Commentators

Mostly Cloudy with Showers 8° London Hi 9°C / Lo 7°C

Robert Fisk: Police state is the wrong venue for Obama's speech

Maybe Barack Obama chose Egypt for his "great message" to Muslims tomorrow because it contains a quarter of the world's Arab population, but he is also coming to one of the region's most repressed, undemocratic and ruthless police states. Egyptian human rights groups – when they are not themselves being harassed or closed down by the authorities – have recorded a breathtaking list of police torture, extra-judicial killings, political imprisonments and state-sanctioned assaults on opposition figures that continues to this day.

The sad truth is that so far did the US descend in moral power under George W Bush that Obama would probably have to deliver his lecture in the occupied West Bank, even Gaza, to change the deep resentment and fury that has built up among Muslims over the past eight years. This, of course, Obama will not do. So Egypt, sadly, it has to be, though he will see nothing of the squalor and fear in which Egyptians live.

Only a week ago, for example, the leader of the opposition Ghad party, Ayman Nour – only released from prison by President Hosni Mubarak's regime in February – complained that he was assaulted in a Cairo street by a man with a make-shift flamethrower, suffering first degree burns to his face. Mr Nour spent three years in jail and is outraged by Obama's visit. "It seems to have been intended to bolster the power of the regimes, not of the people," he said. "We are absolutely astonished that our Egyptian political and civil society are ignored. It gives the impression that American interests are more important than American principles." The investigations of human rights groups show Mr Nour has every reason to be angry.

The latest Cairo Institute for Human Rights (CIHR) report on government abuses in the Arab world is packed with examples of state brutality, including 29 cases of torture and ill-treatment in Egyptian police stations in just six months. The Egyptian Organisation of Human Rights, a separate group, discovered that 10 of the 29 died after torture. In one case, rights groups acquired a videotape of a prisoner being anally raped with a stick by a police officer. Other videos show one of Mubarak's political opponents – a woman – being sexually molested by a plain-clothes police officer in a Cairo street. In 2007 alone, the Egyptian syndicate of journalists reported that 1,000 journalists were summoned to appear before government investigative officials.

A prominent case, the CIHR said, was that of Ibrahim Eissa, editor of Al-Dastour newspaper, who received two months in prison for allegedly publishing "false news" about Mubarak's health, thus "undermining public security". Interestingly, Egyptian state television no longer shows news film of Mubarak climbing aircraft steps or conference podiums; Egyptians, of course, wonder why. When Sa'ad eddin Ibrahim, of the Ibn Khaldun Centre for Development Studies, called upon the US to make its billions of dollars of aid to Egypt provisional upon the country's progress in democratic reform, he was condemned in absentia to two years' hard labour. Several bloggers were detained for calling for a public strike on Mubarak's 80th birthday last year. Al-Jazeera's Howeida Taha was fined 16 months ago for "damaging Egypt's reputation" by shooting a film on torture in police stations.

Human rights workers have been physically assaulted as well as arrested. When Dr Magda Adly, of the Al-Nadeem Centre for the rehabilitation of torture victims, left a police station in Kafr el-Dawa after interviewing four detainees who said they had been tortured, she was knocked unconscious and her arm was broken.

Why does Mubarak allow these obscenities to continue? Does he truly believe the extraordinary presidential election figures – he won the 1999 poll with 93.79 per cent, and an earlier 1993 election with 96.3 per cent – or, in his 81st year, is he afraid of his political opponents, however powerless they may be? Will he discuss all this with Obama? It is unlikely.

In fairness, the CIHR also records a series of shameful attacks on journalists by so-called Islamic courts leading, inevitably, to fines. It also recounts a vast litany of torture and executions by other Arab regimes from Tunisia to Syria, including the occupied West Bank and Gaza. So perhaps Obama should stay clear of the lot.

More from Robert Fisk

Post a Comment

View all comments that have been posted about this article.

Offensive or abusive comments will be removed and your IP logged and may be used to prevent further submission. In submitting a comment to the site, you agree to be bound by the Independent Minds Terms of Service.

Comments

Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>
Great article
[info]chesscheckers wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 04:25 am (UTC)
Thank you Mr. Fisk for exposing Hosni Mubarak's atrocities. He is a dictator and lackey of the US and like other Arab dictators and lackeys of the US will do anything to hold on to power.

