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Ossetians warm to Moscow's embrace

A year after Georgia and Russia fought over the tiny territory, fears of a land grab are not unfounded. Shaun Walker reports

South Ossetians mark the anniversary of the conflict in Tskhinvali yesterday

afp/getty images

South Ossetians mark the anniversary of the conflict in Tskhinvali yesterday

Ayear on from last August's war, the evidence on the ground shows that despite claims to the contrary, tiny South Ossetia has effectively been absorbed into Russia, adding fuel to Georgia's claims that Russia's aim in the war was to annex Georgian territory.

Thousands gathered in the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali this weekend to mark a year since Georgia launched an attack to regain the breakaway territory. Alongside remembrance of the roughly 200 Ossetians who died in the war, there were also celebrations of the territory's "independence", officially recognised by Russia in the aftermath of the conflict.

Residents of Tskhinvali gathered in the town's main square late on Friday night for a concert that started at 11.35pm, roughly the time that the Georgian assault on South Ossetia began. Tragic musical compositions were interspersed with moments of silence, as the crowd was played images of last year's war on a big screen. Alongside shots of those who died was footage of Georgia's President, Mikheil Saakashvili, and the then US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice. Russia and South Ossetia have accused Washington of encouraging Georgia to launch its attack last year.

Shortly after midnight, the breakaway state's President, Eduard Kokoity, took to the stage, adorned with a huge South Ossetian flag on one side and a Russian flag on the other, and addressed the crowds. "Thanks to the bravery of Ossetian and Russian soldiers, the evil plans that were hatched not just in Tbilisi but over the ocean were thwarted," he said. "South Ossetia is now a free and independent country."

Despite the fact that the unpleasant history between the two ethnic groups means that Ossetians do not want to be part of Georgia, the idea of South Ossetia as a genuinely independent state is absurd. Analysts say that Abkhazia, the other statelet that claims independence from Georgia and was recognised by Russia after last summer's war, may have more of a chance of existence as an independent state – it has a Black Sea coastline, a tourist industry and a small agricultural sector.

South Ossetia is a different story. The territory is tiny, the population is no larger than 70,000, and there is no local industry, infrastructure, currency or airport. The only real option for South Ossetia, if it is not to be part of Georgia, is for it to become part of Russia. The Ossetians are a distinct ethnic group that speak a Farsi-related language, and the majority of them live in North Ossetia, which is part of Russia. There is a long-standing desire among the people to unite the two Ossetias. The Russians, while happy to exercise de facto control over the territory, do not want South Ossetia to join the country formally, as this would suggest that the war last year was indeed about annexation, not liberation.

Shortly after last year's war, Mr Kokoity said that South Ossetia would join Russia, only for Russia's Foreign Minister, Sergey Lavrov, to come out and say that South Ossetia "doesn't want to join with anyone" and that journalists must have misunderstood. Last week, Mr Kokoity again expressed his opinion that one day his territory would be assimilated by Russia, only to deny this later, presumably after a phone call from Moscow.

But despite the carefully worded denials from Moscow, South Ossetia is, in effect, already part of Russia. Ninety-eight per cent of the population have Russian passports; everybody speaks Russian; the rouble is the currency; and most of the budget comes from Russian aid. The Russians have built a new military base on the outskirts of Tskhinvali, and officially have 800 troops in the territory. The real figure is thought to be up to 4,000.

In the new, Russian-controlled South Ossetia, there is no space for the thousands of ethnic Georgians who once lived here. A short drive north from Tskhinvali is the village of Tamarasheni. Before the war, this was a Georgian enclave, controlled by the Tbilisi government and populated with Georgian families. There was a bank, a school, and all the infrastructure of a functioning Georgian town. In the days after the Georgian army was flushed out of South Ossetia, Tamarasheni was torched and looted, and now there is not a soul living there.

On land just past one edge of the village, however, some of which was formerly occupied by the gardens and vineyards of Georgian houses, a new property development is being built, one of the few construction projects in South Ossetia to be realised since last year's war.

