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Robert Fisk: Words that could heal wounds of centuries

President Obama reaches out to the Islamic world in a landmark speech

President Obama's speach reached out to the Islamic world

AFP/Getty

President Obama's speach reached out to the Islamic world

Preacher, historian, economist, moralist, schoolteacher, critic, warrior, imam, emperor. Sometimes you even forgot Barack Obama was the President of the United States of America.

Will his lecture to a carefully chosen audience at Cairo University "re-imagine the world" and heal the wounds of centuries between Muslims and Christians? Will it resolve the Arab-Israeli tragedy after more than 60 years? If words could do the job, perhaps...

It was a clever speech we heard from Obama yesterday, as gentle and as ruthless as any audience could wish for – and we were all his audience. He praised Islam. He loved Islam. He admired Islam. He loved Christianity. And he admired America. Did we know that there were seven million Muslims in America, that there were mosques in every state of the Union, that Morocco was the first nation to recognise the United States and that our duty is to fight against stereotypes of Muslims just as Muslims must fight against stereotypes of America?

But much of the truth was there, albeit softened to avoid hurting feelings in Israel. To deny the facts of the Jewish Holocaust was "baseless, ignorant and hateful", he said, a remark obviously aimed at Iran. And Israel deserved security and "Palestinians must abandon violence..."

The United States demanded a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He told the Israelis there had to be a total end to their colonisation in the West Bank. "The United States does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements."

The Palestinians had suffered without a homeland. "The situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable," Obama said and the US would not turn its back on the "legitimate Palestinian aspiration for a state of their own". Israel had to take "concrete steps" to give the Palestinians progress in their daily lives as part of a road to peace. Israel needed to acknowledge Palestinian suffering and the Palestinian right to exist. Wow. Not for a generation has Israel had to take this kind of criticism from a US President. It sounded like the end of the Zionist dream. Did George Bush ever exist?

Alas, he did. Indeed, at times, the Obama address sounded like the Bush General Repair Company, visiting the Muslim world to sweep up mountains of broken chandeliers and shredded flesh. The President of the United States – and this was awesome – admitted his country's failures, its over-reaction to 9/11, its creation of Guantanamo which, Obama reminded us all again, he is closing down. Not bad, Obama...

We got to Iran. One state trying to acquire nuclear weapons would lead to a "dangerous path" for all of us, especially in the Middle East. We must prevent a nuclear arms race. But Iran as a nation must be treated with dignity. More extraordinarily, Obama reminded us that the US had connived to overthrow the democratically elected Mossadeq government of Iran in the Fifties. It was "hard to overcome decades of distrust".

There was more; democracy, women's rights, the economy, a few good quotes from the Koran ("Whoever kills an innocent, it is as if he has killed all mankind".) Governments must respect "all their people" and their minorities. He mentioned the Christian Copts of Egypt; even the Christian Maronites of Lebanon got a look in.

And when Obama said that some governments, "once in power, are ruthless in suppressing the rights of others", there was a roar of applause from the supposedly obedient audience. No wonder the Egyptian government wanted to select which bits of Obama's speech would be suitable for the Egyptian people. They were clearly very, very unhappy with the police-state regime of Hosni Mubarak. Indeed, Obama did not once mention Mubarak's name.

Over and again, one kept saying to oneself: Obama hasn't mentioned Iraq – and then he did ("a war of choice... our combat brigades will be leaving"). But he hasn't mentioned Afghanistan – and then he did ("we do not want to keep our troops in Afghanistan... we will gladly bring every one of our troops home"). When he started talking about the "coalition of 46 countries" in Afghanistan – a very dodgy statistic – he began to sound like his predecessor. And here, of course, we encountered an inevitable problem. As the Palestinian intellectual Marwan Bishara pointed out yesterday, it is easy to be "dazzled" by presidents. This was a dazzling performance. But if one searched the text, there were things missing.

