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Robert Fisk: For the truth, look to Tehran and Damascus – not Tripoli

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Ahmed Jibril, head of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine

REUTERS

Ahmed Jibril, head of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine

Forget all the nonsense spouted by our beloved Foreign Secretary. He's all too happy to express his outrage. The welcome given to Abdelbaset Ali al-Megrahi in Tripoli was a perfect deviation from what the British Government is trying to avoid. It's called the truth, not that Mr Miliband would know much about it.

It was Megrahi's decision – not that of his lawyers – to abandon the appeal that might have told us the truth about Lockerbie. The British would far rather he return to the land of the man who wrote The Green Book on the future of the world (the author, a certain Col Muammar Gaddafi, also wrote Escape to Hell and Other Stories) than withstand the typhoon of information that an appeal would have revealed.

Brown and Gaddafi. Maybe they should set up as a legal company once their time is up. Brown and Gaddafi, Solicitors and Commissioners for Oaths. Not that the oaths would be truthful.

Megrahi's lawyers had delved deeply into his case – which rested on the word of a Maltese tailor who had already seen a picture of Megrahi (unrevealed to us at the time) so he could identify him in court – and uncovered some remarkable evidence from the German police.

Given the viciousness of their Third Reich predecessors, I've never had a lot of time for German cops, but on this occasion they went a long way towards establishing that a Lebanese who had been killed in the Lockerbie bombing was steered to Frankfurt airport by known Lebanese militants and the bag that contained the bomb was actually put on to the baggage carousel for checking in by this passenger's Lebanese handler, who had taken him to the airport, and had looked after him in Germany before the flight.

I have read all the interviews which the German police conducted with their suspects. They are devastating. There clearly was a Lebanese connection. And there probably was a Palestinian connection. How can I forget a press conference in Beirut held by the head of the pro-Syrian "Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine" (they were known, then, as the "Lockerbie boys") in which their leader, Ahmed Jibril, suddenly blurted out: "I'm not responsible for the Lockerbie bombing. They are trying to get me with a kangaroo court."

Yet there was no court at the time. Only journalists – with MI6 and the CIA contacts – had pointed the finger at Jibril's rogues. It was Iran's revenge, they said, for the shooting down of a perfectly innocent Iranian passenger jet by the captain of the American warship Vincennes a few months earlier. I still happen to believe this is close to the truth.

But the moment Syria sent its tanks to defend Saudi Arabia after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait in 1990, all the MI6 truth-telling turned into a claptrap of nonsense about Col Gaddafi. And Gaddafi, let's face it, was in deep trouble. Libya almost certainly was responsible for the earlier bombing of French UTA flight 772 over Chad in 1989. Why not frame him with Lockerbie too?

Of course, we must now forget the repulsive 2004 meeting that Blair arranged with Gaddafi after the latter had supposedly abandoned plans for nuclear weapons (not that his Tripoli engineers could repair a blocked lavatory in the Kebir Hotel), an act which the former foreign secretary Jack Straw called "statesmanlike".

This was the same "statesman" who hosted a group of gunmen that attacked a Greek cruise ship; whose navy had hijacked a yacht called the Silco and held its crew for eight years; and whose secret service kept the Provisional IRA supplied with weapons. Indeed, it was the same "statesman" who murdered the regime's opponents abroad and shot dead a young British policewoman in London.

Thank God for Jack Straw. He cleaned up Gaddafi's face and left it to Miliband to froth on about his outrage at Megrahi's reception back in Tripoli.

Meanwhile the relatives of those who died at Lockerbie – and here I am thinking of a deeply sad but immensely eloquent letter that one of those relatives sent to me – will not know the truth.

I suspect that the truth (speak it not, Mr Miliband, for you do not wish to know) lies in Lebanon, in Damascus and in Tehran. Given your cosy new relationship with the last two cities, of course, there's not a whimper of a chance that you'll want to investigate this, Mr Foreign Secretary. And not much encouragement will "Mad Dog" Gaddafi give to such an undertaking, not after the gifts – oil deals, primarily, but let's not forget the new Marks & Spencer in Tripoli – which he has given us.

Those who complain might be hanged publicly in Benghazi – like the public hanging there of dissident university students in 1979 – or otherwise wiped out, like poor old Mansour al-Kikhiya, who "disappeared" at a Cairo human rights conference in 1993 after complaining about the execution of Gaddafi's political opponents.

