Robert Fisk: So, I asked the UN secretary general, isn't it time for a war crimes tribunal?
Mr Ban said it would not be up to him to launch a war crimes tribunal. It was pathetic
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Independent Minds
It's a wrap, a doddle, an Israeli ceasefire just in time for Barack Obama to have a squeaky-clean inauguration with all the world looking at the streets of Washington rather than the rubble of Gaza. Condi and Ms Livni thought their new arms-monitoring agreement – reached without a single Arab being involved – would work. Ban Ki-moon welcomed the unilateral truce. The great and the good gathered for a Sharm el-Sheikh summit. Only Hamas itself was not consulted. Which led, of course, to a few wrinkles in the plan. First, before declaring its own ceasefire, Hamas fired off more rockets at Israel, proving that Israel's primary war aim – to stop the missiles – had failed. Then Cairo shrugged off the deal because no one was going to set up electronic surveillance equipment on Egyptian soil. And not one European leader travelling to the region suggested the survivors might be helped if Israel, the EU and the US ended the food and fuel siege of Gaza.
After killing hundreds of women and children, Israel was the good guy again, by declaring a unilateral ceasefire that Hamas was certain to break. But Obama will be smiling on Tuesday. Was not this the reason, after all, why Israel suddenly wanted a truce?
Egypt's objections may be theatre – the US spent £18m last year training Egyptian security men to stop arms smuggling into Gaza and since the US bails out Egypt's economy, ignores the corruption of its regime and goes on backing Hosni Mubarak, there's sure to be a "compromise" very soon.
And Hamas has had its claws cut. Israel's informers in Gaza handed over the locations of its homes and hideouts and the government of Gaza must be wondering if they can ever close down the spy rings. Hamas thought its militia was the Hizbollah – a serious error – and that the world would eventually come to its aid. The world (although not its pompous leaders) felt enormous pity for the Palestinians, but not for the cynical men of Hamas who staged a coup in Gaza in 2007 which killed 151 Palestinians. As usual, the European statesmen appeared hopelessly out of touch with what their own electorates thought.
And history was quite forgotten. The Hamas rockets were the result of the food and fuel siege; Israel broke Hamas's own truce on 4 and 17 November. Forgotten is the fact Hamas won the 2006 elections, although Israel has killed a clutch of the victors.
And there'll be little time for the peacemakers of Sharm el-Sheikh to reflect on the three UN schools targeted by the Israelis and the slaughter of the civilians inside. Poor old Ban Ki-moon. He tried to make his voice heard just before the ceasefire, saying Israel's troops had acted "outrageously" and should be "punished" for the third school killing. Some hope. At a Beirut press conference, he admitted he had failed to get a call through to Israel's Foreign Minister to complain.
It was pathetic. When I asked Mr Ban if he would consider a UN war crimes tribunal in Gaza, he said this would not be for him to "determine". But only a few journalists bothered to listen to him and his officials were quickly folding up the UN flag on the table. About time too. Bring back the League of Nations. All is forgiven.
What no one noticed yesterday – not the Arabs nor the Israelis nor the portentous men from Europe – was that the Sharm el-Sheikh meeting last night was opening on the 90th anniversary – to the day – of the opening of the 1919 Paris peace conference which created the modern Middle East. One of its main topics was "the borders of Palestine". There followed the Versailles Treaty. And we know what happened then. The rest really is history. Bring on the ghosts.
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http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/wo
Since her illegal creation by the Western nations, Israel has violated all kinds of laws. In addition, she has rejected umpteen UN sanctions against her. Of course, the guilty Europeans and the US prevent the impemention of UN sanctions against Israel.
Regarding Hosni Mubarak, Ban Ki-moon, King Abdullah, Saudis, they are all puppets of the West especially the US. They dare not go against the US and Britain.
Therefore, because of the lawlessness of Israel and the West, and the blatant atrocities against innocent civilians, they hate us and it is not because of our values or democracy.
