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Robert Fisk: Secret letter 'proves Mousavi won poll'

Images posted on Twitter apparently showing supporters of Mirhossein Mousavi who had been shot and injured

Images posted on Twitter apparently showing supporters of Mirhossein Mousavi who had been shot and injured

They were handing out the photocopies by the thousand under the plane trees in the centre of the boulevard, single sheets of paper grabbed by the opposition supporters who are now wearing black for the 15 Iranians who have been killed in Tehran – who knows how many more in the rest of the country? – since the election results gave Mahmoud Ahmadinejad more than 24 million votes and a return to the presidency. But for the tens of thousands marking their fifth day of protests yesterday – and for their election campaign hero, Mirhossein Mousavi, who officially picked up just 13 million votes – those photocopies were irradiated.

For the photocopy appeared to be a genuine but confidential letter from the Iranian minister of interior, Sadeq Mahsuli, to Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, written on Saturday 13 June, the day after the elections, and giving both Mr Mousavi and his ally, Mehdi Karroubi, big majorities in the final results. In a highly sophisticated society like Iran, forgery is as efficient as anywhere in the West and there are reasons for both distrusting and believing this document. But it divides the final vote between Mr Mousavi and Mr Karroubi in such a way that it would have forced a second run-off vote – scarcely something Mousavi's camp would have wanted.

Headed "For the Attention of the Supreme Leader" it notes "your concerns for the 10th presidential elections" and "and your orders for Mr Ahmadinejad to be elected president", and continues "for your information only, I am telling you the actual results". Mr Mousavi has 19,075,623, Mr Karroubi 13,387,104, and Mr Ahmadinejad a mere 5,698,417.

Could this letter be a fake? Even if Mr Mousavi won so many votes, could the colourless Mr Karroubi have followed only six million votes behind him? And however incredible Mr Ahmadinejad's officially declared 63 per cent of the vote may have been, could he really – as a man who has immense support among the poor of Iran – have picked up only five-and-a-half million votes? And would a letter of such immense importance be signed only "on behalf of the minister"?

The letter may well join the thousands of documents, real and forged, that have shaped Iran's recent history, the most memorable of which were the Irish passports upon which Messers Robert McFarlane and Oliver North travelled to Iran on behalf of the US government in 1986 to offer missiles for hostages. The passports were real – and stolen – but the identities written onto the document were fake. Mr Ahmadinejad's loyalists will undoubtedly blame "foreigners" for the "letter" to Ayatollah Khamenei. But its electrifying effect on the Mousavi camp will only help to transform suspicion into the absolute conviction that their leader was quite deliberately deprived of the presidency. Marjane Satrapi, the acclaimed author and the Oscar-winning director of the black and white cartoon Persepolis, was in Brussels brandishing the same document.

In Tehran, there must have been five or six thousand Iranians wearing black, many of them carrying this toxic document in their hands, although they were far fewer than Monday's million-strong march and scarcely a fifth of their number reached Azadi Square from the centre of Tehran. Their enthusiasm to maintain their protest – led yesterday by a cavalry of a hundred or more motorbike riders – was cruelly treated by the organisers, who clearly had little idea whether they were supposed to direct them to a central venue or all the way out to Azadi. At times, they stood in the heat for more than a quarter of an hour while organisers argued about the route. This was no way to overthrow a government.

What was significant, however, was that once more the security authorities chose not to confront the Mousavi demonstrators. Military conscripts wearing bright yellow jackets and standing with their hands clasped behind their back – rather than holding batons – lined the first mile of the road but then abandoned the marchers to their own devices. This followed less than 24 hours after the frightening confrontation between up to 20,000 Mousavi and Ahmadinejad supporters at Vanak Square on Tuesday night when Iranian special forces paramilitary police protected Mr Mousavi's men and women from the government "Basiji" militia. Although some civilians were later hurt in fist-fights on the street, the government cops brought in reinforcements and prevented the Basiji and thousands of other Ahmadinejad supporters from entering north Tehran.

Mousavi was clearly behind yesterday's half-hearted march, for he issued a statement to the participants, condemning those who killed seven men in the dormitories at Tehran University on Sunday night "and beat boy and girl students and killed people in Azadi Square". He sympathised, he said, with these "martyrs" and urged all Iranians to send their condolences to the families of those who had been killed.

