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Robert Fisk’s World: Beirut's history can't be reduced to a mere 'heritage trail'

The Romans were here. The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came

They've just discovered a bit of Beirut's Crusader castle. Most of the other great coastal cities of Lebanon – Tripoli, Batroun, Jbeil (for which read Byblos) and Sidon – have their castles in various states of perfect preservation or decay, but the Ottomans and then the Lebanese commercial elite managed to destroy the great keep that guarded the port of Beirut, the first to use as a quarry for their own walls, the latter out of greed.

After all, who wants a bloody great Crusader castle blocking the road to a thriving new port? So "zap" went Beirut's majestic castle. You can see it now only in the sketches of W H Bartlett in 1838 and of Samuel Green and – already in a pathetic state of disrepair – at the bottom of a British war department map of 1857.

Until, that is, Hans Curvers, one of the archaeologists who have dug through the underworld of Beirut and who is no helping, along with urban planner Amira Solh, to create a "heritage trail" – yes, aaagh, I hate the word "heritage" as much as any reader, of which more later – came across the very lowest wall of the castle. He shows it off proudly and, for a moment, I rather thought this Belgian-German archaeologist would like to claim ownership. The beautifully dressed Crusader stones – each with a delicately cut rim – are the base of a tower, the westernmost limit of the Crusader castle. The Ottomans built their own fortress on top of it and part of their tower exists too.

And, of course, you can find Crusader stones in the Ottoman fortification, just as you can find Roman columns embedded for support within the Crusader remains and – can we be surprised? – the 19th-century Brits, when they arrived in Beirut to defend the Druze from the Maronites (the French had already arrived to defend the Christians), built their own barracks on top of other defences. In other words, each new military force, Roman, Omayad, Turkish, British, the Lebanese themselves, physically used their predecessor's history. Walking through the ruins with Hans, you can, far below the level of the forthcoming "trail" – outside the dry moat of the lost castle – see the relics of a Canaanite wall. In other words, the old city of Beirut is a giant historical club sandwich, the lower slice of stone "bread" being about 5,000 years old.

Like archive photographs, therefore, ancient cities are about memory – not so much about loss, but about witness. The Romans were here. The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came. Indeed, one of the most beautiful mosques in Beirut, less than half a mile away, was a Crusader church, and when you go inside, it clearly was a Christian place of worship, complete with medieval arched windows and apse. And when the French mandate authorities built their own shopping streets, they often used real Roman marble columns on either side of their doors to prettify their buildings. Then came the 1975-90 civil war to wreck the lot. Most of mandate Beirut – though not the Ottoman bit, which was also trashed – has been restored. But the French street names have remained. So the titans of my Dad's First World War – Foch, Clemenceau, Allenby, Weygand – still grace the walls.

Weygand – the man who dismissed Churchill's 1940 offer of common citizenship as "fusion with a corpse" and initially joined Vichy – has survived, but the hero of Verdun did not. When the British, Free French and Australians invaded Lebanon, they wouldn't tolerate "rue Maréchal Pétain" any more. As Hans discovered, it was appropriately changed to "rue de France", a good idea since Lebanon was ruled by Pétain's Vichy for more than a year, complete with Nazi anti-Jewish laws. And, of course, wartime tourists thus included visitors from the Gestapo. But, since we are talking history, it should be recorded that this racist legislation was vigorously condemned at the time both by the Sunni Mufti of Beirut and the Maronite patriarch.

Hans, archaeologist and consultant to Solidere – which owns much of the centre of the city and continues to build there – is the giant behind the magical mystery tour, pointing to a Persian gate complex at one moment, then blithely leading the way past Canaanite buttresses, a bullet-pocked wall (from the 1975-90 smiting), a Hellenistic sacred well, and a mass of late Roman straw grinders. Angus Gavin, the head of Solidere's urban development, describes Beirut as the "multilayered city par excellence"; in fact, the entire pre-1830 city lies in the Solidere area. A site museum would be included in the tourist walk; indeed, the whole trail would itself be a museum.

