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Renouncing Islamism: To the brink and back again

A generation of British Islamists have been trained in Afghanistan to fight a global jihad. But now some of those would-be extremists have had a change of heart. Johann Hari finds out what made them give up the fight

British muslim Maajid Nawaz is the country's most famous former Islamist fanatic

Jonathan Evans

British muslim Maajid Nawaz is the country's most famous former Islamist fanatic

Ever since I started meeting jihadis, I have been struck by one thing – their Britishness. I am from the East End of London, and at some point in the past decade I became used to hearing a hoarse and angry whisper of jihadism on the streets where I live. Bearded young men stand outside the library calling for "The Rule of God" and "Death to Democracy".

In the mosques across the city, I hear a fringe of young men talk dreamily of flocking to Afghanistan to "resist". Yet this whisper never has an immigrant accent. It shares my pronunciations, my cultural references, and my national anthem. Beneath the beards and the burqas, there is an English voice.

The East End is a cramped grey maze of council estates, squashed between the glistening palaces of the City to one side and the glass towers of Docklands to the other. You can feel the financial elites staring across at each other, indifferent to this concrete lump of poverty dumped in-between by the forgotten tides of history. This place has always been the swirling first stop for immigrants to this country like my father – a place where new arrivals can huddle together as they adjust to the cold rain and lukewarm liberalism of Britain.

The Muslims who arrive here every day from Bangladesh, or India, or Somalia say they find the presence of British Islamists bizarre. They have come here to work and raise their children in stability and escape people like them. No: these Islamists are British-born. They make up 7 per cent of the British Muslim population, according to a Populous poll (with the other 93 percent of Muslims disagreeing). Ever since the 7/7 suicide bombings, carried out by young Englishmen against London, the British have been squinting at this minority of the minority and trying to figure out how we incubated a very English jihadism.

But every attempt I have made up to now to get into their heads – including talking to Islamists for weeks at their most notorious London hub, Finsbury Park mosque, immediately after 9/11 – left me feeling like a journalistic failure. These young men speak to outsiders in a dense and impenetrable code of Koranic quotes and surly jibes at both the foreign policy crimes of our Government and the freedom of women and gays. Any attempt to dig into their psychology – to ask honestly how this swirl of thoughts led them to believe suicide bombing their own city is right – is always met with a resistant sneer, and yet more opaque recitations from the Koran. Their message is simple: we don't do psychology or sociology. We do Allah, and Allah alone. Why do you have this particular reading of the Koran, when most Muslims don't? Because we are right, and they are infidel. Full stop. It was an investigatory dead end.

But then, a year ago, I began to hear about a fragile new movement that could just hold the answers we journalists have failed to find up to now. A wave of young British Islamists who trained to fight – who cheered as their friends bombed this country – have recanted. Now they are using everything they learned on the inside, to stop the jihad.

Seventeen former radical Islamists have "come out" in the past 12 months and have begun to fight back. Would they be able to tell me the reasons that pulled them into jihadism, and out again? Could they be the key to understanding – and defusing – Western jihadism? I have spent three months exploring their world and befriending their leading figures. Their story sprawls from forgotten English seaside towns to the jails of Egypt's dictatorship and the icy mountains of Afghanistan – and back again.

I. The Imam

My journey began when, sitting in one of the grotty greasy spoon cafés that fill the East End, I heard a young woman in hijab mention that the imam of one of the local mosques was a jihadi who had fought in Afghanistan, but is now facing death threats from the very men he once fought alongside. His "crime"? To renounce his past and call for "a secular Islam".

After a series of phone calls, Usama Hassan cautiously agrees to talk. I meet him outside his little mosque in Leyton. It sits in the middle of a run-down sprawl of pound stores ("Everything only £1!!!"), halal kebab shops, and boarded-up windows at the edge of the East End.

Usama is a big, broad bear of a man in a black blazer and wire-rimmed glasses. He greets me with a hefty handshake; he has a rolled-up newspaper under his arm. He takes me upstairs to a pale-green prayer room. This building was once a factory, then a cinema; now, with Saudi money, it is a Wahabi mosque. Men are kneeling silently towards Mecca, rising and bending in reverential waves. "On Fridays, there are Islamists who stand outside and warn worshippers that their prayers won't count if they are led by me," he says as we squat in the corner, "because I'm supposedly an apostate. A fake imam." He looks away. "I get phone calls late at night. Threats. It's painful. You see, I was like them once."

And so Usama begins to tell me his story. He arrived in Tottenham in North London in the mid- 1970s, when he was five years old. His Pakistani father was sent here by the Saudi Ministry of Religious Affairs, which aims to spread its puritan desert strain of Islam to every nation. His family led a locked-down life, trying to adhere to Saudi principles in a semi-detached house in the English suburbs. "We weren't allowed music or TV or any contact with the opposite sex," he says. "We were very sheltered. I didn't go out a great deal." By the age of 10, he had memorised every word of the Koran in its original Arabic.

He had a strong sense of the Britain beyond his walls – the Britain where I was growing up – as a hostile, violent place. "You have to understand – it was the time of the Tottenham riots. It felt violent in the streets," he says. "I got used to expecting white people to use the Paki word. We used to have a fear of skinheads the whole time."

But Usama was offered a scholarship to the heart of the English elite – the City of London Boys' School, where he could practice cricket at Lord's. He bonded with the Jews at the school as outsiders and supporters of Tottenham Hotspur football team. He still speaks like the public schoolboy he was – in long, confident sentences.

Some berobed men are staring at us, so he takes me down to the mosque's office. "At that time, being a Muslim meant being an Islamist. It was taken for granted," he says. So when he was 13, he joined an Islamic fundamentalist organisation called Jimas. At big sociable conferences every weekend, they were told: you don't feel at home in Britain, but you can't go "home" to a country you have never visited. So we have a third identity for you – a pan-national Islamism that knows no boundaries and can envelop you entirely.

It sounds familiar. This is the identity I hear shouted by young Islamists throughout the East End: I might sound like you, but I am nothing like you. I am Other. I belong elsewhere – in a place that does not yet exist, but that I will create, with my fists and my fury.

Jimas told their members they were part of a persecuted billion, being blown up and locked down across the world. "It was a bit like a gang," he says. "And we had a strong sense of being under siege. It was all a conspiracy against Islam, and we were the guardians of Islam. That's how we saw ourselves ... A lot of my friends would wear the army boots, and carry knives." I realise now that for a nebbish intellectual boy, it must have felt intoxicating to be told he was part of a military movement that would inevitably conquer history.

For his summer vacation in 1990 – as a break from studying physics at Cambridge University – he went to wage jihad on the battlefields of Afghanistan. He arrived with two friends from Jimas at an Arab-run training camp in the mountains of Kunar in Eastern Afghanistan. It was a sparse collection of tents and weapons left behind by the CIA in the snow and blood. They spent the days running up and down mountains learning how to fire Kalashnikovs and rocket launchers. "When you fire a Kalashnikov, it echoes all around the mountain," he says. "After this boring life, you feel the adrenaline pumping."

The Arab fighters wore four layers of clothes and still shivered. They had never seen snow before, so every now and then, they would lay down their weapons to have a long, gleeful snow-fight. Once they had all learned how to kill, they were taken to the front line to shell the communist hold-outs. "One of the shells landed very close to us, about 100ft away." He fired in retaliation. "I hope we never killed anybody," he says quickly.

Usama tells his story fluently and fast, and rides over these difficult moments – a killing – like a speed-bump. He thought an earthly paradise would rise from the rubble he was creating – and remake the world in its image. "The expectation was that Afghanistan would become this dream Islamic state," he adds, "which would then spread all over the world." He returned to Cambridge University determined to convert as many of his fellow Muslim students as possible to Wahabism. "It was relatively easy to persuade them," he says. "People were looking for group identity. They were very confused: what does it mean to live as a Muslim in society like this? We had easy answers. Go back to the original sources, and [follow it] literally."

