Commentators

3° London Hi 9°C / Lo 3°C

Robert Fisk: I saw a mesmeric Islamic uprising turn to savagery

The fall of the Shah was an epic, a morality play or a Greek tragedy if he had been a truly great man rather than just another American satrap, complete with US fighter aircraft, a swamp of corrupt officials and a sadistic intelligence service. When one of my colleagues suggested that the Iranian revolution could be compared to the fall of the Bastille and of the Tsar – he quoted Charles Fox’s line about “how much the greatest event it is that ever happened in the world” – I thought his trust in Ayatollah Khomeini’s liberal intentions was born of wishful thinking.

When Khomeini’s prime minister, Mehdi Bazargan, appeared on television to condemn the revolution’s bloody kangaroo courts as a disgrace to “a wonderful revolution of religious and human values” and appealed to the Ayatollah to set new rules for the trials, Khomeini agreed, then forgot his promise. The size of the street demonstrations in Tehran – a million one day, one and a half million the next – gave the Iranian revolution a mesmeric quality. It was anarchic, animalistic, ritualistic, very definitely Shia, but, in its earliest days, strangely moving.

I was then working for the pre-Murdoch Times, which was temporarily closed by a printing dispute, and made my way to Iran to report for the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. But I still have the notes I sent back to my then news editor, Ivan Barnes. The Shah’s acolytes, I said, had been insufferably arrogant, but “I found that this arrogance had disappeared with the revolution. I was treated with courtesy and kindness almost everywhere I went and found Iranians much more aware of the implications of world events than ... the inhabitants of Arab countries. There was a straightforward quality about Iranians in the country as well as the towns that I couldn’t help admiring. They were thirsting to talk about anything.

“The only trouble I had was on the train to Qum [sic] when a gang of Islamic Guards (green armbands and M16 rifles) opened the compartment door and saw me recording a cassette with train sounds. I was accused of being a CIA spy (what else?) but explained that I was a journalist working for Canadian radio. The interpreter, a leftist student who travelled with me everywhere ... repeated the same thing and they relaxed. I had been told in Tehran to always say ‘Long live Khomeini, death to the Shah!’ to anyone nasty. I said my piece, at which the Guards raised their right fists in the air and shouted their approval. Then they all shook hands with me with giant smiles and tramped off down the train to torment someone in another compartment.”

The Shah’s gruesome medical odyssey through the hospitals of central America, New York City and, eventually, Cairo gave grim satisfaction to the mullahs who had already ordered his assassination. Not long after his departure I had sat at the feet of Hojatolislam Sadeq Khalkhali, the “hanging judge”, as he listed those of the Shah’s family sentenced to death in absentia. Khalkhali it was who had sentenced a14-year-old boy to death, who had approved of the stoning to death of women in Kermanshah, who earlier, in a mental hospital, would strangle cats in his prison cell. “The Shah will be strung up; he will be cut down and smashed,” he told me. “He is an instrument of Satan.”

Weeks later, in Evin prison, he discoursed again on the finer details of stoning to death. I still have the cassette of our conversation, his lips smacking audibly on a tub of vanilla ice cream as he spoke. From where did this brutality come? One of the regime’s new officials said the Shah’s Savak intelligence men were Nazi-type criminals. And how could I argue with this when reporters such as Derek Ive of the AP had managed to look inside a Savak agent’s house just before the revolution was successful? “There was a fishpond outside,” he told me. “There were vases of flowers in the front hall. But downstairs there were cells. In each of them was a steel bed with straps and beneath it two domestic cookers. There were lowering devices on the bedframes so the people strapped to them could be brought down on the flames. In another cell, I found a machine with a contraption which held a human arm beneath a knife and next to it was a metal sheath into which a human hand could be fitted. At one end was a bacon slicer. They had been shaving off hands.”

Derek Ive found a pile of human arms in a corner and, in a further cell, he discovered pieces of a corpse floating in inches of what appeared to be acid. Amid such savagery was the Iranian revolution born.

Robert Fisk’s full account of the 1979 Iranian revolution appears in his book, The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East

More from Robert Fisk

Post a Comment

View all comments that have been posted about this article.

Offensive or abusive comments will be removed and your IP logged and may be used to prevent further submission. In submitting a comment to the site, you agree to be bound by the Independent Minds Terms of Service.