The highly dubious election results, however, are arousing concern far outside Mr Mousavi's millions of voters. Fifty-two MPs have asked the interior minister why he could not prevent the post-election intimidation and violence. Parliament has asked for a fact-finding investigation into the vandalisation of Tehran University property. Ali-Akbar Mohtashemi, a member of the Combatant Clerics Assembly – an important figure who founded the Iranian Revolutionary Guards and sent them to Lebanon when he was Iran's ambassador to Damascus – has demanded a committee to investigate the election results, made up of senior clerics, MPs, members of the judiciary, the Council of Guardians and an official of the interior ministry.

But suppression of the free speech which Mr Mousavi's loyalists demand so insistently continues. Yesterday morning, a 26-year-old student doing his doctorate at Oxford, Mohamed Reza Jaleopour, son of a professor at Tehran University, was arrested without charge at Tehran airport. The pro-Mousavi paper Green Word was again closed down.

As for Mr Mousavi, it seems that, once broken, the "mind-forged manacles of fear" are difficult to re-attach. But revolutionary governments are tough, steely creatures with sharp claws, and the Ahmadinejad regime is not about to collapse.

Interior Ministry's letter to the Supreme Leader

Salaam Aleikum.

Regarding your concerns for the 10th presidential elections and due to your orders for Mr Ahmedinejad to be elected President, in this sensitive time, all matters have been organised in such a way that the results of the election will be in line with the revolution and the Islamic system. The following result will be declared to the people and all planning should be put in force to prevent any possible action from the opposition, and all party leaders and election candidates are under intense surveillance. Therefore, for your information only, I am telling you the actual results as follows:

Mirhossein Mousavi: 19,075,623

Mehdi Karroubi: 13,387,104

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: 5,698,417

Mohsen Rezai: 38,716

(signed on behalf of the minister)

Day 5 of Iran crisis

Political football

Iran's World Cup qualifier against South Korea in Seoul yesterday took on a decidedly political flavour. At least five of the Iranian team sported green bands around their arms or wrists – the signature accessory of Mousavi supporters back on the streets of Tehran – in an apparent protest against the disputed election back home.

But after half-time, some had removed the impromptu additions to their kit, prompting speculation they had been ordered to do so by their coach. The captain Mehdi Mahdavikia seemed to defy the team edict, much to the delight of fans waving banners with the plea "Free Iran" and chanting "Go to Hell Dictator". The game ended 1-1.

Ambassadors berated

Diplomatic relations frayed as the government summoned an ensemble of Western ambassadors to complain about interference. According to Iranian state TV, Tehran accused Washington of "intolerable" meddling in its internal affairs, the first time it has blamed the US for playing a role in the post-election turmoil. Barack Obama took pains to note there was little difference between Ahmadinejad and Mousavi. "Either way we are going to be dealing with an Iranian regime that has historically been hostile to the United States," he said. Britain's ambassador was berated for the recent comments of Gordon Brown and David Miliband, as well as the BBC's news coverage of the crisis. France, Germany and Italy were also given a talking to.

Missing persons

The International Campaign for Human Rights in Iran reported that scores of notable figures had been arrested and their whereabouts unknown. These included Saeed Hajarian – a one-time adviser to the reformist president Mohammed Khatami – who sustained brain and spinal injuries in a failed assassination attempt nine years ago, and as such needs constant medical attention. Also arrested was Mohammad Ali Abtahi, a senior adviser to Mehdi Karroubi who came in third in Friday's presidential election, according to the official results. Mohamed Reza Jaleopour, the son of a reformist university professor, was also detained at Tehran airport as he prepared to fly to England where he is studying for a PhD at Oxford University.

Regime splits

It emerged that the daughter of Hashemi Rafsanjani, the head of the influential Assembly of Experts that has the right to dismiss the Supreme Leader, had attended Tuesday's opposition rally. Faezeh Rafsanjani's public display of support for Mousavi, in defiance of a ban on unauthorised marches from the interior ministry, was widely interpreted as another sign of high-level rifts in the Islamic Republic. Meanwhile Mousavi has declared today a day of mourning, urging Iranians to come together in mosques or congregate peacefully on the streets. "A number of our countrymen were wounded or martyred," he said on his website. "I ask the people to express their solidarity with the families."

Bloggers threatened

Iran's Revolutionary Guards, the country's most powerful military force, made its first pronouncement on the post-election crisis, warning that the country's bloggers must remove any materials that "create tension" or face legal action. It marked another escalation of the information crackdown. But graphic images and detailed updates continued to leak out over sites such as Twitter, although the traffic directly from Iran appeared fractionally lighter than in previous days.