At the centre of this vision was the need to rebuild the caliphate – the Islamic state under sharia law persisted from the time of Mohamed until 1924. "It was a very dreamy, romantic idea," he says. "If anybody asked questions about how it would work, we would just say – the people that will make it happen will be so saintly, they will make the right decisions." It was the old promise of the revolutionary down the ages: there would be a single revolutionary heave in which all political conflict would dissolve forever, and a conflict-free paradise would be born.

Usama's job was to persuade people to go to fight in Afghanistan and, from the mid-1990s, Bosnia. He was one of the best – and he says, again very fast, that one of his successes was to radicalise Omar Sheikh, the man now on death row in Pakistan for beheading Daniel Pearl. "I set him off on his path to Jihad," he says. He looks a little excited, and a little appalled. The first thing he remembers about Sheikh – who he met at a Jimas study circle – is the fresh lemonade he made in his university rooms. "It was delicious. And we drank and drank. My first impression of him was that he was a clean-shaven, well-educated British public schoolboy. A lovely bloke."

Sheikh was furious about the massacres of Muslims in Bosnia, and demanded the study group lay down their Koranic debates and act. Usama told him: "If you're really serious, you can go and fight. I know people who have gone and fought. I can introduce you to them." And so his journey to torturing and murdering a Jewish journalist – simply because he was a Jew – began.

Usama doesn't want to talk about him any more: he changes the subject, and I have to bring him back to it. "Nothing is proved against him. He's fighting extradition," he says, after a long pause. "But ... " He has an awkward smile. An embarrassed smile. He quickly carries on speaking, ushering us away from Daniel Pearl.

People come in and out of the mosque office, and Usama lowers his voice a little. He says that as he was persuading young men to go and kill, he noticed something disconcerting: the Afghan mujahedin he had fought for were not building a paradise on earth after all. Instead, they were merrily slaying each other. "This great, glorious Islamic revolution – it didn't happen, at all ... they just killed each other."

As he watched the news of the Luxor massacre in Egypt or Hamas suicide-bombings of pizzerias in Tel Aviv, "It just became more and more difficult to justify that." He found himself thinking about the Jewish friends he had made at school. "They were just like me – human beings. And we had a lot in common. The dietary laws, and the identity issues, and the fear of racism." As he heard the growing Islamist chants at demonstrations – "The Jews are the enemy of God," they yelled – something, he says, began to sag inside him.

The stifled language Usama is using to describe his past reminds me of a recovering alcoholic trying to piece together his fragmented memories and understand who he was. When he talks about anti-Semitism, he is clearly ashamed; he giggles almost randomly, looks away, and looks back at me with a puckered, disgusted look.

We have talked enough; we arrange to meet again. The second time I see him, in a café, he seems more guarded, as if he revealed too much. He shifts the conversation onto theology – the area where, I discover, every ex-jihadi feels happiest. He says the 7/7 bombings detonated a theological bomb in his mind: "How could this be justified? I began to wonder if parts of the Koran are actually metaphor, and parts of the Koran were actually just revealed for their time: seventh-century Arabia."

Once the foundation stone of literalism was broken, he had to remake the concepts that had led him to Islamism one-by-one. "Jihad has many levels in Islam – you have the internal struggle to be the best person you can be. But all we had been taught is military jihad. Today I regard any kind of campaigning for truth, for justice, as a type of Jihad." He signed up to the pacifist Movement for the Abolition of War. He redefined martyrdom as anybody who died in an honourable cause. "There were martyrs on 9/11," he says. "They were the firefighters – not the hijackers."

He says he found himself making arguments he once thought unthinkable – like arguing that women should be allowed to show their hair in public. Jihadi websites run by his old friends started to declare him an apostate, a crime that under their interpretation of sharia is punishable by death.

There have been demands that he should be ousted from the mosque, but his father is its founder and chief imam, so he is protected for now. He says – leaning forward, his voice losing its public school composure – that the threats have only made him more sure of the need for reform. He has started to call for Muslims to abandon the "medieval interpretation of the sharia" that calls for the killing of apostates and homosexuals. He has said there should be a two-state solution in the Middle East. He has reached the conclusion that evolution is "a scientific fact".

And for the first time in his life, Usama has begun to allow himself to listen to music. "I was taught to believe it shouldn't be allowed. But now, I listen on the car radio." I ask him what music he likes, and he lets out a high-pitched giggle. "You'll get me killed!" he says. "Everything in the charts." He gives me some names, but then calls later and asks me not to print them: "That would be a step too far."

As the threats against him rattle across the internet, I like to think of this as my last image of Usama – a 39-year-old man slowly slipping off the Puritan chains in which he has been bound and finally, in his fourth decade, beginning to dance, as he is circled by the angry ghosts of his younger self.

II. The Prisoner

The most famous former Islamist fanatic in Britain is Maajid Nawaz – a high-cheekboned 31-year-old who walks with a self-confident strut. I make an appointment with him through his personal assistant, and he strides into the hotel lobby where we have arranged to meet in an immaculate and expensive suit. He seems to blend perfectly into the multi-ethnic overclass who use expensive hotels like this as their base; I have to remind myself with a jolt that, not so long ago, he was caught up in a murder in London, helped to plot a coup in nuclear-tipped Pakistan, and served three years in the most notorious prison in Egypt.

Maajid begins to tell me his story as if he is delivering a PowerPoint presentation. He has offered it before, and he will offer it again; it is his job now. He has distilled it into a script. When I try to poke beneath it with questions, he seems irritated, and returns to the comfortable form of words he has established as soon as he can.

His journey towards Islamism began, he says, at the sandy edge of Essex, in the dilapidated coastal town of Southend-on-Sea. It is an old, elegant Victorian resort town drooping under a century of disrepair, reduced to a smattering of tatty arcades and a long, neglected pier that reaches into a filthy sea. Maajid's parents were mildly prosperous first-generation immigrants from Pakistan. "My upbringing was completely liberal from the start," he says. "In fact, I didn't even have a Muslim identity." He went to mosque only once, when he was 11, and an imam hit him with a stick for speaking too loudly.

Asian families were a rarity there in the 1980s, but he had a large group of white friends and felt no different to them. Yet when Maajid turned 14, a strange political shift was taking place in Southend. It began – for him, at least – one evening when Maajid, his brother and his friends were at the funfair, leaping on and off the rides and eating candy floss. A group of young skinheads spotted them and started making Nazi salutes and shouting "Seig Heil".

Maajid and his mates "ran the hell out of there", but a white van pulled up and seven skinheads piled out, wielding machetes. They cornered Maajid and one of his white friends. To his astonishment, they turned to the friend and stabbed him repeatedly with a carving knife, shrieking: "Traitor! Traitor! Race traitor!" They drove off, leaving Maajid covered in his friend's blood.

The story of what happened next is buried in yellowing cuts from the local newspapers. A pack of unemployed young men who had been kicking around on Southend's beaches had joined the Neo-Nazi group Combat 18, named after Adolf Hitler's initials: A is "1" in the alphabet, H is "8". They targeted Maajid's friends one by one for befriending a "Paki". Over the next two years, three of his friends were stabbed, and one was smashed up with a hammer. Maajid began to distance himself from his white friends, out of guilt. He drifted instead towards a group of young black people who were also being terrorised by Combat 18. They would meet at house parties and marinate themselves in hip-hop, Public Enemy, and cannabis fumes. He says: "Feeling totally rejected by mainstream society, we were looking for an alternative identity, and we found the perfect, cool, fashionable identity through listening to hip-hop and speeches by Malcolm X."

