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Robert Fisk’s World: The West should feel shame over its collusion with torturers

I want to know why those complicit in Almalki’s ordeal are not tried in court

I invited Abdullah Almalki to breakfast in Ottawa but he only took coffee. And while I wolfed down my all-English breakfast in the Chateau Laurier Hotel (beloved of Churchill and Karsh of Ottawa fame), he sipped gingerly at his cup with much on his mind. Snooped on by the Canadian secret service and then tortured in Syria while the Canadian authorities did nothing for him – save supplying his perverted torturers with questions – he had much to think about. A carbon copy of Binyam Mohamed, the British resident who had his penis cut up while the Brits sent questions to his perverted Moroccan torturers.

In Abdullah Almalki's case, he wasn't renditioned. He simply flew into Damascus to see his Syrian family, got banged up in the city's secret police headquarters and was then beaten into submission, not much different from an even more famous case – that of Maher Arar, who was a Canadian citizen and got renditioned to Damascus by the Americans while the US authorities sent questions to his perverted Syrian torturers. Arar has received apologies from US senators – though not from the war hero George Bush (battle honours: the skies over Texas during the Vietnam conflict) -- and compensation from the Canadian government.

The details of each case are shockingly similar. Tim Hancock of Amnesty International has supplied similar information on Khaled al-Maqtari, a Yemeni man, who was apparently threatened with rape and beaten in chains by his perverted American torturers. Western nations simply assisted the perverts by providing them with pages of questions while their citizens/residents lay in agony, wishing they had never been born.

In the case of Abdullah Almalki, four interrogations by the Canadian "secret service" (its acronym – CSIS – inspires more laughter than fear) preceded his departure from Canada and the collapse of his business and subsequent residence in Malaysia. He and his wife had run an electronic components export business in Ottawa which prompted CSIS's suspicions. Was he sending funds or components to "terrorists" (the quotation marks are, of course, obligatory since CSIS was not worried about the "terrorists" who run the Syrian secret service and who were later to torture Abdullah Almalki on Canada's behalf).

For months, he was held in a secret service hellhole in Damascus and whipped with steel while the Syrians acted upon a Canadian letter to them (dated 4 October 2001) which stated that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police were suggesting that Mr Almalki was linked through association with al-Qa'ida and engaged in activities that posed an "imminent threat" to the public safety and security of Canada. Readers who doubt this outrageous letter to the Syrian dictatorship can check page 400 of the Iacobucci report which was drawn up with government assistance after Almalki's release. The RCMP – the famous Mounties – also sent letters to Canadian government liaison officers in Islamabad, Rome, Delhi, Washington, London, Berlin and Paris, identifying Almalki as an "important member" of al-Qa'ida. For more information, you must read Kerry Pither's brilliant account, Dark Days: The Story of Four Canadians Tortured in the Name of Fighting Terror, which is scandalously unavailable in Britain.

The purpose of setting out these awful accounts is not to piss on Canadians. Canada is a great and real democracy, albeit weighed down with too much political correctness. I once remember an immigration officer at Toronto airport explaining to an Asian visitor that he wasn't to allow himself to be interrogated by the police without a lawyer and that he was free to speak and move wherever he wanted in Canada. The finest immigration guy in the world, I thought to myself. The lads and lasses at the Heathrow immigration desks don't come up to that standard.

No, I don't think Canada as a nation is to blame for all this. But the West is. For it is our public servants in government and our secret service thugs who have been in league with all these perverted men around the world. Indeed, even when Almalki was freed from his Syrian prison, Canadian embassy officials in Damascus would not allow him to stay in their building and ordered him out when the embassy closed at 4pm. One of them reportedly later told Almalki that Canada regularly gave passports to the families of leading Syrian officials. Can this be true?