There was no mention – during or after his kindly excoriation of Iran – of Israel's estimated 264 nuclear warheads. He admonished the Palestinians for their violence – for "shooting rockets at sleeping children or blowing up old women in a bus". But there was no mention of Israel's violence in Gaza, just of the "continuing humanitarian crisis in Gaza". Nor was there a mention of Israel's bombing of civilians in Lebanon, of its repeated invasions of Lebanon (17,500 dead in the 1982 invasion alone). Obama told Muslims not to live in the past, but cut the Israelis out of this. The Holocaust loomed out of his speech and he reminded us that he was going to the site of the Buchenwald concentration camp today.

For a man who is sending thousands more US troops into Afghanistan – a certain disaster-to-come in the eyes of Arabs and Westerners – there was something brazen about all this. When he talked about the debt that all Westerners owed to Islam – the "light of learning" in Andalusia, algebra, the magnetic compass, religious tolerance, it was like a cat being gently stroked before a visit to the vet. And the vet, of course, lectured the Muslims on the dangers of extremism, on "cycles of suspicion and discord" – even if America and Islam shared "common principles" which turned out to be "justice, progress and the dignity of all human beings".

There was one merciful omission: a speech of nearly 6,000 words did not include the lethal word "terror". "Terror" or "terrorism" have become punctuation marks for every Israeli government and became part of the obscene grammar of the Bush era.

An intelligent guy, then, Obama. Not exactly Gettysburg. Not exactly Churchill, but not bad. One could only remember Churchill's observations: "Words are easy and many, while great deeds are difficult and rare."

More from Robert Fisk

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Fisk on Obama
[info]milton79 wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 12:00 am (UTC)
A very mealy-mouthed response to one of the finest, and most principled orations most of us have heard from a U.S. president. Dissappoiting.
Re: Fisk on Obama
[info]ejh16 wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 01:43 am (UTC)
Obama's speech may have been a "most principled oration", but the President's pretty words are all but meaningless as long as his troops are scattered all over the Middle East and the rest of the world. http://theunpeople.blogspot.com/
Re: Fisk on Obama - [info]muslimegypt - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 07:48 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk on Obama - [info]zahradelaplata - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 12:59 pm (UTC) Expand
speech
[info]calidore115 wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 12:01 am (UTC)
yes, I agree with you and the BBC's reporting - this was just a nice speech but lacking in definite plans of action - fine words butter no parsnips
Re: speech
[info]lsoueif wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 05:10 pm (UTC)
That is absolutely untrue. There were over a thousand women in the audience. I do not know what you were watching if you could not see them. I am not saying that women have achieved equality in the Arab world or even in Egypt, I doubt they have achieved it in the US either but that is not to say that we are invisible or do not hold public office. For your knowledge, if you are interested in facts and not stereotypes, in Egyptian public universities 56% of the students are female and about 40% of the teaching staff are female. In the Faculty of Science at Cairo University where I am an assistant professor of mathematics about a third of the teaching staff are women, and that is a higher female male ratio than you will find in most science faculties in the US.
Re: speech - [info]lsoueif - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 05:22 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: speech - [info]mkassem - Sunday, 7 June 2009 at 02:03 am (UTC) Expand
Re: speech - [info]bobav - Saturday, 6 June 2009 at 12:03 pm (UTC) Expand
Words and Actions
[info]rodkaufman wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 12:02 am (UTC)
Fisk, how many women were in the audience to hear Obama's words? I'll save you the trouble of finding out since you didn't pick up on it in the first place. Except for a couple of female reporters and a few token representatives (if that's what they truly were), there was none. In other words, we've got, for the most part, equality for women in the US and elsewhere but not in the Muslim world. Let's have some reciprocity before the Muslim world expects apologies, policy changes, and so forth from us and the rest of the world.
Omissions? How about the proxy role Hamas plays for Iran in importing and exporting terrorism? Yes, terrorism because that's what it is. To deny it is either an error of omission or co-mission and a denial of reality.
"And yet, of course, lectured the Muslims on the dangers of extremism..." As long as action accompanies the words...
Re: Words and Actions
[info]diala_gk wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 05:53 am (UTC)
it's clear that u didn't have a complete picture of the audience at Cairo Uni. Loads of women were there: veiled - not veiled - copts

at one point, westerners should stop relying on stereotypes..the "muslim community" is not a homogeneous one with all that bla bla about oppression, extremism and stuff. Egypt is no Afghanistan.. the muslim "communities" are as diverse as the countries that behold them. u should visit and check for yourself. enough

this is one reason why Obama's speech was impressive for it included that long-awaited balanced/objective viewpoint of the other part of the world

P.S. millions of muslims are against hamas, hizbullah, iran's policies, and the likes. keep that in mind.