One day, his brother came home bearing a sheath of leaflets saying Muslims were being massacred all over the world, from India to Bosnia to Southend. He had stumbled on a stall in the High Street manned by a group called Hizb ut-Tahrir (HT). They said he would never be accepted in irreparably corrupt, decadent and racist Britain: Combat 18 were the snarl hidden behind every net curtain. Western society was merely a purgatory for Muslims, and the only escape could be to migrate to a renewed and perfect caliphate somewhere in Arabia. He joined up that day.

Maajid climbed the ranks of HT fast, because – with his easy eloquence – he was especially good at recruiting new members. After a year, they sent him to live in London and conquer a sixth form college. Newham College is a sprawling glass-and-concrete school for 16- to 19-year-olds in the most depressed slab of London. There, Maajid found himself in a majority-Muslim environment for the first time. "I was like somebody who has been craving chocolate for a long time who ends up in Belgium. I thought: these are my people. I knew exactly how to manipulate their grievances. And I did it. We took over that college."

We are served tea by the kind of effusive waitress who works in high-end London hotels. Maajid does not acknowledge her. He says it was "unbelievably easy" to recruit young Muslims to Islamism at that time. He would start with lectures that "broke down the concepts they had been told they should hold dear – like freedom and democracy", he says. It was only in the second or third talk, once humanism lay in rhetorical rubble, that he would announce: "God is in a better position to set those limits than you are, because you'd always contradict yourself, being an imperfect human." So then he would announce: "Let me tell you what God says."

When Maajid enrolled, there were hardly any girls wearing headscarves; by the time he was thrown out a year later, most of them were. The stand-alones were jeered at and harassed.

Maajid was elected President of the college's student union and he was prickling with a Messianic sense of mission. He saw Newham College as a microcosm of the changes that were swelling in the world. "It literally felt revolutionary. We had taken over the campus, and that we were soon to take over the world ... We really believed the caliphate would be established any day soon." On the school's open day for prospective pupils and parents, they staged a massive prayer demonstration. Dozens of them stood in the main hall, yelling to Allah for vengeance. "We wanted to show the parents that if you're sending your kids here, these are the people in charge," he says.

I ask if anybody was arguing for a more liberal form of Islam. Maajid laughs. "Absolutely not. No way. In fact, the only people who were young that were articulating any form of Islam were the Islamists."

The only substantial push-back came from rival religious groups – especially students with a Nigerian Christian background, known universally as "the blacks". There was a racist hysteria that they were muggers and rapists and "somebody had to stand up to them", Maajid says. "Along came us, these crusading Islamists, who didn't give a shit. We'd stand in front of them and say – we don't fear death, we don't fear you, we only fear God." Allah was in their gang, and they were invincible. Young jihadis from outside the college started to hang around there, to defend the Muslims from "the Christian niggers". A tall, aggressive recruit from Brixton called Saeed Nur was appointed as their "bodyguard". He intimidated everyone into silence.

The news reports from the time confirm what happened next. One afternoon, a row broke over the use of the college pool table, as Maajid stood watching. A Nigerian student wanted to push the Muslims off it, and began making derogatory remarks about Islam. Somebody called Saeed to "sort him out". As soon as he arrived, the Nigerian student pulled out a knife – and Saeed produced a Samurai blade and thrust it straight into the boy's chest. As he fell, the other Muslim students set on him with hammers and knives and pool cues. They beat him to death.

How did he feel about the victim? Did he think about his family? He prods the questions away with a grunt. Maajid says he felt "indifferent" to the victim, but was pleased "the Muslims prevailed in the end". He adds: "We were heroes in HT ranks." And he is back to his story. He doesn't want to retrieve his emotions.

He was expelled, and spent the next few years ascending the ranks of HT, while pretending to study at various colleges. But he wanted to be at the heart of the jihad – and in 1999 he found a way. Abdel Kalim Zaloom, the global leader of HT, issued a command from his hidden base somewhere in the Middle East. Pakistan had just unveiled its nuclear weapons to the world. Zaloom wanted them to seize Pakistan, so when the caliphate came it would be nuclear-tipped. Maajid enrolled at Punjab University as a cover – and jetted off to the country his parents had left a lifetime ago.

In the sprawling slum-strewn chaos of Karachi, Maajid found "the first crack in my ideological armour ... I thought – oh, my God. I had idealised Muslim societies, but the people here know less about Islam than we do. And look at how disorganised it is."

He met with a slew of junior Pakistani army officers who had been training at Sandhurst, Britain's elite officer training academy. "They seemed like quite decent, amiable chaps, who believed in our ideology," he says. They had been recruited by other members to HT, "and I told them to rise up the ranks of the army, and when we had an opportunity, to mount a coup and declare the caliphate in Pakistan."

And then, in the strangely bland CEO-speak these ex-Islamists often lapse into, he adds enthusiastically: "It was a very exciting project. We thought it would happen in the medium-term."

Maajid won't be drawn – not now, and not in our later conversations – on the details of this coup plot. Perhaps this is because he is worried about compromising his ability to visit Pakistan. The Pakistani military spokesmen say it's a lie. The officers were, Maajid says, quietly arrested by Pervez Musharraf's government in 2003, and are currently in prison. Maajid decided to move on to Egypt, and arrived to study in Alexandria on 10 September 2001. When he saw the news from New York City, he felt – that word again – "indifferent". HT technically opposed the attacks, on the grounds they were carried out by private individuals rather than by the army of a renewed caliphate. But Maajid says "There was a huge wave of internal sympathy for [Bin Laden], because he's an ideological comrade, isn't he?"

He started to recruit other students, as he had done so many times before. But it was harder. "Everyone hated the [unelected] government [of Hosni Mubarak], and the US for backing it," he says. But there was an inhibiting sympathy for the victims of 9/11 – until the Bush administration began to respond with Guantanamo Bay and bombs. "That made it much easier. After that, I could persuade people a lot faster."

Then, at 3am one morning, a cadre of soldiers smashed into Maajid's bedroom bearing machine guns and grenades. He was taken, blindfolded and bound, to an underground bunker below the state security offices in Cairo. There were around 50 other men penned in. For three days, he kneeled, and heard the men around him being tortured with electric cattle prods.

"I thought, 'This is something I have been mentally preparing for, for a long time. I knew this day would come,'" he says. On the third day, the guards dragged him into an interrogation room with another British HT member. They punched him in the face and whacked him with batons. They produced the cattle prod. Maajid told them they wouldn't dare to torture a British citizen. "So they took the cattle prod and began electrocuting my friend in front of my eyes."

The British Embassy called looking for its citizens. The interrogation stopped suddenly, and transferred them to prison. Maajid felt no gratitude. "All I thought was – why did it take them three days to find us? They obviously didn't care about the rights of Muslims." He laughs now – a cold laugh, at his former self.

In Mazratora Prison, Maajid was held in solitary confinement for thee months. It was a bare cell with no bed, no light, and no toilet: just a concrete box. Then he was taken out suddenly and told his trial for "propagation by speech and writing for any banned organisation" was beginning in the Supreme State Emergency Court. But Maajid's Islamist convictions were about to be challenged from two unexpected directions – the men who murdered Egyptian President Anwar Sadat, and Amnesty International.

HT abandoned Maajid as a "fallen soldier" and barely spoke of him or his case. But when his family were finally allowed to see him, they told him he had a new defender. Although they abhorred his political views, Amnesty International said he had a right to free speech and to peacefully express his views, and publicised his case.

"I was just amazed," Maajid says. "We'd always seen Amnesty as the soft power tools of colonialism. So, when Amnesty, despite knowing that we hated them, adopted us, I felt – maybe these democratic values aren't always hypocritical. Maybe some people take them seriously ... it was the beginning of my serious doubts."

