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Robert Fisk's World: The jury is out on the Iranian model of religion and politics

So what of the famous revolution? Was it a return to the basic values of Shia Islam?

The most nauseous photograph to come out of the Iran tragedy was not the bloodied demonstrators in Tehran, but a Reuters picture of former Iranian Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi, "fighting back tears" in Washington as he declared that Neda Agha Sultan, the young woman shot dead by Ahmadinejad's thugs a week ago, "was now for ever in my pocket". I bet she is, by God! "I have added her to the list of my daughters," the son of the brutal and merciless late Shah, told the world.

Needless to say, the son of the Light of the Aryans did not add the many thousands of equally young and innocent women tortured to death by his father's sadistic secret police to his "list of daughters". Back in 1979, I met a man who had tortured and killed a woman by scorching her on a metal rack over gas burners. His name was Mohamed Sadafi, by profession a weightlifter. "You killed my daughter," the poor girl's father shrieked at Sadafi in front of me. "She was burned all over her flesh until she was paralysed. She was roasted." Sadafi told the man – without explaining why – that the girl had hanged herself after seven months in custody. But "there was not even a single sheet in Evin prison from which she could hang herself", the father replied in fury. Yes there was, Sadafi replied. He had himself seen the Evin laundry bills.

No, I don't think that Reza Shah has put this young woman "in his pocket". But nor would the Shia clergy, which reputedly backed the original Anglo-American coup against Mohammed Mossadeq, the democratically elected leader of Iran in 1953. At that time, a senior Tehran cleric was sent to Qom to persuade the leading Ayatollah of his time, Sayed Mohammad Hossein Boroujerdi, to issue a fatwa, calling for a holy war against the Tudeh party communists to whom Mossadeq was allied and give his support to religion and the throne. A certain Ruhollah Khomeini was rumoured to have urged Boroujerdi to adopt just such a step.

The CIA's own analysis of the overthrow – which, of course, has been recalled with ever increasing enthusiasm by Ahmadinejad and his chums over the past two weeks – includes a telling post-coup interview between Kermit Roosevelt, the CIA boss in Tehran, and Winston Churchill, who was living out his last months as British prime minister (reprinted now, by the way, by Ken Coates's ever intriguing The Spokesman books in Nottingham). "This was a most touching occasion," the CIA report said of the Roosevelt-Churchill meeting.

"The Prime Minister seemed to be in bad shape physically... He had great difficulty in hearing; occasional difficulty in articulating; and apparent difficulty in seeing to his left. In spite of this he could not have been more enthusiastic about the operation. He was good enough to express a wish that he had been "some years" younger and might have served under his (Roosevelt's) command. Our operation had given us a wonderful and unexpected opportunity which might change the whole picture in the Middle East." This was Condoleezza Rice-speak. Remember her "birth-pangs" of a new Middle East, when the Lebanese were being splattered with blood by Israeli bombs in 2006? But Churchill's "whole picture" did indeed change – in 1979.

So what of that famous revolution? Was it really a blossoming return to the basic values of Shia Islam, a return to the golden age of Ali and Hussein, when Islamic rule could never be set up alongside a secular government? This is the narrative that is now laid down in Tehran. This is the story that Ayatollah Khamenei purports to believe in; that Ayatollah Khomeini – whatever his advice to Boroujerdi in 1953 – took Iran back to the purity of Shia Islam's roots, when there was no attempt to separate religious from secular power.

By extraordinary chance, a new volume has just been published by Professor Nader Hashemi of the University of Denver that is probably the most pertinent book to read today about the latest dramatic events in Iran. With the awful obligations of academia, he has entitled his work Islam, Secularism, and Liberal Democracy: Toward a Democratic Theory for Muslim Societies – a real DO NOT READ title – but it is worth every page. Hashemi, I know well; he has a habit of putting visiting speakers through two lectures, three seminars and six interviews within an hour of crossing the Atlantic. This is absolutely true; I am one of his victims.