Ironically, Megrahi flew home to Tripoli on an Airbus A300 aircraft, exactly the same series as the Iranian plane the Americans shot down in 1988 – and about which Gaddafi never said anything.

It was Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri (once Khomeini's chosen successor but now a recluse under semi-house arrest who stands up for President Ahmadinejad's political opponents) who said in Iran in 1988 that he was "sure that if the Imam [Khomeini] orders, all the revolutionary forces and resistance cells, both inside and outside the country, will unleash their wrath on US financial, economic and military interests".

Remember that, Mr Miliband? No, of course you don't. Not even a whimper of outrage.

More from Robert Fisk

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And what of the American's part in this...?
[info]ancientoneuk wrote:
Friday, 21 August 2009 at 11:27 pm (UTC)
You steer round the subject so adeptly Robert but you forget to mention who planted the "smoking gun", who moved heaven and earth to get that shaky finger pointed at Libya, this is three quarters of the story told and let us have the rest Robert or you too worried the editor will get a D notice on that one eh?

Or more likely a nod and a wink at either the lodge or the Press Club from one of the men who live in the shadows...
[info]grautr wrote:
Friday, 21 August 2009 at 11:42 pm (UTC)
Now the oil companies are in Libya we can blame the Lockerbie bombing on other Arabic countries who are presently black listed. Whats next? If we make up with Syria and get access to Irans oil do we blame Lockerbie on the North Koreans?
A tale of two planes destroyed...
[info]stayahead wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 01:21 am (UTC)


The tale of two planes that were destroyed the same year. One, an Iranian plane, was shot down by the Americans and killed 290. One we do not and may never know who exactly did it but was blamed on Libya anyhow and killed 270.

Finally, the Iranians receives from the US as a compensation $300,000 per wage-earning victim and $150,000 per non-wage-earner. The Americans however got $10,000,0000 per family.

Simply put: In 1988, the life of an Iranian cost either $150,000 or $300,000 depending on whether they were wage earners or not, and that of an American $10,000,0000 regardless of whether they were wage earners or not. Adjust for inflation to get the right figure today.
Re: A tale of two planes destroyed...
[info]uanime5 wrote:
Monday, 24 August 2009 at 11:05 am (UTC)
One was an accident during a war and one was a deliberate terrorist attack suported by a Government. This is why the Americans got more.
Re: A tale of two planes destroyed... - [info]irwin_deutsch - Monday, 24 August 2009 at 06:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: A tale of two planes destroyed... - [info]german_maximus - Tuesday, 25 August 2009 at 07:43 pm (UTC) Expand
When theirs blood on the streets.
[info]dajar wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 01:57 am (UTC)
Let us imagine that Ali al-Megrahi was guilty, a cold blooded mass murderer, perpetrator of a heinous crime an atrocity so great that war might be reasoned by some to have been a justifiable response. Now we are to believe for compassionate reasons we should accept the release of this convicted monster. But let’s consider if Ali al-Megrahi was guilty would we have seen the mild rebuke of an American administration or the limp request of a British Prime Minister seeking celebratory restraint on behalf of the Libyan populous or Ali al-Megrahi release at all? I think not. Judiciaries world wide are not known for compassion, a hawkish American administration (let me be clear the recent change of presidents does not make this a dovish administration) is not known for compassion and in my books the mild admonishment of events is as close to compassion as the world’s sole superpower gets, given their normal response is usually precision guided. As for the Brits the RSPCA takes care of compassion. For the pantomime we have just witnessed it is inconceivable that Ali al-Megrahi is guiltily, not that certain interest groups would mind one way or the other given Libya’s untapped oil reserves but Ali al-Megrahi jailer Kenny MacAskill, an MSP and member of the Scottish National Party would have to believe that the prisoner was innocent as does the American Administration and the British Government, to have authorised or to have meekly accepted Ali al-Megrahi release . From this premise all decisions taken make sense, commercial interests on both sides of the Atlantic are allowed to gorge at a North African table and awkward judicial appeals are avoided. But what of the Scottish National Party what was the sweetener for them, part of the cake certainly but might they have wanted more say like a free run at a referendum. The webs we weave.
Stop blaming Iran
[info]chesscheckers wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 02:55 am (UTC)
Mr. Fisk, how about Libya’s revenge for the US attack killing innocent people including one of Ghaddafi's children?