For the duration of the trial, he was placed in a cramped cell with 40 of Egypt's most famous political prisoners. There were row after row of beds with only a thin crack between them to inch through. Maajid was thrilled to discover two of the men who had conspired to murder Anwar Sadat – Omar Bayoumi and Dr Tauriq al Sawah – had recently been moved to this dank cell. "This is like meeting Che Guevara – these great forerunners and ideologues who I can now get the benefit of learning from," he says. But "they were very fatherly, and they had been spending all these years studying and learning. And they told me I had got my theology wrong".

After more than 20 years in prison, they had reconsidered their views. They told him he was false to believe there was one definitive, literal way to read the Koran. As they told it, in traditional Islam there were many differing interpretations of sharia, from conservative to liberal – yet there had been consensus around once principle: it was never to be enforced by a central authority. Sharia was a voluntary code, not a state law. "It was always left for people to decide for themselves which interpretation they wanted to follow," he says.

These one-time assassins taught Maajid that the idea of using state power to force your interpretation of sharia on everyone was a new and un-Islamic idea, smelted by the Wahabis only a century ago. They had made the mistake of muddling up the enduringly relevant decisions Mohamed made as a spiritual leader with those he made as a political ruler, which he intended to be specific to their time and place.

Maajid's ideology crumbled. "I realised that the idea of enforcing sharia is not consistent with Islam as it's been practised from the beginning. In other words, Islam has always been secular, and I had been totally ignorant of the fact." But he says he found this epiphany excruciating. "I knew if I followed these thoughts wherever they would lead," he says, "I would go from being HT's poster boy to being their fallen angel."

His trial was finally ending with the inevitable verdict: guilty. When he emerged from Mazratora Prison into the damp half-light of Britain, he was dazed. HT hailed him as a hero. "After four years of ignoring me, they wanted me to be their rock star ... I was asked if I wanted to be the leader." But in March 2007, he sent out a mass email saying he was resigning from HT, threw away his mobile, and went home to Southend.

He spent a long summer eating his mother's cooking, watching television, and seeing the school friends he had shunned more than a decade before. "It amazed me. These were ordinary British guys and they knew what I had become – that I had hated Britain. And yet when they saw me, they showed me such warmth," he says. "They remembered me as I was. They didn't care what I had done. They had time for me."

In September 2007, Maajid appeared on Newsnight – the BBC's flagship current affairs show – to announce that he recanted not just HT, but Islamism itself. "What I taught has not only damaged British society, it has damaged the world," he said.

With a small band of other ex-Islamists, Maajid decided to set up an organisation dedicated to promoting liberal Islam and rebutting Islamism. They named in the Quilliam Foundation after William Abdullah Quilliam, an English businessman who converted to Islam in the late 19th century and set up the first British mosque. They are taking the organisational skills and evangelical fervour of HT, and turning it against them. They are also taking nearly £1m from the British government – the only way, Maajid says, to do their work effectively.

The last time I speak to Maajid he is on the refugee-strewn North-West frontier of Pakistan, touring the country's universities. He is lecturing to huge audiences about his own experiences, and arguing against literalism in Islam. The massed ranks of the neo-Taliban are not far away. "People here and in Britain keep saying – we've been waiting for something like this for such a long time," he says over the telephone. "They're so happy people are starting to speak out. They're terrified to do it themselves, but this emboldens them."

A large audience of young Muslims is waiting for him. Maajid says assertively: "You know, back when I was an Islamist, I thought our ideology was like communism – and I still do. That makes me optimistic. Because what happened to communism? It was discredited as an idea. It lost. Who joins the Communist Party today?" I can hear the audience applaud him as he walks onto the stage, and with that, Maajid hangs up.

III. Lost in liberalism

As the summer arrives and London begins to swelter, I sit with most of the "out" ex-jihadis in a slew of Starbucks across the city. We sip iced lattes and discuss how, not long ago, they tried to destroy Western civilisation.

They have different backgrounds: one is a Yorkshire girl with Hindu parents, another is a Northern boy whose father was a Conservative ultra-Thatcherite. Yet they are startlingly similar: they have all retained the humourless intensity of their pasts. And when they describe their Islamist former selves, they are distant and cold, as if describing a rather unpleasant acquaintance they did not entirely understand.

They wreath their stories in clouds of pointless detail: they talk for hours about the intricacies of seventh-century Meccan society, or the fine distinctions in the hierarchy of HT, willing you to understand it. It's a way of avoiding answering the hardest question – why? But from their scattered stories, I can trace something that seems genuinely new: an ex-jihadi way of looking at the world, that carries lessons about how to stop Western Muslims sinking into jihadism.

As children and teenagers, the ex-jihadis felt Britain was a valueless vacuum, where they were floating free of any identity.

Ed Husain, a former leader of HT, says: "On a basic level, we didn't know who we were. People need a sense of feeling part of a group – but who was our group?" They were lost in liberalism, beached between two unreachable identities – their parents', and their country's. They knew nothing of Pakistan or Saudi Arabia or the other places they were constantly told to "go home" to by racists.

Yet they felt equally shut out of British or democratic identity. From the right, there was the brutal nativist cry of "Go back where you came from!" But from the left, there was its mirror-image: a gooey multicultural sense that immigrants didn't want liberal democratic values and should be exempted from them. Again and again, they described how at school they were treated as "the funny foreign child", and told to "explain their customs" to the class. It patronised them into alienation.

"Nobody ever said – you're equal to us, you're one of us, and we'll hold you to the same standards," says Husain. "Nobody had the courage to stand up for liberal democracy without qualms. When people like us at [Newham] College were holding events against women and against gay people, where were our college principals and teachers, challenging us?"

Without an identity, they created their own. It was fierce and pure and violent, and it admitted no doubt.

To my surprise, the ex-jihadis said their rage about Western foreign policy – which was real, and burning – emerged only after their identity crises, and as a result of it. They identified with the story of oppressed Muslims abroad because it seemed to mirror the oppressive disorientation they felt in their own minds. Usman Raja, a bluff, buff boxer who begged to become a suicide bomber in the mid-1990s, tells me: "Your inner life is chaotic and you feel under threat the whole time. And then you're told by Islamists that life for Muslims everywhere is chaotic and under threat. It becomes bigger than you. It's about the world – and that's an amazing relief. The answer isn't inside your confused self. It's out there in the world."

But once they had made that leap to identify with the Umma – the global Muslim community – they got angrier the more abusive our foreign policy came. Every one of them said the Bush administration's response to 9/11 – from Guantanamo to Iraq – made jihadism seem more like an accurate description of the world. Hadiya Masieh, a tiny female former HT organiser, tells me: "You'd see Bush on the television building torture camps and bombing Muslims and you think – anything is justified to stop this. What are we meant to do, just stand still and let him cut our throats?"

But the converse was – they stressed – also true. When they saw ordinary Westerners trying to uphold human rights, their jihadism began to stutter. Almost all of them said that they doubted their Islamism when they saw a million non-Muslims march in London to oppose the Iraq War: "How could we demonise people who obviously opposed aggression against Muslims?" asks Hadiya.

Britain's foreign policy also helped tug them towards Islamism in another way. Once these teenagers decided to go looking for a harder, tougher Islamist identity, they found a well-oiled state machine waiting to feed it. Usman Raja says: "Saudi literature is everywhere in Britain, and it's free. When I started exploring my Muslim identity, when I was looking for something more, all the books were Saudi. In the bookshops, in the libraries. All of them. Back when I was fighting, I could go and get a car, open the boot up, and get it filled up with free literature from the Saudis, saying exactly what I believed. Who can compete with that?"

He says the Saudi message is particularly comforting to disorientated young Muslims in the West. "It tells you – you're in this state of sin. But the sin doesn't belong to you, it's not your fault – it's Western society's fault. It isn't your fault that you're sinning, because the girl had the miniskirt on. It wasn't you. It's not your fault that you're drug dealing. The music, your peers, the people around you – it's their fault."