But here is a chilling Hashemi quotation from Khomeini, while the Ayatollah was in exile in the Iraqi city of Najaf in 1970. "This slogan of the separation of religion and politics and the demand that Islamic scholars not intervene in social and political affairs has been formulated and propagated by the imperialists; it is only the irreligious who repeat them. Were religion and politics separate in the time of the Prophet? Did there exist on one side a group of clerics, and opposite it, a group of politicians and leaders?"

Again, in 1999, Ayatollah Abolghassem Khazali, a tough former member of the Guardian Council, insisted that "when a jurisprudent like Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi" – by chance today a close supporter of Ahmadinejad with a strong desire to become Supreme Leader after Khamenei – "says something, you should say 'I shall listen and I shall obey'. If there is a danger, it is coming from the slogan of 'civil society's' and now the situation has reached the point when the existence of God is being debated at universities".

No wonder Tehran University was plundered and abused by the regime's Basij militia last week. No wonder Mir-Hossein Mousavi's "secular" imprint is now so dangerous to the regime. But as Hashemi observes – and here is the real shaky foundation of the Iranian regime – "There is a near consensus that Ayatollah Khomeini's doctrine of the 'rule of the Islamic jurist' marked a significant break with Shia tradition in terms of the relationship between religion and politics. Senior ayatollahs within the Shia world (including in Iran at the time) strongly objected to Khomeini's political doctrine because it was considered an innovation and a radical break with the historical quietist role played by the clergy in political society."

So there you have it. Khomeini invented the so-called "velayat-e faqih" (rule of the Supreme Leader); the Islamic Republic was never conceived of in Islamic history. It's a try-out, an experiment that may or may not continue. The past two weeks suggest it needs a lot of work to survive.

Meanwhile, let's remember what Mossadeq said 46 years ago: "No nation goes anywhere under the shadow of dictatorship."

More from Robert Fisk

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I don't think the jury is out at all, as far as you are concerned, Mr Fisk
[info]walterwall wrote:
Sunday, 28 June 2009 at 12:37 pm (UTC)
I think this is a pretty disgusting article, too. Having spent the last couple of weeks stoking the furnaces of the Western-inspired "green revolution", Robert has to reestablish his credentials by having a pop at the shah's son.
He still does not see fit to disclose his hero Moussavi's pivotal role in the Iran-contra negotiations with such fine upstanding men as Oliver North and John Poindexter, nor the fact that under Moussavi's premiership during the Iran-Iraq war, children as young as eight years old were being used to clear mines, roped together in case their courage deserted them.
This whole episode has made me wonder how independent the Independent actually is. It does seem to parrot the western propaganda uncritically. And any respect I had for Robert Fisk has gone.
The jury is out
[info]sparky_45 wrote:
Sunday, 28 June 2009 at 05:01 pm (UTC)
Good article Robert.

You are indeed the most objective journalist on issues concerning the Middle-East.
I would always take what most other western journalists, from the BBC and CNN say with a large pinch of salt. Its always so easy to spot where their vested interests lie. Robert Fisk on the other hand tells the story with historical irony and never the -good guys, bad guys- rubbish we have become so accustomed to from mainstream media.