I do know that the Syrians quite recently complained mightily to the Americans as well as the Canadians. First, the West sent its prisoners to be tortured in Damascus – and then complained that Syria abused human rights! Quite so. Bashar Al-Assad has put a stop to quite a lot of torture in Syria and now that President Obama is sending his cohorts to woo the Syrians, they presumably won't be called on to do America's (or Canada's) dirty work any more.

But I want to know why those complicit in Almalki's torture – the letter writers, the composers of questions – cannot be tried in court. They are, at the least, accomplices to human rights abuses. So are the Brits who went to question tortured men in Guantanamo. Even more so are the American perverts who indulged in their own torture in Afghanistan and Iraq – and yes, I have noted that our dear President Obama is allowing the illegal detention of prisoners at Bagram in Afghanistan to continue. But what else would you expect from a man whose secretary of state, Lady Hillary, far from going to the Palestinians whose homes were going to be destroyed by the Israelis in Jerusalem and denouncing this outrage, said merely that the home demolitions were "unhelpful".

So, in the long term, is torturing prisoners. Abdullah Almalki drove me to Ottawa airport in the snow after our breakfast, admitting that he was still too mentally broken by his months of Syrian torture to find employment. CSIS doesn't follow him any more as he says it used to before he left Canada for Asia and then the the hell of Syria. No one tailed our car. No one says any more that Almalki is guilty. On the other hand, no one will say he is innocent. But there are an awful lot of men in Western governments who should be in the dock. They won't be, of course. And oh yes – just in case you missed it – Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper has just admitted that Canadian troops in Afghanistan are not going to win a military victory there. Just think. All that torture – for nothing.

More from Robert Fisk

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Scapegoats, pawns and patsies
[info]solvoxuno wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 12:34 am (UTC)
"All problems, depressions, wars, disasters, assassinations. All of them were planned, caused, instigated, and implemented by the International Bankers and their attempt to establish a central bank in every country in the world, which they have now done, thanks to corrupt politicians who have been bought and paid for. This is all you need to know about the history of the world." John Fitzgerald Kennedy
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation then deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wakeup homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs." Thomas Jefferson.

These super rich financiers, Rothschilds, Rockerfellers, secret societies such as Bilderberg, organizations such as Trilateral, CFR, World Bank, IMF, WTO; have played respective parts financing, creating and profiteering from war. Through their money control of governments commit Atrocities against humanity and actively embezzle, threaten, extort and are robbing the people of the earth of their homes, wealth and the natural resources of their countries. Furthermore they create boom and bust and are bent on further misery for the majority of the populous to consolidate property wealth and power. Their names must be exposed for they are the worst kind of criminals. This is without doubt absolute truth with damning evidence available, but not publicised.
Re: Scapegoats, pawns and patsies
[info]andre_t wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 07:26 am (UTC)
the US Federal Reserve is privately owned by 12 families, literally a money making machine

A country hostage to its financiers
Re: Scapegoats, pawns and patsies - [info]fakhry - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 01:29 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Scapegoats, pawns and patsies - [info]fakhry - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 10:21 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Scapegoats, pawns and patsies - [info]chanch5 - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 12:49 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Scapegoats, pawns and patsies - [info]fakhry - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 01:24 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Scapegoats, pawns and patsies - [info]virginiata - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 02:32 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Scapegoats, pawns and patsies - [info]fakhry - Sunday, 15 March 2009 at 09:20 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Scapegoats, pawns and patsies - [info]freedommonger - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 10:24 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Scapegoats, pawns and patsies - [info]fakhry - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 03:26 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Scapegoats, pawns and patsies - [info]freedommonger - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 05:16 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Scapegoats, pawns and patsies - [info]fakhry - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 07:46 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Scapegoats, pawns and patsies - [info]illuminatikorp - Wednesday, 29 April 2009 at 09:19 pm (UTC) Expand
So Robert... Lead by example
[info]ancientoneuk wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 12:45 am (UTC)
Why don't you robert talk to your editor and see if you can mount a campaign to get justice for these people led by the Independent?

You enjoy a very special position in the media and there are some big guns out there that would support such a campaign for justice, you would be surprised at who has been angered by this disgusting state of affairs.