More from Robert Fisk

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The gun has been fired...
[info]zened wrote:
Wednesday, 17 June 2009 at 11:46 pm (UTC)
Ahmadinejad had better watch out. His years of encouraging crowds to scream death to America have rebounded. Crowds are now screaming death to the Dictator; soon a well aimed shot will pierce his skull and he will have got what he deserves for the deaths of the young democratic protesters.

This stolen election has pulled the trigger on the gun that will kill Ahmadinejad. As they say; if you live by the sword you will die by the sword.

That will leave the real fighters to battle it out. This is really the Rafsanjani versus Khamenei show.

Enjoy your assassination Ahmadinejad; it will come from one of your own closets bodyguards.

Re: The gun has been fired...
[info]inigo23 wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 12:19 am (UTC)
yeah, screaming death to Americans, having completely forgotten the 23 years spent as a puppet nation under the Shah for the USA oil industry, of course Iran is going to be suspicious of America, for a start American has invaded the countries on both sides under fabricated pretences in order in secure the natural assets and wealth of those nations under this axis of evil nonesense, you should read up on Ahmadinejad's opponent Mousavi, check out his links to the Iran-Contra affair and the CIA, if he was instated they could start work on the pipeline to the Caspian sea tomorrow....
Re: The gun has been fired... - [info]zened - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 12:33 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The gun has been fired... - [info]ancientoneuk - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 03:20 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The gun has been fired... - [info]dissembly - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 04:47 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The gun has been fired... - [info]their_vodka - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 09:53 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The gun has been fired... - [info]freedommonger - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 10:24 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The gun has been fired... - [info]adamhughes120 - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 05:30 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The gun has been fired... - [info]freedommonger - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 07:03 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The gun has been fired... - [info]adamhughes120 - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 11:26 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The gun has been fired... - [info]freedommonger - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 12:06 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The gun has been fired... - [info]adamhughes120 - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 02:00 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The gun has been fired... - [info]freedommonger - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 02:22 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The gun has been fired... - [info]safwan09 - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 03:30 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The gun has been fired... - [info]sickofstupidity - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 12:24 pm (UTC) Expand
another day....
[info]britfree wrote:
Wednesday, 17 June 2009 at 11:53 pm (UTC)
another anti najad diatribe from the iran-o-phobe fisk . the revolutionary guard and the guardian council should now declare that enough is enough and start to mobilise the majority vote to reclaim the streets from these very vocal sore losers , their advancement of this amerikkkan agenda is now starting to threaten the integrity of the revolution itself . i suspect if the rebels really prefer streetfighting to democracy , the poor will prove to be formidable . election results should not be overturned by foreign intelligence assets , a dose of timisoara might show these "students" what happens when the peoples will is highjacked by a bourgeois rebellion .
Re: britwannabe
[info]zened wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 12:12 am (UTC)
britfree!

How much does Ahmad pay you per post you make?

I must congratulate you though; this is the first post I have seen from you that does not contain the words Jew, Israel or Zionist.

However you did get the Rev Wright 'kkk' plagurism in; you did manage to insult the deaths of the innocents in Iran and you did manage to try to convince yourself that Ahmad won the election; we all know not even Ahamd believes that!

We all know Ahmadinejad is the Zionist candidate in the Iranian coup doh.

Keep taking the medication.
Re: britwannabe - [info]trendzetter - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 02:25 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: another day.... - [info]achilles0200 - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 08:13 pm (UTC) Expand
Please
[info]dkervick wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 01:03 am (UTC)
The letter is positively hilarious. No one in such a position would express himself with such a lack of circumspection.
Re: Please
[info]lima_charlie wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 02:20 am (UTC)
Heh, I also thought it felt pretty odd and it didn't ring true for me as being particularly believable.
Sort of a...

"Dear Sir,

In line with your pre-agreed plan (aka 'Operation Ending Freedom') the votes have all be ignored and your preferred candidate has been declared as the winner. Still, even though it was the plan to fix it all along we counted the votes anyway (hey, we were bored) and it was just as well we fixed it because your fella got trounced! Here's the figures. See? He didn't even make second! We all had a chuckle at that then carried on with that phoney recount you asked us to do. We'll try and come up with some new numbers that still have the other guy losing but not quite so heavily and hope that does the job...

