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Yasmin Alibhai-Brown: Why is my gender suddenly in retreat?

The truth is that all nations would prefer it if women went back indoors again

Boorish, brutish sexism has broken out again. Yet again. And, as usual, here come lady cheerleaders, handmaidens to men who have never accepted that half of God's people are fully human and entitled to all that the world has to offer. How these tongues burned and lashed out when Cathy Ashton got the top foreign policy job in the EU. She got it 'cos she is a flippin' woman. Obvious, innit?

And before that her skirts and lipstick meant they had no other choice when casting around for a replacement for Lord Mandelson's EU job and her peerage too must have been an appeasement gesture for those pesky feminists (did he get all his big breaks because he is gay? Such questions would be unseemly and are rightly never asked). A Sunday newspaper cartoonist calls Ashton "whatsherface?" Such wit.

Baroness Ashton and I are slightly acquainted, no more, if you need to know that. She has always seemed to me pragmatic and effective, with abiding principles, able to cut through dross and unaffected by grandeur and privilege. None of that matters. She is a woman and should stay in some obscure corner.

The world only feels right when women are removed from the public space. We know that is what the Taliban believes. The discouraging truth is that all nations would dearly like it if women went back indoors again to seek and find total fulfilment in babies and baking and these days 24-hour sexual availability. I love babies, baking, beautiful clothes, fun and men. But I am and always will be a feminist, with eyes wide open until we get to the point when equality no longer needs to be fought for. Not in my lifetime for sure. Women's rights have come a long way since the 1950s, but the mountain is high and we frequently slip or are pushed down. Was I the only person in the world to notice that when the US met China in Beijing, along the long table with Hu Jintao and Barack Obama were all men in dull suits?

Hillary Clinton was somewhere else in China, so couldn't provide relief from the monotony and static manliness of the delegates. On the BBC's always lively programme Dateline London I asked this question. After some seconds of silence Dianne Wei Liang, a Chinese thriller writer, remembered the translator was female. Everyday I watch British TV (including the BBC which gets substantial licence fee money from those of us with the XX chromosome) and all intrepid travel programme presenters are white and male, most TV chefs and judges too, history, design and games show hosts and so on and on. Yes there are a few women, not enough and always pert and pretty, feeling they have to be flirty, pleasing to men.

Jeremy Clarkson and Russell Brand and even coarser creatures cleverly debase women, including our women politicians. They are the "it" boys. They turn their chauvinism into gold. Simon Cowell ended the hopes of the beautiful singer Lucie Jones and was gratuitously rude to her, then praised her for meekly accepting this treatment. Only one woman is now left in his show while hairspray keeps the boys in.

The world's economy was brought down by careless, greedy men. Women, said authors of a report on the crisis by the Cranfield School of Management, were not more risk averse but more risk aware. Just what we need. Do we see any sign that that quality is being valued in the financial sector? Do let me know if there is. All I see is still wretchedly low representation of women in our top echelons and progress, compared with say the Scandinavian nations, snail slow. And even the sluggish snails now get stamped on.

In the last weeks it has been more evident that we women are not faring well. The Pope invites anti-women Anglicans to join his properly male church, and they threaten to, encouraged by the now blonde Ann Widdecombe; the adorable Sir Alan Sugar arrives in the Lords, he with his admired retro views on foolish young women who want to work and have a family; a high-achieving scientist reveals she was the upmarket prostitute and blogger Belle De Jour (what does that mean? That you let rich strangers deep into your body and not factory workers? So you make more dough opening your legs? And that makes you more classy?).

The professor of law Ruth Deech condemns attempts by the equalities champion Lord Lester to give mothers in cohabiting relationships the same rights as those whose marriages break up, and adds that the law would be a windfall for lawyers and no one else "except the gold-digger". The newly minted high priestess of family values, Catholic Cristina Odone, once a powerful media player, now says she chokes on her cereal when she hears women moaning about glass ceilings.

And what about young females? More bad news. Jill Berry of the Girls' Schools Association believes girls must not grow up expecting "to have it all". But boys must be allowed to expect that, Mrs Berry? I hope parents interrogate this custodian of future generation women whose dreams she is trying to cut down.

Research by the NSPCC reveals that a third of teenage girls in a relationship have experienced forced sex and or physical abuse by boyfriends. One teenage girl I heard from witnessed two such scenes at parties and couldn't understand why nobody else there thought it was wrong. Now they are talking here and in the US of the paradox of "declining female happiness". The more powerful we get, the less happy we are. What's more, men are getting happier and women are getting gloomier.