Finally, if Ban Ki-moon and Barack Obama want the world to respect them, they should ask for war crimes tribunal, otherwise, the revenage killings will go on.
1. The building of a security wall along the length of the West Bank and hundreds of check points as a result of those who so bravely martyred themselves on the streets of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.
2. The great victory in the deaths of 13 Jews and minor property damage from our brave rocket attacks on the Zionists at a cost of the lives of some 1300 Palestinians and the utter destruction of vast swathes of Gaza.
You also supported our heroic colleagues of Hezbollah when their courageous attack on a few Zionist soldiers provoked a war that destroyed vast areas of south Lebanon and robbed many mothers of their children and killed so few of our brave resistance fighters.
It was the similar support of your forefathers that rejected the UN's heinous decision to establish the Zionist state and encouraged our fathers to invade the nascent Zionist entity and resulted in it being almost twice the size of that given to the Jews by the UN.
It was your forefathers encouragement that enabled our hero Gamal Abdul Nasser to give the Zionist entity the excuse for the 1967 war which led to even more occupation of our lands.
Likewise, the invasion by our heroic Syrian and Egyptian brothers in 1973 that led to even more Arab land being occupied by the zionists.
It was the courageous marches by Stop The War Coalition that encouraged our heroic Saddam Hussein to stand up to the UN and the arch Satan US and refuse weapons inspections so that Iraq was invaded to prove that there were no WMD.
Hamas thank you as our true friends.
Cheney made a secret trip to Saudi Arabia to propose this. Divert attention from the Israel/Palestinian problem to pitting Israel and several other countries against Iran. The neocons just refuse to give up.
Watch UK MP SIR Gerald Kaufman exposes Israel's Crimes (google qMGuYjt6CP8)
Watch US Professor Norman Finkelstein exposes Israel's Crimes (google bm5OvSeiAHc)
Please contact your Senator and/or Representative. Peace!
The worst part, is that certain governments in Europe, America and the Middle East, still go through the tired old charade of 'peace initiatives', 'meetings', 'discussions' and the 'stepping up of pressures'.
Sarkozy spoke yesterday in Jerusalem of 'rebuilding' Gaza and sending aid, we've heard it all before, and seen beautifully in Iraq and Afghanistan. God forbid anyone be the recipient of 'Western' aid...
What hypocrisy.
(P.S: Mr. Fisk, your very insightful article about who killed Mr. Lebanon has an error in it. Samir Shehadeh was targetted with a car bomb but was not killed; his driver was killed. Perhaps you meant Cpt Eid?)
This should not surprise anyone - remember that when the UN was being formed every country, but one, agreed to forego any veto power. That country was the USA which promised to walk out of the talks.
Fisk is the only reason that I actually read this paper which looks and sounds more like the Spectator
Yet another angle upon who's worse than who...a pointless exercise, but by the gods will it mean endless amounts of media column inches in twaddle!
Bad people kill bad people...and those in the way. It's what we humans are good at.
It would not be much of a stretch to think that Mr. Obama also approved, subject to it ending before his takeover. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
Was Slobodan Milosevic not indicted for the limited (as compared with Israel's Army) attrocities of the Serbian army in Kosovo? We should remember that Mr. Milosevic and the Serbian leadership never attempted (nor boasted) to 'kill off' the Albanian civilian population under the guise of fighting the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA). It is also important to know that the Serbian Army never directed its fire against United Nations installations, as Israel did, at any stage of the conflict.
Yet in spite of all these overwhelming evidence, here we are talking whether Israel should be indicted for war crimes. What crimes has Israel committed if killing of women, children, babies, bombing of mosques, hospitals, schools, UN installations etc. do not aount to war crimes?
Do you remember it happening when Assad's dad when in power killed between 10,000 and 30,000 people in Hama in 1982?
Or King Hussein in "black September" killing thousands of Palestinians?
I must not be updated...
