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 03:46 am (UTC)
yup! i'll take "scorching hot" than "bitterly cold" anytime...
Re: Collapsing Oz - [info]the_kegs - Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 09:40 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Collapsing Oz - [info]g_and_t4me - Monday, 2 February 2009 at 03:15 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Collapsing Oz - [info]antben - Monday, 2 February 2009 at 10:03 pm (UTC) Expand
unsupported conclusions that blame global warming
[info]johnsmith9833 wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 03:18 am (UTC)
Re: unsupported conclusions that blame global warming
[info]johnsmith9833 wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 03:20 am (UTC)
What a beat up
[info]rossolimo wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 04:11 am (UTC)
The heatwave is not over most of Australia but a part of southern Australia. In Adelaide they had these temepratures 100 years ago and no global warming then. We had ten days of 40C last year and no hysteria. I grew up in the fifties and sixties and we always had heatwaves around and over 36C. Rail lines have always buckled. It's all a part of the global warming hysteria. Problems with power shortages has been caused by privatization. What a ridiculous story!
Climate Change Denial??!!
[info]scientist09 wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 06:05 am (UTC)
OK OK, may be there is climate change. I am not in anyway denying that. I only get annoyed when paranoid people take week and irrelevant natural phenomena as evidence and try to use it to enforce their ideas. If you are legitimately arguing against global warming which I think is actually happening, then don't blame it on baseless evidence. Not everyone is foolish to believe it. This is only the kind of story that will be shown on something like Today Tonight Or Current affairs. According to one of my Scientist friends, Adelaide should have been under water by last year??!! Hello!!
Global Warming
[info]cornish_blog wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 06:34 am (UTC)
I totally agree that we should do more to make the world more reliant on sustainable energy's like solar, wind etc but lets face facts here.
It all comes down to money and at the moment it is profitable for scientists to Big up Global warming / Climate change as that allows governments to GREEN TAX (money) out of us all. Oh if money could simply solve all the global problems without having to change our ways.
I can remember when the ozone layer was "The end is nigh" but oh look its fixed its self, but we haven't reduced our emissions?
When climate research became politicised everything can get blamed on others i.e its a global problem needing a global solution - we'll tax people and companies if they don't meet their carbon footprint this year and spend it on keeping the banks afloat that will solve the global climate- Surely? Cos then the banks can loan us the money back to spend on more global warming research.

Gavin in Thailand - oh yes breaking news the temperature here is the same as it has been year on year - will I get crop subsidy?
Miraculous self-fixing ozone layer
[info]tatcawh wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 11:15 am (UTC)
'fixed itself' did it? and 'we haven't reduced our emissions'?

CFC emissions were slashed to virtually nothing following the Montreal Protocol: http://chemlinks.beloit.edu/Ozone/pdf/CFCem.pdf

As usual, the deniers just make it up as they go along.
Re: Miraculous self-fixing ozone layer - [info]lucife - Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 05:58 pm (UTC) Expand
xlimate change
[info]jeanshaw wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 07:02 am (UTC)
What a load of rubbish , yes , Australia is having an unusually hot summer but global warming is just a myth as more evidence comes to the fore to show that what has happened over the last 10 years is in no way consistent with global wartming theories which were often based on erroneous or carefully chosen statistics
Deny, deny, deny
[info]namgirl wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 07:04 am (UTC)
There's a reason we no longer tend to refer to 'global warming' and talk instead of 'climate change'. Greenhouse gas emissions contribute to more extreme weather events, more frequently. Heatwaves are a result of changes in global weather patterns caused by greenhouse gas emissions, as are unusual/unseasonal freezing conditions and floods.
People who try to deny this are the same people who point out that there have been extreme weather events before we had SUVs and plasma screen televisions. Manmade climate change started with the industrial revolution so of course there were hot summers a hundred years ago...
Re: Deny, deny, deny
[info]colinru wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 01:01 pm (UTC)
Prove your assertion that extreme weather events are because of AGW (hint : you cannot).

AGW did not start with the Industrial Revolution. We have been coming out of the little ice age since about 1850 & Global Temperatures are STILL lower than in the Medieaval Warm Period (circa 1400).

Global Temperatures have been flat or slightly declining since 1998, Sunspot activity has also been declining in this Period & is now at or near a minimum (look up "The Maunder Minimum" for an explanation).

If you want me to believe in your AGW then PROVE IT!
Re: Deny, deny, deny - [info]blathra - Monday, 2 February 2009 at 11:52 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Deny, deny, deny - [info]colinru - Tuesday, 3 February 2009 at 11:39 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Deny, deny, deny - [info]blathra - Tuesday, 3 February 2009 at 11:26 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Deny, deny, deny - [info]colinru - Wednesday, 4 February 2009 at 12:52 am (UTC) Expand
Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud
[info]sirjpturcaud wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 07:39 am (UTC)
WELL DONE

Australia is getting the change of his money for its trillions of ring-barking trees fell, the mad agricultural practices growing water thirsty crops such a maize, cotton, cane sugar, tobacco & rice at the cost of forceful depletion of aquifers and their parallel pollution by the chemical fertilizers used.
Australia as such has no problem, the problem of Australia are that greedy, vulture minded, hard nailed & hard necked populace preying upon the land as the carrion crows upon a corpse.