John.
[info]high5pirit wrote:
Sunday, 28 June 2009 at 09:04 pm (UTC)
yeah
Arab potiticians are traitors work to USA who works as slaves for Zionist
[info]high5pirit wrote:
Sunday, 28 June 2009 at 09:25 pm (UTC)
USA + west =working as slaves in Zionist-Christianity,to revenge from Muslims over history.
Arab politicians are traitors to USA/west who in turn are slaves to bankers(Zionist).
USA /west are hypocritical in dealing with Iran issue;in one hand they want "democracy" in Iran,but act blind eye in Egypt;PA(Abass) ;Pakistan,Afghanistan,even in USA/west they use two rules based on racist/prejudice.
Abass in Palestine is illegal leader since 6 months,Hosni was leader in Egypt for 30 years and his son is coming to take over when hosni dies.
Iraq war was justified by WMD or democracy in Iraq which was total lie,country is ended with mass destruction.
West are used by Zionist of USA to unstable Iran,long time ago Cawen said in his book that UN chiefs of WOMD in Iraq sent millions of text massages & $ to opposition to do what they did,Israel and Obama had done the same rule to unstablise Iran since they can not attack it.
UAE had long time investment for (oil-weapon deal),why was that ??
Zionist are acted through mediators;see history as evidence
inaccuracies
[info]fisky58 wrote:
Sunday, 28 June 2009 at 11:42 pm (UTC)
I am suprised at the number of inaccuracies in this article, surely Mr Fisk should know better.

Khomeini was not an adviser to Boroujerdi his views regarding politics were opposite, it was only after Boroujerdi passed away than Khomeini could disseminate his views in the Hawzas.

Politics and religion have always been together in Shia Islam (as well as Sunni Islam). The difference in opinion is can a legitimate Islamic government be established in the absence of Imam Mahdi. Boroujerdi (like Khoei) felt it couldn't and hence all governments were illegitimate and the clergy should have nothing to do with them. Khomeini (and others) felt that its the duty of the mujtahids to struggle to establish just government in the absence of Imam Mahdi.

Mossadeq could not have succeeded without support from the clergy, lead my Ayatullah Kashani. That is why the CIA orchestrated the burning of mosques and blaming it on the communists in order to cause a split in the Mossadeq camp.

Also Mousavi is no more a seculaist than Ahmadinejad is.
Fisk
[info]gerryhiles wrote:
Monday, 29 June 2009 at 09:15 am (UTC)
"No matter what king may reign, I'll still be the Vicar of Bray sir."

Fisk slips and slides, depending on which way the wind is blowing.

After having come out full force against Hezbollah, for instance, when it was no longer tenable that Hezbollah caused the Israeli devastation of Lebanon, he made placating gestures and made feeble shots against Israel and the US, whilst never saying that the onslaught against Lebanon was unjustified.

I don't recall him ever condemning the onslaught on Gaza. He might have, but only after he saw which way the wind was blowing I suspect.

And now he is hedging his bets with Iran. No way that, however it turns out, Fisk will ever be out of a job as a journalist ... heck he got an interview with Osama bin Laden, got guarantees of safety, achieved his purpose, then distorted everything.
RE: Arab potiticians are traitors work to USA who works as slaves for Zionist - HELLO, MODERATOR????
[info]joeny wrote:
Monday, 29 June 2009 at 05:30 pm (UTC)
Is there actually a moderator looking at this rabid, racist world-wide Jewish conspiracy hate-speak?

"USA + west =working as slaves in Zionist-Christianity,to revenge from Muslims over history.
Arab politicians are traitors to USA/west who in turn are slaves to bankers(Zionist)."


Hello ??? Is there actually a moderator out there ???
If so, what exactly DO you moderate ???

The Independent give this start warning to all would-be posters:
"Offensive or abusive comments will be removed and your IP logged and may be used to prevent further submission."

Are the above racist comments not offensive, not abusive ???
Re: Arab potiticians are traitors work to USA who works as slaves for Zionist - HELLO, MODERATOR????
[info]goatbucket wrote:
Tuesday, 30 June 2009 at 04:26 pm (UTC)
Surely you can make a better point than this?

Oh, no, of course you can't. Cry for the moderator, because you have nothing else to say...
Re: Arab potiticians are traitors work to USA who works as slaves for Zionist - HELLO, MODERATOR????
[info]adam_y wrote:
Tuesday, 30 June 2009 at 04:57 pm (UTC)
As Zionism is a political ideology as is Islamism, it isn't racist.

"USA + west =working as slaves in Jewish-Christianity,to revenge from Muslims over history.
Arab politicians are traitors to USA/west who in turn are slaves to bankers(Jewish."