Comments

It started on a promising note, but ....
[info]chesscheckers wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 12:02 am (UTC)
It started on a promising note, but it has turned out to be worst than the Shah's rule. In the initial days, the supporters of the Islamic rule including MKO thugs went on rampage. They arrested many innocent people and put them to death without trial.

After 30 years of harsh religious rule, the Iranians are sick and tired of the Islamic regime. Unfortunately, the West and Israel are helping it stay in power by their constant threats and sanctions. If the West and Israel stop their threats, the regime will implode because they cannot help improve Iran's miserable economy and will have no scapegoats to rally the crowd.
Why?
[info]dumb_marcian wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 04:17 am (UTC)
This looks very weird. Why should some people be savage in this way? I understand that the Shah regime was corrupt, but the reaction to it was more radical and extreme.

I should mention that the Israeli savagery is far beyond this type of savagery. No wonder why both Iran & Israel are making the middle east a hell on earth.
Re: Why?
[info]saraal65 wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 06:42 am (UTC)
Iran is the only country in the Middle East that will save that region from complete US domination and disaster. Just watch it go from strength to strength, despite every obstacle put in its way by successive US administrations, and other Western countries. It is precisely because of this formidable strength, tenacity, scientific progress and opposition to Israeli expansionism and savagery that it is so hated and demonised by that rogue state and its servants in the US.
Re: Why? - [info]victormc - Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 09:18 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Why? - [info]lkdamo - Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 03:37 pm (UTC) Expand
Iran: Our only hope?
[info]giuseppesapone wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 07:26 am (UTC)
As the US administration is in the pocket the Zionists and most of the Arab states are US clients, only Iran can stand up to the 'entity occupying Al Quds'. Although there is not a shred of evidence that Iran has a nuclear weapons program, I for one would be very happy if they do aquire them; then, God willing, we can wave bye bye to the appalling Nazi like regime of Israel
Re: Iran: Our only hope?
[info]tzreil wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 03:10 pm (UTC)
I wonder how much thought Guiseppesapone has put into the fact he wants Iran to have nuclear weapons to get rid of the only democratic country in the region, Israel. A nuclear weapon would wipe
out most of the middle east if not all.
Re: Iran: Our only hope? - [info]irwin_deutsch - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 07:59 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Iran: Our only hope? - [info]drtre - Sunday, 1 March 2009 at 07:20 pm (UTC) Expand
Mesmerized?
[info]gollymolly44 wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 08:16 am (UTC)
Robert. Some of us were not mesmerized by the spectre of mob-rule followed by a thuggish theocracy. But then some of us are more realistic about Islam and its followers. Perhaps it's true that people get the governments they deserve.
Re: Mesmerized?
[info]bobav wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 01:04 pm (UTC)
... or the economic collapse
Re: Mesmerized? - [info]freefaith - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:05 pm (UTC) Expand
Iranian revolution
[info]pavlt wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 08:19 am (UTC)
I agree with R. Fisk that Iranian revolution liberated the nation from the influence of the US (and Israel) domination. Iranian revolution is another nice example what might happen if the democratic world exports dictators and human rights violations instead of democracy and tolerance. I am not happy about the post-revolution development in Iran but I would not expect much different trajectory in the country where any sign of democracy was suppressed and which we pushed towards the exhausting and costly war. See what happened in Cuba after arrival of Castro or in Russia after the Bolshevik revolution.
Fisk on Iran
[info]hagaon wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 08:37 am (UTC)
Typical of the faeces that Fisk attracts, we already have some of them actually justifying the existence of the Islamic revolutionaries. Those twisted minds would feel at home in Tehran and suggest relocating before they contaminate Western society any further. They may find difficulty getting their instruments of torture through airport security, but no doubt find more upon arrival. Good riddance. Furthermore, my Arab heritage is offended by those who claim to speak for me in anti-Semitic terms.
Re: Fisk on Iran
[info]saraal65 wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 02:10 pm (UTC)
Your obscene language would suggest that you have no sense of decent heritage, Arab or otherwise. Speaking out against Israeli aggression and expansionism is not anti- semitic and only a zionist would claim it is. Iran is a great country with a bright future--and no one can stop its progress to better economic and technological future. It is not perfect as many other countries, but it is not the demon state it is painted out to be people such as yourself. If you are racist against the Iranians, that is entirely your problem.
Re: Fisk on Iran - [info]brugnac - Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 02:40 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk on Iran - [info]saraal65 - Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 04:38 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk on Iran (saraal65) - [info]brugnac - Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 10:08 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk on Iran (saraal65) - [info]saraal65 - Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 11:32 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk on Iran (saraal65) - [info]brugnac - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:30 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk on Iran - [info]ajay55_fighter - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:28 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk on Iran - [info]saraal65 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 12:59 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk on Iran - [info]saraal65 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 01:02 pm (UTC) Expand
Horror images - Gee. Thanks, I think
[info]psmith42 wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 08:54 am (UTC)
Mr. Fisk,