The Moskovsky development, funded by the Moscow city government, will provide luxury housing for 800 families. Moscow's controversial mayor Yury Luzhkov has been actively purchasing property and investing in both South Ossetia and Abkhazia – , so much so that, three years ago, the name of one of Tskhinvali's main thoroughfares was changed from Tbilisi Street to Luzhkov Street. (The town's three main roads are now named after the intriguing troika of Lenin, Stalin and Luzhkov.)

All across the territory of South Ossetia, ethnic Georgian areas have been destroyed as the Russian influence grows. The Ossetian village of Dnenisi is just a few miles from Tskhinvali, further along the border with Georgia proper. It's a simple village of a few hundred people, and the scene this week was of an almost Tolstoyan peasant reverie – women carrying scythes and bundles of hay, and walking through the village among the livestock; men working in the fields. But beneath the calm exterior, emotions here run high.

Between Dnenisi and Tskhinvali was a Georgian village, Eredvi. This village was controlled by Tbilisi until last summer, and there were hundreds of Georgian families living there. The residents of Dnenisi say that in order to get to Tskhinvali they had to take a circuitous route of over 50 miles, because the Georgian guards standing watch over their exclave wouldn't let them through. When the war came last August, say the Ossetians of Dnenisi, 800 Georgian soldiers swept through their village. Most were able to escape in time, but four elderly residents who stayed behind were killed.

Afterwards, Ossetian vigilantes from Dnenisi and elsewhere in Ossetia burnt neighbouring Eredvi to the ground, and now the villagers can drive to Tskhinvali in just a few minutes, past the collapsing shells of the houses that once belonged to their Georgian neighbours.

"Of course it's sad to see the houses in ruins, but the Georgians brought it on themselves," says Teiran Bestayev, a 50-year-old Dnenisi resident. "For 20 years there has been no real life here. They treated us like dirt. Now we finally have an independent Ossetia and don't have to be humiliated."

There is no doubt whom the villagers thank for this. "All our lives Russia has been saving us," says Mr Bestayev. "It's down to Russia and Vladimir Putin that we're still alive. We'll always be together with Russia, and if there was a referendum we'd all vote to formally join up with Russia; we'd be running to the ballot boxes to vote!"

Less than 20 miles from Dnenisi is the Georgian city of Gori, which was heavily bombed and briefly occupied by Russian forces as part of its blistering military response to the Georgian attack on South Ossetia. On Friday, President Saakashvili was giving his own speech to mark what the Georgians claim was the start of the war – a Russian invasion of South Ossetia.

He vowed that Georgia would one day regain control of its breakaway territory. "Our future will not be written in a hostile, faraway, frigid capital," he told a crowd of thousands, who had come to mark the date despite the heavy summer rain.

Unfortunately for him, the reality in South Ossetia suggests that this is exactly what has happened.

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Question
[info]pordus wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 02:21 am (UTC)
"...the idea of South Ossetia as a genuinely independent state is absurd..."

Would any major British newspaper ever state that the idea of Kosovo as a genuinely independent state is even more absurd? Where is your freedom of speech, or where is your basic logic, UK?
recognise independance of S.Ossetia and Abhazia
[info]rex123 wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 10:23 am (UTC)

The best way for everybody (even for Georgia) in this situation is to recognise independance of S.Ossetia and Abhazia. The sooner the better.
Re: recognise independance of S.Ossetia and Abhazia
[info]vitaliy1973 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 09:21 am (UTC)
creation of genius
Re: recognise independance of S.Ossetia and Abhazia
[info]rex123 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 09:53 am (UTC)