Now before blaming Iran, have you investigated the shipment of an unaccompanied brown briefcase allegedly containing the explosive shipped from Malta to Frankfurt on board the Maltese Airlines? According to the Frankfurt Airport official, it was put on board Pan Am 103. If that's true, then have you investigated the following?

1. Checked the cargo manifest.
2. Checked the passenger list from Malta to Germany. Did anyone interview them?
3. Checked payment invoice. Someone had to pay for the shipment.
4. Checked to see if an Air waybill was issued for the unaccompanied cargo? If not, why?
5. Checked the name and address of the sender / shipper.
6. Checked the name and address of the receiver.
7.Interviewed the Air Malta staff.
8. Interviewed the cargo handlers in Malta and Frankfurt.
9. Were there surveillance tapes at Malta and Frankfurt? If yes, did anyone check them?
Arogant Politicians
[info]manplant wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 03:55 am (UTC)
By thinking that the majority of the British public will believe their pretence of outrage over the Megrahi release, British politicians must think that over 90% of the population are stupid. Well, they would be correct! Most people in the UK will buy the idea that Megrahi was released on compassionate grounds or are content to bury their head in the sand and fool themselves into believing that the West is a beacon of democracy etc. etc. No lessons will be learnt and the 'same old same old' will continue to occur. Every day will be like a political Groundhog Day.
The true cost of letting Iran and Syria off the hook will soon be apparent and it won't be long before these states go nuclear and we will be dancing to their tune. By buying these states off in order to prevent Saddam obtaining nuclear weapons, we may have allowed potentially worse enemies to achieve that goal. Oh dear!
Re: Arogant Politicians
[info]chesscheckers wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 04:33 am (UTC)
By believing Robert Fisk's allegation against Iran without an iota of proof, you appear to be stupid. By the way, where is the West's outrage at the intentional murder of Iran Air passengers by the US Navy?
Does any sane person in the West think that by paying $150k and $300k to the relatives of the victims that was justice? In comparison, Libya was forced to pay $10 mil for each victim. Incidentally, the US officers and crew members were awarded for the heinous crime. How disgusting and insulting?

Finally, the US and the UK are killing innocent people every day, but there is not a squeak in the West.
Re: Arogant Politicians - [info]manplant - Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 11:56 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Arogant Politicians - [info]chesscheckers - Monday, 24 August 2009 at 02:27 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Arogant Politicians - [info]manplant - Monday, 24 August 2009 at 03:02 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Arogant Politicians - [info]zer0interest - Tuesday, 25 August 2009 at 03:49 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Arogant Politicians - [info]zer0interest - Tuesday, 25 August 2009 at 03:43 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Arogant Politicians - [info]zer0interest - Thursday, 27 August 2009 at 06:47 pm (UTC) Expand
More questions than answers
[info]49niner wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 04:32 am (UTC)
Did this terminally ill Libyan really have anything to do with Lockerbie or was he just a sacrificial lamb? I doubt we'll ever know for certain now. Dead men tell no tales, do they? Was Libya responsible at all, or was it some other Middle East state? Again we don't know for certain, and quite probably will never know.

You reap what you sow, and the constant meddling in Middle East affairs by Western governments, especially the US and its British sidekick, comes at a price. Our citizens become targets of this sort of outrage. And at the heart of a lot of the problems is the running sore of the Palestinian Question.

If we were really serious about reducing Middle East sponsored terrorism, then we would put far more effort in trying to resolve the Palestinian Question. But the US especially, seems wedded to the Israeli line choose what, and won't exert the necessary pressure to bring peace just a little closer.

Someone needs to lock Israeli and Palestinian leaders in a room and not let them come out until they have a deal. By taking sides in what has seemed to be an intractable dispute, the US and Britain just put their citizens at risk for no tangible benefit.

As I have said before, I have no connection with or preference for either side of the Palestinian Question. But I have every interest in peace. Then we may be just a little safer from future Lockerbies, or worse.
Re: More questions than answers
[info]juve_girl wrote:
Monday, 24 August 2009 at 07:58 pm (UTC)
Locking the Israelis and Palestinians up together may produce a deal, but it would come to the same results as all their other deals: Israel will fail to hold it up it's end of the bargain, then, after an intollerably long time, someone on the Palestinian side will snap over the inaction, and Israel will point to them as their "reason" for not having gone ahead in the first place.

