Deborah Orr: If this registrar had 'Christian views', why did she ever take on the job?
Saturday, 12 July 2008
Lillian Ladele is an odd sort of Christian. The north London registrar has won what is being described as a "landmark legal battle" that exempts her from carrying out civil partnerships. Her conscience will not allow her to conduct such unions, she says, because "I hold the orthodox Christian view that marriage is the union of one man and one woman for life and this is the God-ordained place for sexual relations".
This can only lead one to wonder why on earth Ladele opted to become a registrar in the first place. After all, people who wish their unions to be God-ordained generally marry in a church. It is strange for a person who has such a strong belief that marriage is "God-ordained" to enter a profession which concerns itself with conducting legal rather than religious marriages. And that's leaving aside the problem whereby most "orthodox Christians" tend not to believe a woman has any place in consecrating what Ladele describes –erroneously in this case – as a God-ordained relationship at all.
Anyway, why did Ladele's religious beliefs not surface until civil partnerships became part of the mix? Had Ladele not already asked to be exempt from marrying people who had been married already, or had had children already, or had had sexual relations outside marriage already?
I'm amazed that Ladele's religious beliefs ever allowed her to carry out any marriages in racy old Islington. It is clear that Ladele's appeal to scripture logically prohibits her from ever marrying any people, of any gender, who are not virgins or who believe in divorce. Ladele's "orthodox Christian" views, I fear, are manipulated entirely to suit her own private agenda.
Isn't it suspect that Ladele applies her beliefs so strictly only when gay people are involved? Christ never made any recorded reference to homosexuality. He did suggest that marriage was the only appropriate setting for sexual intercourse. But he did concede that there were various reasons why a person may not choose to marry. That's it. Very tolerant.
This teaching leads many Christians to believe that people are quite entitled to enter into all kinds of relationships without upsetting Christ. This is exactly the liberal idea that threatens schism in the Anglican Church, and exactly the one that must have guided Ladele into believing it was fine to be a civil registrar, facilitating non-religious marriages. Plenty of Christians who consider themselves as close to God as Ladele believe it is absolutely fine to be gay, very splendid to be in a settled and loving relationship, and utterly great to wish to proclaim it publicly and secure for it a legal basis. Ladele has every right to agree with the conservatives. But the further right this tribunal has mistakenly conferred enshrines her contestable religious belief as above the law. It is clearly gay sex Ladele objects to, not all non-marital sex, so her appeal to religious scruple is vexatious.
I have no difficulty with tolerating people whose views are strange to me, even abhorrent, unless they are doing harm to others, or breaking the law. People can be as homophobic as they like, as long as they keep it to themselves. I don't think people do harm by refusing to conduct civil ceremonies, if they don't want to, as long as they accept that their private wish to defy the law of the land is one that they are personally responsible for. Ladele is at liberty never to conduct a civil ceremony as long as she lives. But that ought to stop her, as a matter of conscientious objection, from being a registrar at all.
Already there has been much irresponsible speculation about the implications of this silly and misguided ruling. It has been mentioned that Muslims might now claim the right in supermarkets to refuse to handle alcohol or pork. Only, surely, if they had good reason to be utterly surprised at the nature of their duties.
I do have some sympathy with Ladele. She had no way of knowing, when she became a registrar, that performing civil partnerships would become one of her duties. I dislike fundamentalism of any kind, and if I'd been Ladele's boss I might have quietly accommodated her stubborn views, rather than risk getting to this stage.
There is nothing wrong with discreet compromise in situations of swift social change. Islington council would not have been failing in its duty to provide services to the homosexuals of Islington if it had itself been tolerant enough itself to indulge Ladele's unfortunate position. But it's too late for fudge now. The last thing we need is for the idea to take root that ill-considered religious prejudices can trump the law. It is important that the council challenges, and wins, this tribunal's ridiculous ruling at appeal. This, in view of the glaring contradictions in Ladele's own behaviour, should not be a problem.