inscription under the portrait -"creation of genius" - Vitaliy, you mean the photo or the one depicted ?(joke)
Re: recognise independance of S.Ossetia and Abhazia
[info]vitaliy1973 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 05:58 pm (UTC)
funnily.HA-HA/regards out of russia.
As usual, the West is on the wrong side
[info]mstamper wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 11:23 am (UTC)
Mikheil Saakashvili (Georgia's President) committed a brutal and unprovoked crime against innocent civilians when he ordered the bombing of South Ossetia last year. It's obvious that the Ossetians want to become part of Russia. Why are their wishes viewed as inconsequential by the West? The Georgians treated the Ossetians like slaves. They lost the moral right to rule this territory. We in the West should forget about power politics for a change and agree to the formal annexation of South Ossetia by Russia. At the same time, we should assist Georgians living in Ossetia in their return to Georgia. President Saakashvili should be sacked (peacefully of course) by his own people. Why can't we help settle ethnic conflict for a change, instead of stoking ethnic hatred to achieve obscure geopolitical goals (i.e. the "containment" of Russia)?
Re: As usual, the West is on the wrong side
[info]walterwall wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 02:17 pm (UTC)
Spot on.
[info]walterwall wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 12:07 pm (UTC)
What I can't understand is why, if the South Ossetians want to be allied with Russia, they shouldn't. What right does Georgia (which, after all, claims the right to tam up with NATO) have to tell the South Ossettians what to do?
[info]leo0 wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 12:53 pm (UTC)
Very Nice article


Russians got different interests over there which more than territory and couple of thousand osetians they are just using for these interests

It's all about NATO, alternative energy routes to Europe
& the lesson for other neighbouring countries and the world that they are strong, but reality is they are SICKKK
& making poor osetians foolish 17 years thy ve been there with guns what have thy done except mess

@ REX123 & Pordus
With your frame of mind where is Chechnya

[info]pordus wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 02:55 pm (UTC)
Chechnya is exceedingly easy to explain (below). Moreover, it is amazing that these obvious things still need to be explained after 20 years of Chechen problems. Well, recently it took only a year for Western media to except the fact that Saakashvilli started the war in Ossetia. Somehow, anti-Russian spin is more important than the truth. I am laughing when they criticize Russian media for being controlled, such a hypocritical thought :)

Anyway, the problems in Chechnya perfectly fit into the context of international terrorism and the spread of Muslim fundamentalism. Wahhabi fundamentalists gained power in Chechnya in the chaos of early 90s when almost anyone could grab power in Russian regions - this is also time when mafia and corruption spread around Russia like a plague. Just for your information, Wahhabism was never practiced by Chechens in the past and it was a good example of Saudi-Arabia's export. All the sudden the Sharia laws replaced civil laws, women lost their rights, public executions became common - sounds like a great idea for Checnhya, right? Well, it was not where it stopped - soon Chechen fundamentalists (exploiting widely common anti-Russian sentiments in the West and presenting themselves as freedom fighters) started insurgencies in neighboring Russian republics.

In principle, Russia does not care about Chechen independence, but the stakes of Russia in Chechnya are much higher than NATO's stakes in Afghanistan - because it is next door. If UK and USA are afraid of fundamentalists thousands of miles away from their main land, how come it is so difficult to understand Russians?
[info]rex123 wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 03:28 pm (UTC)


leo0 wrote : "@ REX123 & Pordus
With your frame of mind where is Chechnya" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Exelent question leo! Chechnya started to challenge Russia in 1994 and then in 1999 (2 wars) - both of those wars WERE BEFORE THE KOSOVO PRECEDENT!!!!- which means that those days there was an international law on territorial integrity and Russia was acting withing the international law preventing separation of Chechnya. In the begining of 2008 this Law was effectivelly anihilated by United States by the precedent in KOSOVO - I think you know what is precedent in the systen of Law?...So by august 2008 the matter of separation and independance became NOT REGULATED BY INTERNATIONA LAW (ruined by USA in Kosovo), but became just a matter of politics....Your question is really exelent because it shows double standarts of USA - Russia follows their own precedent and so it is exactly within international norms now...
[info]pordus wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 03:40 pm (UTC)
Did I say that the so-called Chechen freedom fighters committed many brutal acts of terrorism on Russian land, including Moscow. That's why Russian president was first to express his condolences to Americans after 9/11. Russians had a lot of sympathy for what happened in the US because they already experienced terror from religious extremists.

Just note that when US and UK supported Chechen fundamentalists and Muslim fanatics against Russia, they repeated their earlier mistake - their unconditional support to fundamentalists (Taliban or Mojaheddins) in the earlier war in Afghanistan between USSR and these same fundamentalists.