One of the only ways forward is empowerment of the people, we can all sit here and look at this article and consider our part done and allow it to be someone else problem, or we can bring back some of the famous British altruistic activism and actually do something about it...

And just think what a media coup and exclusive it would be for the Indy too...
Re: So Robert... Lead by example
[info]boeticia wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 05:18 am (UTC)
Mr. Fisk has already done excellent and commendable work by writing this article. It takes hard work
getting the facts straight - and courage - when the people involved in commiting these injustices are in positions of power. No, ancientoneuk, as a citizen it's for you to start an effective grassroots movement. Nothing like the "power of the people" to make necessary changes in this world.
Re: So Robert... Lead by example - [info]ancientoneuk - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 07:57 am (UTC) Expand
Re: So Robert... Lead by example - [info]fakhry - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 07:56 pm (UTC) Expand
Hey Robert Fisk, why do you never talk of human rights abuses committed by Arab or Muslim countries?
[info]exec_ceo wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 12:54 am (UTC)
But only of the ones elsewhere?

Is it because you actually live in an Arab Muslim country and have 'taken sides' perhaps? I'm just asking.
Re: Hey Robert Fisk, why do you never talk of human rights abuses committed by Arab or Muslim countr
[info]violetsmart wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 01:48 am (UTC)
We are responsible for our own governments. Our criticism must be directed at our own first and foremost to avoid dismal hipocrisy. We have no moral or ethical authority if we don't insist that our principles and laws be upheld by our government.
Torture
[info]jacksonl wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 01:00 am (UTC)
Mr. Fisk, when was torture ever for anything?
You won't hear Rentaghoul, Kamm, Aaronovich, or Cohen
[info]neil_mcgowan wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 01:14 am (UTC)
saying a word against torture, rendition or murder.

These neo-con scum have no principles at all.
[info]thomasth wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 03:12 am (UTC)
Let's face it: our Lords and Masters enjoy the pornographic perversion of torture on helpless, un-guilty, uncharged people. It gives them a sadistic feeling of power; power they lack the confidence to weald responsibly. It continues, as Fisk rightly points out, in the bases of Afghanistan, in particular, and is linked to the anal mass hard porn industry that originates mostly in the USA but is now watched by vast numbers, especially troops in the field. This atavistic reversion from a mental state we imagined our society had finally escaped is shocking, and is meant to be.
torture
[info]tigeriskleesky wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 06:55 am (UTC)
It was again a good piece by Mr. Fisk. There are just too many stories like this one in his previous articles and in his book "The War for Civilizations". Mr. Fisk always insists that his job is to report whats going on so no one can say we didn't know. I think Mr. Fisk is an ideal person to make suggestions to rectify the wrongs done by some and meted by some unfortunate ones. This has been going on for far too long and the intensity just increased in the past years following. Its frustrating to read all this and not being able to do a thing. Something must be done or seen to be done soon. We are all to be blamed for this mess, by participating or not participating in this problem.
Re: torture
[info]fakhry wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 08:48 pm (UTC)
many people signed the letter empty before the accusation reported by police to avoid "torture". many country Jack straw knows this story well well.because the British embassy took high up to Britten.
this torture did help the in war against terror,but the opposite.
'collusion with torturers'
[info]victormc wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 07:29 am (UTC)
Yeah Bobby boy, we know what you think, they are all 'innocents abroad' travelling for the sunshine trying to get a nice tan in Afghanistan and Pakistan (AfPak) on false passports. I know how you feel I do it most weeks when I'm bored with Ottawa or Beirut.
CIA report: Israel will fall in 20 years
[info]giuseppesapone wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 07:51 am (UTC)
And when these racist, murderers and thieves come crawling back, we should tell them to "go to Hell!"

