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From beyond the grave: A searing indictment of Putin's protegé

A report by Natalya Estemirova, the Russian activist murdered in Chechnya as she investigated human rights abuses

President Ramzan Kadyrov displaying his shooting skills

Getty

President Ramzan Kadyrov displaying his shooting skills

The abductions in Chechnya started nearly a decade ago. In 2000, Russian forces took control of practically the entire territory of the republic, and started extensive mop-up operations in villages.

Thousands of murders and abductions took place; these operations were declared to be an efficient method in the fight against rebels. In reality, however, the troops and police were looting the houses of unprotected civilians, at times taking away everything from them, from cars and furniture to shampoos and female underwear.

Most horrifically of all, women were raped in front of their male relatives, and all the men were detained, from teenagers to old men: they were either cruelly beaten, or released for ransom, or else they disappeared forever.

Large-scale "mop-up" operations stopped after 2003, but the abductions did not. Most often, one or two people would be taken from their homes in the middle of the night. Some were fortunate to return home barely alive after several days or weeks of cruel beating and torture – always ransomed by their relatives. But if the family of the abducted person could not gather the necessary sum or find the mediator, a dead body would be found some time later, or the victim would disappear for good. There were also those who – after their disappearance – appeared in court and were sentenced for grave crimes, despite their insistence that they had only confessed under prolonged torture.

Many things would change when Ramzan Kadyrov became President of Chechnya in 2007. Large-scale reconstruction began; Grozny changed by the day, its streets newly covered with asphalt and houses boasting plastic window frames and fresh plastering. Observers started talking about the wonders of the young President. From the inside the renovated houses did not look so beautiful, with no interior works done, and no proper utilities ensured. Since then, Kadyrov has attempted to engineer a further change of ideas. The President is advancing his campaign for a "revival of spiritual traditions"... making women and young girls "dress properly", and above all wear headscarves in public.

Meanwhile, Kadyrov invites Russian pop celebrities to Chechnya and gives them lavish presents. No one dares to ask how these visits are sponsored, or how they comply with the Chechen "tradition". No one dares to object to anything Kadyrov says or does, just as no one dared to object to Stalin's words or deeds in the former Soviet Union. Peace in the republic and the successes in fighting terrorism are widely advertised; yet in reality rebel fighters frequently attack policemen, the numerous branches of the military structures constantly clash, and people keep being abducted. The main difference now is that many disappear only for some days and return beaten, terrified and therefore mostly silent.

Political observers claim Kadyrov is ruling over Chechnya independently of Russia. Is it really so? Tens of thousands of Chechens pining away in Russian prisons would not agree. Neither would the hundreds of thousands of war victims, or the relatives of the killed and missing. And the outflow of Chechen refugees to European countries is not subsiding. On the contrary: more and more people are trying to leave. A dictatorship is being cemented in a small European territory.

UN and EU officials compare the situation with the events of 2000, and note indubitable improvements. But what was the reason for destroying so many cities and villages, killing hundreds of thousands of civilians and... introducing state terror justified as a "fight against terrorism"? Was it not to crush the society and force it to make an artificial choice between democracy and stability? The Kremlin is satisfied with the current suppression in Chechnya of any attempts to act and think independently.

An extract from a 2,600-word article by Natalya Estemirova on the situation in Chechnya written in August 2008 but never published

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How politically expeditious ...
[info]ydef wrote:
Thursday, 16 July 2009 at 11:45 pm (UTC)
Assuming the accuracy of the honorable late Ms Estemirova, how completely on message Russia was to take full advantage of the distraction of the barbaric Iraqi invasion during 2003 to so conveniently exploit western propaganda of that time's 'War on Terror' as the facade for Chechnyan genocide.

Considering the explosiveness of the accounts provided by Ms Estermirova it's no wonder someone wanted her dead yesterday. Buried in the massive informational overload of the US & British invasion, there was nary a blip in western media with regards to what was really going on in Chechnya. Even if it had been mentioned, considering the whole scale terrorization of the Iraqi people by western forces that followed the massive failure of post war planning, I would imagine public reaction would have suffered from information overload ... and the response would likely sit dull and jaded.