But I'm worried about the "heritage" bit, with its corny linguistic inheritance. There might be a site museum on a 5,000-year old Canaanite wall, but no one's going to dress up in Roman uniform or Crusader armour. It's true that there have been so many political assassinations in Beirut that one group of students has also cruelly suggested an "assassination trail" for tourists. I think "history trail" might be better for Solidere. Even a "memory trail" – but which of Lebanon's religious communities will then try to lay claim to the largest memory?

And there's one other problem – and I'm setting aside a main road with Lebanon's homicidal drivers that bisects the two-mile trail – and that's the Berri militia. To be fair, it's a car park of trucks belonging to Beirut's parliament police force whose boss is the Shia speaker, Nabih Berri. He is one of Lebanon's smartest politicians – he also once helped to save my life during the civil war – but he really should move his lads off the site, which contains another part of Roman-Persian Beirut. The only alternative – an exclusively Fisk idea, I have to admit – is to incorporate these armed men as antiquities themselves, so that tourists can take pictures of their clapped-out vehicles and exotic grey camouflage uniforms and poppy-red hats. Then you really could use the word "heritage".

More from Robert Fisk

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The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came
[info]rationalist99 wrote:
Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 09:23 am (UTC)
Again when I read this, I wonder does Robert Fisk know his history.
He says

“The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came.”

Actually, Arabs are indigenous to one country in the world, the Arabian peninsula, now Saudi Arabia.
It would be basically accurate to describe the indigenous inhabitants of North Africa as Berbers. Their language, Tamazight, barely survives these days. The reason they speak Arabic is because of the great Arab conquests of the 7th and 8th Centuries.
These can be summarised thus:

637 AD The conquest of Syria
639AD The conquest of Armenia
641 AD The conquest of Egypt
652AD The conquest of North Africa
665AD The conquest of North Africa
711AD Invasion of Spain leading to 700 years of occupation
732AD Invasion of France, Muslims defeated by Frankish Army led by Charles Martel
717-718 AD Arab siege of Constantinople

Beirut was captured by the Arabs in 635.




Modern politically correct histories will tell you that Jerusalem fell to the Muslims without a fight but, in fact, the reason no major battle was fought for Jerusalem in 638 was that Byzantines had been defeated at Battle of Yarmuk in 636. Jerusalem sustained a 4 month siege before it surrendered.

After all this aggression, it wasn’t until 1095 that the First Crusade was started.
The Western half of Christendom responded to a call for military help from the Byzantine Emperor.
Hence, the chronological order Fisk gives for the history of Beirut is simply wrong.

In many was the Crusades ultimately failed. Constantinople’s 800 years of resistance ended when it fell to the Turks in 1453.
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came
[info]happyness0 wrote:
Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 11:26 am (UTC)
1) Interesting comment but I would like to know which part of the article made you wonder if Fisk truely knows about the history of a country in which he has lived three decades?

2) It is very misleading to call the Islamic conquest an "Arab Conquest", many of the conquerors were NOT Arabs but were muslims from different regions. Thus it is historically known as the "Islamic Conquest".

3) You were right in pointing out that Arabs are originally from the Arabian Peninsula but not from Saudi Arabia. All arabs originally come from Yemen, "Land of Sheba". Thousands of years ago a dam collapsed in Sheba which forced many arabs to settle elsewhere (Saudi Arabia, Oman, Bahrain, Egypt, Syria, Iraq...etc). Arabs were never unified nor did they have a "Country" before Islam. They were tribals holding different religions. Like the Arab Christians who lived in "Najran" -a city in Saudi Arabia-and Arab jews who lived in "Yathreb" - now called Medina. Most converted once Islam appeared in Mecca.
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 07:18 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 08:13 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]happyness0 - Monday, 26 October 2009 at 02:20 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Monday, 26 October 2009 at 06:33 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Saturday, 28 November 2009 at 10:44 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]rationalist99 - Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 07:12 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]slaveweknow - Saturday, 28 November 2009 at 10:46 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came
[info]smoothop8388 wrote:
Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 11:56 am (UTC)
Interesting comment indeed; if you follow this trail, the English wouldn't be English if it wasn't for the roman conquests, and the northern European nations would be nothing more than illiterate Germanic tribes! That?s history, what makes an Englishman English? What makes your Queen English? Isn't she originally German? Aren't all your royalty since William the conqueror foreigners according to your logic? Do you believe in complete purity of race, because there's no such thing!