Just as their journeys into the jihad were strikingly similar, so were their journeys out. All of them said doubt began to seep in because they couldn't shake certain basic realities from their minds. The first and plainest was that ordinary Westerners were not the evil, Muslim-hating cardboard kaffir presented by the Wahabis. Usman, for one, finally stopped wanting to be a suicide bomber because of the kindness of an old white man.

Usman's mother had moved in next door to an elderly man called Tony, who was known in the neighbourhood as a spiteful, nasty grump. One day, Usman was teaching his little brother to box in the garden when he noticed the old man watching him from across the fence. "I used to box when I was in the Navy," he said. He started to give them tips and before long, he was building a boxing ring in their shed.

Tony died not long before 9/11, and Usman was sent to help clear out his belongings. In Tony's closet, he found a present wrapped and ready for his little brother's birthday: a pair of boxing gloves. "And I thought – that is humanity right there. That's an aspect of the divine that's in every human being. How can I want to kill people like him? How can I call him kaffir?"

Many of the ex-Islamists discovered they couldn't ignore the fact that whenever Islamists won a military victory, they didn't build a paradise, but hell.

At the same time, they began to balk at the mechanistic nature of Wahabism. Usman says he had become a "papier-mâché Muslim", defining his faith entirely by his actions, while being empty inside. "Wahabis are great at painting themselves [an Islamic] green on the outside, but when it comes to that internal aspect, it's not there. You pray five times a day, but why? Because God's told you to pray five times a day. You pay your charity – why? Because God's told you to pay your charity. This God of yours is telling you a lot. And why does he tell you to do that? Because if you don't do it, you'll end up in a fire. It's all based on being frightened. There's nothing to nourish you."

They had to go looking for other Islams – and often they found it in the more mystical school of the Sufis. "Wahabi Islam is totally sensory: eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth," Usman says. "It lays out a strict set of rules to be followed here on earth, every moment of the day. Sufi Islam teaches instead that the realm of Allah is wholly separate and spiritual and nothing to do with the shadow-play of mere mortals. It is accessible only through a sense of mystery and transcendence." In this new Sufi Islam, Usman found something he had never known before: a sense of calm.

Ed Husain insists: "There are a lot of Muslims who agree with us. A lot. But they're frightened. They see what's happened to us – the hassle, the slander, the death threats – and they think: it's not worth it. But you know what? When I first spoke out, I was alone. I had no idea that, a year on, there would be this number of people speaking out, and many more who are just offering resources and support. Once a truth is spoken, it takes on its own life."

IV. Not Strawberry Season

Anjem Choudhary waves his hand angrily through the air, and says that in the world he wants to create, the people I have been interviewing will be put to death. "They are apostates. I don't consider [them] to be Muslim in any sense of the word," he says. "Everybody knows the punishment for apostasy." My facial muscles must involuntarily react, because he leans forward and asks suspiciously: "Are you Jewish?"

Anjem is one of the last of the famous Islamists from the 1990s still walking London's streets, free and furious. A decade ago, this city hosted a stream of fanatical Muslims who kept cropping up in the tabloid press as semi-comic pantomime villains. But gradually, one by one, they have been deported or arrested, leaving Anjem as their final public face. He has said the Pope and the Mohamed cartoonists should be executed, and has lauded the 7/7 bombers as "the Fantastic Four".

I wanted to see what the people the ex-jihadis have left behind make of them – and to sense if they are seen as a real threat. Anjem suggests meeting me in the Desert Rose Café in Leyton, not far from Usama's mosque. The 41-year-old lives here on social security benefits, paid for by a populace he believes should – in large measure – be lashed, stoned or burned in the hellfires. A long beard covers his chubby face, and long white robes cover his swollen form. I was surprised he agreed to meet me. He rarely speaks to print journalists. The last time he did, he stormed out, accusing the reporter of being a paedophile.

He immediately launches into a lecture about how the ex-Islamists are all liars and charlatans. They are "government bandits, set up by them and funded by them to do their dirty work within the [Muslim] community ... They were never actually practising! They were ignorant of Islam."

When I read him statements by ex-Islamists, he spits: "This is heresy ... The Muslim must submit to the sharia in all of his life. If I start to say things like, 'I don't believe the sharia needs to be implemented,' then that's tantamount to denying the message of Mohamed ... To say that any part of the Koran is not relevant nowadays is a clear statement of apostasy."

Taking any part of the Koran as metaphor will, he warns, cause the text to turn to dust in their hands. "I can't pick and choose what I like from the scripture. This is not strawberry season, where you can pick your own strawberries. You abide by whatever Allah brought in the final revelation with the example of the Prophet. And if there's something that you don't like, then you need to correct your own emotions and desires to make sure they're in line with the sharia."

He describes what is going to happen to them with a grin: "After they've been burnt, their skin will be recreated, and they will suffer the same punishment again and again and again."

I wondered if Anjem's biography fitted with that of the ex-jihadis' – or was there something different about them all along? Anjem says he was born in Welling in South-East London in 1967, where his father was a Pakistani immigrant who ran a market stall. He first realised the One and Eternal Truth when, one day in the early 1990s, he happened to hear a lecture at a local mosque by the Syrian-born Islamist Omar Bakri. Until then, Anjem had been living a life of sin as a young trainee lawyer, known to his friends as Andy. The British tabloids have exposed that he had sex with white women and dropped LSD.

But as he tells it, in the flames of Bakri's rhetoric, Andy was burned away, and Anjem was born. "Yeah, obviously, I had a period where I was not practising ... I have no shame at all in saying that I didn't always use to be like this. And I have great thanks to Allah that he guided me."

Yes, I say – but you would whip and lash and execute the person you were 20 years ago. His eyes flare. He pushes back his chair, half-rising to leave. "What I used to be like and what I used to say before isn't under discussion. If you're going to continue to ask about that, then I'll just stop the interview."

He then launches into half an hour of theological gobbledegook, where any question I try to interject is waved aside with a sneer. He has no interest in persuasion: with dull Torquemada eyes, he advocates the execution of anyone who disagrees. Is he scared of the ex-jihadis and their arguments? He is certainly angry with them – but he is so angry at everyone that it is hard to tell what this means.

He begins to ask – jabbing his finger – what my alternative is. "In the United States, bestiality is legal in the privacy of your own home," he says. Paedophiles are rampant, with the Man-Boy Love Association on the brink of success. Compare that with the 1,300-year long caliphate. In all those years, he says, "there were only 60 rapes".

Do you really believe that if people are not suppressed by a tyrant-God, they will become paedophiles and start fucking animals? Are you so rotten inside? Does Anjum fear Andy that much?

He stares at me, flat and emotionless now. "That is your last question," he says. And as I leave and look back at him through the glass, jabbering on his phone and daydreaming of annihilation, I realise how far all my interviewees – and new friends – have travelled.

They have burned in this fire of certainty. They have felt it consume all doubt and incinerate all self-analysis. And they dared, at last, to let it go. Are they freakish exceptions – or the beginning of a great unclenching of the jihadi fist?

To watch Johann Hari taking on Hizb ut Tahrir in a debate on the Islam Channel, click here

You can follow Johann on Twitter at www.twitter.com/johannhari101

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forgot one
[info]rashadzali75 wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 12:38 am (UTC)
Seems you forgot one in the "ex-Islamist" British govt. financed industry:

Hassan Butt:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/09/uksecurity-july7

How many tax payer funds are going into promoting this?

Rashad
Re: forgot one
[info]sickofstupidity wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 03:46 pm (UTC)
Not sure what your point is Rashad. But how many tax payer funds have gone into Islamic faith schools, under the misguided attempts of the New Labour government to hand over the education of our children to religious fanatics? I'll tell you - MILLIONS. And how many of those Islamic 'schools' are actually Madrassas on British soil, which function as nothing more IslamIST indoctrination centres?