As well the problem is in a clueless Political class getting its advices from equally clueless Universities Cretins wrapped in the false dogmas of a fraudulent Geology ... the one practice now ! Indeed contrarily to what is accepted, the Earth is NOT stable on Ecliptics and as a result of Global Warming is accelerating its drift on Ecliptics then with irreversible consequences of which the main ones are : Depletion of Aquifers, Invasion of the sea seeping in through continent up to 200 miles inland, conducting to irremediable loss of fresh water resources, falling crops and eventually famines.

Moaning and bleating as the Australians are doing now is not going to resolve their ignorance & the applications they make of it.

Yours faithfully

Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud
Australia Mining Pioneer
Discoverer of Telfer Mine ( Australia largest Copper & Gold MIne)
Nifty (Cu) & Kintyre (U, Th) Mines, all in the Great Sandy Desert
+ re-discoverer of the Rooney show aka Lasseter's reef (IMO)
Exploration Geologist & Offshore Consultant
Founder of the True Geology
~ Ignorance is the Cosmic Sin, the One never Forgiven ~
for background info.
http://www.tnet.com.au/~warrigal/grule.html
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/tel/index.html
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/tel/nac.html
http://members.iimetro.com.au/~hubbca/turcaud.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s28534.htm
True Geology Foundation document :
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/69327
Re: Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud
[info]iberlin wrote:
Monday, 2 February 2009 at 12:41 am (UTC)
How are you Sir Jean-Paul. What happened to your prediction that Sydney would be
wiped out by a tsunami over Christmas? That would really have moved the sea inland.
[info]bishophill wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 08:10 am (UTC)
Isn' t it funny that a heatwave in Australia gets the headline treatment, while there is no mention of the ice storm in the USA which has just killed 42 people.

Denial starts at the top
[info]findempire wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 08:38 am (UTC)
In April 2007 John Howard was still denying any link between the drought and climate change:

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21585348-5001021,00.html

Luckily, the deniers like Bush and Howard who twiddled their thumbs as the world went to hell are the same ones who encouraged the bankers to crater the economy, creating an epic economic depression that will bring down greenhouse gas emissions faster than any voluntary measures could have done.
What about the chentrails?
[info]tommytcg wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 09:15 am (UTC)
According to observers, anytime that rain clouds move inland, vigorous chemtrail spraying, (micronized aluminium and barium sulphate, identified) takes place. The clouds then `dissipate`. Yes I know what a contrail looks, like I have several thousand hours 4 engine jet pilot time. So who is ordering the unmarked white jets to chemtrail, and why? The Aussies must ask this from their Government, assuming they still have any rights left. One theory is that once farming has collapsed, and land foreclosed by the banks, the world food output and thereby pricing can be better controlled.
A futile discussion
[info]robynne_hood wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 09:49 am (UTC)
Whether climate change is man-made or not is really not a game-changer. The results and the remedies are the same in both cases. The living conditions for humans will deteriorate in some places, while in others it might actually improve and so humans will have no choice but to adapt.
Cutting down on carbon emissions, using natural resources in a responsible way are two things that are important to do regardless of the cause of climate change. This means that the last thing we can afford now is another wasteful bubble who squanders resources for profit.
Global Warming?
[info]indyreader wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 09:53 am (UTC)
Here in Perth Western Australia last spring we had a situation that November 2008 was cooler than October 2008

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/200810/html/IDCJDW6111.200810.shtml
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/200811/html/IDCJDW6111.200811.shtml
Australia ill-equipped for heat
[info]allenn007 wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 10:11 am (UTC)
Having lived in Australia I was amazed how ill-equipped that country is for their summer heat. For example, few houses have air-conditioning, and they still have carpets believing that somehow they are still living in Britain or Ireland! In many hotels you'd be lucky to find a fan.
In fact I found Indonesia more advanced in that respect and better-equipped to deal with the heat.

Moreover though, they still follow the British system of a 9-5 working day and don't seem to have a break in the middle of the day (siesta) as in many other hot countries when everything closes down, and then restarts when the temperature cools.
Instead of covering up many people wander around in shorts and T-shirts exposing themselves more to the heat of the sun.

It has to be asked why many third world countries can deal with this heat and Australia can't. I suspect it is related to Australia still thinking that it wants to follow a British way of life instead of adapting to the heat.
Re: Australia ill-equipped for heat
[info]iberlin wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 10:47 pm (UTC)
Europe had a "heatwave" a few years ago during which I believe 11,0000 people died in France, 2,000 in Italy (even the siesta couldn't save them), Hundreds in the UK etc. All believed to be heat related because of poor housing design and NO AIR CONDITIONING. South Australia and Victoria have managed to get through a scorching week or two without anywhere near those sort of fatalities. Why? Good housing design, shorts and T-Shirts and AIR CONDITIONING.
Re: Australia ill-equipped for heat - [info]foris_36 - Monday, 2 February 2009 at 12:31 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Australia ill-equipped for heat - [info]rossolimo - Monday, 2 February 2009 at 12:50 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Australia ill-equipped for heat - [info]ramabama - Tuesday, 3 February 2009 at 11:18 am (UTC) Expand
global warming
[info]wayland063 wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 11:03 am (UTC)
piglettrotters, im afraid you are wrong about unanimity amongst scientists, its actually the other way round, its all spin to create an industry around it all, to back track now would be devastating to them.