The brilliant US columnist Maureen Dowd deconstructs the findings and suggests that the feminist revolution may have benefited men more than women who have only taken on added burdens – the impossible balance between work and life, time poverty, pressures to be always young and beautiful. Then there is derision and subversion from reactionary men and women which makes the glittering prizes feel both heavy and pointless. Exhausting and debilitating it may be, but the fight must go on. Feminism will get us there one day because we are worth it. And I am not swishing my extensions or pouting my lips as I write that.

y.alibhai-brown@independent.co.uk

More from Yasmin Alibhai-Brown

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[info]jobrag58 wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 05:29 am (UTC)
No Yasmin boys have never expected to "have it all", the vast majority have expected to go out to work in a job that they probably dislike or possibly loathe in order to earn enough to keep a roof over their head and food on the table. They accepted that in order to achieve these modest goals they would sacrifice aspects of child rearing, they knew that coming home knackered from a day at work doesn't put you in a good frame of mind to a fractious two year old to bed, or that little Timmy would probably take his first steps when he was out. Then came along a generation of (mainly) journalists who wanted it all, they wanted to be bright and cheerful at bedtime after a fulfilling day editing a national newspaper, they yearned to hear little Candida say "mummy" as her first word, but got really irritated when they found that it doesn't work. That after a day running ICI the last thing you need is two hours reading Tommy the Tiger 15 times to a kid who bursts into tears if you say no, that hearing that Johnny walked across the room for the first time is not nearly as satisfying as seeing it yourself.
Get f@#$%^g real! If you want a career find a partner who will look after the kids and house while you’re out. If you want domestic bliss find a provider who'll keep the roof over your head. Stop wanting it all men never had it why should you expect it.
I totally agree Jobrag58
[info]jamesgodalming wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 01:15 pm (UTC)
I couldn't agree more with the last message. Men keep being run down and it is getting to the point where the bonds that hold society together are being seriously strained. We do not live in a fair society, it is deeply prejudiced against men. Society expects men to work and earn money to support a family. Modern society expects men to be both macho (or we are labelled "wimps") while at the same time be in touch with our feminine side (or we are "bastards"). Every day we are abused and denigrated on television with adverts proudly saying "It's so easy a man could do it!" and other insults. We are doing worse at schools than girls because there are now fewer and fewer male teachers, the witch hunt for paedophiles continues unabated with many men now feeling uncomfortable being around children at all. We stand to be accused of raping someone if THEY get drunk, we are due to be punished for allowing someone to live with us, women are now rewarded for breaking up families and going it alone, while men usually are prevented from seeing their own children whom they have to continue paying for. Is it any wonder suicide rates amongst young men are up, violent crime is up and I suspect many more men will turning to each other for support. It isn't any surprise that the feminist utopia does not exist...we could have told you a long time ago that a man's world has never been much fun. At least in the old days we had different roles that complemented each other... now it is a confused and disappointing muddle where no one is happy, neither woman, man or child.
Re: I totally agree Jobrag58 - [info]odubtaig - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 01:44 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I totally agree Jobrag58 - [info]jamesgodalming - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 02:03 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I totally agree Jobrag58 - [info]belfastboy - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 02:04 pm (UTC) Expand
Know one what? - [info]odubtaig - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 03:20 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info] - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 06:35 am (UTC)
[info]odubtaig wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 01:45 pm (UTC)
With any luck it's because you're choking to death.
(no subject) - [info]guv111 - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 02:00 pm (UTC) Expand
I've got a better idea. - [info]odubtaig - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 03:22 pm (UTC) Expand
In retreat
[info]jadroo wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 07:06 am (UTC)
Who puts women like Posh Spice and Sharon Osborne on the cover of Womens magazines? Don't blame men if women choose to worship these worthless creatures. You won't see Mary Robinson or Aung San Suu Kyi on the front covers. These women stand for something
Re: In retreat
[info]ammmie wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 11:23 am (UTC)
Find me a magazine that does have genuinely inspirational women rather than the celebrities that the media wish me to aspire to and I would buy it (as I'm sure that many others would too).

Just because the market is saturated with such rubbish, doesn't mean that that's what women want! There's a huge gap in the market for intelligent and inspirational material for women. A choice would be nice. Instead I'm faced with the same tired crap and the perpetuation of mysogynistic images, ideals and gender roles that I'm expected to aspire to. Why?