I'd like to add here that originally prior to Islam, there were two types of Arabs (meaning Arab speaking people), the Arab tribes of Yemen, and the Arabs who were the decedents of Ishmael, son of Ibrahim. When the first tribes of Ishmael started to expand, that's when the Arabic language spread across the Arab peninsula, and that's when the world started to refer to them as the Arab Tribes. The Arab people in that sense are the Arab speaking people, which it's exactly what it means now, the Arab speaking people in Morocco, Egypt, Lebanon and Iraq. They probably have more racial and genetic similarities with each other than with anybody else, just like Europeans or Asians might have similar traits. They may have ancient Arab tribal blood in their family and they may not; you really can't tell; the vast majority is most probably Semitic. At the end, that's how history goes, languages diminish, languages flourish, language creates bonds, religions diminishes, religions flourish, and religion creates bonds between people.
I don't know how you assumed that the Byzantines were crusaders; they're two different things, the first is an orthodox Christian empire, mainly from Greece and eastern Europe that conquered and ruled over large parts of the middle east, and the latter are ambitious catholic Christians mainly from western Europe who wanted to conquer the holy land, and on their way, actually murdered thousands of muslim, jewish and orthodox Christian civilians. If you want to look at history in this biased way, be my guest, you're only showing your ignorant prejudice colors.
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]rationalist99 - Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 01:37 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]goatbucket - Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 03:03 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]rationalist99 - Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 03:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]goatbucket - Monday, 26 October 2009 at 02:45 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]rationalist99 - Monday, 26 October 2009 at 05:10 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]goatbucket - Tuesday, 27 October 2009 at 05:58 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]freedon4sale - Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 09:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]rationalist99 - Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 11:23 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]bajaninthesun - Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 05:52 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 09:01 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 09:41 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 08:48 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 09:30 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Saturday, 28 November 2009 at 10:50 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]rationalist99 - Sunday, 29 November 2009 at 11:34 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Sunday, 29 November 2009 at 07:38 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Sunday, 6 December 2009 at 03:35 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]bajaninthesun - Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 05:48 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 09:14 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]dmoloney1 - Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 03:12 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]bajaninthesun - Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 04:33 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Wednesday, 28 October 2009 at 07:03 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Wednesday, 28 October 2009 at 07:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 10:20 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]freedon4sale - Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 10:46 am (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came
[info]bajaninthesun wrote:
Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 05:26 am (UTC)
Constantinople actually fell to the crusaders in 1203-1204 first. Constantinople was weakened beyond repair and fell into a long decline that ended with the Turkish conquest in 1453.
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]rationalist99 - Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 12:20 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]bajaninthesun - Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 04:03 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The Crusaders were here, and then the Muslims came - [info]slaveweknow - Saturday, 28 November 2009 at 10:52 pm (UTC) Expand
Adultery will be rampant!rulers will be corrupt...
[info]freedon4sale wrote:
Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 10:28 am (UTC)
qartaj was occupied by Romanian for hundred of years,they break down the city taking its stones to by changed into powder for few hundred years,so people memory is also grounded to ash.then twist its tongue and civilization to be as it is now!
Israel is doing the same in Palestine,changing names of streets,building.villages,mosques,churches,the most difficult is Al-AlQass,so over 60 years digging under it in vein to find a clue for the Temple,the plan is now to instability to its construction to fall down ."artificial each Quake" is not difficult to Israel to do!
the excuse to say that ISrael has no partner for peace will ONLY MAKE ITS PLAN FASTER FOR Evacuation of Arab (Muslim & Christian ) at few years. to the worse if PA were patient with "peace process" keep talking for 2020 to 2030 til no land left to talk about or no people to talk with after tranfers to Jorden and Egypt by ISraeli &coop like now by Abbass and his successor (Many on the Ques waiting to take ovber).
urgency make THE SIMILARITY with Lebanon...! you know FISK
Re: Adultery will be rampant!rulers will be corrupt...
[info]ganef wrote:
Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 05:02 pm (UTC)
Silly me, but I thought Fisk's piece was about Beirut but freedon4sale has a one-track mind.
Re: Adultery will be rampant!rulers will be corrupt... - [info]freedon4sale - Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 10:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Adultery will be rampant!rulers will be corrupt... - [info]freedon4sale - Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 09:20 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Adultery will be rampant!rulers will be corrupt... - [info]aurora206 - Monday, 26 October 2009 at 10:59 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Adultery will be rampant!rulers will be corrupt... - [info]freedon4sale - Tuesday, 27 October 2009 at 07:43 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Adultery will be rampant!rulers will be corrupt... - [info]freedon4sale - Saturday, 28 November 2009 at 10:42 pm (UTC) Expand
history
[info]deir_yasin wrote:
Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 10:57 am (UTC)
a nation that still can not decide on a history book,for its children dont deserve ,a history ,or heritage ,for that matter.and please dont remind us of a converted church or mosqu,so some illiterate (abaday) from sheyyah ,or ashrafieh.starts another war.
we cant decide of how to honour our martyrs old or new.i visited normandy last year and saw how honouring the dead only enriches a nation as a whole ,i cried not only for the senslesness of war ,any war,but when you look at those elegant graves ,that are constructed so that time will not affect their beauty and pride .while our martyrs are hidden or covered up in some private grave .
so petty this land do not pitty its nation ,pitty our future do not pitty our past,and most of all pitty your heart ,,for it has fallen in love with beirute
really now who cares
[info]deir_yasin wrote:
Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 11:37 am (UTC)
they all came ,they all went and they may come again ,they will leave again .this is not the history in discussion now,how can we agree on a heritage ,when we canot agree on history .thats the discussion
Something in the air?
[info]psmith42 wrote:
Saturday, 24 October 2009 at 05:14 pm (UTC)
Is there something in the air of Beirut that makes men's fancy turn to love? Or at least romance. Was it Nabi Beri's wife that Fisk described as "fragrant"? Or was that Walid Jumblatt? Or another? "Jumblatt’s glorious wife Nora" - thank you google.