Therefore, I think that it was a big mistake that Obama chose Cairo for his speech because not only Arabs and Muslims all over the world will take his speech with a grain of salt, but also he will be criticized for giving credence to Mubarak's oppressive rule.
West and Obama Love Pro-Western Dictatorships
[info]alexweir1949 wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 06:06 am (UTC)
West and Obama Love Pro-Western Dictatorships

The West loves election-riggers and vote denyers who are pro-western. The majority of Middle-Eastern and Third World Countries are pro-western dictatorships. It is now time to dismantle this hypocritical charade which fosters terrorism. Britain and US - who supposedly battle terrorism - are in fact the sole sponsors of the same terrorism which they profess to wish to eliminate. This is a no-win situation in its present guise. Eliminate terrorism by bringing justice and freedom to all nations. Every leader who rigs elections is de facto a dictator. Every dictator must become an ex-dictator. Remove dictators by legal means. Implement fraud-proof elections globally.

Fraud-proof voting systems exist on paper, but the West and China are terribly afraid of these systems and their "undesirable implications" (Andrew Ellis, International Institute of Democracy and Electoral Assistance, Stockholm, Sweden, February 2007).

Mr Alex Weir, Harare, Zimbabwe
Re: West and Obama Love Pro-Western Dictatorships
[info]goatbucket wrote:
Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 12:17 pm (UTC)
Unfortunately we know what happens when the "undesirables" win elections - Hamas was the legal political victor in the Palestinian elections.

Disenfranchising Palestinians seems to be considered entirely acceptable by many so-called democrats.
Police State?
[info]hodgeey wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 06:27 am (UTC)
The USA is rapidly turning into a police state, just as the UK is.

"It seems to have been intended to bolster the power of the regimes, not of the people,"

Spot on; Obama and Mubarak (and Brown) are of like minds.
Re: Police State?
[info]findempire wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 08:39 am (UTC)
Who supports indefinite detention without trial of illegal abductees? Obomber, who else? Who is going to slam the illegal abductees of Gitmo into US Supermaxes to be raped and cow-prodded 24/7 for the rest of their lives? Obomber of course. Who has brought back extralegal military tribunals? Barack Obomber. Who has denied legal rights to the abductees of other US torture prisons, like Bagram? You got it. And who stages fake terror scares all the time in order to railroad through police state legislation? Obomber's lapdog Crash Gordon.

Did you know Barack means Mubarak in Swahili, Obomber's mother tongue? Mubarak Obomber and Hosni Mubarak are birds of the same feather, both running state-dominated crony capitalist economies and police states. The "opposition" that Mubarak is constantly lambasted for locking up is the Wahhabi Muslim Brotherhood, that cuts tourists' throats, assassinates Egyptian leaders, and bombs Israeli tourist resorts. 90% of the "anti-government intellectuals" given top billing by the bought-and-paid Wurlitzer media of the West are mouthpieces of Jihadi terrorists.

Mubarak is sitting on a pressure cooker of Jihadism, as unemployment & Saudi subversion drives Egyptian youth towards Wahhabism. His preventive police state measures are far preferable to the Yank-style wedding-bombing or Pak-style epic refugee crisis should the cooker explode. Mubarak knows what he's doing: His crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood has kept Egypt pretty much safe from the spread of Wahhabism from Saudi and now Hamas while his economic policies have kept Egypt growing even during this recession. That growing GDP unfortunately ends up in the pockets mainly of regime cronies but it isn't a bunch of Jihadi nutters who are going to fix that.