Re: In retreat - [info]jadroo - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 11:54 am (UTC) Expand
Re: In retreat - [info]rockinrog - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 12:23 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: In retreat - [info]ammmie - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 05:58 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]amberspyglas666 - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 07:57 am (UTC) Expand
Re: sincere thanks to the Independent
[info]giordano_b wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 11:32 am (UTC)
I'm fine with Yasmin saying her piece but I do object to her misrepresenting Ruth Deech.

Ruth Deech says co-habiting couples should not be treated the same as married couples in the eyes of the law - which many people would say is common sense. If they were then this would definitely lead to "gold-diggers" and a windfall for lawyers. Imagine if you lived with a man for a week, then he left you and claimed half your house as if he had the same entitlement as a spouse. That was Ruth Deech's point and Yasmin is being a bit naughty.

Ruth Deech also says that there are existing laws to protect mothers whose partners leave them and their children - which is also true (The 1989 Children Act).


I'm against sexism - but it seems to me that Yasmin is just having a rant. Men behave badly. So what? No law is going to stop that.

Re: sincere thanks to the Independent - [info]odubtaig - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 01:47 pm (UTC) Expand
I don't believe this at all
[info]soaring_eagle1 wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 08:52 am (UTC)
I have never believed in feminism, but I made sure that everything within the relationship with my husband is equal and fair shares even before we married, he was a new man before the the term was used in the media.

Lets face it most of the females of the next generation are moronic and airhead enough to just think of themselves in this way, because all they seem to think about is being over made up clothes horses, it is proven everyday, so how can you blame the males for thinking women are no use except barefoot and pregnant. I am confident enough in myself not to wear make up at all and I wear what I like I never ever followed the fashions of the time, I positively do not get taken in by all the tosh the adverts on TV blare out everyday.

You don't have to be a feminist to be able to stand your corner in a so called mans world.

Male chauvinist pigs have never really died out, it is just that we women have ways and means for making them think they have the upper hand, of course they don't.
Re: I don't believe this at all
[info]ilestlouis wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 09:53 am (UTC)
Do you know what feminism means?

Feminism is just the concept that women, if they choose, should have same the opportunities as men. This does not mean they have to end up 50-50 in any given career field. It means that IF THEY CHOOSE, they should have access to the same services, healthcare, the vote, the legal system, and careers as men.

Is this really that outrageous a concept?

Re: I don't believe this at all - [info]karachi747 - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 01:33 pm (UTC) Expand
The "brilliant" Dowd
[info]larkspur_14 wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 09:06 am (UTC)
is just as sexist as all her colleagues. It was Obama's campaign which set this off, with the blatant misogyny in his supporters' attacks on first Clinton and then Palin (Dowd happily dabbling in the character-assassinations) not only tolerated but emulated. As many in the US who saw and were dismayed by this have noted, the only effect will be to persuade women that entering public life is a mug's game.
Re: The "brilliant" Dowd
[info]jadroo wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 12:07 pm (UTC)
Character assassination is part and parcel of election campaigning in USA and everywhere else. But when a woman is at the receiving end some of the sisters cry "Misogyny!", "Sexism!"