I do remember coming across an article or two of how Russia was doggedly using the 'War on Terror' to annihilate Chechnya with old school post WWII Russian tanks, but that was farce in the face of the wide scale 'Janjaweeding' of Darfur like sordidness complete with Atilla-like cruelty enacted upon the Chechnyan people.
Re: How politically expeditious ...
[info]chanch5 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 10:11 am (UTC)
As I recall, Putin was one of the first -or the first - to contact the Bush administration to express support following the attacks on the Twin Towers and Bush's "War on Terror" nonsense. He knew which side his bread was buttered on.

Also, a number of years ago already, Amnesty reported on how all kinds of governments were monkeying Bush's rhetoric for their own military and political ends.
Re: How politically expeditious ...
[info]emelya09 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 09:44 pm (UTC)
I've had it with this standardized lingo of vocabulary-challenged commentators.

"As I recall" wording is misplaced here as it is a turn of phrase better suited for appositive purposes and may not be used at the beginning of affirmative statements.
Further, the word " amnesty" may not be capitalized, unless previously introduced, for amnesty cannot report anything, unless we mean Amnesty International.
Thirdly, regarding the style of "monkeying" description.
It may not be applied to the overused policy of successive American Administrations to ostensible bribe its potential "allies". Diplomacy is engaged and employed only after the initial "conquest' proved successful, and in cases of equal opponents(barely in evidence throughout American History.
Most external American enemies were created by Americans themselves and the internal enemies were mostly the sources for the good in this country.


Re: How politically expeditious ...
[info]chanch5 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 10:27 pm (UTC)
Almost frightening: someone apparently even more pedantic than I am!

If I had known the ghost of my English teacher was out to get me, my "style" might not have been so lazy in my internet posts!

Certainly in this sort of context I am less than formal -a few notches up from text-messaging perhaps! And yes we do mean Amnesty International as we will have understood!

"As far as I remember" might have displeased you less.

"Monkeying" referred not to a US policy but to an imitation of the aforementioned rhetoric by others for their own ends...such as by Putin in Chechnya for example, but also by governments such as those of Cuba and China -i.e. not exactly US client states.

Re: How politically expeditious ...
[info]emelya09 wrote:
Saturday, 18 July 2009 at 12:07 am (UTC)
Thanks, chanch5!
Yes, I am a former English teacher(from Russia).
As for Putin, one has to realize the guy has received a Russian state in the most deplorable condition, ready to disintegrate, with a quarter population drinking from depression, from all prospects gone as a result of the state-run idiotic economy that supported from state prisons being unable to feed convicts, from 80 years of inhuman brainwashing, outright starvation, destruction of morals, first in the world state-supported abortion laws (official policy of the Bolshevik Government year 1920, how many years before Roe VS Wade?) and dozen other reasons.

Before you guys come out swinging at the likes of Putin, try to understand the plight of many millions whose lives had been raped many times over, with their psyche haunted and ravished from so much abuse by authorities, whose lifetime savings turned to nothing after perestroika, pensions and all, whose dignity was trampled upon and whose suffering through the most severe of regimes was now being pat upon......need I continue?

I was 20 years old when I returned from the army. We couldn't buy anything but some bread and milk and few other staples, meat not included.
Our diplomas were useless, our country had no future, our young had little to live for, our grandmothers (most grandfathers died in WWII) were picking through rubbish to find food, all this almost animalistic existence emphasized by utter humiliation of a country as a whole.

Imagine many US states declaring independence all at once, with federal government hard-pressed to collect the revenue to ensure minimal operation of its branches.
Add to it the army of China and Iran, and Pakistan, and whoever positioning on the northern and southern borders.
All the world's propaganda agitating the public opinion against the 'evils' of the Americans, with many nations with a grudge claiming the US owed them reparations for "continuous occupation, for ruining the indigenous habitats of Native Americans, of Iraqis, of Chileans, Venezualans, Argentinians, of Pacific rim nations, of Japanese victims of unique barbaric bombing horror, of Palestinians, Syrians", etc.
This is all hypothetical, mind you!