Now that would be racist!
Re: Arab politicians are traitors work to USA who works as slaves for Zionist - HELLO, MODERATOR????
[info]holysaints wrote:
Thursday, 2 July 2009 at 08:04 pm (UTC)
Zionist is ideology,Islam is religion."highspirit" did not say Jewish-christianity,but Zionist-christianity,which is well know group over 50million in USA(,Even christians do criticize them.)they believe that Jesus will come when the temple is built in jerusalem;by that time Jews will convert to christianity;which is not true,Christians do not agree that the temple should be built since Jesus said all the stones of the temple will never be built again.so this is betraying Jesus prophecy.
(info)adam should read the true bible.
The first (Zionist)is failing as we have seen,Prof,Popa allen said so as well....!it is self destructive ideology.
Israel asking for Jews country, the Ortho-jews disagree and say we should not have a state of Israel.
I guess she/he means political USA/West/ not people .
Goatbukel : if you see Zionist behaving in "ISRAEL",Iraq,Iran,you will understand it.Mediators are Spy creating unstable region to divide and rule the world...wait and see...what money will do to the world...
Money is a very critical issue that has been used to privatize the institutions by the tax payers money and the tax payers have to agree on this by being threat to lose their jobs if they protest against.

Re: Arab potiticians are traitors work to USA who works as slaves for Zionist - HELLO, MODERATOR????
[info]holysaints wrote:
Thursday, 2 July 2009 at 08:21 pm (UTC)
To [info] adam: Islam allows you to be Muslim,Zionist is only for Jews,can you be Jewish or zionist ?
if you are Gentile are you allowed to be either? Prof.Norman in USA and prof.popa in Haifa University are not allowed to criticize Zionist though both are Jews!both lost their job !
Israel is democratic isn't it?
Re: Arab potiticians are traitors work to USA who works as slaves for Zionist - HELLO, MODERATOR????
[info]juve_girl wrote:
Tuesday, 25 August 2009 at 08:09 pm (UTC)
Actually, there are zionist Christians. Seriously. Not that I'm one of them.
Re: Arab potiticians are traitors work to USA who works as slaves for Zionist - HELLO, MODERATOR????
[info]holysaints wrote:
Thursday, 2 July 2009 at 08:39 pm (UTC)
The history of zionist was clearly shown and proved by Hari Johann by hinting to Israel while the massacre of 500 children in Gaza; Hari was reminding the readers that Prophet Mohammad killed all the village because they did not follow him.. What kind of twisting facts did hari do? Provoking hatred by selecting a line of result of betraying without telling the true story just because he does not respect the religious people .. What do you call this action? This is not just racist, it is a hatred provoking.. This kind of people should not be trusted for his way of twisting facts and selecting reactions depending on his own fancy.
There is a different viewpoint by those who are Muslims
[info]r1chardpearce wrote:
Monday, 29 June 2009 at 08:09 pm (UTC)
Although many consider a seperation between Church and State a necessary part of democracy (although they never quite seem to get around to going all the way with that, given the various oaths and invocations to God in government), it turns out that those of the Muslim faith by and large do not.

Indeed, if Gallup (the well-known polling organisation) is to be believed, they want freedom of speech and at least some form of Sharia law (and this goes for both women and men), and while they want political freedom, they also want religion to play a roll in government.