Replacing Mubarak should be far down on anyone's agenda because you first have to remove the threats against which Mubarak's regime protects Egypt, like Saudi-backed Wahhabi Jihadism (which now Iran too is bizarrely financing and arming) and Netanyahu/Lieberman-style ultrazionism (which gives the Palestinian Jihadists a raison d'etre) and Mubarak Obomber with his "new improved" war on Islam.
Re: Police State? - [info]britfree - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 03:40 pm (UTC) Expand
Egypt
[info]victormc wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 07:05 am (UTC)
What has come over you Fisky? Two excellent and truthful articles in a row. You must have taken the prescription I suggested. Keep it up regularly one a day is more than enough. (I'm not holding my breath)
I love Egypt, been all over, I have had 3 holidays there- one an extended one of 6 weeks. Wonderful delightful people run by a police/military state. I have mixed with some wealthy/educated Egyptians who told me openly that they keep themselves well protected from the 'street.'who they actually call 'street people.' They have to live in enclaves rather like S. Africa. They have massive problems there mainly they have no idea of their population number which is still growing at a frightening speed. Their economic situation is bordering on the hopeless.
I wish Obama luck I really do.
Where else
[info]dunque123 wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 07:46 am (UTC)
So, where else can Obama make his address ? In an Arab state where liberal democracy and human rights abounds? Hmmm, what planet would that be on then ?
Re: Where else
[info]mustajbeg wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 09:02 am (UTC)
So, dunque123, tell me why Arabs have to practice western democracy. Is USA democracy? Only two parties runs for president-tell me who else can run for president if not these two political parties...
How do you call British political system or Italian wher Government cant last more than few months....So please tell me why Arabs has to practice democracy....if they elect whom they want, then West says that party is not politcally correct (Palestine people elected by democratic means Hamas and you know what happens)....in reallity there is no difference between Arab world and Western world...how do you call Dutch attempt to ban Quran....or british BNP...or Hitler/Mussolini...or Slobodan Milosevic....they are not at same level, of course, but they all represent white people not Arabs
Re: Where else - [info]almu5a - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 12:38 pm (UTC) Expand
y the surprise
[info]stevecc wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 07:57 am (UTC)
On the contrary, it is VERY appropriate that a USA president should be welcomed and feel at home in an oppressive state. Afterall, the USA is the world's biggest mass killer and the (2nd) biggest polluter of the planet. Western media, stop trying to paint the west as having some moral elevation - u r propagadists. Remember yr ra-ra of the Iraq & afganistan invasions, your live coverage of the bombing & yr excited reporters on the balconies - remember - crawl into yr holes, u r part of the problem
Robert Fisk: Police state is the wrong venue for Obama's speech
[info]henrytobias wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 08:08 am (UTC)
The only place in the Middle East that is not a police state is Israel. How ironic that Robert Fisk, who hates Israel with a passion should be the one to point this out. Ha Ha. The truth will out.
Re: Robert Fisk: Police state is the wrong venue for Obama's speech
[info]davidm99 wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 01:29 pm (UTC)
To claim that Israel is NOT a police state and does NOT violate human rights - as it usually does on an hourly basis - is not only false, but quite delusional.

Even if an alien from outer space who's never heard of Israel, simply visited the website of "B'tselem", an Israeli human rights organization, he would quickly learn of the grotesque methods the Israeli regime employs against Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza.

Alas, many of Israel's defenders sit in remote European or North American countries, far from the refugee camps, the roadblocks and the checkpoints, and regurgitate talking points and fallacies.
May not be ideal but gotta start somewhere
[info]luceew wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 08:25 am (UTC)
Whilst not to underestimate nor undermine the appaling HR's issues in Egypt, Egypt does play a big part in neogitating peace in the region. As dunque123 rightly pointed out, where in the ME would we find a democratic and humane country. I live in the ME and am still searching for one. The bottom line is that at least Obama is visiting the region and trying to engage the area in peaceful rhetoric so that in itself cannot be a bad thing.
Re: May not be ideal but gotta start somewhere
[info]victormc wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 09:02 am (UTC)
luceew....'searching' for a democratic country in the ME ? What on earth does that mean? There is only one and it's called Israel which is what sticks in the craw of many posters here even the nutjobs find it hard to argue with that. Doubt they would have you though - tough huh?
Re: May not be ideal but gotta start somewhere - [info]britfree - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 10:46 am (UTC) Expand
Re: May not be ideal but gotta start somewhere - [info]philipshahak - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 11:17 am (UTC) Expand
Re: May not be ideal but gotta start somewhere - [info]imperfidious - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 12:14 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: May not be ideal but gotta start somewhere - [info]victormc - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 01:01 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: May not be ideal but gotta start somewhere - [info]britfree - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 03:06 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: May not be ideal but gotta start somewhere - [info]goatbucket - Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 12:22 pm (UTC) Expand
Greenhouses, stones.
[info]ron_broxted wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 09:14 am (UTC)
The sad thing is I automatically thought it was Britain (the police state) you spoke of. Al Masr has many problems and could do with a freeing up of opposition yet how many Duck Islands float along the Nile?
the only friends..
[info]britfree wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 10:44 am (UTC)
zionism has in the region (if you dont count the public school hashemites ) .a bought and paid for dictator , paid gazillions to repress a population , that would , but for the torture dungeons etc , be a huge resevoir of rejectionism , far more effective than britfrees shouting from afar . this is the reality of amerikkkan foreign policy , stripped of its hyperbole , they will support any kind of savage , in order to achieve their theft and repression . a friend of freedom ? a friend of democracy ? any disinterested reading of recent history would suggest the polar opposite is the reality
the squashing of free speech ..
[info]britfree wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 10:58 am (UTC)
will start soon , absolutely no chance of free speech on the comment boards of the independent . let ALL the voices be heard ? nope !
Re: the squashing of free speech .. - [info]goatbucket - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 04:12 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: the squashing of free speech .. - [info]britfree - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 10:30 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: the squashing of free speech .. - [info]goatbucket - Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 11:51 am (UTC) Expand
Who are these appearances really for?
[info]bobav wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 11:15 am (UTC)
It is quite clear, as it always has been, that any grand speeches given by American politicians in allied Muslim countries or elsewhere where there is a record of human rights abuses that generally appall the American voter (if the ability of the corporatized media to sanitize and bury such abuses is compromised) are speeches being given to the American public, and not for the benefit of the people who live in squalor and fear in the countries where they are given.