Re: Words and Actions - [info]freedommonger - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 06:50 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Words and Actions - [info]theelectrician - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 07:10 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Words and Actions - [info]muslimegypt - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 07:50 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Words and Actions - [info]chanch5 - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 01:10 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Words and Actions - [info]britfree - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 08:59 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Words and Actions - [info]manplant - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 04:10 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Words and Actions - [info]lsoueif - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 05:20 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]hicks1 wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 12:06 am (UTC)
Give him a chance Robert. You can't say he's not moving in the right direction!
We're sick & tired of his Oblahlah
[info]findempire wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 12:09 am (UTC)
We all know that the Chicago slickster Obama, well-funded by his crooked Wall Street cronies, has hired the best speechwriters, can read from a teleprompter without a wire up his ass, can crease his brow convincingly as if he were formulating those smooth sentences himself, and has honed his "African-American JFK" act to perfection.

We also know that even as he hypocritically greets Egyptians & Saudis with salaamaleikums and pretends to care about the Palestinians, the third war that he started against Muslims is raging in Pakistan, when the blood of the 147 innocents he bombed in Farah, Afghanistan, is barely dry:

Slaughter: Afghan villagers mark out freshly dug graves after burying some of those killed in a U.S. airstrike

And here is the destruction wrought by Obomber's stooge Zardari on his own people in Pakistan to earn his keep as the local enforcer of Obombers AfPak policy:

A Pakistani man is seen in the middle of the rubble of his house destroyed in an air strike in Sultanwas village, in Buner district, Pakistan, on Wednesday, May 27, 2009. Pakistan's army destroyed much of this village when it drove the Taliban back, reducing houses, mosques and shops to mounds of rubble where dusty children's shoes, shattered television sets and perfume bottles now lie. (AP Photo/Emilio Morenatti)

An "Osama tape" was released just before Obomber's speech by the London Bureau Chief of Al Jazeera Yousri Fouda, who receives these "Al Qaeda" tapes from IntelCenter, a Pentagon contractor staffed by "former" US and Israeli intelligence agents. In the tape "Osama" says that Obomber has sown the seeds of hatred in the 3.5 million refugees created by his new proxy war on Muslims in the Swat valley. The reason why this perfectly correct statement is on the Pentagon psyops tape is clear: Since it's Osama who's saying it, it can't be true.

Well I beg to differ. The 3.5 million Pakistanis, driven out of their homes and into total misery so that the terror-sponsoring Islamic Republic of Pakistan can wage war on Pashtun Jihadis on Obomber's orders, speak 3.5 million times louder to Muslims than Obomber's slick speechifying ever can.
Re: We're sick & tired of his Oblahlah
[info]coraldelmar10 wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 01:02 am (UTC)
wow.... no news of this in China....

i love obama, i'd like to think he's taking his steps in the right direction.... but DAMN the guy is stuck between a rock and a hard place... I feel for the Pakistanis.