As for Lockerbie, between the near-miss appeal and oil contracts, the whole story stinks.
Robert Fisk: For the truth, look to Tehran and Damascus ? not Tripoli
[info]famulla wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 04:38 am (UTC)
Buddy you are my friend so why stop the train by puling the toilet chain? It will pour shit. Chinese are saving on water too.
The way I see law not that, you ask me but I am here to say something.
Please, do not take this personally but let us look at the facts.
Robert Fisk: For the truth, look to Tehran and Damascus ? not Tripoli
Ironically, Megrahi flew home to Tripoli on an Airbus A300 aircraft, exactly the same series as the Iranian plane the Americans shot down in 1988? And about which Gaddafi never said anything.
Na what do you want to say? Gaddafi take the parts of the plane assembles these in Scotland with the Scottish help (expensive as it is) and say ?Right Scots.? I have done the job you would have done in years, but I have oil flowing in. Bob Wake up.
He, Gaddafi does not sell A300 or Airbus Boeings he has the old Concord.
It was Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeriwill unleash their wrath on US financial, economic and military interests".
Here again the same tables but the legs up. How do you do these surprises my son?
You mean Ahmeadijan (I just cannot spell the long name) said I will wipe out the Israel. He said and we saw no Israel? That? Pledges are with the Bush and others too. HOWEVER, Tony took us to Iraq and that is why we in UK I am talking of UK as you are there to see, are in the gutter.
Leave the others and let us talk of us.
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla
What about the truth today
[info]pete_s wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 07:32 am (UTC)

I do not think the truth about Lockerbie 1988, will ever come out, anymore than the truth about Lockerbie prisoner release 2009 will. Bliar set up deals with Libya in 2004 and 2007, would you trust him? Jack Staw been involved, would you trust him? Mandelson meet with Gaddaffi son only weeks ago, would you trust him? Salmond said that no leverage was put on the Scottish justice minister, would you trust him? McSnotty has been totally silent about the whole affair, well I never trust him on anything?

You have more chance of finding fairies at the bottom of your garden, than get the truth with the above 'usual suspects' involved.
Re: What about the truth today
[info]ydef wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 09:15 am (UTC)
FWIW, Megrahi has stated in press releases that he will present evidence that will completely exonerate him and Libya's role in the Lockerbie bombing. He would give no further details at this time.
Lockerbie
[info]marchmont wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 08:56 am (UTC)
In the furore over the release of al Megrahi, the event most likely to have been original cause of the Pan Am bombing is quite forgotten. The shooting down of the Iran civilian airliner by the US Navy five months before Lockerbie cost 290 lives. To say the Americans were off hand about this outrageous act would be an understatement of truly sublime dimensions. The US is also a country which still executes many of its own citizens for crimes for which some of them are manifestly innocent. It also appears to hold to the principle that revenge equates to justice, an attitude that is clearly shown in the widely different attitudes of the US and UK relatives. That such a country would criticise the Scottish legal system for showing mercy is only to be expected.
Libya
[info]rationalist99 wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 09:13 am (UTC)
On the same day the man convicted of the Lockerbie bombing was due to be released, I read the following news item.

Libya deals with illegal immigration by executing the illegal immigrants, 200 Nigerians to be executed in cold blood.