Surely it is living dangerously to profess admiration for any of the wives of men who have overseen the torturing to death of prisoners from 'the other side' (whichever side that be in Beirut's murderous politics), even if, as Fisk as told us, it only took two days, from the time two men were put into the boot of a car on the corniche? Fisk also told us that Jumblatt was the only Lebanese faction leader who hadn't done it.

On the subject of torturing to death prisoners, what news of the bringing to justice of the murderers of over one hundred prisoners that the Americans have tortured to death? What news of the 27,000 in secret American prisons about whom Fisk asked "Where are they? Can they be freed now? Or are they dead? If Obama finds that he is inheriting mass graves from George W Bush, there will be a lot of apologising to do."

Are they alive? Or are they in mass graves? And why has this story not been followed up relentlessly by the fearless muckrakers of the press? 'Muckraker' being practically the only term of high praise left for a worthwhile journalist in today's lie-infested Main Stream Media (MSM) world. Claud Cockburn and John Pilger being two fine examples. And R. Fisk, Esq.

Perhaps that something in the air was the stink of bloody death. The _usual_ stink of bloody death.

Robert Fisk: Obama has to pay for eight years of Bush's delusions - Saturday, 8 November 2008 -

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-obama-has-to-pay-for-eight-years-of-bushs-delusions-1001092.html

Re: Something in the air?
[info]deir_yasin wrote:
Monday, 2 November 2009 at 01:00 pm (UTC)
actually its the church bomber dr samir jaja wife (strida)who is a member of parliament,who is the most beautiful politician in lebanon ,and probably everywhere else ,despite the loathing some lebanese have for her husband ,nost of us think shes .....glorious .well thats the lebanese way ,blinded by beauty ,so we cant blame fisk could we
la crise libanaise
[info]boeticia wrote:
Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 01:58 am (UTC)
What? No "la crise Libanaise" trail? This was a much frequently used phrase during the Lebanon war years, and no conversation was complete without someone uttering it with all the pathos of a Greek
tragedy play.
Freedon4sale
[info]ganef wrote:
Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 11:25 am (UTC)
In considering this person's contributions to this blog, there are several points to consider.