The imagery of torture - the cookers beneath steel bed frames, a human arm beneath a knife, and a hand in a bacon slicer. These are right up there with the pictures of the Gaza genocide - http://portail.islamboutique.fr/gaza2008/

I'm sure it is valuable that we know these things. Because the Shah's, secret service, Savak, learned their trade from the US. And the US have been torturing - in Asia, in South and Central America - for a very long time. More recently in Iraq and Afghanistan, of course.

So we should know what they get up to. But I don't think that all your readers will thank you for those images that will stay with them for a very long time.

I was truly amazed by British attituides...
[info]ancientoneuk wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 09:25 am (UTC)
.. before Blair knelt to the twisted American altar, for unreported by many, Britain was helping Iran reform many parts of its society, from introducing PAYE (The Inland Revenue had its own office in Tehran) to more widespread socio-economic advice that was welcomed by the current Iranian President's predecessor and it was making an impact on Iran, it was slowly coming in from the cold and making noises that satisfied all.

Iran continued to co-operate with the west even though they failed to recognise the rabid change in British attituides, they saw Britain as a means to begin facilitating dialogue with America, many Iranians helped indirectly the US in their operations in Iran but got little reward and plenty of vitriol from Bush and Blair.

And so the Iranians turned their back on the west, a golden opportunity lost possibly for good as Russia capitalised on the west's failure regarding Iran.

But let us also going back, remember it was the Americans that sparked the Iranian revolution, by forcing Saddam Hussein to eject Khomenei, they forced the Ayatollah into the media limelight in France and the rest is as they say, is history, if the Americans had left things alone, let Khomenei stay in Baghdad with all the other failed dictators of that time, it is very very likely that Khomenei would have attained more than a modest following and nothing like the millions of dollars of financial support that he got from the exposure in France, in short, the Americans interference once again blew up in their faces.

Pre-Murdoch Times, ah the halcyon days when the "Thunderer" was the paper to be reckoned with, lunching with my late mother at Grays Inn Road, sitting in the super modern foyer of the Times, then off to the el grotty canteen in the less than inspiring Sunday Times building next door or if we were lucky like after her work was completed on the royal wedding supplement, off to the exclusive Roberto's... I have very fond memories of the Times.
I saw a mesmeric Islamic uprising turn to savagery
[info]barneyson wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 09:49 am (UTC)
Is there incredulity here? I hope not. An Islamic uprising will necessarily turn to savagery. Get a bunch of holier-than-thou types running the show and the corpses will start piling up.
Re:Warped Minds
[info]hagaon wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 12:07 pm (UTC)
Ganef, you stole the words right out of my mouth, you thief you !!
Re: I saw a mesmeric Islamic uprising turn to savagery - [info]lkdamo - Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 04:10 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I saw a mesmeric Islamic uprising turn to savagery - [info]freefaith - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:23 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I saw a mesmeric Islamic uprising turn to savagery - [info]barneyson - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 11:24 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I saw a mesmeric Islamic uprising turn to savagery - [info]freefaith - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 05:31 am (UTC) Expand
Re: I saw a mesmeric Islamic uprising turn to savagery - [info]hagaon - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 07:58 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I saw a mesmeric Islamic uprising turn to savagery - [info]freefaith - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 08:14 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I saw a mesmeric Islamic uprising turn to savagery - [info]hagaon - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 10:36 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I saw a mesmeric Islamic uprising turn to savagery - [info]freefaith - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 10:57 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I saw a mesmeric Islamic uprising turn to savagery - [info]hagaon - Friday, 13 February 2009 at 07:23 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I saw a mesmeric Islamic uprising turn to savagery - [info]freefaith - Friday, 13 February 2009 at 08:23 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I saw a mesmeric Islamic uprising turn to savagery - [info]barneyson - Saturday, 14 February 2009 at 11:50 am (UTC) Expand
Re: I saw a mesmeric Islamic uprising turn to savagery - [info]freefaith - Saturday, 14 February 2009 at 07:41 pm (UTC) Expand
Warped minds
[info]ganef wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 10:00 am (UTC)
Contributors to these blogs of Fisk have totally warped minds. Here, Fisk writes a perfectly good article on Iran and you may choose to agree or disagree on his views. But his article is about Iran and the Shah. So what do wew get in the first ten comments. Five bring in Israel, one Zionism and one Gaza.