Aren't you scared? What if the Russians supported the Iraq's fractions against US...currently, the war is being won by a ragtag barefooted barely armed, underfed, untrained awed into submission Iraqis.
Imagine they got the help from Russia, or China, the way you guys supported Afghanistan against Russian interests that 20 years later forced you to bite the bullet.
Nonsense, you say???

I am venting, I am aware of this, but if, as a result of this writing, one person in the West will stop to think about the content of their beliefs, about the misplaced and misguided affinities of the free republic of the United States...about the utter injustice of the "victors" in the Cold war, and their unprecedented violations of agreements, about the future centuries of coexistence on this planet, with American hegemony not at all guaranteed...then, perhaps, people will stop blindly insulting the Russians every chance they get!

Good Day and thanks for reading his!

Re: How politically expeditious ...
[info]perk_i wrote:
Saturday, 18 July 2009 at 06:54 pm (UTC)
I've had it with people like yoooo.
Re: How politically expeditious ...
[info]emelya09 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 06:28 pm (UTC)
Could you please check the spelling of "Chechnyan's people!
Re: How politically expeditious ...
[info]emelya09 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 06:34 pm (UTC)
"Expeditious" means "time-saving' or "efficient".
The "indignant" contributor perhaps wanted to say "expedient".
Well, I many be wrong, since I am Russian.
Repression or Business-as-Usual
[info]ironspiderzero wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 06:28 am (UTC)
The only thing that surprises me anymore is that other people are still surprised when these situations are reported. Regardless of all the 'advances' of 'civilisation' we are still a tribal species at heart. Some tribal affiliations are constructs of how our society interlocks, the oft-cited example of football supporters, while others follow familiy, political, religious or ethnic groupings. And, invariably, those groupings cause tension if not outright conflict. It seems inevitable that tension leads to violent opposition and, therefore, repression by the state or by a stronger group. Where groupings are roughly evenly matched fault-lines appear in society and countries either go through civil war or fraction into regions divided along political, ethnic or religious lines.

If Ms Estemirova's accusations are even partly true then it's a sad reflection on the ingrained intolerance the world as a whole seems to face. But is it a surprise? Unfortunately, no...
Stalin lives!!
[info]joeturner wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 07:58 am (UTC)

I am reading a novel called The Stalin Epigram by Rbt Little, based on a true incident of Stalinist repression of a poet who dared criticise Stalin. As I read of the arrests and tortures and killings of innocents, I thought to myself, "Thank heavens those days are over and we will nver see them again."
Re: Stalin lives!!
[info]emelya09 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 06:38 pm (UTC)
Let's see:

Pinochet, Saddam Hussein, Hosni Mubarak, Royal Saudi's family...i think these are the people/regimes supported by US establishment, and that is the most recent record.
What has it got to do with us?
[info]thundertiktok wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 08:22 am (UTC)
From Somalia to Yemen, from Tanzania to Waziristan, from Sudan to Algeria, the stories from Chechnya are used to convince Muslims that the infidels are only interested in raping, mutilating, ransoming, slaughtering followers of Allah, and the brutality inflicted on brother Muslims is justification for revenge on Piccadilly.
Re: What has it got to do with us?
[info]corporeal_v001 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 12:22 pm (UTC)

But sadly that happens to be the case.

Have you considered why we have the so called terrorists? Its because of USA/UK meddling in the affairs of the middle east - and these middle east people just happen to be muslims.

What about the use of torture by the USA and UK forces in the last decade. Do you wonder why the Afghans regrouped into an insurgency?

Its all about meddling and control...
Re: What has it got to do with us?
[info]emelya09 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 06:26 pm (UTC)
Never mind the last decade. How about British atrocities thought history, even before America had it's name?
Hundreds of little details escape the Weterners' ears due to elites' complicity, even as honest Americans and Britons would condemn their governments' outright international criminality.
Re: What has it got to do with us?
[info]emelya09 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 06:40 pm (UTC)
Nice examples of 'Russia-lovers' sly manipulation of muslims the world over to turn their anger towards Russia.