www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=88491§ionid=351020202
Re: CIA report: Israel will fall in 20 years
[info]victormc wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 08:29 am (UTC)
What a weird twilight world you live in - perhaps it's your escape route to a 'better place.' where the 60 or is it 120 virgins still exist.
Re: CIA report: Israel will fall in 20 years - [info]bedebyes - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 09:19 am (UTC) Expand
Re: CIA report: Israel will fall in 20 years - [info]illuminatikorp - Tuesday, 17 March 2009 at 08:39 pm (UTC) Expand
why our (LJ) are hajeked now ?
[info]fakhry wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 08:27 am (UTC)
For whom interest hacked our (LJ) email nowadays ?
timing is the clue to find the hacked !
who killed Dr.kelly is the one who put Zip in our mouth,and hacked the net.!
it is Independence responsibility to find out and procte the freedom of speech ?
Is this the new way to freedom in UK ?

Why,why.why Now ?????
we should ask till this is answered!
western learned from Iraq ! after all !
[info]fakhry wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 08:36 am (UTC)
western went to war in Iraq based on lie,and the aim was to bring decomacy to Iraq,but what hapend was to bring dictatorship to western world,Iraq won the war after hug cost from both sides ?
the criminals are free ?
One disaffected alienated Canadian voter speaks
[info]chuckkw wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 08:46 am (UTC)
I'm a Canadian (immigrated from the UK in 1958), and I usually support the Conservative Party of Canada, of which PM Harper is the leader.

I am going to have to think long and hard about who I will vote for in our next election. Re-elect Stephen Harper? Elect Michael Ignatieff? I expect Ignatieff would be the same sort of lap-dog that Tony Blair was, running our democracy as though the only voters who count are American voters. Or elect Jack Layton, our "looney tunes" lefty?

If Jack Layton is the only leader who will prosecute Canadian born war criminals, if he is the only one who will keep Canada within the Geneva Conventions, I'm going to have to hold my nose and vote for him. Layton will wreck our economy, but our national honour is more important than our economy.
Fisk - a disgrace to his profession
[info]peterbracken wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 09:37 am (UTC)
I feel no personal ill will towards Robert Fisk, but I long ago stopped taking the Independent because I couldn't stomach the ideas he was apt to grandstand in it. Readers of this paper will be familiar with his style and judgements, but they may have forgotten that he was capable of sentiments of this depravity during the trial of Saddam, about which he wrote:

"Watching that face, a dreadful thought occurred. Could it be that this awful man - albeit given less chance to be heard than the Nazis at the first Nuremberg hearings - actually knew less than we thought? Could it be that his apparatchiks and satraps and grovelling generals, even his own sons, kept from this man the iniquities of his regime?" [The alert reader will have detected that Fisk is defending Saddam the way some defend Hitler. He goes on:] "Might it just be possible the price of power was ignorance, the cost of guilt a mere suggestion here and there..."

Could it be...might it be - you can almost hear Fisk straining to break the truth leash, his antenna for anti-Americanism working overtime to find some morsel of comfort amid the palpable justness of the US's pursuit, incarceration and trial of the Madman of Baghdad. Fisk is floating (only floating, you understand) an outrageous idea: perhaps the American's are wrong. Perhaps Saddam is innocent.

This barely disguised apology for Saddam - wrapped in a bogus and high-minded gesture towards fairness - is Fisk through and through. It is journalism at its complicit worst.

The fifth anniversary of the Iraq War saw Fisk tub-thumping again at his nonsensical best:

"It is our presence, our power, our arrogance, our refusal to learn from history and our terror - yes our terror - of Islam that is leading us into the abyss. And until we learn to these these Muslim people alone, our catastrophe in the Middle East will only become graver. There is no connection between Islam and "terror". But there is a connection between our occupation of Muslim lands and "terror". It's not too complicated an equation. And we don't need a public inquiry to get it right."

Only someone blessed with colossal complacency could write something like this. It is estimated that Saddam was responsible for, on average, 29,000 Iraqi deaths every year for 35 years. What sort of annual death toll would it take for Fisk not "to leave these Muslim people alone"? Also, how does one fathom that extra twist to his warped logic that seeks to justify unpardonable acts of terror against innocents as a legitimate response to the West's deposing of Saddam?