Do you have any problems with tax payer funds being used to PROMOTE Islamism, or just those used to OPPOSE it?

Just wondering...
Re: forgot one - [info]rashadzali75 - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 06:41 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: forgot one - [info]sickofstupidity - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 10:43 am (UTC) Expand
Renouncing Islamism
[info]racoluk wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 12:52 am (UTC)
When will we learn that we cannot defeat ignorance and stupidity.
Ex-Jihadis Living off British taxpayers
[info]rashadzali75 wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 01:02 am (UTC)

4 other good notes:

1. All of this is funded by British taxpayers:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5549138.ece

Nobody including the govt. knows where the money went or how it was spent, since no receipts were filed until just 6 days ago. Former British ambassador to Uzbekistan has been sued by Quilliam Foundation for even asking the obvious:

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/index.html

2. Video of the Trial of an ex-jihadi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t3uw2nZ7kY

Makes for GREAT viewing and insights into Ed/Maajid's real motivations

3. "Ed" Hussain supports surveillance of British Muslims:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/16/anti-terrorism-strategy-spies-innocents

Spying Morally Right Says Thinktank:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/oct/16/spying-morally-right-says-thinktank

4. Maajid Nawaz supports dictatorships in the Muslim World:

"Islam, on the other hand, is ENTIRELY COMPATIBLE with not just democracies, but monarchies and dictatorships. Islam did not invent any of these, but can survive in all of them. This may come as a surprise to many "moderate" Muslims who claim that Islam is inherently democratic."

source: http://thenutgraph.com/article-5096.html
Re: Ex-Jihadis Living off British taxpayers
[info]b_hornstein wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 01:47 pm (UTC)
Spot on. It is common to see articles like these preceding government pronouncements of troop increases or new invasions. There will soon be news of terrorist arrests like those of the 12 Pakistani students not long ago just before the AfPak strategy was announced. We all now know what a hoax that was.
Re: Ex-Jihadis Living off British taxpayers - [info]maxmillerfan - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 12:02 am (UTC) Expand
Easy answers
[info]muaddib32 wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 04:22 am (UTC)
Firstly, great article. Thank you for spending the time to try to understand the motivation behind the actions.
Secondly, I think the young in general are attracted to easy solutions. I was a radical socialist when I was 17-20. The solutions to the world's problems seemed so obvious. Only as I matured did I realise that my ideal was incompatible with human nature, including my own.
Thirdly, I'd have to agree with Ed Husain that we need to stand up and demand that new immigrants follow the liberal principles of the western societies in which they live. We shouldn't be modifying our behaviour to mollify them. Ayaan Hirsi Ali talks about this in length.

Ben
Melbourne, Australia
Re: Easy answers
[info]londonrebel wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 09:07 am (UTC)
Well said. This nation has become so liberal it is liberalising itself into a state of catatonia. You can dig a hole for fairness and open-mindedness so deep you can never get out of it; the hole is also so deep you can no longer see the world. Sooner or later we are going to realise in this country we have rapidly squandered whatever it was that took us centuries to achieve; unfortunately it is almost certainly going to be a huge act of violence against our traditions and our people before we are shaken out of this stupour.
Re: Easy answers - [info]halfmoon_rising - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 05:12 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Easy answers - [info]1maia - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 10:00 pm (UTC) Expand
Great Work, Mr Hari
[info]martin44 wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 04:39 am (UTC)
This should be widely circulated.
Tarek Fatah: Islamist extremist in sheep's clothing
[info]godlaughs wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 05:04 am (UTC)
I would be interested knowing Johann Hari's opinion of Tarek Fatah's article in the National Post warning people about "the Islamist doctrine of Taqiyaa, a dissimulation methodology employed to hide one's true agenda, which recommends appearing harmless to one's adversary with the objective of having them lower their guard."


Fatah, a left-wing Canadian Muslim who wants Canada to ban the niqab and burka writes about Tariq Ramadan as the new face of Islamists.


"Tariq Ramadan reflects the new sophisticated arm of the worldwide Islamist movement, which sees the West as the right place to wage a cultural and intellectual jihad. It preys on Muslim youth who are tired of the old guard; men in beards and long frocks, frothing as they denounce the evil West. The new technique is to undermine the West from within, like parasites and termites, with the host society never knowing what hit it, until it is too late. UK is one example."

Read more: http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/11/05/tarek-fatah-banned-in-canada.aspx#ixzz0WzYLISTN

Re: Tarek Fatah: Islamist extremist in sheep's clothing
[info]baigohshiong wrote:
Friday, 20 November 2009 at 02:18 pm (UTC)
Just like the communists have endeavoured to do over the previous ninety years
We can never trust islam
My own confession
[info]johncmullen1960 wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 06:35 am (UTC)
I was young and probably naive and easily influenced. I thank God today that I got away in time from evil ideas. Yes, me too, despite my university education, I was tempted for a short time to support British troops in Afghanistan. Incredible as it might seem now we know of the carnage and massacres they are responsible for, the clever propaganda of Tony Blair held me completely brainwashed for weeks. I tell this story today as a warning to young and naïve people who might end up supporting British bombing in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Re: My own confession
[info]freethinkin wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 09:09 am (UTC)
pathetic
Re: My own confession - [info]corporeal_v001 - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 10:04 am (UTC) Expand
Re: My own confession - [info]pontanus - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 11:56 am (UTC) Expand
the underlying support net for islamism
[info]gondorplace wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 08:04 am (UTC)
...is your normal religious family where these boys are born and bred.

You cannot understand their minds unless you were among them, unless they accepted you as one of their own. Once they do that, it is easy to meet another thousand of similar minded people through social networking, Eid festivals and never ending series of invitations to their homes. It is here that you learn that their whole culture, carefully shielded from the external environment through blaze citations from Quran, is actually quite uniform, quite antisemitic, quite terrorism supportive. In the words and thoughts of so called secular Muslims, these poor minds, possibly less intelligent that the others and incapable of double thinking, find their food to fight 'for the cause'.

The studies have aleady been done at the universities - the second generation is usually most fanatical (the first generation must be silent to remain in the country), and it is only in the third generation that the assimilation occurs. With some exceptions.

The problem is, even after they renounce some extreme principles of their religion, most Muslims will not publically object it, as they risk losing their family, their friends and possibly some vengance from their more fanatical peers.

Yes, ideology truly worth of respect...
Re: the underlying support net for islamism
[info]matt_91912113 wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 09:57 am (UTC)
Compleatly fabricated, government supported, right wing, fascist propaganda. You sound alot like this chap from the 1940's, different religion, same old propaganda:

"If only one country, for whatever reason, tolerates a Jewish family in it, that family will become the germ center for fresh sedition. If one little Jewish boy survives without any Jewish education, with no synagogue and no Hebrew school, it [Judaism] is in his soul. Even if there had never been a synagogue or a Jewish school or an Old Testament, the Jewish spirit would still exist and exert its influence. It has been there from the beginning and there is no Jew, not a single one, who does not personify it." - Adolf Hitler

Compare

"You cannot understand their minds unless you were among them, unless they accepted you as one of their own. Once they do that, it is easy to meet another thousand of similar minded people through social networking, Eid festivals and never ending series of invitations to their homes. It is here that you learn that their whole culture, carefully shielded from the external environment through blaze citations from Quran, is actually quite uniform, quite antisemitic, quite terrorism supportive. In the words and thoughts of so called secular Muslims, these poor minds, possibly less intelligent that the others and incapable of double thinking, find their food to fight 'for the cause'. - Gondorplace