Anyway, have a nice day,
yrs. The Interior Ministry

p.s. Do not leave this letter lying around the photocopier"

On a less flippant note it's encouraging to see that a number of higher profile individuals are now starting to break ranks. It was also a bold move by those football players who chose to protest in such a visible way. I hope it does not have any adverse repercussions for them further on down the line.

It's certainly been an eye-opener seeing for the first time in mass media a different face of Iran that seemingly wants to engage with the outside world (even including the west) in a less deliberately combative manner, and which doesn't seem so heavily influenced by religious conservatism and deference to the clerical establishment.
Re: Please - [info]nazcalito - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 06:27 pm (UTC) Expand
the young morons of Iran
[info]a_al_amin wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 01:52 am (UTC)
It is an illusion you are chasing, being used as agents of CiA, making your own country slave to America without them having to lose any blood. After Iraq, they were going to invade you, but then they figured out it would cost hugely in terms of money and life. But they are no longer able or willing to spend both, after the lesson in Iraq and the financial meltdown. So their strategy is to bring Iran on its knees by creating the infighting.

You are all pawns in a political game, the sooner you realize the better for you, oh Iranian youth! If you succeed in toppling the govt you lose, because your country will bleed from infighting more than Iraq and Afghanistan. If you fail, you lose too, because the little democracy and freedom you enjoyed till now will be taken from you due to irresponsible behavior. Better come to terms within yourselves, and recognize the danger in the foreign powers dreaming of a meek, slavish Iran. Because after fall of Iraq, you Iranians are the main obstacle for them to attack other Islamic countries around you.


Re: the young morons of Iran
[info]zened wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 10:45 am (UTC)
Oh Paranoid posters! How I weep for thee!!

One minute you tell the poor youth of Iran to stop beign CIA agents then you realise that they are indeed fighting for more freedoms!

Oh poor self-contradictory commentator how confused your two brain cells are, perhaps they got lost and cannot find themselves inside your big empty head?

Iran is being run by mafia dictators who make Iran seem very backward; the only way for Iran to improve is to have a proper election where the votes are counted in a verifiable way. I suggest again that instead of banning women from the election Iran bans all men.
Re: the young morons of Iran - [info]corporeal4now - Friday, 19 June 2009 at 04:02 am (UTC) Expand
Fine I say. You get the votes and you want the freedom to dance in the disco nude as the case was in
[info]famulla wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 02:21 am (UTC)
Robert Fisk: Secret letter 'proves Mousavi won poll'
Another good one from Robert Fisk. Thank you. The cartoon of today tells the story of the black robe once the pride has been shredded by the many modern women crying, ?Where is my vote? Fine I say. You get the votes and you want the freedom to dance in the disco nude as the case was in the time of Shah but have you thought the daughters of tomorrow. They may developed acute hunger syndromes with the ZERO figures that women crave. They slowly shrivel and die bad.
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla
Re: Fine I say. You get the votes and you want the freedom to dance in the disco nude as the case wa
[info]achilles0200 wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 02:18 pm (UTC)
famulla it may seem incredible to you but just because women throw off their black robes they may not all end up nude and/or annorexic!

If you are so scared of allowing people to make their own choices why not turn Iran into a vast prison camp? Oh, I forgot it already is!





Letter
[info]justagreenie wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 02:24 am (UTC)
Robert, I am a great fan of yours, and turn to your reports from the Middle East when I want to know what is really happening. But Blind Freddy could see that the letter is a fake, and I am surprised that you are using it as a peg to hang this report on.
Re: Letter
[info]media_myths wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 07:43 am (UTC)
If you read the article carefully you'll see that Mr. Fisk is pointing out that he thinks the letter is a fake. The headline was probably produced by someone on work experience back in London.
Re: Letter - [info]justagreenie - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 11:46 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Letter - [info]media_myths - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 03:44 pm (UTC) Expand
Iranian Troubles
[info]chinmonkeymetal wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 02:38 am (UTC)
The cat is now out of the bag. The Iranian elections have now been proved to be fraudulent. According to the information given to the Guardian over 100% of the population of 30 polling districts voted. So even the most innumerate reader will know that is impossible. Best that the western powers leave the people of Iran alone to sort their own troubles out. Maybe Ahmadinejad will get the same treatment as Ceausescu. Most tyrants. come to a bad end.
Oh yes
[info]thefetcher wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 03:05 am (UTC)
As if anyone would believe anything this paper prints. Anything to promote the Far left liberal elite.
gobshites who have helped to destroy the meaning of democracy.