1. The subject matter of Fisk's articles are totally irrelevant. He has his own agenda and will spout the same things over and over again from blog to blog.

2. He will make outrageous statements based on spurious sources with no real evidence, as fact. Look carefully at his postings and you will see that he cannot spell, has poor grammatical control and does not understand syntax. Occasionally his postings include perfect English, indicating he has copy/pasted from another source.

3. You cannot enter into any form of dialogue (bajaninthesun take note) because he will counter your responses to his rantings by attacking you and accusing you of belonging to certain groups opposed to his views. He will never agree with you.

4. He speaks with great knowledge of an area he has not been within 2,500 miles of; has never studied in any great depth at school or university. He is not even expert in genuine works of history. He merely repeats the words and opinions of other people, many or most of whom will have similar education (or the lack of it) to him.

5. He really does have a one-track mind and any response to this posting will show it. Notice what is missing from my posting and notice what he adds. I am still puzzling over a posting of his elsewhere that suggested I cannot spell "gang". I have no idea what he means, and I have no idea what his little picture means. I enlarged it and improved it but I do not follow the significance.

Your best bet is to ignore him and try not to engage him in discussion.
The thief and the dog's memory
[info]freedon4sale wrote:
Monday, 26 October 2009 at 06:25 pm (UTC)
You like to operate at night just like the thieves, you do not want me to show your lies. As I am from the same part of Palestine, I know exactly how big your lies are and you know this from my post to you before;anyone can not express his language does not mean that he is wrong!do not pick on that,stop misleading the readers.
The symbol is self explanatory ,who can not see or does not want to see,he is either blind ,ignorant or try to be ignorant.The first option is only cured by Jesus,Ignorant or pretending to be ignorant to fool himself as the ostrich,people can understand it, it shows their opinion.
what is the new that you tell the readers about me?
When I post i say see this "......", it was all from books I read and forwarded,all of us have the right to show what he reads from?! is this bothering you ganef? grow up..!
what is bothering you is that :i am from the same land that Zionist stole from me generation over generation; Zionists are trying to wipe up the memory from the world . People see what you want them see..!that is your intention for the last post to "freedon4sale" the story of Qartaj that you did not like is exactly what is happening now in Palestine! when Israel is changing the names of streets,cities,villages....Changing names of the land that Zionist stole from my family,does not give Zionist the right to wipe up my memory,I remember one day when i was young some one stole my dog "Kelly" and changed its color kept it with him for 6 months,one day when i was coming from the school the dog came to me while I was going home.the thief could not wipe up the dog's memory though he changed the dog's color,the thief missed the fact that the DOG-(kelly) is faithful to the one who looked after him since he was poppy.
Re: Freedon4sale
[info]slaveweknow wrote:
Sunday, 6 December 2009 at 03:45 pm (UTC)
I am reviewing your comments to see that : "you do not want us to see other people views) which come true after a wile.
Perhaps the most incendiary paragraph in the essay - albeit one whose contents have been confirmed in the Israeli press - discusses Israel's pressure on the United States to invade Iraq. "Israeli intelligence officials had given Washington a variety of alarming reports about Iraq's WMD programmes," the two academics write, quoting a retired Israeli general as saying: "Israeli intelligence was a full partner to the picture presented by American and British intelligence regarding Iraq's non-conventional capabilities."