In all other cases, it's international terrorism.
Estemirova was at least able to publish that
[info]fin_d_empire wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 08:29 am (UTC)
Scores of journalists who tried to report on Yank atrocities in Iraq never made it to the upload link. In 2005, the Yanks staged their "Salvador option" in Iraq, unleashing Shiite death squads on the Sunni population much like the then US ambassador in Baghdad John Negroponte had done in El Salvador, going so far as to direct his death squads to massacre US Catholic nuns (whom they first raped, of course) and murder Archbishop Romero. 2005 was also the year when journalists died like flies under a hail of Yank bullets and those of their Shiite stooges in Iraq, the most famous being the Italian reporter Juliana Sgrena, who narrowly escaped a US firing squad on her way to the airport thanks to sacrifice of her bodyguard.
Re: Estemirova was at least able to publish that
[info]jim_keys wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 10:31 am (UTC)
Thanks for publishing this. Natalya Estemirova would be happy to know that her work of investigating and trying to raise awareness of the repression that underlies the 'peace' in Chechnya has reached a few more souls. And the tread is useful as we can see through rex123's posting that those doing this kind of think can justify what they are doing for the greater good. We should be greatful. Yes we have to unleash undesirables to do our dirty work but the end 'peace' justifies the means. Sorry comrade rex I don't buy it. THERE IS NO WAY TO PEACE, PEACE IS THE WAY. We cannot collude with abuses of power for a cause we must expose them. We must hold external powers to account as we must hold our own power to account so that those around us who benefit or suffer from our use of the powers we have been given experience peace not repression. Thank you Natalya, and thank you Independent not just for this but for your consistant stance against the decimation of Iraq which as fin_d_empire points out then required the likes of the lovely John Negroponte to be unleashed to work diligently on our behalf.
Re: Estemirova was at least able to publish that
[info]rex123 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 01:59 pm (UTC)
jim_keys, but I exactly wrote that despite I disagree with Natalya Estemirova, it was NOT right to kill her - read my post please - I would appreciate your apologising...Then, I think Kadyrov has nothing to do with this crime - allthough it may be that some of his adherents are involved or quite opposite, some of his enemies who want to frame him - we don't know. My post was against attitude to Putin's politics in Chechnya in general - not that I support assassinations of women.

2. Why do you call, me "comrade" - to insult me? I am the member of Yabloko party here in Russia and suffered a lot on the hands of communists - there are victims of Stalin's repressions among previous generation of my family - your calling me "comrade" is immoral and insulting in this respect.
Looks like Russia-haters want to commit a suicide
[info]rex123 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 09:17 am (UTC)
artickle: "The abductions in Chechnya started nearly a decade ago." ------------------------------------------------------------What an unbelivable ignorance! Read Leo Tolstoy's "The Cacoutional Prisoner" which reflects events of 1840-s-1850-s - Tolstoy is translated into English and is available in any book store in London! Abductions in Chechnya is a tradition which is famous for centuries! - looks like the victim (Estemirova) was really a provocator if she wrote such a crap (as an insider she could NOT be unaware about tradition of abductions there - This story by Tolstoy is in school program since USSR times!). Ofcourse above mentioned doesn't mean her assasination was the write thing to do. Thank you Independent for this extract from her writing - I never heard about Estemirova before and so had no idea what was it she angered smbdy in Chechnya so much - this extract of her writing shows a lot...