BTW, did you ever think about why Russian problems in Chechnya were very quickly solved after 9/11? Many credit Putin's military intervention (that started after Chechen "freedom fighters" started military operations in the neighboring republics). In fact, there is a more significant factor - Americans froze many financial accounts that fed Chechen extremists. It took 9/11 to help Americans to understand who they were financing.
There is a lot of ignorance about the background
[info]stewartpa wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 12:56 pm (UTC)
South Ossetia is Georgian. It just happens to be an area of land that lies at one end of a tunnel from Russia. Strategically therefore, without being able to control the Georgian end of the tunnel, the Russians have a serious problem. Other routes to the Black Sea ports for example are extremely difficult. Moscow has therefore employed a familiar tactic, well tuned during the decades of communism (and used in many other countries today, China for example) of encouraging population movement from North Ossetia to squeeze the Georgians out and then play the ethnic/indigenous card to obtain the moral highground. Hey presto! The world is hoodwinked into believing what bad people the Georgians are.
Re: There is a lot of ignorance about the background
[info]pordus wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 03:49 pm (UTC)
- "South Ossetia is Georgian."

You wish!

BTW, do you realize that what you say is equivalent to "Kosovo is Serbian".
or "Chechnya is Russian", or "Ireland is British", or ... you get the idea
Re: There is a lot of ignorance about the background
[info]rex123 wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 04:13 pm (UTC)

stewarpa wrote : "South Ossetia is Georgian..." and "...Other routes to the Black Sea ports for example are extremely difficult"---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ha-ha-ha! What age did you drop from school - 8 y.o. ? Look at the map - which Black Sea ports do you mean and where is S.Ossetia? Total BS! There is no route to Russia's Black Sea ports through Ossetia...As for Ossetia, why it is Georgian if Ossetians live there since 18 century, while Georgia those years was not even a unified state!? - there were several principalities actually and there were even no such a unified state as Georgia in 18 century at the territory which they now claim. Total BS. During the civil war of 1918-1920 which folloved the Russian revolution of 1917, Georgia got its independance from Russian Empire and immidiatelly decided to annex neighbouring Ossetia - the was a war which ended with bolsheviks invading BOTH countries and subsiquintly in 1922 Stalin (who was "people's commisar" (minister) of nationalities in Lenin's government and General Secretary of Communist Party since 1922) - gave this country to Georgia as autonomy (he did the same with Abhazia by the way, which also had never been Georgian) - we know that he (Stalin) was Georgian himself - so nobody is surprised (exept for you stewartpa and tacohead)...
Re: There is a lot of ignorance about the background
[info]stewartpa wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 08:40 pm (UTC)
rex123 - I suggest that you look at the map. South Ossetia lies at one end of a tunnel built under the Greater Caucasian mountain range. Once through the tunnel there is easy access to the Black Sea through Georgia. Northern Ossetians started moving in numbers from North Ossetia to the area now better known as South Ossetia around 1800 and settled in the estates of the Georgian feudal lords. The Georgian's history of settlement in the area goes back 2000 years hence their rather strong insistence that it belongs to them. Your quotes of the ping-pong played with Georgia by the Russians over the last 200 hundred years are irrelevant to establishing who has the greater claim in the dispute over that part of Georgia.