Gordon Brown et al should know - their compliance with Israel & the slaughter enrages many; even more so the blatant & willing ignorance of the people (not dissimilar to Blair). This will surely come back and bite on the derrier.
Not only have the EU aided Israel again - but they have marginalised even more citizens in their own country.
Israel should not tolerate being bombarded by rocket (I didn't forget the 's') But any decent and humane peoples would recognize the likelihood of eliminating the firers is slim to none, and the likelihood of killing innocents is extreme. But of course, the 1000 and more civilians who have died are not worth the lives of those 10 odd Israeli civilians who have been killed.
There are few if any other nations in the world that could even begin to get away with what Israel is doing. On a global political level we need to leave the past where it belongs and move on, treat Israel for what it is now, not how its people suffered over 60 years ago.
And this is what vexes me the most. Israel is not some vulnerable child that needs to be protected and sheltered. It is a violent and aggressive being, terrified and blinded by the idea of being persecuted again, so much so that it still see's itself as the victim despite now being the persecutor.
Grow a backbone, other political powers of this world. The militant elements of hamas are no saints, but the people of Palestine deserve protection and safety. For once, do not allow justice and good faith to be marred by political concerns.
An almost naive dream, I know. Israel will continue to get away with what is essentially criminal activity, and no-one will do anything. With our eyes closed and shouting over the din of artillery and screams, we will keep preaching peace, toleration, respect, equality and justice...I would laugh if it wasn't so sickeningly true.
Nothing here calls for a holocaust reference even remotely, it doesn't concern history. Either Israel has a right to defend itself or not. If not, the world is welcome to try using other methods to stop terrorism at their expense.
Israel was rebuilt to put an end to Jews being persecuted around the world, to allow Jews to have a homeland once again. This was accepted by the international community several times and yet when others who refuse to accept this attack Israel, the world not only refuses to help, but tries to stop Israel from helping itself.
You suggesting that merely because the Arabs didn't kill enough Israelis, Israel should not attack is sickening.
I would also like to point out that you refer to "Israel" but you refer to "militant elements of hamas" and "people of Palestine". Why separate those 2 while generalizing Israelis?
Hamas was elected into office by these people, it retained it by force and "vox populi". If Israelis are fair game, as you think, based on decisions made by the Israeli government, why are the people of Gaza immuned?
Alas, i think my argument falls on deaf ears. You are opposed to Israeli actions regardless of cause, facts, history or any other factor. You label it "criminal" and make no reference to decades of terrorism aimed at civilians.
As an Israeli, if i have to choose between buses blowing up in my country, or weapons caches in schools and mosques blowing up in Gaza, i choose the latter. This doesn't make me any less human or humane, it simply puts me in a situation you don't and can't possible understand.
If being forced to choose between the lives of my people and the lives of those who are trying to kill me, the decision is easy. If people die by proxy, it's extremely unfortunate and makes my decision all that more difficult, but as a wise man once said, "I'd rather be an old bigot than a handsome young corpse". And i'm not that handsome to begin with.
and lets not talk of course about the over 100,000 civilians we helped killed in Iraq...
Iran's now paying Hamas? I thought it was Saddam Hussein. Oh, right, thats not gonna work anymore. Iran's the new enemy that Israel wants to destroy. Makes it easier to steal the part of Lebanon where the Litani River is if the US would help Israel nuke Iran. So what if millions of others woould die in the process. So what if US soldiers in Iraq are targeted after all, the US are,Israel's best friend. Not to mention sending the world's economy into a state of rigor. Yeah, working hard on dragging the world into this escapade for years now.
Iran and Hezbollah are not supplying rockets to Gaza. Israeli propagnda (more lies from pathological liars.) They are homemade pieces of shit. .
Your right to bring up history, it reminds one of Arnold Toynbee's observation that the west was making a blameless people pay a debt they didn't owe.
What interests me is the sudden ceasefire, three days before Obama takes office. What are they hoping to achieve? Do they suspects Obama will not give them the thumbs up to wage all out war on Palestine, so they've dropped hundreds of bombs so it takes years for the Palestinians to rebuild. I am hoping change will come, and Israel will be held to account, but forgive me if i don't hold my breath.