Walt says he might take a year's sabbatical - though he doesn't want to get typecast as a "lobby" critic - because he needs a rest after his recent administrative post. There will be Israeli lobbyists, no doubt, who would he happy if he made that sabbatical a permanent one. I somehow doubt he will.
USA and israel are one even before 11/9.
israel know very well than Afghanistan will not leave Jerusalem with the zionist hands that is why Zionist killed Abdula Azam,prophecy of Prophet Mohammad say that Afghan with black turban will release palestine,Zionist who believe in Prophet mohammad say try to delay this to happened by using other nation to fight for them,as usual(they used Abbass to fight hammas the main problem to israel).
Media & banks are with their hand,they manipulate people for their interest only,Blair and the rest is only the tool for them. The first part of the Prophecy of The Prophet Mohammad had come true that two cities in Europe will be enlightened with Islam; Rome and Constantine (Istanbul) and when he was asked which one will be opened first he answered Constantine (Istanbul) and this had happened in the time of the Ottoman Empire Mohammad AlFateh the one who built Romali Hisar Castle on the posphore gulf that we can see until today and the time for Rome to be enlightened by Islam is coming too and the Prophet Mohammad had mentioned clearly that it will not be opened by war but by knowledge and debate and that was exactly what Jesus had confirmed by saying" the sword will be very long in the mouth" which means the knowledge and debate will take place, that is why the west and USA/Israel are spreading the Islam phobia.
Re: Freedon4sale - [info]freedon4sale - Sunday, 6 December 2009 at 04:54 pm (UTC) Expand
Arabs from Arabia?
[info]repstones wrote:
Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 12:39 pm (UTC)
To portray all the worlds arabs as being descended from the arabian pennisula is grossly inaccurate. Its akin to saying all Irish, native Americans and Aborigines are from England, just because they speak English. A conquered people adopt the language, customs and religion of the conquerer.
Re: Arabs from Arabia?
[info]rationalist99 wrote:
Sunday, 25 October 2009 at 07:17 pm (UTC)
Exactly. That was the point I was making. Many of the inhabitants of North Africa are not really Arabs at all.
Thieves & the dog memory!
[info]freedon4sale wrote:
Monday, 26 October 2009 at 06:35 pm (UTC)
You like to operate at night just like the thieves, you do not want me to show your lies. As I am from the same part of Palestine, I know exactly how big your lies are and you know this from my post to you before;anyone can not express his language does not mean that he is wrong!do not pick on that,stop misleading the readers.
The symbol is self explanatory ,who can not see or does not want to see,he is either blind ,ignorant or try to be ignorant.The first option is only cured by Jesus,Ignorant or pretending to be ignorant to fool himself as the ostrich,people can understand it, it shows their opinion.
what is the new that you tell the readers about me?
When I post i say see this "......", it was all from books I read and forwarded,all of us have the right to show what he reads from?! is this bothering you ganef? grow up..!
what is bothering you is that :i am from the same land that Zionist stole from me generation over generation; Zionists are trying to wipe up the memory from the world . People see what you want them see..!that is your intention for the last post to "freedon4sale" the story of Qartaj that you did not like is exactly what is happening now in Palestine! when Israel is changing the names of streets,cities,villages....Changing names of the land that Zionist stole from my family,does not give Zionist the right to wipe up my memory,I remember one day when i was young some one stole my dog "Kelly" and changed its color kept it with him for 6 months,one day when i was coming from the school the dog came to me while I was going home.the thief could not wipe up the dog's memory though he changed the dog's color,the thief missed the fact that the DOG-(kelly) is faithful to the one who looked after him since he was poppy.
[info]freedon4sale wrote:
Monday, 26 October 2009 at 07:33 pm (UTC)
this is ganef lies;
"He will make outrageous statements based on spurious sources with no real evidence"
where is the evidence that Israel and the temple was in Palestine?
"He will never agree with you".
looking to yesterday and day before,I post to some one called "baninthesun" and thanked him for his information,I did apologized to him,you can see this...!in the same post in here..!