2. So Kadyrov she thought was bad (as well as Putin). Every idiot understand that if Kadyrov will go away - Al-Queda will come to his place. There is no other so powerfull, influential person in Chechnya able now to control situation and keep Islamists far in the mountains away from power in Grozny!...Really, lets dismiss Kadyrov and invite Osama bin Ladin to Chechnya - he is now uncomfortable in Pakistan since US is bombing around him. Right. Very clever. Then spread jihad to other muslim authonomies in Russia (20 mln. muslims live in Russia, - give them independance and , naturally, their part of Russian nukes - why not? - democracy is democracy - they have their rights in share for everything created in Russia while with joint efforts, right?....So maybe it is easier then to invite bin Laden directly to rule in UK, why to wait till he will nuke you from Independent Imamat Chechnya with ex. Russian nukes, eh?
what about russian refuges from Chechnya?
[info]rex123 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 09:32 am (UTC)
article: "And the outflow of Chechen refugees to European countries is not subsiding"--------------------------------------------------------------What about 400 000 Russian, Ukrainian, Jewish, Nogay and Armenian refugees who fled Chechnya to Russia because of separatists murders, abductions and ethnic cleansing in 1990-s? Those HUNDREEDS OF THOUSANDS never (NEVER!!!!) come back to Chechnya - google for figures of pre-war population content of Chechnya and what is there now! No Russian population in Chechnya at all now (only soldjers in barracks)! And before the war Russians were 40% of Grozny population - where are they now?...Looks like Western press again has double standards in order to ruin everything in Russia. But remember my prophesy - if Russia disintegrate - you'll get here Islamic state with Russian nukes. And there will be nobody to blame for it exept you yourselve, albeit you may blame whoever you want - it will be useless and late anyways...
This Scenario Grows More Familiar
[info]bobav wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 10:47 am (UTC)
From Iraq to Gaza to Sri Lanka to China to Chechnya, this scenarios grows more familiar: bombing, abductions, torture, and a kind of potemkin village rebuild all largely out of sight of journalists, who are either kept well under the auspices and control of those who are committing the vile acts of warfare against civilians, implicitly or explicitly mortally threatened, or outright murdered. The United Nations offers its toothless condemnations, and the rest of the world stands by, either anxious for the day when the same techniques can be used by them to control regions of resource or geopolitical import or fearful that they will be among the next victims.

Welcome to the future of the collusion and confusion between militant free markets and double speak democracy.
Rest in peace Natalya Estemirova
[info]brnmar wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 12:21 pm (UTC)
May the Merciful Creator forgive you for all your mistakes in this life and bless you to enter HIS heaven.
[info]joeturner wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 01:38 pm (UTC)

to FIN-D_EMPIRE. One can guess your message from your logo. I would appreciate some documented evidence to support your claims of US/Shite "death squads." I would also suggest that regardless of the subject of any article commented upon, you will drag out the Central American atrocities and the Shite "death squads." So give us some solid evidence to back up your claims...or else, I may call you unpleasant names.

I would refer you to a good article on Estemirova in Foreign Policy. com.
Salvador Option
[info]ascot2 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 02:22 pm (UTC)
General Stanley McChrystal, the US Army officer allegedly responsible for implementing the Salvador Option in Iraq has recently been transferred to take command in Afghanistan, so look for unexplained "events" in that country.
[info]pordus wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 03:12 pm (UTC)
Solid proofs are never demanded for accusations made in Western press against Russia and its politicians. It always goes without any proof - just some interpretation of some indirect evidence. And as soon as "Russia" is mentioned, then it immediately implies guilty. Nothing is ever interpreted in even remotely positive terms when Russia is involved (even though there is plenty of room for this, just complete lack of will to see it that way)

But when someone doubts West's cleanliness, we start demanding solid proofs... What is a "solid proof", may I ask? And when you answer, please check if you have any "solid proof" for accusations made in black&white articles directed against Russia - maybe you would get more concerned with double standards which is my main problem.

Just 1 year ago, I could read a lot of article about corruption in Russia all comparing it with a superior Western model. As we all learned over last year, US and UK models are only a polished image created by complete lack of objective reporting. At least in Russia, there are journalists who try, but instead of giving credit, this is used against Russia. Just think about it, are there any brave journalists like Estemirova or Politkovskaya in UK or US? I do not think so. So, please continue to believe that you live in such a perfect part of the world. It is easy to do when you watch Holliwood movies and take everything they say on ForeignPolicy.com as a solid proof.
[info]emelya09 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 06:55 pm (UTC)
Compare loads of anti-Russian books on the market in the West, thousands of newspaper articles on "inhuman" Russians, scores of movies and TV programs demonizing Russia in the last century at the behest of monstrous anti-Russia propagandists, with their think-tanks and millions of dollars committed to training journalists, NGO's personnel, etc.... with a miniscule amount devoted to the same in Russia.