anyways, thanks for informing me. as much as the news sucks, thanks for opening my eyes.
Re: We're sick & tired of his Oblahlah - [info]bq45 - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 01:25 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: We're sick & tired of his Oblahlah - [info]kuma2000 - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 06:30 pm (UTC) Expand
Speech
[info]yambas wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 12:53 am (UTC)
Enough of the moaning.Just recently we had a US president that was hated throughout the world.He has enough enemies at home from the Zionists to the gun lobbies.He needs time.
Re: Speech
[info]phillygal wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 02:23 am (UTC)
yambas,
80% of American Jews voted for Obama. So since when are the 'Zionists' his 'enemies?' the most non-violent group in the USA are American Jews and yet you lump them with the gun lobbyists? Get an education.
Re: Speech - [info]yambas - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 03:19 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Speech - [info]britfree - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 09:02 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Speech - [info]jep60 - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 06:56 pm (UTC) Expand
Beauty and Politics
[info]gandalf_thegray wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 01:28 am (UTC)
Fisk is all right. Or, at least we are not supposed to hear Obama's speech as a kind of poetry, where some form of amazement is really important. And even poets have their critics. To praise - and only praise - Obama is like hearing him just for fun, what is a bad state of mind in politics.
Fisk Article
[info]simonkn wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 01:39 am (UTC)
"An intelligent guy, then, Obama. Not exactly Gettysburg. Not exactly Churchill, but not bad." You outrageously pompous, condescending, patronising plonker.
Exceptional insight
[info]philwhitfield wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 02:09 am (UTC)
What Fisk brings to the discussion is an exceptional critique of President Obama's speech. Three weeks ago in Cairo Fisk was skeptical that Obama would offer much. Now Fisk's independent, open mind accepts that Obama has much to offer. In his critique Bob carefully picks through the nuances and comes to a conclusion that, I imagine, surprised him: there is the possibility of change and a new beginning. Fisk's preparedness to accept that is a measure of his contribution to the discussion. He demolishes the bigots with his craft. Thank you, Robert.
Re: Exceptional insight
[info]freedommonger wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 06:27 am (UTC)
he gives the bigots a way to STOP without admitting their part in constantly inciting and fuelling the suffering with their stories of victimhood.

Thats why you love him. First he names the witch, then burns them for you day after day (the fun bit for you), then when its clear it wasnt a witch at all he finds a way for you to pretend it wasnt you burning them all along so its all been OK.

Well done Mr Fisk. A public service indeed
Re: Exceptional insight - [info]britfree - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 09:09 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Exceptional insight - [info]freedommonger - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 09:33 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Exceptional insight - [info]chanch5 - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 01:23 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Exceptional insight - [info]freedommonger - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 02:00 pm (UTC) Expand
Words & Actions
[info]b_ehan wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 02:50 am (UTC)
While America kills with impunity throughout the Muslim world, while it follows a policy of Imperialism and appropriation, while its' Government policy and media denigrate a noble people who have thousands of years of civilisation. While Israel brutalises the Palestinian people with aid from America and Britain and unmanned drones murder randomly in the skies of Afghanistan "peace" is only a word - a platitude. While it is admittedly refreshing to hear an American president speak with more than a series of grunts and smirks I will reserve my optimism until I see actions.
Re: Words & Actions
[info]exec_ceo wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 01:42 pm (UTC)
Israel does not "brutalize" the Palestinians.

The Palestinians in the West bank live better lives than most of the arab muslims in arab muslim countries

As for gaza, the people who run gaza are insane. They fire thousands of rockets into israel, screaming "death to Israel," and then wonder why after 3 years of doing that, Israel finally laid the smack down on them

Re: Words & Actions - [info]jimmybeez - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 03:28 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Words & Actions - [info]exec_ceo - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 03:47 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Words & Actions - [info]goatbucket - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 03:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Words & Actions - [info]b_ehan - Thursday, 11 June 2009 at 02:00 am (UTC) Expand
I have great respect for Robert Fisk
[info]dravazed wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 02:56 am (UTC)
This is a true journalist, probably one of the few in a dying breed--someone who has always put truth ahead of all other considerations. That he largely--but not uncritically--views Obama's speech in a positive way, impresses me. I feel far more dismissive of these words from the current ruler of the American Empire...but the fact that Mr. Fisk--nobody's fool in the world of realpolitik--mostly credits this as a worthy speech, qualifies my own, rather acid dismissal of the entire thing.
CONCRETE STEPS
[info]robz53 wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 03:14 am (UTC)
I know of a bloody big concrete step Israel can take-step back behind that concrete,land stealing apartheid wall to the recognised border.I intend to subject myself to the entire speech,but reports I have read still indicate a grievous omission:Palestinians must "renounce violence" but not a word about the serial[and unending]Israeli violence to call the situation in Gaza a "humanitarian crisis",as if the bombed,homeless,deliberately starved people had suffered a tsunami or something is sad.Not to acknowledge that the war on Iraq is illegal and based on a complete falsehood is just as sad.
Re: CONCRETE STEPS
[info]ickleh wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 09:49 am (UTC)
am i alone in thinking, that what israel is doing to the palastinians in the gaza strip, is not unlike what the nazi's did, to the jew's in

the walsaw ghetto in ww2. wall them in, starve them, decides who can enter or leave. no wonder that they have to tunnel and

smuggle to survive. and like the jews then, they feel the need to fight back against, discrimination, occupation and repression.