http://odili.net/news/source/2009/aug/8/303.html



Tells you something about what kind of country Libya is doesn’t it?
And it tells you something about the cowardice and incompetence of the media who fail to report such things.
Re: the bana republic of Britain
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 09:45 am (UTC)
where government allows racketeers to sell your liviing space and welcomes their customers as cheap fodder for a black economy.
"Tells you something about what kind of country" the wilfully de-skilled , de-educated, de-industrialised, banana republic of Britain "is doesn’t it?"
what is this about?
[info]mind_ful wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 09:17 am (UTC)
this article is so full of personal diatribe that I couldn't understand what the writere was saying he thought had actually happened. Could the inde have a bit more editorial control please?
'for the truth'
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 09:37 am (UTC)
'for the truth' - society may not expect self-remediation among cerebral prostitutes
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 10:44 am (UTC)
Human Life As Bargaining Chips
[info]littleglimmer wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 09:55 am (UTC)
So this is the latest in a sorry tale of human lives (and their families) being used in a global poker game, and paradoxically, after the wholesale slaughter of planeloads of people, the headlines are all about one old dying man. How perverse! The battleground is all about moral integrity and justice, yet these are the first to be sacrificed in this shameful 'reality show'.
Of course, no sane person would doubt that the case against al-Megrahi is extremely unsound, but I do wonder what the scenario would have been if an Iranian warship had shot down a US airliner in US airspace. Would the US have settled for a few paltry dollars? No, the destructive fallout would have resulted in a global destabilising war in which possibly Israel would have unholstered their nuclear arsenal.
The end of al-Megrahi's appeal was the best result the US and UK could have wished for.
I hope that decent people will not let these bullies win and investigative journalism perseveres.
Third Reich ?
[info]prgibbons wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 10:59 am (UTC)
Your article leaves a nasty taste, the reference to the Third Reich and the honesty or not of the German Police says it all, you are Sir as bigoted and dishonest as those you condemn.
Re: Third Reich ?
[info]ecotree53 wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 08:27 pm (UTC)
I agree with you entirely. Mr Fisk might be well informed but his retoric and cynical journalistic style undermines his arguments. A pity.
[info]qunfuz wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 11:40 am (UTC)
general thrust of the article is good and logical, but what on earth is Fisk on about with Milliband's "cosy new relationship" with Damascus and Tehran? Ever since he got in bed with the pro-Saudi sectarian crooks of March 14, people like Junblat (don't forget his "glorious" wife) and Saad Hariri, Fisk's reporting on Syria and Iran has been biased, partial and ill-informed.
The rules of foreign engagement...
[info]rhysjaggar wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 11:56 am (UTC)
1. If we kill people for money, we are heroes.
2. If others kill us for money or for revenge, they are terrorists.
3. If our enemies are dictators they are evil psychopaths.
4. If we would like to befriend a dictator, we focus on his need for arms.
5. 100,000 dead Arab darkies is acceptable collateral damage. But 270 dead Yanks is cause for a global fatwa.
6. Oil is evil unless we get it cheap. Then it's precious.
7. Greens are communists until we can control green energy markets. Then they are visionaries.
8. Bribes by the French show how much they distort international trade. Bribes by the UK or the US are good business.
9. Telling the truth too soon or too late is a house-arresting offence. For it shows independence of thought.
10. A black President must show his murdering credentials by killing black people. Because if he killed white people he would be branded racist.
11. Foreign service is the last sanctuary for semi-refined racists. Because defending the indefensible is core competence number one.
Re: The rules of foreign engagement...
[info]ancientoneuk wrote:
Sunday, 23 August 2009 at 01:21 am (UTC)
Well said and in my opinion... sadly and utterly true.
Re: The rules of foreign engagement... - [info]past123 - Monday, 24 August 2009 at 08:28 pm (UTC) Expand
How Much the West has Won
[info]fredscribe1 wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 12:58 pm (UTC)
Lockerbie was, of course, a terrible tragedy and one sympathises with relatives of those killed for whom recent days will doubtless have stirred up painful memories. And indeed it is possible that the truth of what happened, engineered by whom, will never now come out. Yet one cannot help but be cynical to hear US rhetoric about how disgusted is the US administration at Megrahi's release, while Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and Henry Kissinger, men who engineered slaughter and illegal invasion in Iraq and and Cambodia respectively, walk the streets unhindered by even a hint of legal process for war crimes. One doesn't even need to bother to mention the Israeli commanders who thought that dropping phosphorus on Gaza civilians was a neat idea: they knew they'd get away with it, it's what the West does. So let us not be surprised at all if a dark deal lies behind the recent release of the man (the only man) convicted in connection with Lockerbie - indeed, if a dark deal lies behind his conviction in the first place. We never know the names of the Afghani villagers killed by our bombs and rockets and neither do we mourn for them. How many of us can say without thinking the number of Iraqi civilians killed since the Cheney illegal invasion? None of this is to take away, of course, from the grief felt by relatives of those who died at Lockerbie. It is sobering, however, to realise how the West thinks and what makes the West angry; the deaths of Arabs or Afghanis appears to exercise Western righteousness very little indeed. And in this we remain stubbornly Victorian and perhaps, somewhere beneath all of it, believers in a 21st century version of Manifest Destiny.
Re: How Much the West has Won
[info]stevieb77 wrote:
Sunday, 23 August 2009 at 10:01 pm (UTC)
Great points and tone - good job.