Are you suggesting women who enter politics should be treated with a special softly softly approach? Should the Media that ridiculed (quite rightly) George Bushes ignorance of the world outside of USA, ignore Sara Palins equal ignorance because she is a woman?
Re: The "brilliant" Dowd - [info]dnmurphy - Wednesday, 25 November 2009 at 03:14 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: The "brilliant" Dowd - [info]domoresti - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 06:13 pm (UTC) Expand
This writer is a menace!
[info]unshakenwill wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 09:10 am (UTC)
While I agree with some of the truisms that Yasmin tries to put across, she really needs to be watched. While independent, successful and apparently feminist, there is more to the mixture. To boot, she has shown herself to be coldly antisemitic with her article cowardly published on Yom Kippur. In other areas, her strains of bitterness and a kind of passive revengefulness mark her out as someone to be embarrassed about when writing of a real social problem in today's world - the full acceptance of gender equality - in all spheres, but especially in the workplace.
Re: This writer is a menace!
[info]odubtaig wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 01:54 pm (UTC)
Subtle. Very subtle.
[info]thomasth wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 09:17 am (UTC)
this is absolute rubbish - nobody I know, and i know a great many people - have anything at all against women leading them in any number of fields - people simply want to be well led - there is no fight to fight - this is a non-issue cooked up in Yasmin's head - something to carp on about on an off day.
Oh dear
[info]larkspur_14 wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 09:20 am (UTC)
"the now blonde Ann Widdecombe"? Using a person's appearance against her to suggest frivolity and light headedness is exactly the tactic of the misogynist. Please, Mrs Alibhai Brown! You seem infected by the same regrettable tendency. And there was Andrew Marr on the radio this morning, praising the revolting Simon Cowell because he has allowed people to be more rude to one another in public, thus also helping to the unleash the hounds of misogyny.
Her indoors
[info]alstubbino wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 09:21 am (UTC)
Take he hint woman.
her indoors
[info]alstubbino wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 09:23 am (UTC)
the
[info]parodyofvirtue wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 09:24 am (UTC)
I love the contradictions in the Independent: great pieces like this one speaking out against sexism, then the editor's choice selection of "Bling it on! Statement accessories" - as if I might get bored of the news and need some shiny things to perk me up.
Here, you can HAVE it all!
[info]pjn161 wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 09:25 am (UTC)
Dont you just love it when some overpaid, over-opinionated, deluded and sneering malcontent champions a cause they profess to know so much about?
Might I offer a slightly impartial opinion here?
As a man nearing 50, with three wonderful daughters in their 20`s (all successful) and my wife of 28 years thoroughly enjoying a career of her choosing as she approaches 50, I find myself... this privileged "male", thrown on the scrapheap, struggling to get interviews let alone a decent wage to help pay my bills.
This same male sees the employment market flooded with part time jobs occupied by women who 50 years ago had no interest in work, and obviously as such, there are limited vacancies for jobs, so as more women apply, less men are employed.
I see the shelves in shops that were once graced by Womens weekly, Womens own, and Women`s friend, groaning under the strain of garishly coloured magazines in their thousands promising the perfect make-over and the perfect multiple orgasm for TEENS!!!, I see heat, and Closer and OK and "not-so-Ok" .. I see the high street populated by 20% banks and money advisors, and 79% cosmetics, clothes, nail parlours, beauty salons.
I see almost every TV advert aimed directly at the female purse (half of which use the male of the species as points of ridicule)
I see a benefit system and a judicial system that is now so "PC" that you can commit anything from Murder to adultery and be acquitted on the basis of your hormone levels at the time of the crime.
I see a health system that demands hundreds of millions to cure breast cancer (as it should) but ZERO campaigns for testicular or prostate cancer.
I see well-woman clinics in ever health centre , but see men dying younger and younger through lack of advice or information or help.
I see TV presenters who mangle their pronunciations and expose their ineptitude by the day , yet become "zelebs" overnight because of who they sleep with and insist on telling us its their divine right to do so as a woman.

get real woman!
This is YOUR world now.
You wanted equality, and you got it.
Unfortunately, you have done with it, exactly what man did.
Exploited it, abused it, taken it for granted, and demand more.

My daughters, my sisters, my wife, and many of my friends, are shining living examples of what a bitter and twisted greedy fraud you 21st century feminists are.
Re: Here, you can HAVE it all!
[info]ilestlouis wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 10:20 am (UTC)

More women in employment does not mean less men are able to be employed. You may have noticed that the job market has changed slightly in the last 50 years. There are far more total jobs, and the makeup of the traditional sectors has completely changed.

I agree with you on two points: the pendulum has swung too far towards women's health issues and more attention is needed to be directed at male health (although research shows men are their own worst enemy when it comes to their health). And the crassness of celebrity culture is a disappointing development, and is at least in part due to women's increased media and earning power.

However, do not conflate these problems with the achievements of feminism. What do you think a 21st century feminist is? Are they all presiding over some conspiracy to destroy the modern man? Or are they actually just living their lives, battling to juggle a career with a home life that's just as demanding as ever?

Feminism only means access to the same opportunities as men - if you look up the definition of feminism, you will find your wife and daughters would fit the description very well.
Getting Real - [info]karishmatishash - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 10:50 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Getting Real - [info]ilestlouis - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 11:46 am (UTC) Expand
Thank you, Yasmin!
[info]surreymother wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 09:33 am (UTC)
I don't agree with everything you write, Yasmin, but boy (or should it be girl!) do I agree with you on this.
I sometimes feel that I am the lone voice in the desert, speaking up for feminism to those around me - it's seen as impolite and of course it is very unfeminine to be impolite.
I believe there is a strong misogynist element to the Anglo Saxon culture, particularly prevalent during the Clinton-Obama primaries. That whole episode showed that gender bias is stronger than racism.

And as for positive discriminatiion, do all these middle class, white men really think they got to where they are on merit? Get a grip on reality - you make up less than one quarter of the population.