There are all sorts of interesting examples where what some think is bad, others think is good.
Nice work, Robert...
[info]fcbarca wrote:
Tuesday, 30 June 2009 at 05:32 pm (UTC)
Once again, brilliant take...I too was sickened by the youtube vids of Reza 'crying'...Exactly what are his qualifications or significance to modern Iran, today?...Zero
Heykel on Iran Election
[info]ahmedfisk wrote:
Wednesday, 1 July 2009 at 01:02 am (UTC)
Mr Fisk

Please have a look on the opinions of who you called one of the greatest Egyptians in the history!!!!

http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6901812B-D362-4962-AACF-37DE7C64C2A1.htm

Outrageous!!
The jury is out
[info]p13j wrote:
Wednesday, 1 July 2009 at 10:57 pm (UTC)
Iranians should keep their profile a bit lower in front of the world. They should learn more and fight less. They should talk less and work more. Something happened in Iran that no news agency reported. From a century ago one could travel by train from London Victoria station to Saigon except for the part in Iran. Many sections gradually were built. The last section from Bam to Zahedan 350 miles were finished three weeks ago when people were shouting in streets of Tehran. Now, in theory you can get in the train in London and get it off in Saigon city. For the roots of these quarrels please visit http://rahbarekherad.blogspot.com/ in Faarssee language.
Hi fisk
[info]holysaints wrote:
Thursday, 2 July 2009 at 07:04 pm (UTC)
it's just testing ... Hello everybody
Comment on the protestors
[info]holysaints wrote:
Thursday, 2 July 2009 at 08:41 pm (UTC)
Zionist is ideology,Islam is religion."highspirit" did not say Jewish-christianity,but Zionist-christianity,which is well know group over 50million in USA(,Even christians do criticize them.)they believe that Jesus will come when the temple is built in jerusalem;by that time Jews will convert to christianity;which is not true,Christians do not agree that the temple should be built since Jesus said all the stones of the temple will never be built again.so this is betraying Jesus prophecy.
(info)adam should read the true bible.
The first (Zionist)is failing as we have seen,Prof,Popa allen said so as well....!it is self destructive ideology.
Israel asking for Jews country, the Ortho-jews disagree and say we should not have a state of Israel.
I guess she/he means political USA/West/ not people .
Goatbukel : if you see Zionist behaving in "ISRAEL",Iraq,Iran,you will understand it.Mediators are Spy creating unstable region to divide and rule the world...wait and see...what money will do to the world...
Money is a very critical issue that has been used to privatize the institutions by the tax payers money and the tax payers have to agree on this by being threat to lose their jobs if they protest against.
[info]holysaints wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 09:16 am (UTC)
Aynoon knows how to provake the poeple in such a time ,where two are waiting to win the election !
Middle east will be provoked by Zionist ,they had ready plan to start it when the time allow.
Zionist play rehearsal before they act.
Aynoon in Irseal are ready to star civilian war in Jordan,between Palestinians and Jordanians,at the time Israel transferring Palestinian away from Palestine.
wait and see !
[info]holysaints wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 09:32 am (UTC)
Aynoon knows how to provake the poeple in such a time ,where two are waiting to win the election !
Middle east will be provoked by Zionist ,they had ready plan to start it when the time allow.
Zionist play rehearsal before they act.
Aynoon in Irseal are ready to star civilian war in Jordan,between Palestinians and Jordanians,at the time Israel transferring Palestinian away from Palestine.
wait and see !
[info]holysaints wrote:
Friday, 3 July 2009 at 06:18 pm (UTC)
Fisk say :"meanwhile, let's remember what Mossadeq said 46 years ago: "No nation goes anywhere under the shadow of dictatorship."

Is what UK doing in Privatization of institution by asking the people working under this institution to chose between agreeing privatization or leave the job ? is dot dictatorship ????
I bite that you can reply !
Robert Fisk Sadafi
[info]jaavaad wrote:
Saturday, 4 July 2009 at 05:27 pm (UTC)
In 1979 (the year of Islamic brutal occupation of Iran) and after the Guadalope meeting in which they
arranged the regim change plan for the poor people of Iran ( mainly designed by Great Britain and other European allies) journalists like Robert Fisk were widely used. I don't konw how he saw the father of that poor girl because Fisk after being kicke by Murdoch was living in Beirut from 1976 to 1988, but we assume it as a true story that he heard a father talking with Sadafi.
1- The writer did not mention why the girl was arrested and on fact basis what was the real story. Consider that at those days(1979) Iwas a young man of 29 years and the islamic take over happened 2 years after my graduation and at the same time I was not pro royalist person so I dubt about it .
3-Assum the story quit true as Fisk says, this sort of sadistic behaviour can be seen in USA and European country and it is an exception not a rule.
4- How do you link it to H.M King Mohammad Reza Pahlavi who later admited that there were some unjusties and asked the people to negotiate and solve it .
5- And finally , how you can connect that to King Reza Pahlavi who has been leaving in US since 1979 and has not any involvement in those things.
Any how I consider this article as a rubish disgusting article which is based on no reasonable fact.