Sex and the deregulated city
In a heart-warming display of cross-cultural respect, tout le monde has rallied to let Michelle Palmer (especially) and Vince Acors (less forcefully) know that they have no one to blame but themselves. The pair were caught having drunken sex on a Dubai beach by a persistent policeman, and few have any sympathy for their predicament.
Palmer's employer, ITP Publishing, has quickly sacked its 26-year-old employee. I don't have much sympathy for the two Britons' behaviour either. But I do think that their "crime", for which they face up to six years in prison, pales into insignificance in the setting of Dubai, a city that thrives on its status as an international centre for criminal activity of every type imaginable.
Dubai is a mecca for money launderers, who process billions through the city each year. Arms smugglers, drugs smugglers, terrorist groups, people traffickers, the Russian mafia, the Indian mafia – you name it.
The police, who pride themselves on their zero tolerance to petty infringements of the law, admit openly that they do not see the investigation of organised crime as a priority. They concentrate instead on controlling street crime – and beach crime – in order that Dubai remains a risk-free place to do whatever business you might like to, including plenty of prostitution. Acors and Palmer's main crime was to indulge in entertainment that was free.
* Ingrid Betancourt no doubt prefers being trapped in the eye of a media storm to being trapped in the Colombian jungle by Farc guerrillas. Yet if ever a politician needed to spend some more time with her family, then surely it is this one. The poor woman, however, is clearly torn between her urgent and human need to start the daunting task of somehow defining what her new life might be, and her strong and humane desire to harness the attention she is receiving in order to focus attention on the many other people who remain captives in Colombia.
The difficulty can be seen in the "exclusive" interviews in the media. Asked what it is like to be free, Betancourt touchingly attests that there are no words to describe it. Asked what it was like to be captive, she reasonably offers that she is not ready to discuss it. There's "exclusive" and there's "not available at all". Betancourt's experiences, for the time being, should remain in the latter category.
* The nation is no doubt feeling a tingle of excitement at the prospect of John Prescott's forthcoming documentary on class. It's all going to be in there, apparently – the croquet, the Jags, the stalwart, plucky refusal to have any truck with Big Words, the hell of Dorneywood, the overpowering temptation of M&S ready-made trifles after a lifetime of deferred gratification in the form of Bird's mixes. Most insightful of all will be the minutely dissected ruminations on why a decent, normal, working-class guy with decent, normal working-class roots should start behaving just like any Mallen-streaked aristocrat or Southern plantation owner, when it comes to gaining sexual favours from the help.
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Comments
103 Comments
It's pretty much every day that some christians decide not to expend their charity (which they clearly have a monopoly on) to gays: note wanting to let them stay in hotels, not wanting to marry them, not wanting to let them adopt children... I hope the employers sue her for being a petty bigot that she clearly is.
Posted by Chrissy | 15.07.08, 15:10 GMT
The woman is a civil ceremonies registrar, doing state ceremonies. The people who come into a Registry office for civil marriages and the like, are a self selected group who do not want a religious marriage or ceremony. Why should she be allowed to impose her religious criteria on them? If she wishes to marry people according to the dictates of her faith, she can apply to become a priest in whichever religion she has chosen and conduct ceremonies for that self selected group who wish to be married according to her set of religious rules.
She may have some difficulty in achieving priesthood, as many religions are bigoted against women and will not allow them to be priests and marry other people, but that is really her problem. She chooses her religion. In fact, as a complete absurdity she could be seeking to marry people according to the rules of the religion she has chosen, despite the fact that that religion would not allow her to marry people.
Posted by Green | 13.07.08, 12:10 GMT
Amusingly, I can't tell where the 12 year old kids start and the 29 year old religious sicko begins!
I found the stuff about Betancourt more interesting ,personally - but the Jesus-suckers seem to fin sex so toxic yet appealing that they have no option but to froth their pants over the subject.
Adam 'n' Garth: nice work lads! Ivan, go on... try to have the last word... You know you can't resist!