It's hard to believe Obama could be that short-sighted - but that's America, isn't it?
Re: How Much the West has Won - [info]uanime5 - Monday, 24 August 2009 at 11:18 am (UTC) Expand
Lockerbie rationale
[info]cbnorrie wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 01:40 pm (UTC)
I'm sure Mr Fisk remembers Dr Velayati's comment on 17 and 20 December 1988 on the 'pre-ordained revenge' for the Iranian Airbus.

What did he mean by that.

Simply that the Iranian Government had the US one had cooked up a deal to allow the Iranians their one and one only revenge.

A day later, following two explosions of the Maid, (two? -read the AAIB report critically), the deed was done.

The CIA were, of course, involved.

If I a simple relative of another terrorist bombing (genuinely Libyan) can work out the name of one of the CIA men, it won't be a long tine coming out, will it?



You have and don't have a point Fisk
[info]mhbs1 wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 01:42 pm (UTC)
It is indeed sad for all of us to see crimes committed against civilians. If the Iranian airplane with its passengers got the same media coverage to date in the western media after that the American warship with its “brave” captain in command that was handed a medal for excellent achievements in service and who decided to send a missile to blow it up in pieces, then how would the Muslim world reacted to that justice?

Since the day of the explosion on Pan Am flight that killed civilians, we have been feed with news, court hearings of the case, with all right. At the same time I have not seen any articles, court hearing covering the Iranian flight that was intentionally shot down and no one has been to blame for that crime or sentenced to jail. The world should not think that Muslim countries will stand by and just watch their beloved ones get murdered without any retaliation under the same principles used by the west. What message does this give to the already boiling Middle East?

Mr. Fisk, by pointing a finger of accusation will not give any justice to relatives of the victims of the Iranian or Pan Am flights that where murdered in cold blood! Why not directly show on the most probably cause that started that evil circle of murder of civilians? Why not directly point out what happened that day in the Persian Gulf when the “brave” US commander gave the order that pulverized almost 300 civilians? Pointing finger at Syrian, Iran or any other country will not help? The explosion on Pan Am was for sure related to the American downing of the Iranian plane. If you and the relatives of the Iranian and Pan Am victims wish to seek the true and to know by person whom to blame, you should start pointing finger of accusation on that times sitting American president and military commanders and not at the Middle East! Pointing finger at Syria and Iran is irrelevant at a beginning! Reconciliation between the Middle East and the West is not what you are paving the road for Mr. Fisk!

And by calling Gaddafi "Mad Dog Gaddafi"? Have you lost all your sanity Mr. Fisk?

Happy Ramadan
Re: You have and don't have a point Fisk
[info]walterwall wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 06:16 pm (UTC)
Spot on. I wonder what has become of Robert Fisk. I used to respect him even when his views were not in line with mine. He just seems to have lost it in the past few months.
Re: You have and don't have a point Fisk - [info]uanime5 - Monday, 24 August 2009 at 11:32 am (UTC) Expand
Re: You have and don't have a point Fisk - [info]juve_girl - Monday, 24 August 2009 at 08:16 pm (UTC) Expand
Robert the reactionary?
[info]walterwall wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 06:13 pm (UTC)
Lining up the ducks for an attack on Iran while appearing to be questioning the British government.
You "suspect", but do not feel inclined to share the grounds for your suspicion with your readers, that Iran was involved.
Mr Fisk, what has become of you? You are a very sad case.
Sickening
[info]mrbile wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 09:19 pm (UTC)
It is sickening almost beyond belief that a couple of decades is enough to reduce the slaughter of innocents to a economic bargaining chip. Read more: www.rhubarbgrumble.blogspot.com/
Re: Sickening
[info]zer0interest wrote:
Friday, 28 August 2009 at 07:40 am (UTC)
"Also Mr Netanyahu has urged Britain to stop supporting the Israeli Army veterans' group Breaking the Silence, which is strongly critical of the military assault on Gaza in January."
What is the deal between Israel and Britain ?
Zionist use money at this time to put pressure on Britain.
Sickening
[info]mrbile wrote:
Saturday, 22 August 2009 at 09:21 pm (UTC)
It is sickening almost beyond belief that a couple of decades is enough to reduce the slaughter of innocents to a economic bargaining chip. More at: www.rhubarbgrumble.blogspot.com
Re: Sickening
[info]zer0interest wrote:
Thursday, 27 August 2009 at 07:52 pm (UTC)
as with Israel,promising to make deal with money to Palestinian land occupied 1948 and 1967.
ethnic cleansing of Palestinians ,over 700,000 olives and orange trees have been destroyed by israels over 60 years....
no one move a finger...
Moral integrity and Justice...
[info]mumbogumbo wrote:
Sunday, 23 August 2009 at 07:46 am (UTC)
Quote; "The battleground is all about moral integrity and justice, yet these are the first to be sacrificed in this shameful 'reality show'"