ganef not only lie about the people who are dead,he also like on the people who are alive and even in the same post,his magic of lies is un-presidential.
A lesson to the one who insult and hide?
[info]freedon4sale wrote:
Monday, 26 October 2009 at 09:05 pm (UTC)
ganef wrote to me: "has never studied in any great depth at school or university."
were is the evidence ?Did you do your I.Q ganef? for your short sighted.....!
#some people who are unable to right (Autistic savant)who can know more than anyone elss.#
your criticism is showing your Ignorance;prejudice,arrogance from having super-race mastered by cunning misleading to the readers.
insult & hide!
[info]freedon4sale wrote:
Monday, 26 October 2009 at 09:42 pm (UTC)
gange said this to me and hide by blocking me to post to him:"has never studied in any great depth at school or university."
were is the evidence ?Did you do your I.Q ganef?
#some people who are unable to right (Autistic savant)who can know more than anyone elss.#
your criticism is showing you Ignorance;prejudiced and arrogant coming from super race.
full with wisdom of cunning to smear the victims and mislead the readers.
Vocation
[info]aurora206 wrote:
Monday, 26 October 2009 at 11:10 pm (UTC)
I truly believe that after all those years of writing pretentious, biased crap, Fisk has found his vocation, which is as a travel writer !!
"heritage trail' to where?to destruction of civilization of a nation under occupation.
[info]freedon4sale wrote:
Tuesday, 27 October 2009 at 08:59 pm (UTC)
Zionists are active today as usual,demolish houses in jerusalem,killing hndreds of trees using chemicals in Nables north of west bank,Zionist do not allow Palestinian to use the water,open streets,build schools....etc....but USA pay for persons and centers for torturing Palestinians....! we have seen human right report in Palestine,we saw Dr.Mamdwh AL-KEKER on Al-jaziaah two days ago.
If this continue while Arab, west and USA keep mouth shut the cat which is cornered will scratch; no one knows the after effect on the world....this will burn the hands of every one . .....!
Treat it before it is too late....!
destruction of civilization of a nation under occupation in 2009.
[info]freedon4sale wrote:
Wednesday, 28 October 2009 at 06:52 pm (UTC)
Egyptian mean Black mud =Egypt.
Unitarianism =are those who were chriaitans believe in Jesus as prophet,once islam came to Egypt,they find themselves are like Muslims,but were perscuded by Roman,when Omer bin al-assi release the Roman prisoners,the Unitarians where reversions from the Romanian Christiane ,by time people used the Wrong name and accuse Muslims who did this to Christians.
the resone that i say this,is to be clearing the facts that someone wanted to divide the egypian people to and try to stop me from showing the plans for those people.
[info]slaveweknow wrote:
Friday, 6 November 2009 at 09:49 am (UTC)
read about Dr.sand in Tel-Aviv university.about history of Europe and fake Israel.
[info]slaveweknow wrote:
Saturday, 28 November 2009 at 10:48 pm (UTC)
MP Gerald Kaufman (Jew/ Labour House of Lords)has created a stir likening the Israeli attacks on Gaza with the actions of the Nazis in World War Two.
Please check the following link http://news..bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7833726.stm
Also slide show in Arabic but could be understood (diffrent between Hamas & Fateh)
""When Christians and Jews refused to convert, the armies of Islam took to war to force conversions. Forced conversions have no validity, and have the opposite effect of creating hatred for the converter in the hearts and minds of those forced. ""
THIS IS TOTAL MISLEADING IN THE HISTORY OF ISLAM,MUSLIMS SAVED BOTH JEWS AND CHRIACINS,IN SPAIN AND IN THE WORLD, OTTOMAN EMPYER AND KALKIFA OMAER,
Jews were expelled from Arab lands for Arabs? hatred of Jews.?

History, in fact, paints Arabs as liberators of Jewish communities in Jerusalem (638), Spain (711), Palestine (1186), and Germany (1940s). The discovery of the Cairo ?Geniza?, a treasure trove of documents found in the 11th century Cairo Synagogue, prove that Jewish communities were an integral part of Islamic culture. After WW I, it were Zionist leaders and Zionist agents and British officials who created fear among Jewish communities living Arab countries ? to relocate them into British mandated Palestine as part of Zionist strategy to increase the Jewish population in Palestine.
ALL WHAT COPY OF HARI JOHANN on his article 28/1/09 and 28/2/09,which was total twisting and full of cunning by saying half the facts....equal to lies.
fisk is right,they hate him,most juoralist do not say the truth.fisk do.

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