i think israel should have a good look at the history books, didn't they learn something, didn't we all? you can't oppress

a whole people or nation without consquences. for which ever 'god's' sake, sort it out!!! or am i being naive?
Re: CONCRETE STEPS - [info]chanch5 - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 01:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: CONCRETE STEPS - [info]daddymelt - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 02:16 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: CONCRETE STEPS - [info]exec_ceo - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 03:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: CONCRETE STEPS - [info]goatbucket - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 04:00 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: CONCRETE STEPS - [info]dnmurphy - Saturday, 6 June 2009 at 09:57 pm (UTC) Expand
Grudging, Mr. Fisk...
[info]daviejam wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 03:23 am (UTC)

...there's perhaps a slice of you that never wanted to hear that kind of address from an American President. You should be urging him to do more, not churlishly carping. Some people have real power and can bring real change whereas all you'll ever have is an increasingly embittered pen.

One of the bravest oratorical performances from a politician I've been privileged to watch in my life.
Obama Speech
[info]jfk1 wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 04:19 am (UTC)
This was a historic speech in every sense, no western leaders in the past 350 years of western domination has made such a speech. It will take historians many generation to review this speech. Imagine for a moment, Queen Isabella making such speech instead of the inquisition, or imagine Pope Innocent III making such speech!, where would we be today?. Fast forward to the 20th Century, Would a Winston Churchill ever make such speech instead of being the most racist of them all against the Arab and Muslim worldwide!!. Or would an FDR or Truman or Gorbachev for that matter.
Only the first learned and open minded African American president with roots in Africa and Islam could make such speech. Israel and its supporter should take notice, this is their best chance to be around in 50 years. He spoke with knowledge and truth, two rare combination for a leader.
In my view and hopes, we could see the region in 10 years:
1. A Palestine state
2. Full relationship throughout the middle east.
Nuclear free Zone ( Israel, Iran and other with no nuke! wow)
3. a fully functioning democracy in Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Syria and some gulf state.
4. Or God help us a Taliban like state from Afghanistan to Morocco!!
Pick your side world!!
JFK1
Re: Obama Speech
[info]smoothop8388 wrote:
Saturday, 6 June 2009 at 01:41 pm (UTC)
I would love to believe what you're saying is true; but its entirely false. Yes, Obama's speech was probably one of the best speeches a western leader ever gave; it was powerful, articulate, and most importantly intelligent; however, it was full of traps.
1- The constant exploitation of the 9/11 attacks; the usual pretext for the war on terror, which he used to justify what's going on in Afghanistan and Pakistan; although it is obvious that the entire official account of 9/11 is a joke!
http://www.voltairenet.org/article160100.html


2- He mentioned the victims of 9/11, and the Israelis, while not a word about the 1400 in Gaza, and 1100 in Lebanon; or the millions of Iraqis, n' Afghans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Yx9NRX37SM

3- He used the holocaust as a justification for the formation of the Jewish state and the expulsion of Palestinians.

4- He said he's against the "continued" settlement building in Palestine; meaning that the "already" built settlements are fine.

5- He mentioned the danger of nuclear Iran, without a even a word about the 200 Israeli nuclear heads.

6- He talked about the Palestenians who were "dislocated"; like a natural disaster caused it, n' not the establishment of the Jewish state; without a mention of the millions of Palestenian refugees, or the 67 borders, which are supported by UN resolutions.

7- He mentioned that the Arabs need to do more than the Arab peace initiative which wasn't apparently enough; and he demands full acknowledgment of Israel and having normal ties with them before the a solution is reached to break the ice ?so to speak; but when Israel are we talking about (the 48 Israel, the 50 Isreal, the 67 Israel, or the 2009 Israel)! How can you recognize a state that has no borders? N' how can you recognize a state if didn't acknowledge your basic rights to the land that was stolen from you?