If anything its due to the running out of resources and getting us to reduce our outputs and feel guilty!
look deeper down the rabbit hole it gets worse

Peace and liberty
skating on the thames
[info]wayland063 wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 11:08 am (UTC)
yes a a couple of hundred years ago people where skating on the thames and had fairs and stalls, In the medieval period it was warmer than now and the time of cathedral building. This is all cyclical and not really an issue except for the scarmongers and people making lots of cash from it, come on peeps stop listening to these gimps who justify their jobs with this propaganda
Re: skating on the thames
[info]lbogrease wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 12:08 pm (UTC)
One of the main reasons for the Thames icing over was the fact that the then London Bridge restricted the flow. Hence the freezing over. As soon as the new London Bridge was built the river flowed much faster and so freezing did not take place.
However, records show that London has got warmer since then. But that's partly due to the increase in population and therefore heating more buildings.
And what was the most common fuel?
King Coal which emits what?
CO2 which could mean that the Climate Change lobby is right.
Not so sure I want to find out. Perhaps it's better to be cautious and use less of everthing.
Re: skating on the thames - [info]colinru - Tuesday, 3 February 2009 at 12:03 pm (UTC) Expand
Hi from OZ
[info]greg_dingo wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 11:16 am (UTC)
It's quite pleasant here really, yes a bit warm out in the sun, but it makes a great excuse to go to the pub and have a Beer or G&T. The biggest problem has been the midday Peak Hour as all the Tradesmen knock off early due to the excessive heat and all head for the Pub.
I'd prefer this to what will happen to Europe and GB if the Nth Atlantic Warm Current moves south due to Arctic Melting, Ice Sheets down to Spain!!!
Maybe you could send your Ice over here for our G&Ts!!
Come on Global Warming!
Australian power requirements
[info]miker100 wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 11:37 am (UTC)
Question. What has Australia got in abundance? Answer SUNSHINE. Question. What do the Aussies do with it? Answer. Bugger all it seems, except surf in it, lay around in it. and generally ignore it's power producing potential. Why? haven't a clue, but stupidity and apathy seems high on the list. Don't get me wrong I like Aussies, in fact my daughter is one, but they have got to be a few bricks short of a pile not to utilize the one asset that is virtually endless, constant and even stupid people can't screw up.
Re: Australian power requirements
[info]colinru wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 01:07 pm (UTC)
They do not use it because Solar PV Power is uneconomic, at present. This may well change in the next 20 years or so. Once prices come down it will become economic in Oz long before it does in Europe.
Climate change is real - or basic science is wrong
[info]pareimi wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 12:06 pm (UTC)
The rates at which heat is radiated and conducted through different gases can be accurately measured in laboratories, and the transmission of infrared (i.e. heat photons) photons through gases is well understood. The transparency of different gases to visible light and infrared photons differs greatly. Gases that are highly transparent to visible light - that part of the spectrum in which the Earth receives by far the greatest part of incoming radiation - and which are highly opaque to infrared photons are by definition "greenhouse gases". The retardation of heat transfer by each gas is quantified as "radiative forcing" - you can surf the internet to read the numbers.

Greenhouse gases in the atmosphere retard the emission of heat from the Earth - they cannot physically do anything else. If this were not so, basic concepts of physics and chemistry that explain all other phenomena, must be wrong. I have never encountered a scientifically educated global warming denialist. Enough said.
Re: Climate change is real - or basic science is wrong
[info]colinru wrote:
Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 01:20 pm (UTC)
I am a "Denialist" & I am scientifically-trained as are the 31,00 who signed a recent petition disagreeing with the IPCC report. Enough said for you?

If CO2 is significant in raising Global Temperatures, please explain why the Geologic Record seems to show CO2 levels as a lagging indicator of temperature?

Why, if CO2 is significant, do Global Temperatures seem to follow Sunspot Activity?

Why are they now STILL lower than they probably were 600 years ago?

Is that enough said or would you like me to give you several more "Inconvenient Truths" about AGW???
Re: Climate change is real - or basic science is wrong - [info]johnsmith9833 - Sunday, 1 February 2009 at 02:40 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Climate change is real - or basic science is wrong - [info]iberlin - Monday, 2 February 2009 at 08:20 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Climate change is real - or basic science is wrong - [info]tatcawh - Monday, 2 February 2009 at 04:47 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Climate change is real - or basic science is wrong - [info]pareimi - Monday, 2 February 2009 at 08:30 pm (UTC) Expand
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