How far is the US in bed with Isreael? This cynical ceasefire to allow Obama's inayugeration to take centre stage speaks volumes. Isael don't want to upset US sensibilities but to hell with those of the rest of the world. It's clear that the only way things can change is if the US blind support for Israel changes. Unlikely to say the least.
How far have the souls of our elected leaders been sold and thier morals corrupted? The lack of pressure of Israel to open up Gaza's borders, the lack of proposed humanitarion aid, the voluable lack of condemnation of the Israels own breaking of the truce agreement which sparked the current slaughter of mainly civilians, the total lack of anything resembling even the smallest rebuke to the completely unacceptable actions of Israel says so so much at just what a grubby gentlemans club the western leaders clique have become. No honour amongst thieves, and certainly no honour for the peoples these leader represent as they twist the best of our values to support this despicable Israeli state.
Just how impotent is the UN? Poor Mr Ban is reduced to powerless outrage at the discraceful attacks on UN centers and the humble admission that as a body it has no power to instigate a war crime tribunal. It shows just how under the US thumb the organisation has become.
SAD, SAD, SAD.
I have signed every appropriate petition I could find.
I warned and now have informed all my political representatives that I will no longer vote for them because of their gutless stance on this massacre in Gaza.
I am boycotting all Israeli goods and companies as well as those from countries that support them like the US.
I am publicising my views in media and am discussing the situation with and informing all I meet.
What I would like to do is send one protest email ( with appropriate photo attached ) for every child killed in this latest Gaza attrocity to every "mute" politician and pro-zionist institution in my Country.
Each email will be a demand a War Crimes Trial of the Israelis responsible.
I am relatively powerless but very angry and I won't forget. I hope there are lots out there like me both in Australia and in every other country of the world.
The more noise we make the more notice they will be forced to take!
Good idea, you can start by throwing away your Intel run pc/laptop as those microchips are Israeli.
Windows xp and vista are also the product of microsoft Israel as is their respective office software.
Of course then you wouldn't be able to pawn off you nonsense, so you can just avoid using instant messenger software as that is an Israeli technology and be sure to delete your virus protection software as well. Guess why?
You should also stop using google as their algorithm is as Israeli as I.
Camera phone microchips are also Israeli so best look for an oldie...
You can also boycott any fruit and vegetables grown on farms using water saving irrigation as that is an Israeli technology (being an Aussie i'm not sure you can find alternatives).
Solar panels are also out for you.
If your doctor asks you to swallow a microcamera pill to look at your intestines, refuse as it is Israeli. I'm sure you wouldn't mind him going in the other end.
Also if you have a baby, don't use any product designed to alert you in case of SIDS. What's a baby's life when it comes to your precious boycott?
You can tell your wife/gf to ask her OBGyn to only use x-rays to detect breast cancer as the non-radiating instruments are Israeli.
If you have a heart problem, make sure you check if the treatment or devices used in your cure is not Israeli as many are.
Speaking of wives or girlfriends, tell them you can't buy diamonds for them. You see Israel was the first country to accept the Kimberley process regarding blood diamonds. And we all know how many Israelis are in the diamond business.
So you're very angry and you won't forget? Good, i see Jesus made an impact on your life.
What makes you so angry? The deaths of all those people? Sad, i know. Have you made similar demands of Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, China, the US, the UK, OZ and most South American countries for killing scores of people?
Why not solve problems at home and help your Abbo population? Your country certainly killed many of those (how many were left in Tazzy?).
If domestic battles are beneath you, what about NZ and the Maoris?
Of course there is no analogy in the world to the Israeli situation. Whereas most land disputes are based around a native population and invaders/conquerers/British fighting each other, Israel is the only place where the so called aggressors are returning to their land and not just showing up to take it. It is also the only place where the so called natives have only been around there for less than a century.