I don't believe that moral integrity and justice have been sacrificed; it isn't easy to sacrifice a principle that exists on different levels and with multiple interpretations dependent on where an individual fits in the equation. The moral high-ground is invariably siezed by the powerful and used as justification for their actions (aka. Bush, Blair and Iraq) whilst 'justice' is invariably served on anyone who opposes them. (aka The US intent to destroy Gary Mackinnon for the crime of hunting for the truth about Aliens).

There is no longer any morality in politics and there is no justice under the law. Once one subscribes to the view that politics and the law in western society are arranged to facilitate the accumulation of wealth then so much becomes clear. Despite assertions to the contrary by the repugnant Mandelson, the principle holds good in the case of al Magrahi. American opinion is outraged because 'justice' was served on Magrahi and has now been overturned; the moral high ground (leading to the opportunity to accumulate significant wealth) has been siezed on behalf of BP, Shell and others by the establisment in the UK by showing compassion to a dying man.

I give credence to Mr Fisk's argument of Lebanese, Syrian and Iranian involvement in the Lockerbie bombing. It is plausable and occured at a time when the Islamic backlash against American involvement in the middle-east was in it's genesis; in the light of subsequent events his argument is compelling.

American Hubris in 1988 did not allow for the fact that some people actually might object to them doing what they liked, wherever they wanted to do it - the shooting down of the Iranian airliner and the subsequent American reaction was offensive at the time to many in the west, despite the 'glossing over' the event got from a subservient western press- well managed outrage coupled to copious justification. How much more offensive must it have been to the Iranians when the tragedy was compounded by the spin and inference prompted by American arrogance and moral infallability?

Irrespective of which Administration is in power there is a common theme to American foriegn policy - ruthless arrogance, agression and bloated self interest, driven by the insatiable demand of US corporations to make money and the immensly powerful Israeli lobby. Backed by the world's largest and most sophisticated military it is little wonder that successive administrations can impose their own brand of morality and justice on an increasingly unwilling world. In this context we in the UK have become complicit in the evils of grand corporatism, the original drivers of British imperialism, exported to and ultimately eclipsed by the Americans.

The Lockerbie bomber may or may not be innocent, the truth is well concealed and will never be known lest it should disturb the the particular brand of morality and justice preached by westen governments, which is so fundamentally abhorent to those subject to it's practice,
I am, as everm curious about our double standards
[info]larkspur_14 wrote:
Sunday, 23 August 2009 at 09:24 am (UTC)
(from which Fisk is not free, since he too froths on with barely concealed contempt and hatred for his own chosen monsters). The principles in this case are clear: a condemned man facing imminent death asks for compassionate leave to die surrounded by his family. He is frail, weak, completely subject to our will. Question: do we act with kindness and cruelty. He is stretched out before us - do we spit on him or practise the forgiveness which our religion - the religion we claim makes us so superior to all others - demands of us. Answer. We try to have it both ways - yes, a beleaguered but honorable Scottish minister does as his justice system recommends and sends him home. No, our political bovver boys and their swaggering media spit at every target in sight. Lesson for those witnessing this despicable orgy of hatred? We are hypocrites. Lesson for our children? Compassion is weak and devious and they should hate and kill. Instaed of a celebration of a great principle nobly upheld, we get this revolting parade of hissing haters, and in my view it shames us totally. And on the question of those who kill hundreds in the service of their government - how come only the muslim is the "monster". Why not the (presumably Christian) American who shot down that airbus? (We need not mention the avowedly christian monster who killed tens of thousands in Hiroshima.) If we are handing out monster labels, I have a host of white christians who have done more than enough to earn them.

Re: I am, as everm curious about our double standards
[info]juve_girl wrote:
Monday, 24 August 2009 at 08:23 pm (UTC)
Certainly. No arguments about double standards. But just a brief comment on "compassion".

Were I to believe that this man was really to blame, I might be upset at his release. Not because I don't believe we should show compassion to the weak and suffering, but because we don't show that to our own citizens who have committed far lesser crimes than the (purported) murder of nearly 290 people.
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