If the rest of the world has the same warped, closed minds, little wonder there is no peace in the middle east. Just watch these posts move away from Fisk's subject into the same old rhetoric.
Re: Warped minds
[info]fakhry wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 10:23 am (UTC)
any one does not suit you ,is close mind or warped mind ? the best mind are the children killers.!
Re: Warped minds - [info]ganef - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 11:50 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Warped minds - [info]hagaon - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 01:23 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Warped minds - [info]fakhry - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 04:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Warped minds - [info]freefaith - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:58 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Warped minds - [info]fakhry - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 10:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Warped minds - [info]freefaith - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 05:02 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Warped minds - [info]fakhry - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 01:39 pm (UTC) Expand
The Shah
[info]phyllisstein wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 11:39 am (UTC)
America got it wrong again and let in megalomaniac Khomeini. We are now left with a very volatile and anti West country.Now the Americans and the rest of the world are hoping (not in public) that Israel will do their dirty work and bomb Iran off the planet. Scary
Re: The Shah
[info]gollymolly44 wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 01:34 pm (UTC)
So once again America is responsible - amazing. Perhaps you would have preferred the Americans to kidnep the sainted Khomeini and chuck him in the equivalent of Gitmo?That would have been OK with me and would definitely have been for the greater good and for the good of Iran - but can you imagine the wailing from the sort of people who write similar anti-American comments as yours? And no mention from you of the millions of Iranians who welcomed this twisted monster to their country........
Savagery for no reason
[info]peersrogue wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 12:08 pm (UTC)
A very dear, kind, honourable, hardworking friend was executed when the mad mullahs took over. His crime? to have been a member of the Bahai faith. For me that is the sum total of what the rulers of Iran are like. Mindless ignorant and savage without and beyond reason.
Iran - Iraq war
[info]colincarr99 wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 12:19 pm (UTC)
Victormc wrote,
"Not too long ago they fought the pathetic Sadaam's Iraq for 8 years over...er nothing."

No, not "er nothing". Iraq started the war by invading southwest Iran with a view to conquering its oilfields and plundering their production.

With that level of ignorance victormc I can only assume that,
"You are obviously either living in a parallel universe or dream world or know nothing of this subject."
Iranian regime: foul violator of human rights
[info]samb_uk wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 12:41 pm (UTC)
Gay people, ethnic minorities, religious minorities, women, political dissidents and etc, face outrageous oppression and human rights violations in Iran. This is why I find it particularly hilarious that such a regime thinks it has the moral right to criticise the human rights record of countries such as Israel. As my father always told me, people who live in glass houses should not throw stones at others. The theocratic Iranian regime resides in a wafer thin, single-glaze glass house.

I suggest that politicians across the world - both in the West and else where - reduce their anti-Iranian rhetoric. This is the best way to undermine the current delusional regime in Tehran. After all, the Iranian economy is in a terrible state and the majority are unsatisfied. The only tool this regime has in its hands is anti-Iranian rhetoric.
The Shah
[info]sfbker wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 01:06 pm (UTC)
I was in Iran just before the Shah left and it was the best Muslim country in the mid east. The Shah's government was trying to bring the people of Iran into the 20th century and the old fools were resisting as they would lose power and would have to wake up to the new world. The Savak was no worst than the current security forces and you can say that about the rest of the region. Go to Israel and see the only decent country in the region. If the region did not have oil they would have to eat their camels and would not be a problem or danger to the rest of the world. wwrutland.wordpress.com
Re: The Shah
[info]philipshahak wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 01:20 pm (UTC)
Another Zionist loon!
Re: The Shah - [info]brugnac - Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 02:02 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Shah - [info]sfbker - Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 07:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Shah - [info]saraal65 - Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 02:02 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Shah - [info]ganef - Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 02:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Shah - [info]saraal65 - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:05 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The Shah - [info]ganef - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 08:30 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The Shah - [info]samb_uk - Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 03:30 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Shah - [info]saraal65 - Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 11:36 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Shah - [info]sfbker - Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 07:17 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Shah - [info]saraal65 - Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 07:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Shah - [info]ganef - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 09:00 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The Shah - [info]fakhry - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 10:08 am (UTC) Expand
BUT ALL TRUE REVOLUTIONS ARE LIKE THIS AND ANY OF US WOULD BE FURIOUS OVER AMERICA'S PAST ACTIVITIES
[info]chuckman_john wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 02:11 pm (UTC)
But this is the story of every genuine revolution.