Re: the underlying support net for islamism - [info]gondorplace - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 11:53 am (UTC) Expand
Re: the underlying support net for islamism - [info]matt_91912113 - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 11:55 am (UTC) Expand
Re: the underlying support net for islamism - [info]yitzhakshamir - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 01:01 pm (UTC) Expand
Great Work, Johann!
[info]quietzapple wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 08:06 am (UTC)
Congratulations.
far down the evolutionary chain
[info]lee_ji_me wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 08:13 am (UTC)
don't forget that most human beings are not very evolved...most of these types of people who believe in gobbledygook be it Islamic, Christian or otherwise are just not very evolved and are quite close to the lowest animal chain of being - that is probably why there is such a primevil instinct to hurt others and to inflict damage - it is the hunting instinct of a male animal. Some humans are more evolved - simple as that. The terrifying thing about the human animal is that it has a developed capacity to create and develop ideas that are not necessarily going to benefit the human race as evolution stands now. I do believe that the fittest survive and these will be the most intelligent so we need not fear in the long run.
Re: far down the evolutionary chain
[info]matt_91912113 wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 11:05 am (UTC)
Really? Thats strange, because i know ALOT of Muslims and Christians who are doctors, surgeons, lawyers etc. What exactly do you do that makes you such a highly evolved human being?
Re: far down the evolutionary chain - [info]lee_ji_me - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 06:28 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: far down the evolutionary chain - [info]lee_ji_me - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 10:15 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: far down the evolutionary chain - [info]matt_91912113 - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 08:47 am (UTC) Expand
Re: far down the evolutionary chain - [info]lee_ji_me - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 09:17 am (UTC) Expand
Freedom
[info]freedommonger wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 08:26 am (UTC)
[They have burned in this fire of certainty. They have felt it consume all doubt and incinerate all self-analysis. And they dared, at last, to let it go. Are they freakish exceptions – or the beginning of a great unclenching of the fist?]

Freedom is, in essence, the freedom of thought, the freedom to consider any idea.

What thoughts do you have that are not free?

How about the idea that the USA did not go to Iraq for it's oil or to control it, but to remove a dictator and emancipate Iraqi people?

Is it possible for you to accept the possibility that G W Bush was in fact earnest and truthful about his intentions? Even though he spoke funny and sounded stoopid?

Those that not only stop believing such oppressive ideas to the exclusion of all others, but also have the courage to stand up and say so, and why, are in my opinion heroes. Where are the ex Combat 18 thugs doing the same? Maybe they should join forces with the Quilliam Foundation

Still, thats "them". Can you do it? Look at Iraq, its new election law and the vibrant democracy that looks, I hope, to be building a new secular and free society of Islamic and other people. This is the real Caliphate.

Can you do it? We could all be free then.
Re: Freedom
[info]goatbucket wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 05:16 pm (UTC)
Absolutely, salute these guys for abandoning extremism.

Now if only we could get members of the U.S. government to do the same...
Re: Freedom - [info]tompenn - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 06:31 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Freedom - [info]goatbucket - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 01:01 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Freedom - [info]tompenn - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 07:21 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Freedom - [info]freedommonger - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 11:14 am (UTC) Expand
Wonderful
[info]claphamomnibus wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 08:27 am (UTC)
Johann Hari, thank you for your reportage, it's a real pleasure to read your intelligent and interesting articles. Keep up the good work.
They are not English, so refrain from using the term
[info]saxontimes wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 08:52 am (UTC)
I strongly object to you calling the 7/7 bombers "young Englishmen", this is a racist slur and an aberration. To be English you must have English blood in you, none of them have an Anglo-Saxon background as far as I can tell so they are CATEGORICALLY not English. It is like me going to Pakistan and calling myself ethnically Pakistani, which is completely absurd!!!!!

These people were ethnically and culturally Pakistani except one of them who I believe was West Indian. Do not represent them as being part of my ethnic background, call them British if you want because that is what their passport says. I no longer understand the concept of being British as it has been trashed by Labour and the Tories, but if you want it is a very loose term to describe the multi ethnic mess that this country has become.
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term
[info]matt_91912113 wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 10:06 am (UTC)
Your an idiot. If an English person was abandoned as a 2 week old baby in Italy and brought up there, it would be Italian, because of the common language and the environment. Nationality is NOT determined by race but on where you are brought. So no it wouldnt be like you going to Pakistan and calling your self ethnically pakistani. Mr Hari did not say they claimed to be ethinically english. If you are white but brought up in Pakistan then you are Pakistani. These guys were brought up here, they were not just visiting.

Also, they bombed innocent people. I think that makes them British enough.
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]saxontimes - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 11:48 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]matt_91912113 - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 11:53 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]saxontimes - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 12:04 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]matt_91912113 - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 12:09 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]dashamonrovia - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 05:57 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]saxontimes - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 10:09 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]azurelunatic - Wednesday, 18 November 2009 at 01:18 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]media_myths - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 11:55 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]matt_91912113 - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 12:05 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]saxontimes - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 12:21 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]matt_91912113 - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 12:25 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]media_myths - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 06:38 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]matt_91912113 - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 08:40 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]media_myths - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 08:51 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]matt_91912113 - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 10:09 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]media_myths - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 10:50 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]matt_91912113 - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 11:25 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]media_myths - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 11:10 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]andy108 - Wednesday, 18 November 2009 at 12:39 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]matt_91912113 - Wednesday, 18 November 2009 at 12:40 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]andy108 - Wednesday, 18 November 2009 at 12:44 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]matt_91912113 - Wednesday, 18 November 2009 at 12:46 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]goatbucket - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 05:24 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]media_myths - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 06:32 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]chiennoir - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 10:14 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]saxontimes - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 11:57 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]chiennoir - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 01:05 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]saxontimes - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 10:13 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Earth.UK.England.Lancashire.Manchester.Stretford - [info]corporeal_v001 - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 10:27 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Earth.UK.England.Lancashire.Manchester.Stretford - [info]saxontimes - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 11:45 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Earth.UK.England.Lancashire.Manchester.Stretford - [info]corporeal_v001 - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 12:01 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Earth.UK.England.Lancashire.Manchester.Stretford - [info]saxontimes - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 12:18 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Earth.UK.England.Lancashire.Manchester.Stretford - [info]corporeal_v001 - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 02:40 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Earth.UK.England.Lancashire.Manchester.Stretford - [info]saxontimes - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 10:21 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Earth.UK.England.Lancashire.Manchester.Stretford - [info]corporeal_v001 - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 10:44 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]graveltongue - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 11:36 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]saxontimes - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 11:53 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]graveltongue - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 12:54 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]saxontimes - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 10:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]graveltongue - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 08:33 am (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]goatbucket - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 05:29 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]kanjizai - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 06:41 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]saxontimes - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 10:32 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: They are not English, so refrain from using the term - [info]kanjizai - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 03:37 am (UTC) Expand
You couldn't win at that time
[info]tallise wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 09:11 am (UTC)
"When people like us at [Newham] College were holding events against women and against gay people, where were our college principals and teachers, challenging us?"
Too busy being politically correct. I was in the probation service at that time, and I felt most ill-at-ease that one was not allowed to challenge, for fear of being seen to be racially discriminatory. You couldn't win.

Follow the money
[info]paul999 wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 09:34 am (UTC)
Militant strain of Wahabi - Saudi Arabia. 9/11 bombers 80% Saudi Arabian. Bin Laden - Saudi Arabian. Doctored (sorry updated Korans) - Saudi Arabia.

Quick lets attack Iraq and Afghanistan, the homes of Islamic Terrorism
Re: Follow the money
[info]freedommonger wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 11:22 am (UTC)
Lets set Iraqis free, so all Islamic people can see the real Caliphate, and extremism will wither.

This is why "they" (you?) fear free Iraq so much you must deny it as it sits in front of your scale covered eyes.

Free your mind.

Then come back and tell us about it, like the brave men and women the article reports have done.