There was never any reason to believe that Obama would change that practice. It is at the basis of a system of propaganda that requires allegiance from the American public regardless of what is actually happening (ex: in Egypt,as described by Fisk). Speeches from far flung despotic states are largely useful to the US on geopolitical terms as ways to bolster and pay off the protectors of the multinationals that are slowly impoverishing even the majority of US citizens in order to protect wealth and control of global supply of resources.

In return, the despots are required to show their allegiances to the US through making their US sponsored and enhanced systems of imprisonment and torture available for the use of the enforcement tactics employed against any who are considered to be a true threat, as well as those innocents who get caught in the dragnet of US/multinational paranoia and control. Of course, these innocents cannot easily be afforded freedom for fear they would break through the silence that is maintained and cultivated around these systems of imprisonment and torture by such puppet despots as Mubarek. Hence, the continuation of the need for charismatic (or not so charismatic ) leaders from the US to go on widely and sunnily projected PR trips abroad to appear to be reassuring the people who must live under such inhumane constraints in places such as Egypt.

In fact the reassurance and PR is all meant to coddle and placate the voters back home.
BOB I AGREE IT IS SOUND AND LIGHT AND COLOUR CAMERAS
[info]famulla wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 01:16 pm (UTC)
He should wear helmet first then feet into the bullet proof, cannon proof , missile proof auto and chopper cades the speak from the DTP via the big screen simultaneously . Only problem his scientists say. The sound travel slower then light. So he will seen first. Then after few minutes or hours his sound. By that time, all will go home. Am I right so far? I have little mirrors and sound knowledge .CRM is bad at times.
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla
American interests and principles one and the same thing
[info]rjd8 wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 01:34 pm (UTC)
With respect to Ayman Nour's comment - American principles and American interests are one and the same thing. It remains to be seen whether the US will be able to hold its web of despotic puppets together as Israel threatens to disobey its master and unleash a strom that no-one may be able to control.
Can't make everyone happy
[info]rumours79 wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 01:53 pm (UTC)
If he did nothing, you people would be moaning. If he tries, you're still bitching. This man has got the hardest job in the world and I pity him because no matter how hard he tries or how good his intentions there will always be some joker trying to smack him down. Of course these types never have a solution to the problem.
Re: Can't make everyone happy
[info]britfree wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 02:48 pm (UTC)
where have you been ? these threads are full of respondents who know exactly the solution to the zionist problem . his "good intentions" are in doubt , i have yet to meet a single amerikkkan that could separate the supremacy of amerikkkas interests from the global good . their muscular chauvinism is their over-riding motivation , that and their insatiable greed
pretty new sickbag .......
[info]britfree wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 03:15 pm (UTC)
same ol' amerikkkan vomit , this was my response to those people that thought "things can only get better " with barak obama (when i met him he was introduced to me as "barry", funny that !) . an easy smile , an aspirational turn of phrase , youthful novelty , does he remind you of someone ? he will turn out to be a warmongering phony too .
Re: pretty new sickbag .......
[info]dbdublin wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 08:07 pm (UTC)
I'm not much of a Barry fan myself, but perhaps you would prefer Putin, Castro, or Chavez.