Georgia's stance on Abkhazia is totally different so don't equate one with the other.
Re: There is a lot of ignorance about the background
[info]rex123 wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 09:47 pm (UTC)
stewartpa: "Your quotes of the ping-pong played with Georgia by the Russians over the last 200 hundred years are irrelevant to establishing who has the greater claim in the dispute over that part of Georgia."------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------And was it important in Kosovo where Kosovars arived only after WW2?.... As for Russian "ping-pong" to your information- Georgia was desperate betveen two major Islamic Powers - Ottoman Empire and Persia there in 1800( both of which were subjugating it in turns) -being afraid to be enslaved by muslim Power and being Christian (no need to explain consiquensies for those feudals of that time whom you mentioned)- Georgian rules applied to Russia to be incorporated - all their nobility got equivalent titles in Russia (Georgian princes in Russian Empire were several times more numerous then those Russian, despite Georgian population was 50 times less then that of Russia), no any piece of land was confiscated from a Georgian owner - instead many of them aquired lands in Russia in adition to their's in Georgia as well, they were among the elite of Russian nobility (Bagration, Chavchavadse etc.) AND THEY NEVER REVOLTED!!! Instead they were on Russian military service fighting for Russians in Chechnya - so, please, leave those tears for those who know nothing about Georgia. ...As for Black Sea ports - the main Russian Black Sea port is Novorosiisk (get a map and study it), -which ports do you mean? Don't you know there is no railway in S.Ossetia and in that tonnel - what a BS! - to climb on donkeys to the Black Sea ? What are you talking about?, even not interesting to discuss such nonsence...
Re: There is a lot of ignorance about the background
[info]stewartpa wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 07:51 am (UTC)
Try looking up the Roki tunnel on the web and you will see that it is one of a handful of crossings of the Greater Caucasian mountains. This is why the Russians will not leave Georgia alone. Georgia is a sovereign state and it includes South Ossetia. The dispute between Georgia and the South Ossetian separatists is relatively recent and is stoked by Russia. The history between these two groups pre-dates Russian involvement by over a thousand years that is why I say ignore the recent ping-pong. Prior to Russian involvement these two groups lived together for many hundreds of years.

By the way why is there a railway station in Tskhinvali if there is no railway in SO?

Also please don't keep raising Kosovo it's not relevant to the discussion.
Re: There is a lot of ignorance about the background
[info]rex123 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 08:59 am (UTC)
Dear stewartpa - you are a brilliant opponent in a discussion - what you mentioned is exactly what I am trying to prove - Ossetians and Georgians FOR CENTURIES were peacefull neighbours BECAUSE OSETIANS AND GEORGIANS WERE INDEPENDENT FROM EACH OTHER - the conflict started in 1920 when Georgians decided to anex S.Ossetia (not Russians, but Georgian menshevik nationalist government), then bolsheviks (Red Army- or Russians if you want to call it so, although Red Army was pretty international in content)) invaded both countries and in 1922 Stalin (Georgian himself included S.Ossetia into Georgia - were he a Russian, there would be no decigion to give Ossetia as autonomy to his Georgia - its quite clear why he did it)...Then - it is more important to decide what to do next for people so that they not start killing each other again - although ofcource you may go and dig out bolshevik's and Stalin's corpses out of the tombs and try to accuse them and somehow punish (interesting to see how you'll do it)- but how will it help now?...As for railwaystation - it is not functioning - the railway was connecting Tshinwal to Gori (1940-1991), since 1991 not in operation - but I am saying about railway from Russia through the tonnel - there is no such and never was - without railway connecting ports with the country - what for the ports needed? - look at Novorosiisk - the biggest port and railway and all infrastructure in place - the more you argue the more opportunity you give me to ruin your point of view. Be well.
Re: There is a lot of ignorance about the background
[info]stewartpa wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 01:52 pm (UTC)
The Georgians wanted and have achieved independence from Russia. The South Ossetians are reluctant to continue as part of Georgia and have therefore continued to seek to remain close to Russia. The Georgians see this as a threat especially as SO is currently recognised as part of Georgia. The conflict between Georgia and SO arose as a direct result of the Soviet/Russian policy of divide and rule and coming to a head after the 1917 revolution. It is likely that at this point the centuries of peaceful co-existence and trust disappeared. We now have the situation where, in living memory, atrocious acts have been committed by both sides on each other and this is now driving the situation. In other words the Russian policy persists though it is now being played out by two seemingly independent groups each claiming that they have an iron clad case. They are both victims. They both need to recognise what has brought them to this point and start talking.