Posted by Cooper | 13.07.08, 10:24 GMT
The comment JUST BELOW is NOT my comment. It is an idle, 13 yr. old yob IMPERSONATING me, because the immature moron has nothing better to do.
Posted by IvanTHEREAL | 13.07.08, 09:12 GMT
"1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. "
I am sure you are familiar with the rest in theory. God bless and keep you. I too believe in Christ and his gospel, righteousness and truth, even if I am just a weak and foolish woman.
Posted by Mimi | 13.07.08, 02:58 GMT
Mimi, perhaps if I valued/favoured YOUR PERSONAL EMOTIONS/FEELINGS over COMMON SENSE, LOGIC and THE TRUTH - then I wouldn't have typed what I've typed.
TRY finding a FAULT, a fallacy, any LIE in my argumentation. Try finding ANYTHING that CLEARLY contradicts COMMON SENSE and the OBSERVABLE FACTS.
"I mean who else would sit for over 12 hours responding to comments like this, in such a hateful tone." - How much time do You grant me?
In YOUR dictionary, is "hate" explained as "anything that contradicts that which a typical woman LIKES TO THINK of herself and her place in society"? If that's how U define "hate"...
Posted by Ivan | 13.07.08, 02:21 GMT
Ivan, please stop. You are not doing yourself, christianity or the bible justice in what you are writing. You are coming across as misogynistic, rude and with nothing better to do with your time. I personally cannot comprehend how you can write such vitriolic words about women and other human beings. Christ's strongest words of condemnation were saved for self-righteous bigots such as the pharisees and sadducees.
These were men who daily condemned sinners, and yet they were so far from the truth of Christ himself, that they killed him. I look at your writing, and I do not see Christ glorified and all I can think of is 'beware of the leaven of the pharisees'. Your comments are so extreme as almost to appear a parody or caricature of the Christian world view. I almost believe you are a 'plant' to present 'Christianity' in an extreme,ludicrous and ridiculous light.
I mean who else would sit for over 12 hours responding to comments like this, in such a hateful tone.
Posted by Mimi | 13.07.08, 02:12 GMT
Regarding "science" - Hitler also used "science" to justify/support his ideology, and no one DARED question the validity of that "science", while the Nazis were in power.
And now we have intrusive leftist tyrants in power... And NO ONE DARES reexamine the "science" that concluded that "homosexuality is not a disorder".
Just as no one dares question the contemporary leftist "science" which EQUATES QUEERS WITH WOMEN - because BASICALLY that's what you're implying, that a queer can substitute a natural mother (woman) - when you defend and believe it is one of gay "rights" to adopt children, and you believe that "the child will not lack anything or suffer in a household of 2 homosexuals".
Are feminists ready to ADMIT that they BELIEVE that a queer is as valuable/capable as a natural mother (woman) - because ANYONE can realize that we inevitably arrive to such a conclusion if we believe that the child will not suffer in any way. or lack anything, in a homosexual "family" ?
Posted by Ivan | 13.07.08, 02:08 GMT
"It is scientifically untrue that men are mentally stronger." - If it's the same "science' that claims homosexuality is "perfectly normal" - then, yes.
Perhaps the average woman could stand not losing her mind in the
blood-soaked, stinking-to-high-heaven fields of Ypres, with dead men and rotting body parts floating in mud everywhere around her ?
Give me a break...Plz.
An infection is also "perfectly normal", "has been happening before", "occurs also in animals" - just as queer activists blabber about their disorder/ANOMALY, but DOES THAT MAKE IT RIGHT?
Should we embrace and "venerate" the infected in the same way that we have embraced the queers?
Posted by Ivan | 13.07.08, 01:47 GMT
'Because some jobs require endurance, immunity/toughness and physical or mental strength - which Your AVERAGE woman does not have as much as the AVERAGE man has.' It is scientifically untrue that men are mentally stronger. So you agree that all men have over women is physical strength - as seen in your quote above. You make a better case for the irrelevance of man than I ever could.
It's like banging your head against a brick wall.
Posted by mishmashmixup | 13.07.08, 01:36 GMT
103 Comments