Have a good day, drink your toohey's and stay out of the sun.
The truth therefore will be buried as usual and the Israelis will always be given the benefit of the doubt by Western media and politicians. They are given credit for announcing a ceasefire and it is instantly forgotten that they have killed about 1100 people, many women and children. Moreover, It has NEVER been reported that Hamas rockets were a consequence of Gazans being starved of food and fuel and that Hamas are democratically elected.
On Israel's part the killing of 1100 mainly innocent people is the most vile piece of electioneering that can be imagined, and yet they are instantly forgiven.
Here is a website listing every known Friend of Israel who is corrupting our parliament and would love to hear from more if they are known about...
http://www.redress.cc/global/redress200
Moving swiftly on though, there are stories abound in the modern government if you dig deep enough, I am minded of the Standards expose of Margaret Hodge, nee Oppenheimer, born in Cairo to Hans and his wife, father was one of the biggest steel industrialists in Germany, strangely though as a Jewish company his assets were never nationalised by Hitler and it was common knowledge that towards the end of the war, ALL heavy industry had labour camps attached to expidate the war effort... very nice to know that a High jew had industry with his chosen brothers interned and worked slavishly whilst he mooned around Europe and the Middle East eh?
It was British Oppenheimers that were exposed for selling diamonds and gold through their south African operation to Hitler included in this was a MP and some other nobility.
That is more history to example the stranglehold Churchill warned about, more recently if someone remembers during Major's tenure, a small story surfaced about one of the Rothschilds being caught red-handed in some massive drugs deal, in what would of resulted in life for any humble person other than these, the offending man got community service and a fine... the buzz was that the Baron threatened John "Joe 90" Major with economic ruin if something wasn't done.
It is no mistake that most of the hidden and high echelons of the Freemasons are stuffed full of these people, they have wormed their way into the highest aspects of British society, like the US they are controlling what they want to happen and on this matter it means that Brown and others in the three parties never ever dare criticise or stand up to a small country about the size of Wales for fear of committing political suicide.
Obama got elected simply because AIPAC approved him, Olmert blurted out recently on how he controlled Bush in getting Rice to abstain from a UN vote, Obama's right hand man Emmanuel is a rabid pro-Israeli, the son of a convicted terrorist so the Palestinians had better not hope for help from the US anytime soon...
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that, I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."
- Ariel Sharon (Prime Minister of israel) Israeli Hebrew radio, Col Yisrael, 3 october 2001.
Maybe Mr. Fisk can explain to us why Transjordan and Palestine where divided into three countries. Two for Palestinians and one for Jews? Yes, Jordan is over 70% Palestinian.
What is also significant is that not long before the Versailles Treaty (50 years), there was no group of people who called themselves Palestinian. Most of the Palestinians, as known today, migrated to geographical area of Israel, from neighboring countries from the mid 18th century.
Read a book for a change, how about Robert Fisk's excellent production ?
The orchestration of a cease fire window, to pave the way for Americas' new president only serves to magnify how unnecessary was the use of force. Even Pope Benedict speaks out against the slaughter and has put a proposed visit to the Holy Land on ice.
Whether or not these crimes are brought before a UN tribunal, the damage Israel has brought upon itself and now condemned worldwide, will surely serve to perpetuate anti-Semitism across the globe.
You see, if Israel wanted to just kill people in Gaza at random there would be at least 10 times as many dead, surely you can believe that based on the amount of explosives fired upon them over the past 3 weeks.
Why not blame Hamas for choosing to base their para-military operations within civilian population centres?
You aren't commenting on the circumstances which led to the Israeli attacks, you are just blaming Israeli soldiers for not having the decency to allow terrorists to shoot at them from within civilian areas and not responding.
Surely Israeli soldiers displayed cowardice when risking their lives to instigate militants into battle instead of leveling Gaza using FAE bombs and MLRS. It is the Israelis who are cowards, hiding in tunnels and using civilians as shields.
Maybe you are wrong?