And, oh yes, the below mediocre command of the languages in the West in general (never mind the proverbial US "successes" therein) to ensure obedience to official "democratic" version of history...
"solid evidence"
[info]fin_d_empire wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 04:54 pm (UTC)
By spelling Shiite s-h-i-t-e you give us solid evidence that you're an ignorant moron and corroborate it by proving that either you don't know what a link is, of which my post had many, or are too lazy to read the linked news stories. That's enough time wasted on you. Begone, fool.
[info]emelya09 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 06:57 pm (UTC)
The only "solid" item here is the thickness of your scull, comrade!
[info]heineken1234 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 02:58 pm (UTC)
For some reason all articles published by Independent on foreign affairs, sound as if they were written by Miliband. Perhaps it's time to change your name to Dependent or Labour Dependent?
[info]rex123 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 06:50 pm (UTC)
"...From the inside the renovated houses did not look so beautiful, with no interior works done, and no proper utilities ensured." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Excuse me, but 90% of Russian new residential real estate is sold "pod chistovuyu otdelku" which means that to make a unit cheaper instalation of utilities, laminat or plastic or parket floors, type of wall paper or just material over the concreet wall is made by the owner - there is the whole industry specialising on it in Russia - if you buy a new appartment - you spend couple of months on doing it - it is everywhere here like that and many find it normal because it gives them opportunity to chose colour, make and type of everything. There are few buidings which are construsted with appartments "pod kluch" which means that everything is in place -"kluch" means a key in Russian and this phrase means that you just open the door with your key and start living there without no any further works to do...Why I am stressing this "unimportant" thing here - only because it shows that Ms. Estemirova was exactly targeting Western audience by her writing - everybody in Russia knows that it is normality, but she is trying to put down Kadyrov even in such a small thing and in not a honest way...Well, it says a lot and gives reason to evaluate any her writing with suspicion at least. AGAIN, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WHAT HAPPENED TO HER WAS NOT A CRIME - IT WAS.
Now, why is it not mentioned that all those abductions were commited exactly by Kadyrov's enemies - it was one of reasons to fight separatists to stop their abducting people there...Again - I have no idea who killed her, my condolences to her family, but the truth should become known. Was her writing a truth? Was her writing biased? Where is the analises, where is journalism? What I see hear hardly can be called truth...
[info]emelya09 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 07:02 pm (UTC)
As a former translator myself, I am ready to support the notion of the American and the UK audiences being fed the "comfortable" fodder of half-truths and such to keep the public perennially biased about all things Russian.
Where is proof of US death squads??
[info]joeturner wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 06:58 pm (UTC)

SORRY, FIN_D_EMPIRE, we're still looking for documented proof of US involvement in the death squads.

If spelling closes off all discussion, then try Shi'ite. I read your links carefully and there was NO indication whatsoever of US involvement. So not to make yourself look stupid and 'knee-jerk' anti-American, give us some documented proof. (As I say, your logo gives you away.)
Re: Where is proof of US death squads??
[info]emelya09 wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 07:08 pm (UTC)
Dear Joe!

Please, turn your attention no to the fin_d_empire's links and quotes, but to the official record in the American eternally-free press. Do come back and contribute your findings and leave the venting to the hapless masses
[info]bkalex wrote:
Friday, 17 July 2009 at 11:57 pm (UTC)
This is a quite controversial death? I think, besause this new has been massively supported by the West and Russian TV!!! The pro democracy channels are clearly blaming the Russian authority for this death but pro Russian's just experssed thier condolences. where the thuth is? we will never know!!! Nothing has been changed in mass media for ages? it's just given to me remembering about 19-20 centuries. Soo predictable and boring. i am not able to understand why we have to pay TV licence and buy those news newspapers.All the time is the simmilar collonist and reporters? The same style and the same people on the screens and in the press for last 20 years. When will they die as the dinosaurs?why knows? we will see it? no chance!!!om
Where is proof of US death squads??
[info]joeturner wrote:
Saturday, 18 July 2009 at 08:35 am (UTC)

The UK press is filled with unsubstantiated accusations about all manner of things. The number of newspapers here that report substantiated facts and quotations are becoming fewer and fewer. Most of the UK press print editorials and opinions as facts. The front page of the Daily Mail is always opinion, wild prediction of the horror that faces the UK. The latest was a 'senior military figure', never identified, who said that the UK soldier is ill equipped.

These comments in this discussion are equally without fact-support. When I ask for documentation, I get a flip remark about spelling, or a vague reference to the American free press. Never solid evidence.