Alongside the scandal of the Left's apology for the tyranny and brutality of Stalin, we now have sections of the Left - Fisk prominent among them - exonerating Islamist insurgents for the premeditated murder of Iraqis.

More shameful derelictions of responsible judgement would be hard to find. Fisk truly is a disgrace to his profession.



Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession
[info]victormc wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 10:04 am (UTC)
What a superb summation of Fisk and people of his mindset. What he continually tends to forgets is that it's Muslims who kill and subjugate other Muslims they have very little real effect elsewhere except with his propaganda.
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]freedommonger - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 10:45 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]nairb09 - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 10:29 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]freedommonger - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 10:52 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]fakhry - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 09:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]d_hughes - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 10:48 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]freedommonger - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 10:58 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]nairb09 - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 11:28 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]freedommonger - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 12:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]nairb09 - Sunday, 15 March 2009 at 01:12 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]freedommonger - Sunday, 15 March 2009 at 07:46 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]peterbracken - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 11:28 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]nairb09 - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 12:16 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]freedommonger - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 12:38 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]peterbracken - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 11:50 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]thomasth - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 03:31 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]peterbracken - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 04:22 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]thomasth - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 05:42 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]boeticia - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 04:50 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]tryandcatchmesa - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 07:04 pm (UTC) Expand
Apologist for USUK War Criminals - [info]psmith42 - Monday, 16 March 2009 at 08:56 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]nazcalito - Tuesday, 17 March 2009 at 03:36 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Fisk - a disgrace to his profession - [info]illuminatikorp - Wednesday, 29 April 2009 at 10:03 pm (UTC) Expand
any muslem is prone to Almalkis torture in west as well
[info]fakhry wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 10:02 am (UTC)
Muslims are persecuted in west after 11/9,though there are more questioned than answers about Benn-ladden and Mossadd involved ?


Any one us may face Dr.kelly outcome.to protect the criminals in the high chair !
This remind me with Anne Juli who wrote the book "JUSTICE under Siege" ! see it to understand the worry that Fisk is referring at.

The root of Corruption in the (ME) is the west.
The one who live to learn is the one who can not live longer specialty if had conscious like Dr.Kelly,Fisk,and probably me and you ! who dare to speak out seeing Innocent dieing anywhear in the world.
Anna Juli saying they try all their best to threaded her to keep mouth shut,even to send her coffin so she kept police escort her for 3 years..!
Fuel interest make USA and Israel meet together,Iraq,Afangatsain,Palestine,





Nu World Order?
[info]stickytruth2 wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 10:05 am (UTC)
This problem of torture falls squarely on the shoulders of the Bush & Co, followed by the weak link Blair &Nu Labour wimps. It is obvious America was not winning the wars (Gulf I & II),so the Bush the last president, decided on reconditions flights (torture) in hope to win an illegal war.
When Mr Craig Murry our ambassador in an eastern European country, reported torturing taking place, he was removed from his post on the orders of the American ambassador, so we now know who runs the UK.
We wonder why, some Muslims don't like the West?
Thank God we have this paper and Robert Fisk.
Re: Nu World Order?
[info]nairb09 wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 11:38 am (UTC)
It is not such as "Nu World", remember the Pinochet regime in Chile? This was backed by Britain's Thatcher government. The UK government supported all the disappearances and torturing, even to deny their victims' justice. The West is a very sad place and always has been, Fisk simply shines a torch on this fact.
Re: Nu World Order? - [info]fakhry - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 10:29 pm (UTC) Expand
Don't stop, go straight to jail.
[info]proximaking wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 10:54 am (UTC)
When do the jailings begin? I see no need for trials, they didn't see fit to give their victims any chance to speak.
As Ye Judged Freedommonger.
[info]proximaking wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 11:07 am (UTC)
What was it freedommonger said about "Have you ever considered the distinction between forwards (through time) and backwards thinking? One for you to ponder I suspect." ........ one perhaps for him/her to ponder as clearly he/she has never looked in the mirror. When we can pop back and have a look at him/her and nowhere to hide what will he/she do? Ask the mountains to fall on them and hide him/her? There is I repeat nowhere to hide, past present or future. Maybe, just maybe it is time to grow up, the grown man understands the world he lives in, as I do, ..... do you freedommonger?