Can you robert please...
[info]ancientoneuk wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 03:29 am (UTC)
Do some more research, why are you not highlighting the exit polls which showed that the winner had massive support and Mousavi only 15% of the populist vote. The exit polls throw a very odd light on this whole affair or are we not having it suggested that the foreign media's exit polls are making it up for the current President too?

I always thought you were someone to be trusted, from the first time I met you in Philip Howards office accompanying my late mother, to many dinner parties and functions, Sir you were a man I admired but this quasi CIA rubbish you are touting is not professional.

This article, like some of late of yours, feels like you sold out...

And remember too please that this is from a nation that has not only stolen its own elections to force Bush into power but those too of other nations including suspected interference with our own here in the UK bringing Blair in that final time, certainly the FBI and CIA interference in Mexico's elections drew the same reaction from the people and like in Mexico, as in Iran, it would suit the NeoCons, the Hawks and the Israeli's right down to the ground to watch Iran tear itself to pieces.

Remember Mr Fisk, Bush a few years ago publicly sanctioning CIA covert ops in Iran to destabilise and bring about regime change? This is modus operandi for these people, divide and conquer, support the dictator and the corrupt and grind the common man into the mud...
Re: Can you robert please...
[info]jaded63 wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 04:01 am (UTC)
The simple fact is that the vast majority of the Iranian electorate know perfectly well that Mousavi won the poll. Hence the outrage felt and expressed by the 'green' faction, which it is quite clear have overwhelming public support.

Whatever happens long-term, the attempt by the ruling elite to brazenly defraud the electorate has rebounded on them spectacularly, and will surely have consequences that will change the face of Iran one way or another.
Re: Can you robert please... - [info]penny_reese - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 06:57 am (UTC) Expand
Sore losers
[info]floppsiefrog wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 03:40 am (UTC)
It appears as if Iran's young, urban impressionable wannabe celebrity revolutionaries, who would be branded as terrorists in America, are sick of socialism and cannot accept the outcome of the election even though the result was predicted in the polls. The prospective colour revolution has failed to secure an acquiescent government and Obama is stuck with the outspoken Ahmadinejad for the remainder of his term. Of course, the Israelis will be delighted with the outcome as it will give Netanyahu an excuse to continue with his brutal American sponsored colonisation project. It will also please the pro-Israeli dummies in Congress who recently voted additional hundreds of billions for the occupation of Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, the intervention in Pakistan in addition to predatory credit for the IMF to offer cash strapped African regimes with resources to exploited. What a wonderful world. No wonder the Chinese and Russians want to dump the dollar.
More...
[info]getplaning wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 05:24 am (UTC)
Source: IBT Times

Iranian who leaked election results may have been assassinated

17 June 2009 @ 05:12 pm BST
Next Global News Article

An Iranian man said to have released the genuine result of last Friday's presidential election is reported to have been killed in a suspicious car accident.

Mohammad Asgari, who worked for the Iranian interior ministry to protect the security of its IT network allegedly released results showing that the government used new software to rig the result, reports the Guardian's Saeed Kamali Dehghan, citing unconfirmed reports.

Officially President Ahmadinejad received two thirds of the vote with around 24.5 million votes, while his closest rival, Mir Hossein Mousavi, received over 13 million votes.

According to the leaked figures Mr Ahmadinejad actually came third in a four-horse race whilst Mr Mousavi received the most votes with 19 million ballots cast in his favour.


Read more: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/20090617/iran-electio...

Re: More...
[info]their_vodka wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 10:06 am (UTC)
Good find.
There is a big crack in the Islamic Republic
[info]chesscheckers wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 06:05 am (UTC)
If Khamenei refuses to order a revote, then the people will change the system and the government through no-violent means. This movement cannot be stopped. It is the beginning of the second revolution.
Who says the document is genuine?
[info]giuseppesaponi wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 06:17 am (UTC)
Documents were found on an "Iranian" laptop supposedly showing that Iran was covertly diverting nuclear material to a weapons programme. It has now been disclosed that this evidence was fabricated by the Mossad. See
www.counterpunch.org/porter06042009.html

We also know that just a year ago the U.S. adminsitration allocated nearly $500 million to covert operations in Iran, including funding the opposition and anti-government terrorist groups.
The only real evidence concerning the outcome of the election was a poll carried out by voting bodies based in the U.S. and published in the Washington Post on 15 June which predicted a clear Ahmadinejad win. Funny how our Zionist controlled Western media have chosen to ignore it. The results are outlined here...
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/14/AR2009061401757.html

For a non-Zionist explanation of what is happening read this article...
www.counterpunch.org/roberts06162009.html

It is also pretty sickening to think how the Western media ignored Israel's rounding up of the Palestinian government elected in what Jimmy carter said was the fairest election he had ever witnessed in early 2007 compared to the coverage the defeat of the Iranian opposition if being given.