I read the Wash Post and NYTimes link daily and have never seen a ref to American-Shiite Death Squads, so I AM STILL WAITING FOR SOME SOLID PROOF FROM YOU or an admission that you are full of it.
Re: Where is proof...??
[info]pordus wrote:
Saturday, 18 July 2009 at 05:17 pm (UTC)
In general, I agree about your comments about really low standards prevailing in the media these days. I am equally eagerly awaiting solid evidence of such "established facts" as "Iraq had WMD", "KGB killed Litvinenko on order from Putin", "Russia started the war with Georgia", or even that "Kadirov killed Estemirova".
Re: Where is proof...??
[info]famulla wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 01:30 am (UTC)
Hitler killed many Re: Where is proof...?? You are broke because of Tony the Blaze Re: Where is proof...?? Bush took UK to wars Re: Where is proof...?? Obama is going in/out 2011 Re: Where is proof...?? plane crashed in the Bermuda Triangel the Holy Place Re: Where is proof...?? If you ask me we have none Miko doctor killed Miko Re: Where is proof...?? The train runs slow these days Re: Where is proof...?? stop asking Re: Where is proof...?? IT IS THE DEATH THAT MATTERS NOW
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla
Good propaganda.
[info]l_barker wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 09:14 am (UTC)
Need to pay more money and hire another five specialists like she.

ps Very important: need to kill without pity all of them - if they arrive in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Forbidden to publish articles of "terrorists rights defenders" - from Iraq and Afghanistan.
Why FSB is not adopting this tactics from the US/UK collegues
[info]vlad545 wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 11:31 am (UTC)
This is hardly exaggeration that US and UK guys (MI6 and CIA) just do (promote and kill) this people like Estemirova, Politkovskaia, Hlebnikov etc. If they didn't "do" them there was nothing to write about Russia, there was nothing to drag attention to, there was nothing to picture "barbaric" Russia in the news media what these bastards do since 18th century. I guess the next victim will be Berezovskiy. Just his time is delayed in the CIA/MI6 schedule.
Why not
[info]vlad545 wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 11:46 am (UTC)
Why Russians have not built yet a new GULAG in Siberia and just take these m* fu* US/UK "journalists" and keep them there? Or build a new Tribunal (something similar to Hague Tribunal) again in Siberia for these people and convict them in dozens for systematically misinforming public opinion. A good reason to have a couple of such independent "journalists" hanged, of cause, after a trial:)
Re: Why not
[info]dashamonrovia wrote:
Sunday, 19 July 2009 at 07:42 pm (UTC)
VladtheDrac,
Do you still bay for blood? Go out in the night looking for human flesh? If you really want people to think Russia barbaric, keep posting your blood thirsty nonsense and they won't have to look far. A brave and courageous woman was murdered. It scarcely matters who by. And then morons like you sit there at their computers raging at journalists who report it. BRAVE MAN! So brave! You must be proud of yourself. What an absolute monkey you are.
To Dasha or Glasha (with a kasha in her head)
[info]vlad545 wrote:
Monday, 20 July 2009 at 10:48 am (UTC)
Glasha you missed the point. The post was about UK/US "journalism" - a well done campaign let say for the 10 last years - discrediting Russia and who is behind it. And stupid enough you mentioned it doesn't matter who who kills the journalists.... That's really a confirmation the female brain is 20% lighter than the one of males. Looks like any male chimpanzee apprehends today's situation better compared to those like Glasha.
Re: To Dasha or Glasha (with a kasha in her head)
[info]dashamonrovia wrote:
Monday, 20 July 2009 at 08:35 pm (UTC)
No, I didn't miss the point. Who killed her is absolutely to the point, but to witter on like a pompous ass about journalists who report it, and offer an opinion as though they are all part of a conspiracy is such a load of rubbish. I suppose the nice Russian journalists who put their propoganda, oh sorry, 'views' on Russia Today in the West, wouldn't for one moment speculate on 'who' did it would they? Nasty, nasty Western types, of course!
By the way, I don't know who pays you to write this rubbish, but it must be peanuts - pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
Racist, sexist, chauvinist - really, does any woman, even your grandmother, actually like you? You really are a sad weirdo.

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