http://royaldutchshellplc.com/2008/01/06/crackpot-or-genius-has-a-shell-boffin-stumbled-on-a-scientific-breakthrough/

Will you still be defending their right to enslave you and yours when you do freedommonger?

Material wealth means absolutely nothing as we are to be forced to learn, the money changers are being thrown out of the temple, the temple of the earth and believe it or not the "rich" will have to get real jobs for once in their God forsaken lives, and not a moment too soon,..... for them.
Re: As Ye Judged Freedommonger.
[info]freedommonger wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 12:28 pm (UTC)
proximaking, I read your link.

What is it you think has been discovered at Shell?

Why do you think whatever it is is being suppressed?

What has this got to do with "enslaving" me (or anyone else)?

Have you in fact started from your conclusion and, like a Magpie, hunted only long enough to find a shiny thing to "prove it"?

Yep, looks like it. Backwards thinking!

Is it the case that with todays internet it is possible to find supporting "proof" (sic) for ANY IDEA AT ALL?

Yep.

Oh dear, all that is left is skeptical thinking of your own. Why not try it.

If the US was invading Iraq to stael/control oil, why has it not done so and instead produced a sovereign emancipated state?

Why would the US want/need to control Iraqi oil when it has never bought any Iraq oil in any voilume getting, as it does, 80% of its oil consumption supplied from North and South America and the remainder from Saudi, Africa and a vareity of other places, all queiing up to sell their product at inflated cartel prices to the worlds biggest consumer?

Do you perhaps have "ideas" of producers denying the US the oil it wishes to buy? Well if people stopped supply the US then where would the 20% of global oil production now without a buyer go? Will it stay in the fround? What does that mean for the people of places like Venzuela 90% of whose economy is oil sales and what would it mean for would be dictators like Chavez?

Have you ever REALLY thought about anything ort have you just sought information long enough to reach your emotional goal?

Try reading the Black Swan by Nassim Nicholas Talib. It may change your life. It may save other lives as a result. try it and try applying skeptical thinking to your ideas. I have. Its a challenge I can tell you. But I think its indecent not to even try.

Simlilarly Fisk writing fails utterly to meet the standards of skeptical thinking. Like Bagpuss however, you useful idiots love him.
Re: As Ye Judged Freedommonger. - [info]freedommonger - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 12:46 pm (UTC) Expand
Where is the evidence that Arar was tortured?
[info]canadastan wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 12:19 pm (UTC)
He has no scars, none of the diplomats who visited ever saw any bruising or any evidence of torture and another terrorist testified that he saw him at an Al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan.
Re: Where is the evidence that Arar was tortured?
[info]eve_ntual92 wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 12:42 pm (UTC)
That doesn't matter. He would have given his word just like the 'British resident.' Surely you don't think they would lie?
Re: Where is the evidence that Arar was tortured? - [info]freedommonger - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 12:51 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Where is the evidence that Arar was tortured? - [info]fakhry - Thursday, 19 March 2009 at 09:23 pm (UTC) Expand
Torture: look to Israel
[info]giuseppesapone wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 01:37 pm (UTC)
peterbracken tells us "It is estimated that Saddam was responsible for, on average, 29,000 Iraqi deaths every year for 35 years". Considering Saddam rose to power in 1979 and was deposed in 2003, how is that 35 years? And where is the souce for 29,000 Iraqi deaths a year. This sounds like the kind of arithmetic used to calculate 6 million Jewish dead in the Holocaust.
Israel has been torturing Palestinians for as long as anyone can remember. Torture was introduced by the West in the aftermath of 9/11, when those fifth columnist Israel Firster US Jews conrolled the Bush administration. For example, Alan Dearthofwits is a long proponent of torturing the Goyim. Both the UK under the Israeli agent Blair and Canada which for some reason is in thrall to Israel too is complicit in torture. Maybe a Canadian would like to explain why Canada alone voted against the UN resolution condemning Israel for not allowing adequate humanitarian aid into Gaza.
Re: Torture: look to Israel
[info]asonberg wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 02:14 pm (UTC)
What about your beloved Hamas throwing Fatah members off rooftops a few years ago and all the extra-judicial executions of people suspected of collaborating with Israel? Torture is wrong in all circumstances. There is no excuse. No justification for it. Ever. By anybody. That includes the Israelis too.