This "cool" Euro anti-Americanism is becoming trite and annoying. Next time you need a friend call Fidel.
Re: pretty new sickbag ....... - [info]britfree - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 10:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: pretty new sickbag ....... - [info]dbdublin - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 11:17 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: pretty new sickbag ....... - [info]britfree - Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 11:58 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: pretty new sickbag ....... - [info]dbdublin - Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 06:15 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: pretty new sickbag ....... - [info]goatbucket - Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 12:26 pm (UTC) Expand
I am happy
[info]famulla wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 06:02 pm (UTC)
Ask me why?
2012 doomsday prediction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I thank you
Firozali A. Mulla

He is going there as it is the least likely place he will be bombed
[info]kuma2000 wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 06:34 pm (UTC)
For an American who has been taught to bow down and suck the circumcised penis the sensible thing would be to stay back in the US.
Police State
[info]dbdublin wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 07:56 pm (UTC)
Where does Mr. Fisk propose to find a non-police state in the Middle East to give the speech? Mr. Obama would have to give his speach in Israel, the Middle East's only democracy. Somehow I don't think that would please Mr. Fisk either.
Re: Police State
[info]goatbucket wrote:
Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 06:24 pm (UTC)
http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery06022009.html

They love their freedom of speech in Israel, don't they?
Obama's speech
[info]robz53 wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 09:07 pm (UTC)
He SHOULD deliver his speech with the apartheid wall as a backdrop and declare that it must come down.He SHOULD acknowledge what repeated torture of Khalid Sheik Mohammed[the"9/11 mastermind"] ascertained-that US SUPPORT FOR THE BRUTAL,UNJUST TREATMENT OF THE PALESTINIANS IS A MAJOR FACTOR IN THE RADICALISATION OF MUSLIMS.HE should but he won't so we just keep ignoring the rampaging,murdering,land stealing elephant in the room.
Re: Obama's speech
[info]dbdublin wrote:
Wednesday, 3 June 2009 at 11:26 pm (UTC)
Always nice to hear from an anti-Semite.

I know who Khalid Sheik Mohammed is, you don't have to explain in brackets. Probably a hero of yours.
Re: Obama's speech - [info]robz53 - Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 07:21 pm (UTC) Expand
where else, then?
[info]gabrielguel wrote:
Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 04:46 am (UTC)
Perhaps in the democratic Jordan or Syria, or perhaps Saudi Arabia itself...
Shame Arabs did not follow afetr the human rights policies of Britain and the US, or did they? the tortures and assassinations these two countries have spread across the world...self declare democratic, human rights defenders, Saxon countries are the main cause of most bloodiest conflicts in this world
Holidays in Egypt
[info]thorntongate wrote:
Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 06:57 am (UTC)
victormc

The Duke of Windsor had a "wonderful" holiday in Germany in 1937, but that doesn't mean the Nazis ran a democratic state and supported human rights for all.

Are you visitng Burma this year? Or North Korea?

Re: Holidays in Egypt
[info]peteq8 wrote:
Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 09:57 am (UTC)
Re: Obama's speech

Hey dublin, why is it when anyone speaks the truth about Israel they are accused of being an anti-Semite? The Israeli's and their friends have been using this tactic for decades.

Considering that Arabs are Semitic people, if I criticise them does that make me an anti-Semite? No.

What you are saying is that anyone who tells the truth about Israel is anti-jewish. Which is of course preposterous.

Please stop being deceitful.

peteq8
Re: Holidays in Egypt - [info]jerusalem1 - Friday, 12 June 2009 at 12:30 pm (UTC) Expand
Mubarak and the US
[info]tobek00 wrote:
Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 11:59 am (UTC)
Mubarak is a staunch ally of the US, and the US is a staunch supporter of the Egyptian regime. The US may not like how Egyptian police are dealing with the media and Human rights groups, but they have to and are dealing with it. Anything is better than another Youm Kippur war.

Lets keep in mind that Mubarak did not deprive hundreds of thousands of people off food and medicine (1990s Iraq), did not kill hundreds of thousands of innocents civilians, and did not lie to go to war. He has been preaching for peace in the region, for a middle east that is free of WMDs, for a better life for Palestinians, and for the end of regional wars. The man has flaws, but remember that Egypt is not an oil rich country, and is facing many challenges, Iran, and local terrorists - the "Muslim" brotherhood, who is a supporter of Hamas, Hizbulla, and Iran. Egyptian police do torture terrorists, and suspects, but that is no where close to Guantanamo, or the famed Israeli prisons.

The US wants Mubarak in power and will do anything to keep him in power. Because the US knows well, that local opposition is weak, and any fair elections would see the Muslim brotherhood coming into power, i.e. another regional war!

Egypt may seem like a police state, to someone who is only reading article headings, or to someone who is not familiar with Egyptians and Egyptian politics. Egypt has to crack down hard on terrorists and must imprison reporters paid for buy Iran. One has to remember that the HR problems facing Egypt to day, are nothing compared to what Americans faced no so long ago.