Novorosiisk is over 500 kilometres from Batumi. This means that Batumi is strategically important to the Russians (militarily and economically). It is also key key to Georgia hence why the Russians blockaded it.
Re: There is a lot of ignorance about the background
[info]rex123 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 04:16 pm (UTC)

The Russians blocaded Poti, not Batumi - but what is interesting is that you are thinking like real imperialist - you just can't stop - Batumi, then maybe acses to Indian ocean through Pakistan, then India, then Australia etc. - wait a minute - where did I come across with this geographical route? - wow, those are the steps of British Empire - maybe you confused smth. stewartpa? - looks like you play here dreams of your own country, which it once managed to fulfil ! Go there and explain Pakistani and Indians that "They are both victims. They both need to recognise what has brought them to this point and start talking." - also invite Bangladesh to negotiations and wait then to reunite
- don't you see absurdity of all your advice and conclusions....Really, motivation of your strange conclusions is not your desire to help avoid bloodshed, but your paranoid hate towards Russia - you need to heal yourself and face reality - and the reality is that Russia wants just to settle the conflict so that there will be no more wars in the region, especially in the region which is neighbouring us. What are interests of those far away countries as USA and others- up to you to find out...
Re: There is a lot of ignorance about the background
[info]stewartpa wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 04:57 pm (UTC)
Thank you for your correction re Poti - I was confusing it with the base that the US recently visited. I am sorry that you have wandered off the track of discussing the facts or perceptions that underlie the tragedy and resorted to making invalid analogies. Each case is different and this should be respected.

Strange then that Russia did not seek to mediate between the two sides but rather it chose to continue to reinforce SO by issuing them with Russian passports. Russia is trying to protect itself in the event that Georgia does go ahead and join Nato. Understandable but with unfortunate consequences.


Presumably if I was Italian you would accuse me of trying to rebuild the Roman Empire or a German the Third Reich or a Russian ....?
Re: There is a lot of ignorance about the background
[info]rex123 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 06:07 pm (UTC)
"Presumably if I was Italian you would accuse me of trying to rebuild the Roman Empire or a German the Third Reich or a Russian ....?" -----------------------------Yes, but it is not an acusation (don't take it personally) - it is just a metaphor to make it more visible for you, that 1. there is nothing that makes 19-20 century Russia more evil then Britain, or France or Spain or Portugal, or Germany, or USA or even Netherlands and Denmark - those political rules were the same those years towards smaller dependant countries all over the world 2. Those sins of the past doesn't justify accusations in today's imperialistic intensions - so your argumentation about how Russia "ruined" friendship of little each-other-loving georgians and ossetians - is the same like blaming UK, France and Portugal for all the conflicts in Africa of today...It is possible to issue a passport only is person applies for it - Ossetians rejected to take georgian passports and so were unable to travel, to get pensions, to get married and to register newborn kids - naturally they applied for Russian citisenship (if it was possible to get UK passports - they would do it, but you in UK prefer to give your passports to islamists who will evantually enslave you all in your own country (but it is another story), so poor Chrisrian ossetians applied to Russian citisenship - I don't see anything bad in it). Russia was trying to mediate betveen them since 1992 - up to the moment of Saakashvili's attack oficial position of Russia was that S.Ossetia and Abhazia were Georgian territory. Saakashvilli's murderous attack changed everything.
Re: There is a lot of ignorance about the background
[info]stewartpa wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 08:21 pm (UTC)
I think you should do some research on the internet into Russia's role in this conflict. You may or may not trust the sources but they do base their views on many provable facts. Enjoy your reading and thank you for the discussion.
Re: There is a lot of ignorance about the background
[info]vitaliy1973 wrote:
Tuesday, 11 August 2009 at 06:57 am (UTC)
bravo.whence are such knowledge?
[info]tacohead wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 01:52 pm (UTC)
Nothing is new here. The Russian policy always have been creating buffer zones. Through the history the Russians invaded neighbouring countries with further annexation of their territories ( Finland, Baltic states, Poland, Hungary, Romania etc etc.) And it seems that the Russians always get away with it!
[info]pordus wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 04:00 pm (UTC)
Even if there is some truth to what you say about the buffers, it is actually very easy to understand if you only try. In its history Russia was very frequently attacked from the West by Germans, Poles, Swedes, French, etc. In many cases, the invasions were brutal and were devastating for Russia. Why should Russia feel safe when NATO (with hardly hidden anti-Russian sentiments) encircles Russia all the way from North to South.
[info]tacohead wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 06:31 pm (UTC)
Your Slav logic is stupid, it's understandable, Romans invaded Britain, but Britain never annexed their territory.
[info]pordus wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 02:05 am (UTC)
this is racist
[info]tacohead wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 08:25 am (UTC)
Do not start preaching about racism! I have been to Russia several times and I haven't seen other country so racist as Russia. And it's on governmental level. And your media most racist in the world!
TACOHEAD, FIX YOUR HEAD
[info]rex123 wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 09:32 am (UTC)