Javad
Re: Robert Fisk Sadafi
[info]juve_girl wrote:
Tuesday, 25 August 2009 at 08:20 pm (UTC)
Just with regards to your point about the possibility of Mr. Fisk meeting that poor girl's father, perhaps your facts regarding Mr. Fisk's living arrangements are correct (I've no real desire to double check) but that does not mean the man didn't travel outside of Beirut. Journalists travel; that's what they do.

Moreover, I don't think it matters why the girl was arrested: What crime do you suppose burning a girl alive to the point of paralysis is a fitting punishment?

It is true that this type of behaviour happens outside of the Islamic world, and I am not a person to see Muslims as monsters, however, it is not the "rule" as you suggest, that such punishments get meted out in the west. Further, there is tremendous amounts of evidence that these types of punishments were and are indeed popular in the middle east.

I'm not so certain that the King was directly involved, however, simply living outside of the country does not mean he cannot be involved. People in powerful positions can pull strings, they have supporters and detractors who can act for and against them. Admitting to injustice does not exculpate one from guilt.

While I respect your "up close" view of this matter, I disagree that this article is "rubbish" and "disgusting".
This becomes harder to take
[info]fredscribe1 wrote:
Sunday, 5 July 2009 at 04:09 pm (UTC)
"Referring to his personal background, as the son of Jewish refugees from Poland, he said: "My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town. A German soldier shot her dead in her bed. My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza." So spoke MP Sir Gerald Kaufman in Parliament, and I quote from JTA, 'Global News Service of the Jewish People. He was speaking in January of this year. On Gaza, he went on: "The spokeswoman for the Israeli army, Major Leibovich, was asked about the Israeli killing of, at that time, 800 Palestinians. The total is now 1,000. She replied instantly that '500 of them were militants'. That was the reply of a Nazi. I suppose the Jews fighting for their lives in the Warsaw ghetto could have been dismissed as militants." Now I suppose there are one or two commentators above who would feel uncomfortable with the eminent MP's remarks. But how could they condemn him? By his own admission, he was brought up as a Jew and a Zionist. By what law would those who will not tolerate criticism of Israel judge upon him? According to his parliamentary statement, (see YouTube, for those who wish not to remain deaf and blind) he has friends and family in Israel and even those who fought for Israel. He has considerable courage, great humanity and honesty. And we can guess that there are those who resent such things when it comes to dealing with Israeli actions against Palestinians. While they are about it, let the commentators above who do not want Israeli criticism to be aired say what they intend to do about the many young Israelis, equally courageous and humanitarian, who refused to serve in the Israeli Army to participate in the last the murderous attack on Gaza. Of the infamous T-shirts, let Associated Press tell the story: "JERUSALEM - Israeli soldiers wore T-shirts with a pregnant woman in cross-hairs and the slogan "1 Shot 2 Kills," adding to a growing furor in the country over allegations of misconduct by troops during the Gaza war. "The smaller they are, the harder it is," says another shirt showing a child in a rifle sight. Soldiers wore the shirts to mark the end of basic training and other military courses and they were first reported by the Haaretz daily . . ." Rightly, the Israel Army condemned the wearing of these obscenities. But let those who would grow angry at criticism of Israeli actions against the Palestinians put aside their self-righteousness. The moral high ground has shifted.


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