So, is Obama right in choosing Egypt? Absoloutly! If he can sway Egyptians, then he's owned the Arab and Muslim world. Hopefully, unlike his predecessor, Obama can persuade - rather than demand - the Egyptians to be more democratic, yet preventing terrorists from gaining more power.
Good article
[info]fiskisadisgrace wrote:
Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 12:17 pm (UTC)

Although Obama did intend to make this speech in an Arab country. Arab countries that are not police states are a little hard to come by. So I don't really see his options.

It's true that certain politics about maintaining Egypt's status in the region were in play when choosing Egypt for this speech. But you might be asking a little too much from Obama. He can't try to appease the Arab world without working with any of the current ruling governments in the Middle East.
Egypt, Gaza, tunnels
[info]fiskisadisgrace wrote:
Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 01:37 pm (UTC)

Regarding the I/P conflict: Egypt currently holds a major role in the stability vis-a-vis Gaza: they were put in charge; even before the commitments they signed with Israel after the war against Hamas, to prevent rocket smugglings into Gaza.

Most of the rockets and explosives to Hamas go through tunnels and passages in Rafah- through Egypt. No only that, but the route before getting to Rafah goes through the Sinai by ground, and the red sea before that. These tunnels need to be shut, and the borders policed more thoroughly. That is, without preventing supplies reaching the Palestinian population.

One of the issues discussed with the U.S., I'm sure, will be Egypt fulfilling with conviction the actions it has signed to perform as part of the effort to end smuggling into Gaza. So far, reports suggest the Egyptian forces have stepped up their efforts after the latest Gaza operation. But hardly enough.

A very large part of the solution to a halt in hostilities and a restart of the peace process is their role in weakening Hamas. It remains to be seen if they wish, and can, meet their commitments and back up with actions their self-possessed view as a responsible, regional leader.


Re: Egypt, Gaza, tunnels
[info]tizab wrote:
Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 03:05 pm (UTC)
What you are suggesting will not bring peace to the Palestinian people. We know that the Palestinians have been evicted from their land unjustly. In an ideal world, if we could stay away from their conflict, a conflict that has nothing to do with the "unrelated people", that is "us" being outside those countries. Only then, the Palestinian and the Israelis may have a chance to achieve a lasting peace. By staying away I mean the world not to sell weapons to Israel and Arab countries. Then we could argue that Egypt also should block the tunnels. For the time being Israel with the help of the US, they are together having a jolly nice party in someone else's home and of course, paying the cost of the partying to Egypt. Egypt is torturing its own nationals to keep everyone quiet while the little grooves via the tunnel is inadvertently being left open to use.
Regards,
Tizab
Re: Egypt, Gaza, tunnels - [info]fiskisadisgrace - Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 03:49 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Egypt, Gaza, tunnels - [info]goatbucket - Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 05:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Egypt, Gaza, tunnels - [info]fiskisadisgrace - Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 07:29 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Egypt, Gaza, tunnels - [info]goatbucket - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 02:49 pm (UTC) Expand
Obama talks of a new beginning whith Muslims? How terribly odd
[info]evilbadmike wrote:
Thursday, 4 June 2009 at 05:23 pm (UTC)
And as Obama talks about a new beginning with Muslims, charred corpses of women and children litter the villages of Afghanistan and Pakistan - fresh victims of yet more erroneous bombings by US drones? Heavens no! They were all Al-Quieda and the Americans can swear to it; even the babies - after all using the Israeli logic they would have become terrorists in 18 years, no? But then there is this wonderful warm and fuzzy relationship with Hosni Mubarak, a Christian (not comprehended by most American as in their feeble minds all Arabs must be Muslims) whose atrocities such as the daily torture and murder of Muslim political groups are no less gory than the crimes of Saddam. A rope for Mubarak perhaps? Not by a long shot. Or is Obama addressing the "Muslim" leader of Pakistan - Zardari who has now famously graduated to "Mr. 50%" with charges of murder, rape and abuse of public trust with the looting of Pakistan's treasury, all conveniently wiped off and his new political buddy Altaf "the-Rapist" Hussein with his numerous charges of murder, torture and rape pending in UK courts, surely these thugs represent the Muslim diaspora, no ? Well as long as they stay ensconced in their well fortified palaces with 20 feet high walls, safe from their countrymen would like nothing more than to lynch them- maybe they do.
Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>

Most popular in Opinion