Re: Who says the document is genuine?
[info]ganef wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 06:37 am (UTC)
"Zionist controlled Western media"

Moderator: This is defined by the UK government as antisemitism.

Guidelines on Antisemitism

The all-party committee on antisemitism in the UK set up by the government recommended the adoption of the EU Working Committee (EUWC) definition on the subject.

Antisemitism is defined as a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred towards
Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed towards Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, towards Jewish community institutions and religious facilities. In addition, such manifestations could also target the State of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. Antisemitism frequently targets Jews with conspiring to harm humanity and is often used to blame Jews for "why things go wrong".

Among contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

- Making mendacious, dehumanizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such, or the power of Jews as collective - such as, especially, but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.

- Accusing Jews as a people for being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.

- Denying the genocide of Jews in Germany (the Holocaust/Shoah)

- Accusing Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust,

- Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel than their own state.

Examples of how antisemitism manifests itself with regards to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:

- Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, eg., by claiming that the existence of the State of Israel is a racist endeavour.

- Applying double standards by requiring of it a behaviour not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

- Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (eg., claims of the Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterise Israel or Israelis.

- Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

- Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the State of Israel.

However, criticism of Israel similar to that levelled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.

So there you have it. The opinions of several contributors to these blogs, including, but not limited to, britfree, guiseppesaponi, robx53, ancientoneuk, goatbucket, findempire, copycat7, philipshahak, whihadist (and his holohoax), rhinocircus, clearly reach or breach the definition of antisemitism and the Independent happily publishes most of it. Whilst it is noticeable that, in recent weeks, britfree in particular, is bleating about censorship, the moderator is not being vigilant enough.
Re: Who says the document is genuine? - [info]philipshahak - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 11:04 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Who says the document is genuine? - [info]malkatraz - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 04:03 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Who says the document is genuine? - [info]ganef - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 05:42 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Who says the document is genuine? - [info]goatbucket - Friday, 19 June 2009 at 12:44 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Who says the document is genuine? - [info]copycat7 - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 09:06 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Who says the document is genuine? - [info]marlinspike2009 - Friday, 19 June 2009 at 03:36 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Who says the document is genuine? - [info]fin_d_empire - Tuesday, 23 June 2009 at 11:25 pm (UTC) Expand
Like the Zinoviev letter?
[info]rhinocircus wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 06:22 am (UTC)
Is this not like the Zinoviev Letter, produced mysteriously by the "Daily Mail" in Britain, which brought down the first Labour Governmen--and proved to be a complete fabrication?
Mousavi and his elites do not want a recount--they want a coup.
Interesting to read the piece by "zened" above--uses many bloody epithets against Ahmadinejad, who justifiably criticises American interference--it's all so Zionistic--like their attitude towards Palestinians.

"Enjoy your assassination Ahmadinejad; it will come from one of your own closets bodyguards." --zened.

zened you really are a sick creature and ignorant with it.


Re: Like the Zinoviev letter?
[info]zened wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 10:36 am (UTC)
rhinocircus

Ahmadinejad calls for the murder of entire peoples (countries) and the dominance of Islam over polytheistic religions like Hinduism.

I would gladly give my life to take his; as would any sane person. The world would be a much better place after he is removed. The protesters in Tehran agree with me and not you by the way, listen to what they are chanting.

Ahmadinejad is the sick and ignorant creature; you are just a fan-boy of his murderous death-cult.

I always like to get insulted by genocidalists on forums; it is the sign that they (you) have lost both their temper and the argument.
Re: Like the Zinoviev letter? - [info]philipshahak - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 11:08 am (UTC) Expand
Iran shows global need for fraud-proof election systems
[info]alexweir1949 wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 06:41 am (UTC)
Iran shows global need for fraud-proof election systems

There exist such fraud-proof voting systems, but the West and China are terribly afraid of such systems, since they would eliminate pro-western dictators as well as anti-western dictators. Of the many many dictators globally (including the anti-western Ahmadinejad), 95% are pro-western dictators.