Free Iraq is the death of the House of Saud, the theocrats of Iran, the police state of Egypt.

Watch it. Peoples minds are being freed. Join in.
Re: Follow the money - [info]goatbucket - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 05:11 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Follow the money - [info]pontanus - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 12:06 pm (UTC) Expand
Religious 'logic'
[info]midwinter1947 wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 11:26 am (UTC)
The thing I don't get about any religious justification for violence is: if (whichever) god created all humans and if any particular person's religion is almost always determined by where and to whom they were born; how can this justify killing anyone but especially children? Persuasion MIGHT be a religious response but not indiscriminate bombings.

Richard Dawkins you are so right.
Re: Religious 'logic'
[info]pontanus wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 12:10 pm (UTC)
Religion is just the banner they march under and is a distraction when trying to understand such violence. In fact, all wars, invasions, 'terrorist' atrocities are about territory and resources.
Re: Religious 'logic' - [info]freedommonger - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 03:23 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Religious 'logic' - [info]john_b_ellis - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 03:57 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Religious &#39;logic&#39; - [info]freedommonger - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 04:25 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Religious &#39;logic&#39; - [info]goatbucket - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 05:21 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Religious &#39;logic&#39; - [info]ourmaninberlin - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 05:27 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Religious &#39;logic&#39; - [info]goatbucket - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 05:31 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Religious 'logic' - [info]john_b_ellis - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 03:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Religious 'logic' - [info]sickofstupidity - Thursday, 19 November 2009 at 04:35 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Religious 'logic' - [info]deolenitpikka - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 07:23 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Religious 'logic' - [info]ourmaninberlin - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 09:36 am (UTC) Expand
[info]mtvmalta wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 11:53 am (UTC)
GRAZZI
Excellent!
[info]bobav wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 12:09 pm (UTC)
The ravings which my enemy uttered I heard within my heart
by Mewlana Jalaluddin Rumi


The ravings which my enemy uttered I heard within my heart;
the secret thoughts he harbored against me I also perceived.

His dog bit my foot, he showed me much injustice; I do not
bite him like a dog, I have bitten my own lip.

Since I have penetrated into the secrets of individuals like men
of God, why should I take glory in having penetrated his secret?

I reproach myself that through my doubtings it so happened
that purposely I drew a scorpion towards my own foot.

Like Eblis who saw nothing of Adam except his fire, by God I
was invisible to his insignificant Eblis.

Convey to my friends why I am afflicted in mind; when the
snake bit my thigh I started away from the black rope.

The blessed silent ones, their lips and eyes closed -by a way
unknown to any man, I ran into their thoughts;

Since there is a secret and perfect way from heart to heart, I
gathered gold and silver from the treasuries of hearts.

Into the thought that was like a brazen stove I flung the dead
dog; out of the thought that was like a rose bower I plucked roses and jasmine.

If I have hinted at the evil and good ofm y friends, I have spun
flax like a weaver as the choicest veil.

When my heart rushed suddenly to a heart mighty and aware,
out of awe for his heart I fluttered like the heart.

As you are happy with your own state, how did you fall in with
me? Attend to your own business, for I am neither shaikh nor disciple.

As far as you are concerned, brother, I am neither copper nor
red gold; drive me from your door, for I am neither lock nor key.

Take it as if I had not ever spoken these words; if you had been
in my mind, by God I would not have quarreled
Re: Excellent!
[info]drahcir38 wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 02:49 pm (UTC)
Sorry bur I fail to see how an Afghani 13th century poet can throw any light onto this very 21st century debate.
Re: Excellent! - [info]bobav - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 06:51 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Excellent! - [info]tompenn - Tuesday, 17 November 2009 at 07:34 am (UTC) Expand
Brilliant!!
[info]dolgoth wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 01:37 pm (UTC)
What a fantastic insightful article. I was glued from beginning to end. Those people
have such stories to tell, we would do well to listen.

Again great read...
the hypocrisy
[info]contrastcolour wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 02:18 pm (UTC)
Only half way through the article and haven't read any of the comments yet, but what is striking me is that Usama's epiphany (though I hate to use a religious term) came when he realised everything he had in common with the people he was "supposed" to hate. His Jewish schoolfriends who were so similar to himself...

I guess, that's just it: people need to start thinking about themselves as individuals, and all other people as individuals, rather than the monolithic blocks of "peoples" that big organisations like religions would have us believe in.

We're all little specks on this little planet spinning through a very, very, very, VERY large universe. Hating strangers for no other reason that a fear or ignorance of the unknown, or hatred of imagined OR real historical injustices is just a waste of time.

I may not always be the best example of this... but Usama is a good example of somebody (in an extreme situation) who just knew he had to let it all go...
Re: the hypocrisy
[info]freedommonger wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 03:25 pm (UTC)
[eople need to start thinking about themselves as individuals, and all other people as individuals]

quite so

G W Bush is a man no different to you or me. And Tony Blair. Or is that "too far" for you?
Re: the hypocrisy - [info]contrastcolour - Monday, 16 November 2009 at 03:48 pm (UTC) Expand
A generation of British Christianists...
[info]freddyfresh wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 02:45 pm (UTC)
Have been brainwashed to think that Islam is some scary religion of suicide bombers. This fake war on terror is simply a diversion from the West stealing resources from the Middle East, and using it as justification for spreading 'democracy' and freedom'.

But now some of those would-be extremists have had a change of heart. Commonsense made them give up the fight
Re: A generation of British Christianists...
[info]eeguy wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 07:19 pm (UTC)
Yeah, the West is stealing Middle East resources at $80 per barrel. I'd rather say that Middle East is ripping us off.
Bramshill delenda est.
[info]ron_broxted wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 05:13 pm (UTC)
Dear Mr H, a lot of it is "my enemys enemy is my friend". Islam (radical) is the best way of combatting the far right and their armed and uniformed wing the police. As for that old chestnut about killing apostates an Imam told me that if I were to revert to Islam then changed my mind I would not be killed.
Article: Renouncing Islamism...
[info]cath_jam wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 06:12 pm (UTC)
Thank you; very good article. It gives me hope.

Catherine W
Excellent!
[info]buildself wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 06:15 pm (UTC)
I think this article is something that pins down the differences and dilemmas that muslim living in the UK go through trying to find themselves and belong to a country that is so distant and not really accepting. Basically British muslims want to be accepted and given the same opportunity as others to find meaningful work, learn and travel.. This is something they experienced in the UK only but what struck them is the lack of basic rights and freedoms in the so called muslim states of Pakistan, Saudi and Egypt... These British muslims began to realise that the paradise they thought was 'out there' is so not but it is something they can create for themselves in a free democratic Britain and yes it is their home because this is where their basic freedom and liberties are protected under British LAW. The presence of these laws are what distinquishes them from the other muslims living under militarian regimes. Islam can only be practised, shared and be meaningful in the presence of shared values: justice, freedom of choice, respect, provision of food, shelter, security and freedom of expression. So as fellow muslims we need to create a pural community where all people come together and work together for a better future for all. Muslims are part of British life and we need to show the positive strengths that Islam holds to build a base and identity that one can be proud of and be confident to be accepted as a 'muslim believer that loves and accepts people from different cultures and faiths'. Ilham Shebani, Build Self Group Community Project, 'Together we are stronger, Together we can make a difference'.
[info]synthmatrix wrote:
Monday, 16 November 2009 at 07:36 pm (UTC)
Great article. I will be distributing this.

I think that it's worth noting that Skinheads and racial prejudice only promote radical Islam, by making young asians feel they are 'other' in the UK. Which is interesting when taking into account the BNP's stance on security in this country. Also to the attacks on the author above about calling these young people 'British' in the article, pointing out that they are non-white and therefore not British - a standard BNP response, I say: YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM, because you create the racist environment that breeds young jihadists.
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