Let's not be naïve, everybody should wake up from this dream called "change"; it's only a change in tactics and rhetoric. If you pass the confidence, the articulation and beautiful words, the main lines of the American policy are still the same. Obama is ruler in Washington; and he's not even his own master; he's merely a salesman, who, in this was selling the American Policy to the middle east; like he was selling his policy to the American people; the only difference is that Bush imposed it with idiocy. There are much higher authorities than Obama, the democratic party, the republican party or even the supreme court. The policy is mediated first by the Bilderberg group which receives it from the masters, then transcends to CFR and trilateral; it is financed by the Federal Reserve and its economic aspects are enforced by it, strategically is imposed by force by the military industrial complex and the pentagon, protected by the CIA, MI6 and Mossad, and also supported by the various departments, and finally presented by Obama. The important thing to note is Obama's speech highlighted terrorism, viruses and global economic recessions as basis for a new world order!

http://www.voltairenet.org/article160454.html

If you know what happened to JFK, you should know what I?m talking about; just imagine how powerful they were in the 60s, and how powerful they could?ve become in 50 years!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxnpujfanUM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw
Obama went short on democracy
[info]alexweir1949 wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 05:30 am (UTC)
Obama went short on democracy

Obama's speech section on democracy was short. He equates elections with democracy, which - in the light of the huge number of frauded elections in the Third World - is a huge mistake or omission. Third World Leaders do not want democracy and fraud-proof elections - they do very well out of the status quo - pro-western dictatorships are not labelled as dictatorships (anti-western dictatorships are of course). The Western military-industrial-political complex loves pro-western dictatorships. If Obama is genuine and if he is intelligent, how long before he stumbles on the truth? And who will neutralise him before or after that event? Will his strong Americanism be overcome by his strong internationalism and sense of fair play?

Fraud-proof voting systems are the only way to justice and freedom for all mankind - which must not be limited to the pampered and myopic few who by accident of birth live in the so-called developed countries.

Mr Alex Weir, Harare, Zimbabwe

That O'Bomber Speech Point-By-Point
[info]leonard_merryl wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 05:57 am (UTC)
# now listen you scum, we Yanks are top nation and we'll annihilate anyone who disagrees

# did you know there's a world water shortage? so when we water-board you, it's a sign of friendship, that we're sharing our valuable resources... even with low-life crap like you.

# we're killing you to help you. why can't you understand that?

# guantanamo is a kind of holiday resort in the Caribbean

# bagram is a lovely prison

# you didn't need those women & children anyhow, did you? We saved you the cost of their upkeep when we murdered them

# those who are not with us are against us

# one Reich, one People

# please stop complaining when we bomb you, it hurts our sensitive American ears
Re: That O'Bomber Speech Point-By-Point
[info]jackkrak wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 09:15 am (UTC)
You, Sir, are a genius as well as a stunningly talented writer and political commentator. The insight and wit of what you have written has made all other posts here utterly worthless. Hopefully, someone at the Independent will see your post and contact you with an offer to have your own lead article every day. I eagerly await your next piece of wisdom........
Re: That O'Bomber Speech Point-By-Point - [info]leonard_merryl - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 09:23 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: That O'Bomber Speech Point-By-Point - [info]gopherwomble - Saturday, 6 June 2009 at 12:27 am (UTC) Expand
Re: That O&#39;Bomber Speech Point-By-Point - [info]leonard_merryl - Saturday, 6 June 2009 at 08:09 am (UTC) Expand
[info]jools33 wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 06:10 am (UTC)
Think back to the last presidential speech that offered so much potential - I can't recall one in my lifetime. I should think al-Qa'ida is missing bush even more today.
Childish charicatures
[info]jools33 wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 06:18 am (UTC)
So findempire - pakistan should be taken over by the Taliban - and loose all rights to democracy? Have the Taliban not also killed (innocent women and children). Anyone who thinks that their case is brought forward by misspelling the US presidents name in such a weak and childish charicature on issues such as this really denegrates from their argument before they have had the chance to make it properly. Give Obama a chance to act before tearing him to shreds, and write with maturity or don't write at all.
He shames you, do you feel it
[info]freedommonger wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 06:22 am (UTC)
....because what Obama said was no different to Mr Bush in its substance

The truth is that Obama is finishing the journey that Bush began after 911. Unlike me Obama will not ask you to account for the torrent of lies and hate narrative promoted by people like Mr Fisk and so many others about colonnisation, stealing/controlling oil etc etc. that has fuelled extremism and insurgency and cost so many lives, Arab and others.