The west has resorted even to political assassination to keep such voting systems from seeing the light of day. But eventually justice, freedom, democracy and development will win out. Maybe Obama will have a hand in this, if he can cast off the very strong influence of the CIA, MI6, and Deuxieme Bureau.

Mr Alex Weir, Harare and Gaborone
Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and the air crash. Where would you like to be? Just
[info]famulla wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 06:54 am (UTC)
Re: The gun has been fired...Too far. I see the smoke but only smoke. Let us have some dead. We have plenty on the heavy earth.
dissembly wrote:
I like your face and the name. I also like the poetry you have stuck about the Allah is great. I like the hairstyle that is half and the face that is covered half with hijab. Let me assemble you. The write up is about Iran. I agree about all the point on Iraq, The biggest American Embassy is in Iraq. The huge contracts to re-build are given to Dick and the side kicks the USA invaders. The roads etc construction are to be given to British and the British have already announced, ?Come we have the jobs for the UK folks?. That is cruelty. I know and you know but they do not care. Incidentally, you are a great writer. However, do you fire the gun in UK? Go to Iraq oooppp Iran and fire there
Letter
justagreenie wrote: A THOUGHT FOR TODAY:
Society is composed of two great classes: those who have more dinners than appetite, and those who have more appetite than dinners. -Sebastien-Roch-Nicolas de Chamfort, writer (1741-1794)
Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan and the air crash. Where would you like to be? Just questions as lot have forgotten the art of thinking constructive and think of the fate. Is there Godly power for all of these? The Iran now fails to reconcile to the Mullahs when one day the Iran population turned out in huge numbers to welcome the new regime. Are they fed up? The victims of the Air France crash had injuries which strongly suggest the plane broke up in the air, according to experts. We have not found the truth yet. There is no terrorism, no Osama, no fire, no autopilot, just blown plane and human fragments. Why this no one is knows and we are still looking for clues.
Post-mortem examinations on some of the 50 bodies found so far revealed fractures in the legs, hips and arms, a spokesman for the Brazilian medical examiners said. ALL DIE ONE DAY ANYWAY;
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla

DTP AT WORK ???
[info]famulla wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 07:17 am (UTC)
Tehran accused Washington of "intolerable" meddling in its internal affairs, the first time it has blamed the US for playing a role in the post-election turmoil. Barack Obama took pains to note there was little difference between Ahmadinejad and Mousavi. "Either way we are going to be dealing with an Iranian regime that has historically been hostile to the United States," he said. Britain's ambassador was berated for the recent comments of Gordon Brown and David Miliband, as well as the BBC's news coverage of the crisis. France, Germany and Italy were also given a talking to. WHAT IS THE PLOT????NOW.
[info]yurism wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 07:21 am (UTC)
This letter is such an obvious fake that for me it only has a reverse effect. It's becoming obvious that there are some cold-blooded puppeteers prepared to use any forgery and provocation to fuel further unrest and destabilisation in Iran.
[info]lbru wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 07:30 am (UTC)
This is irresponsible journalism. This article should be edited or removed.
why?
[info]allbudlike wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 07:39 am (UTC)
UK should be open their policy toward Iran.
for Democracy? I believe Iran is a democratic country if the definition of democracy is By the people, Of the people, for the people. the ordinary people can freely criticize the Iranian President as some Iranian girl said on BBC news "President is worse than Hitler". If Iran is not democratic country, how dare such a girl can despise President.

oil, yes, that is why UK media has hyped in Iran turmoil-resque..
Iraq was for America, Iran will be for UK. British Petroleum is likely to dream a golden time in the middle of 1900s until they was expelled from Iran.

Iranian, Please Unite!! Unite!!

division will lead Iran to the second Iraq.


Does not compute
[info]corporeal4now wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 08:57 am (UTC)

If Ahmadinejad is allocating oil revenues to the working class and there was an 80% turn out at the polls, then Iran must be a very, very rich country if Ahmadinejad only gets 5.6M votes against 31M for the other two candidates.

In reality, I would think that the majority are working class. The voting figures presented in the letter dont make sense - by a long way.
Re: Does not compute
[info]fin_d_empire wrote:
Friday, 19 June 2009 at 08:54 am (UTC)
The majority are rural poor. You need industry to have a working class; Iran wastes its oil money on nukes and terrorists rather than invest it in industry. That's why it has runaway unemployment and inflation. It even has to import gasoline because it doesn't have the capacity to refine its own.