For once, guiseppe, why don't you criticise Islamic countries and organisations for torture and human rights abuses? We are waiting.
Re: Torture: look to Israel - [info]fakhry - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 10:40 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Torture: look to Israel - [info]illuminatikorp - Wednesday, 29 April 2009 at 09:59 pm (UTC) Expand
Why?
[info]tim_bee wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 01:44 pm (UTC)
The reason Canada did much of what it did was due to threats by the US to close down the border, which would have devastated the Canadian economy.
Now we do it because Harper agrees with all of this rubbish.
Re: Why?
[info]giuseppesapone wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 02:08 pm (UTC)
Thanks Tim. I visited Canada some years ago and found the people warm hearted and patriotic. It is a pity our leaders are not the same.
Re: Why? - [info]illuminatikorp - Wednesday, 29 April 2009 at 10:10 pm (UTC) Expand
you are a valuable man, robert
[info]s1mples wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 02:05 pm (UTC)
and i humbly offer my greatest gratitude for your lifelong integrity and courage. would that there were but one world leader with your character.
Israeli torturers trained the Americans
[info]giuseppesapone wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 02:39 pm (UTC)
Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb reported on the treatment given to a 23-year old Palestinian held on "administrative detention." The prisoner was "cuffed behind a chair 17 hours a day for 120 days . . . [he] had his head covered with a sack, which was often dipped in urine or feces.

www.counterpunch.org/madsen05102004.html
Re: Israeli torturers trained the Americans
[info]fakhry wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 10:46 pm (UTC)
endless list of USA/Israel Torturers.
THEY TEACH "BASS" THE SAME LIKE USA.
The one who live by the sword will die with it!
I call it equal return...!
Total Asshole
[info]virginiata wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 02:47 pm (UTC)
Fisk seeks to set the mood for his latest tome, by seeking to impress us, by describing how he wolfed down an all-English breakfast ( perhaps he means a full-English breakfast), at the Chateau Laurier Hotel, much beloved of Churchill etc. etc. before describing the various "perverted torturers" around the world. His ridiculous article then informs us that Assad in Syria, had put a stop to "quite a lot of torture", as if the despot deserves to be commended for not torturing as many as he used to !! He possibly doesn`t kill as many as he used to, but does that make him any less of a murderer ?
Re: Total Asshole
[info]boeticia wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 05:07 pm (UTC)
There are a lot of people who would love to take their breakfast in historical surroundings...Mr. Fisk
merely mentioned Churchill because this journalist has a profound sense of history, which is obviously sadly lacking in some of the commentators here.
Re: Total Asshole - [info]virginiata - Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 07:42 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Total Asshole - [info]boeticia - Monday, 16 March 2009 at 01:32 am (UTC) Expand
[info]uanime5 wrote:
Saturday, 14 March 2009 at 02:48 pm (UTC)
How convient that only Binyam Mohamed's penis was cut up. If it was anywhere else he would have to show evidence of his torture. Have any of the people who have claimed into be tortured by Britain or the US ever produced any evidence of being tortured?
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