Its been a battle for hearts and minds, for the belief that yes, the US only wants Iraqis and Afghans to be free.

No, the US (annual GDP $13,000 billion) did not plan to spend $200 bn to steal/control oil worth today $55bn a year (2.5 mill bbl/d x 365 days x $60 per bbl). So far the US has spent well over 1,000 billion on Iraq.

This oil lie is so prervalent, so cretinous on even a cursory examination of the facts and yet so universally held it simply beggars belief. How did this happen? I say a mass hysteria as faced with having to stand up we chose instead toi invent fairy stories that excused us.

In this battle these people chose to incite extremism and suffering wuith thois oily lie, and others about colonisation despite the self evident emerging sovereign democratic sttate.

Its hard for you all to react the same to Obama. With Bush it was easy. The only real difference is style. Such is almost the definition of racism. The orator and their delivery style must be "acceptable" to your "sensibilities"

Infantile, hateful, for 6 years the "informed" (sic) received opinion has been literally poison to peace in these countries

Its time to STOP the stupid lies.

If you m,aike an assertion it is simply indecent not to stand it up, not to show how, in the porder you say events happened, why this made sense for the accused to act that way.

Here's another example. 30% of people believe Diana was killed by MI6 in car crash in a tunnel on Philips orders!

Huge numbers believe that 911 was a false flag attack

What has happened to peoples minds? How did they get so rotted and disconnected? What was happening to peoples minds before the popular election of Hitler, Hamas, Lenin ?

These ignorant narratives of hate cost lives.

STOP
Re: He shames you, do you feel it
[info]britfree wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 09:15 am (UTC)
HAMAS the freely elected government of the palestinian people by a clear majority , zionism a criminal enterprise bent on stealing someone elses land , ashamed to stand against fascists and criminals ? britfree? nope
Re: He shames you, do you feel it - [info]freedommonger - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 11:43 am (UTC) Expand
Re: He shames you, do you feel it - [info]goatbucket - Friday, 5 June 2009 at 04:03 pm (UTC) Expand
One world, one humanity
[info]hultis wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 06:25 am (UTC)
Wonderful, at last a true ambassador for peace. Let's face it, our plant is burdened by global crises, the environment, war & security, abuse of human rights, obesity in some areas and starvation in others. Maybe it's time to begin to see the world as one planet, humanity as one people. Many of our problems come from groups of people forming abond based on non-existant and arbitrary red lines on pieces of paper - our socalled national boundaries. The boundaries do not exist in reality, but they form a basis for unity internally and sources of fear for what is outside. They are counterproductive - fear-producing and the source of egoism. Let's abolish the national states once and for all and see our planet, it's really not that big, as one. Let's se all humans as brothers and sisters irrespective of race, religion, or ethnicity. Global problems need global solutions. Let's give Lady Gaia her proper expression as a united world.

All the best

Stefan Hultberg
Obama doesn't control the U.S., Zionist Jews do
[info]giuseppesaponi wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 06:28 am (UTC)
Obama's rise to power has been largely financed by Jews.
AIPAC's (the Israel lobby) vice like hold over the U.S.Congress is so total that non-Jewish members are open in putting Israel's interests over that of America's and it has ensured that U.S. Jews can spy for Israel with impunity (see the case of Steve Rosen)
It is almost impossile for an American who does not publicly express fealty to Israel to hold a political office (see the case of Charles Freeman).
The racist government of Netanyahu has basically ignored what Obama has told them concerning settlements, because Netanyahu knows that Obama is emasculated by AIPAC's control of Congress.
Zionist Jews in the U.S. control the media, Hollywood so that the "average Joe" American is only ever fed Israeli propaganda when it comes to the Middle East and not the real news.
These are FACTS and no doubt the Israeli supporting Jewish Supremacists will come out with their usual "neo-Nazi" name calling.
READ THIS ARTICLE and learn what has happened to the United States of America.