He has been to Russia several times and hates it so much - interesting what he was doing here? Maybe helping islamists in Chechnya or liason person betveen them and Al-Queda? One can only gess...
[info]pordus wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 01:01 pm (UTC)
Weather you have been to Russia or not is a very weak excuse for being a racist. FYI, I live in Canada and I do not have a very thick skin to your racist comments. Are you from some some Baltic state? I sense you participated in too many government sponsored SS celebrations and got too used to anti-Slavic racism.
[info]rex123 wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 04:34 pm (UTC)

tacohead - "And it seems that the Russians always get away with it! "------------------------------------------------------Yee, and Brits never did...
Stop believing Saakashvili's Georgia
[info]barmalei279 wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 05:36 pm (UTC)
Pordus, thank you very much for the truth, and you too, rex123, we need some common sense.
The article is rather terrible, absurdly implying that the the main reason for the war was Russia's desire to grab a piece of landlocked mountainous land that doesn't have any minerals in it, but is full of all kinds of problems. How ridiculous.

Re: Stop believing Saakashvili's Georgia
[info]tacohead wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 07:11 pm (UTC)
"Stop believing Saakashvili's Georgia" and start believing Putin's KGB Russia!! Ha-ha-ha-ha!!!
Re: Stop believing Saakashvili's Georgia
[info]rex123 wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 09:08 pm (UTC)

tacohead wrote: "Your Slav logic is stupid, it's understandable, Romans invaded Britain, but Britain never annexed their territory". ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not Slav, but you are definitelly a racist (given your words). I can not say that your logic is stupid only because you have no logic at all, so let's compromise - not your logics, but you yourselve is STUPID - I didn't mean Romans and Brits as ancient tribe - since you can't wreck your brains, ok, simpler for you - Great Britain and its invasions to India, Africa, all over the world - get it now?
Re: Stop believing Saakashvili's Georgia
[info]pordus wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 04:02 pm (UTC)
Well, what do you expect - he has a taco in his head :)
Was it Shaun Walker or the Guardian editor
[info]mhenriday wrote:
Sunday, 9 August 2009 at 11:19 pm (UTC)
who decided that the little capital of South Ossetia, called by the residents Tskhinval, is to be written as Tskhinvali, the Georgian name, everywhere it occurs in the article ? Whoever made the decision it was not only unwise - and misleading to readers as it does not reflect the current situation - but also rather typically petty....

Henri
truth about the conflict
[info]svetavalieva wrote:
Monday, 10 August 2009 at 04:36 pm (UTC)
It's interesting you call it annexation when if it wasn't for Russia's assistance the what you call "tiny" population of South Ossetia would have been wiped out off the face of the earch. By the way, more than 200 died last year. The number is around a 1000. FYI, Ossetia was independent of Georgia historically and because part of Georgia only because Stalin gave it away (along with Abkhazia) in order to get Georgia to become part of the USSR. Why would South Ossetia be part of Georgia after their multiple attempts at genocide? Being part of Russia is not only better economically but safer for the population. Georgia claims that their attack on the opening night of the olypic games in Beijing was a result of the provocations from South Ossetia. Even if true, does that really justify the merciless bombing of the innocent civilians in Tskhinval? Do you know that they called their operation "clean field"? You figure what that means... and check your facts before spewing your opinions online.

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