By genuine I'm excluding events such as the American Revolution or Britain's Glorious Revolution, important and rather violent events but only rather loosely called revolutions.

True revolutions are always explosive, violent, life-changing events. That's why we can use the word for events like the Industrial Revolution, a world-changing set of events that hurt numberless people.

Indeed, when you are familiar with the history of such events, the word revolution takes on the kind of connotations of earthquake or natural disaster.

But most political revolutions are completely avoidable. They always come out of an environment of abuse and excessive privilege and trampling on others. The signs are always there to read too, requiring only changes in policy or reforms. This was absolutely true in such revolutions as the French and the Russian.

The policies of the United States, it should be remembered, bear a great responsibility for the extremes of Iran's Revolution. It overthrew the first democratic government in the Middle East to install the bloody Shah, and they supported that vampire for years in every way they could.

He was sold what then was an amazing pile of armaments, being equipped to serve as an American surrogate in the region.

Meanwhile Savak, his secret police, pulled out the finger nails of victims and murdered thousands.

The U.S. has never stopped playing such dirty games.

It supported Hussein in his horrible war against Iran, an 8-year long horror that in terms of the proportion of population killed or hurt compares to the Great War for major European countries.

Today it supports Israel's endless threats against Iran for the sin of entering the modern age with satellites and nuclear power stations. And it says nothing of Israel's horrible abuses and of its nuclear arsenal threatening everyone in the Middle East.
Re: BUT ALL TRUE REVOLUTIONS ARE LIKE THIS AND ANY OF US WOULD BE FURIOUS OVER AMERICA'S PAST ACTIVI
[info]brugnac wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 02:58 pm (UTC)
Israel`s problem with Iran, is not that Iran has entered the modern age with satellites and nuclear power stations, as chuckman_john naively put it, rather it is the public threats by Iran to destroy Israel and all it`s citizens. I think any country would have a problem with that threat, especially as Iran is seeking to produce nuclear weapons.
hey, lighten up
[info]freedommonger wrote:
Tuesday, 10 February 2009 at 05:17 pm (UTC)
Interesting stuff. It seems it is thought better to be worse off so log as it aint the awful USA doing it. Its quite clear that the shah was bad but the theocracy was, and is, worse. And what about old Mossy. As I understand it, a nutter as well. Iranians have been very unlucky with their leaders it seems, whether chosen by the UK/USA or themselves!

Still, these Iranian people werent "tourtured" by Americans so who gives a f? No one will censure if its not the USA getting it and theres nothing mindlessly bigotted abouyt that at all is there

Iraqis got the better deal maybe? It looks like they have a true plural democracy, although I see Sarkozy is sniffing for odious oil contracts in Baghdad today so lets not count our Poussin. You know its safe when the French turn up. Isnt Iraq free despite and in spite of France? I wonder what they gave him for lunch?
The Issue of Iran
[info]freefaith wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 03:44 am (UTC)
This is an interesting article by Fisk. And many of the comments that have been posted are also interesting. Iran's problems are deep and widespread. They are like weeds; with roots engrained, that make a quick reappearance and spread throughout the people and the country like wildfire. I do not know when there will be a "better Iran" because of these constant and consistent problems. Time will tell. There is always room for improvement. It does not help when the West interferes in negative and selfish (or corrupt) ways. It does not help when there are leaders that are tyrannical, corrupt, hypocritical, and incompetent. But again, there is always room for improvement and change.
Re: The Issue of Iran
[info]fakhry wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 09:47 am (UTC)
there will be always room for improvement,west and Israeli did not gave them the time ,i agree about corruption?
I am having medical problem in writing more to you ?
remember that Hamas and resistant group are under microscope ?
bless you now and later?
Re: The Issue of Iran - [info]fakhry - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 09:54 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The Issue of Iran - [info]freefaith - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 09:45 pm (UTC) Expand
The motive behind the film in this particular time!! - [info]fakhry - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 09:59 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The motive behind the film in this particular time!! - [info]freefaith - Friday, 13 February 2009 at 08:25 am (UTC) Expand
Revolting Reaction
[info]mackname wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 04:34 am (UTC)
It seems that there are certain conditions to have a revolution.