http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/05/28/mohamed-khodr-the-three-branches-of-the-aipac-the-executive-the-legislative-and-the-judicial/

So, Obama couldn't bring peace to the Middle east even if he wanted to. Israel want the U.S to attack Iran and it is difficult to see how Obama can prevent it.
Re: Obama doesn't control the U.S., Zionist Jews do
[info]floppsiefrog wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 08:59 am (UTC)
Well, now that Obama has sort of nailed his colours to the mast, we'll see what happens. Obviously, the American government is maxed out and out of money and cannot afford to finance its current foreign policy, so now is as good time as any for Obama to announce a change of heart. The alternative would mean Americans would have to start eating grass, as do the people of North Korea.
Re: Obama doesn't control the U.S., Zionist Jews do - [info]ydef - Friday, 12 June 2009 at 03:25 am (UTC) Expand
Fisk on Obama
[info]gravitas31 wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 06:41 am (UTC)
Good analysis, Mr Fisk. The two words conspicuous by their absence from the president's speech were the same two words shorn of meaning in that part of the world since 1948. International law.

And, yes, you're absolutely right, there were glaring inconsistencies. The emphasis on the Holocaust without acknowledging the Nakba. The idea that the Jewish people are endowed with more rights as a result of this tragic event fed the poison of exceptionalism responsible for the suffering of the Palestinians and the dislocation of the entire region as a result of Israel's expansionist policies.

Alas, just like his predecessors, it is clear that the 44th President is firmly wedded to the notion that a world riven by the poison of exceptionalism can be distracted from the injustice such exceptionalism spawns with words of comfort to those for whom human rights are not inalienable but negotiable.
Racism
[info]freedommonger wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 06:42 am (UTC)
Now, without opening your eyes, I want you to picture that little girl. Now imagine she's white

Now, without opening your eyes, I want you to picture that speaker. Now imagine it is G W Bush

Its hard to recognise yourself, but amoral not to try

while you have a think, STOP
Obama Speaks with Forked Tongue
[info]proximaking wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 06:50 am (UTC)
The problem with the speech is it goes only halfway and it was just that, a speech, mere words. If a man steals $100 from you and the sheriff offers to "do you a favour" and get $50 back 60 years after your $100 was stolen what would you think of the sheriff come election day, or come judgement day? He hasn't even got your $50 back all he has given you is a series of platitudes. He wouldn't be getting any praise from me and only a fool would believe a word Obama says after the lies he told about Guantanamo bay "being closed, not being closed, torture is wrong on the other hand sometimes it isn't etc etc etc." Land was stolen from its rightful keepers and the thieves refuse to hand it back and the sheriff backs the thieves instead of simply stringing them up as an example to all. Sounds just like a re-run of stealing land from the native Americans all over the continent and writing new treaties every few years until all the land had been stolen. The best sheriff for the job of righting the wrongs done to the Palestinians was never going to be a swaggering arrogant country who only existed because it had already done exactly the same thing the israelis were in the midst of doing. It is not only time for the israelis to be gone from all Palestinian land it is time the USA was gone from Indian lands, the USA has shown itself to be treacherous in all its worldly dealings it always to put material interests above doing what is right. It is no friend of the truth, it speaks with forked tongue.
Re: Obama Speaks with Forked Tongue
[info]smoothop8388 wrote:
Sunday, 7 June 2009 at 05:57 am (UTC)
Just to correct; it's only 20$ the palestenians are asking for; which they won't be able to get! And even Obama didn't mention the arab peace initiative or the UN resolution that ask for a withdrawal to 67 borders which gives the Palestenians 20%, or 20$ metaphorically speaking.
No more John Wayne politics
[info]humble_sparrow wrote:
Friday, 5 June 2009 at 06:54 am (UTC)
Well done Mr. Obama
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