Your average Iranian is an Allah-fearing, praying, self-flagellating, Ayatollah-revering peasant. Your average Mousavi fan is an Armani- or Versace-wearing Westernized yuppie who never set foot in a mosque.

Today Khameney called a mass prayer meet at Tehran U. and summoned Mousavi either to attend or be "cast out," which tells you once again that those whom Iranians vote for and those who call the shots are entirely different people. Anyway, Mousavi humbly attended the prayers, surrounded by the hoi polloi who all voted for Nejad, and who thus also symbolically occupied the HQ of Mousavi's "colored revolution." Khameney's Tehran University prayer meet where Mousavi was summoned to bow in front of the Supreme Leader sent one unmistakable message from the all-powerful patriarch to the unruly offspring: Shut this party down and tell your friends to go home or you're grounded.
Missing person
[info]elzote wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 09:32 am (UTC)


(via Global Voices Online) lran: Tohidloo, reformist blogger arrested http://tinyurl.com/m2zeg2
electoral fraud here
[info]ekhine wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 10:01 am (UTC)
An electoral fraud has happened in Europe, too. Now, in June, in European elections, thousands votes, over 200,000, have disappeared in Spain. All those "disappeared" votes were for Iniciativa Internacionalista, a leftist party. Electoral fraud is a scandal in Iran but not in Europe?
Europe is living a celebration
[info]ekhine wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 10:04 am (UTC)
An electoral fraud has happened in Europe, too. Now, in June, in European elections, thousands votes, over 200,000, have disappeared in Spain. All those "disappeared" votes were for Iniciativa Internacionalista, a leftist party. Electoral fraud is a scandal in Iran but not in Europe?
Re: Europe is living a celebration
[info]shalah2 wrote:
Friday, 19 June 2009 at 04:28 pm (UTC)
Who said electoral fraud is not a scandal in Europe? What sort of an argument is that? What is your point? Think again.
Fisk's rumormongering is going bananas
[info]fin_d_empire wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 10:15 am (UTC)
First he told us that Mousavi was "under house arrest" and that the opposition was "muzzled." The next day, the "muzzled" opposition was out on the streets in unseen numbers with Mousavi at its head.

Then he told us seven "students" had been "massacred" in their campus. It turned out that seven of Mousavi's paramilitary thugs had tried to storm a military post and got themselves shot doing it.

Now somebody conjured a "victory letter" and Fisk tells us that Ahmadinejad really only got 5 million votes! So the huge mass of rural poor who thronged to see Ahmadinejad's speeches and whom Moussavi didn't even bother to campaign for didn't vote for the "man of the people" but rather for the Tehran apparatchik with the university degree and the wife of loose morals. Yep, blindingly obvious, makes total sense. The poor got tons of populist government spending, flocked to Ahmadinejad's giant election rallies but changed their minds at the last moment in the voting booth and bit the hand that fed them. If Fisk really believes that, the drinking has softened his brain beyond repair.

Fisk's rooting for Mousavi is so stupid it makes me wonder if the journalist I used to admire hasn't been the victim of body-snatchers. Doesn't he know that Mousavi and Ahmadinejad are sockpuppets of Mullahs jockeying for the only position that counts, that of Supreme Leader? Elections are nothing but a sham, the president is a figurehead and the parliament is a hen coop. Real power wears a turban and has obtained that power by scheming and conspiring, not democratic elections. The elections are nothing but the visible aspect of that scheming and conspiring.

So the Mullah backing Mousavi may very well have sent him an official letter telling him he'd won. The guy - whoever he is - probably controls some government offices already, since he thinks he's got a chance to shoot for the top. OTOH the damn thing may have just been photoshopped. The feeble-minded bad imitation of Robert Fisk who wrote this very un-journalistic story is being played by the mullahs like a complete fool.
Re: Fisk's rumormongering is going bananas
[info]malkatraz wrote:
Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 04:07 pm (UTC)
Fin de Empire, I fear it may be you who is going bananas, Chiquita...
Re: Fisk's rumormongering is going bananas - [info]corporeal4now - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 06:47 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk's rumormongering is going bananas - [info]achilles0200 - Thursday, 18 June 2009 at 08:20 pm (UTC) Expand
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