First, to have a well educated upper middle class people who have no decisive administrative role in the governing system of regime.

Second, a great professional working class people who are financially and socially impoverished and generally segregated, hence are unable to improve their social status.

Third, sets of common and motivating causes such as nationalism, etc that can act as the unifying elements between these two groups.

Forth, a well-structured civic life style in most of the country.

What happened in Iran had not been a revolution. It happened so quick and unpredicted, lacking many required conditions for an independent movement.

I have a feeling that we need look for questions and answers elsewhere. The analyses drawn in this article are too naive, frankly too good to be true.
Revolution & Blood
[info]belabau23 wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 09:31 am (UTC)
Dear Mr. Fisk,

Revolution and Blood have a tight connection. Every revolution needed huge amount of blood to fuel its.

However, we should looked at the result afterward.

It's true Iranian nowadays are not good in freedom of speech and so on. But still better than Shah era because Iranian could speaks as what they wanted as long as not against the religion, which the main point that most western government left out.
Revolution & Blood
[info]belabau23 wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 09:43 am (UTC)
It's always the blood with the revolution.

It's always casualities with the revolution.

But the main point is the result afaterward.

Today Iran is better than old Iran (under Shah). Today Iran has sucessfully put themselves independently. old Iran just a pariah to US. Today Iran achieve high level techology which does'nt achieve by any muslim nation nor old Iran.

If US & most NATO member not blocked their economics relation with today Iran, i'm sure Iran will be listed together with Brazil, Russia, India dan China in term of economic development.
HI ROBERT FISK HOW R U IM A GREAT FAN OF YOURS
[info]minhar wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 11:05 am (UTC)
HI ROBERT FISK HOW R U IM A GREAT FAN OF YOURS.I ALWAYS PUBLISH YOUR COMMENTRIES AT MY PERSONAL WEB SITE WWW.MINHAR.SYNTHASITE.COM.....CAUSE U ALWAYS SPEAK THE TRUTH...U R INVITED TO VIEW MY WEB SITE........ MAY GOD BLESS U......MINHAR
Re: HI ROBERT FISK HOW R U IM A GREAT FAN OF YOURS
[info]ganef wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 11:53 am (UTC)
How do you know? Because his views agree with yours?
Re: HI ROBERT FISK HOW R U IM A GREAT FAN OF YOURS - [info]hagaon - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 01:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: HI ROBERT FISK HOW R U IM A GREAT FAN OF YOURS - [info]freefaith - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 09:15 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: HI ROBERT FISK HOW R U IM A GREAT FAN OF YOURS - [info]hagaon - Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 10:56 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: HI ROBERT FISK HOW R U IM A GREAT FAN OF YOURS - [info]freefaith - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 06:23 am (UTC) Expand
Re: HI ROBERT FISK HOW R U IM A GREAT FAN OF YOURS - [info]hagaon - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 09:23 am (UTC) Expand
Re: HI ROBERT FISK HOW R U IM A GREAT FAN OF YOURS - [info]fakhry - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 02:19 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: HI ROBERT FISK HOW R U IM A GREAT FAN OF YOURS - [info]freefaith - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 03:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: HI ROBERT FISK HOW R U IM A GREAT FAN OF YOURS - [info]hagaon - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 08:11 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: HI ROBERT FISK HOW R U IM A GREAT FAN OF YOURS - [info]freefaith - Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 08:32 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Iran: Our only hope?
[info]freeethinker wrote:
Wednesday, 11 February 2009 at 05:17 pm (UTC)
giuseppesapone wrote
" I for one would be very happy if they do aquire them; then, God willing, we can wave bye bye to the appalling Nazi like regime of Israel"


you appear to be yet another blood thirsty theist you do.

you are a very short sighted, unthinking, idiot!
Thank You
[info]abo_obidah wrote:
Thursday, 12 February 2009 at 05:55 pm (UTC)
Thank you Mr. Fisk for another truthful smashing episode, when prophet Mohammad (PBUH) entered Mecca as a conqueror, he forgave the Meccan, who tortured him and many Muslims. This is his way, his Sunnah and that is Islam, any other way is not Sunnah and surely is not Islam.

Savages; All of us
[info]maryleam wrote:
Saturday, 14 February 2009 at 10:48 pm (UTC)
Horrifying story, in particular because man has tortured man since time immemorial, and generally, the technology of torture has changed very little. Are all of us capable of such acts? I think so.

Most popular in Opinion