My husband and I will make sure that our thirteen year old daughter will grow up thinking she can have it all. Jill Berry is entitled to her views, although I question whether being a head of girls' school is where she is best suited. It is the glee with which the press jumped on her remarks which is so infuriating.
Feminism
[info]annelew wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 09:45 am (UTC)
Women can be and often are their own worst enemies. I and a male colleague interviewed a young girl for a post. She turned up showing 90% of her ample cleavage, he was well up for giving her the job. She hadn't been aware I was also in on the interview

I have worked my way up on my merits, but there are still women amongst us who jiggle their mammaries to get ahead, so its not a 100% male originated problem. How can men respect women like this? Easy they don't , they're just a bit of fluff to decorate the office, and we all get tarred.

I sacrificed my career to be at home for my children, the old man left and took his money with him. I am left with a mediocre job on mediocre money but hey I've got two well balanced happy kids to my credit. It isn't logistically possible to be a hands on mum and have a career. I just don't see why we judge each other for whichever choice we make

Regards the derogatory comment about Posh Spice...Mrs Beckham married her husband and then had his children. That to me is a role model, not those that squeeze out 5 kids by 5 different blokes, which appears to be totally acceptable these days. Some women have no standards. How do their kids view them when they are aware?

confirmed
[info]francetta wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 09:50 am (UTC)
Here is the GLARING evidence of what Yasmin writes in the above article; women hating so much so, that they are reduced to hating themselves. The western version of taliban dogma. The venom and hate is real.
And for the record...
[info]annelew wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 09:53 am (UTC)
I believe that both sexes deserve to be treated with respect and valued for their individual qualities

So to the men reading this, I am offended on your behalf when ads boast 'even a man could do it'

White,heterosexual and male.
[info]wakey67 wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 09:55 am (UTC)
Hello everyone, may I introduce myself, I'm probably the man that Yasmin is talking about, I am after all white, heterosexual and male, which in this world, according to Yasmin, is the ultimate sin. I am the cause of ALL the worlds ill's, I cause wars, I crash the economic system, I marginalise women, I’m prejudiced against ethnic minorities, I persecute those of a different sexual gender, I can't clean up, I can't look after my children, I can't manage my own finances, I try desperately to cling onto my youth by A. Buying a flash sports car B. Getting a younger woman to pretend she's in love with me, you name it’s all my fault. My name, oh it's Mr Stereotype, yes that’s me, I'm the one that every hard working, devoted father, who doesn't treat people any differently regardless of their race or sexual gender, who is able to manage domestically, loves his wife/partner and is just a normal human being, is accused of being in the media, be that TV advertisements, TV shows, TV sitcoms, magazines, newspaper columns etc. Yes I'm Mr Stereotype, I do exist, there are a few of us around, however, most of us are figments of the imagination of people who should know better, people who should look at the men around them and the white, heterosexual males who do good things. As Mr Stereotype I'm thinking of writing a column and sending it to The Independent, it's going to be about women and I'm going to use Katie Price/Sarah Palin/Belle De Jour et al as examples of the modern women, I'm sure Yasmin will love it, either that or she will accuse me of being a narrow minded, bigot who should get off my ivory tower and join the rest of us in the real world. I’d love to meet Yasmin, we could do lunch and of course we would just HAVE to split the bill.
Women are over 50% of the popupalation
[info]bevfor wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 10:10 am (UTC)
Yet as the writer points out we are vastly under-represented in politics, executive board rooms or anywhere else that matters. I really think that as countries that treat women as second class citizens get more power women will lose theirs, rather than development bringing enhancing women's rights. Women beware!
However the problem with Baroness Ashton is that even if she is the most able woman on earth - nobody voted for her.
Re: Women are over 50% of the popupalation
[info]idontvote wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 11:36 am (UTC)
Yes, you are also under-represented on the front line in war, on road gangs, on building sites, bin collections, in fact, in most hard graft jobs.
But these are not sit down jobs are they! Feminists only ever whinge about being under-represented in top jobs, but are unwilling to take up any bottom jobs, mmm, I wonder why?
My job over the past 30 years, involves me working around peoples houses, I have NEVER in all that time, seen a man that stays at home doing virtually nothing and is totally supported by a woman.
Want to be equal, then act equal.
Re: Women are over 50% of the population - [info]bevfor - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 02:30 pm (UTC) Expand
Confused
[info]karishmatishash wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 10:10 am (UTC)
I come from Bangladesh, a Muslim dominated country. As a western educated woman in my late 20's from the upper class, the issue of feminism has become increasingly vague to me. One would think writers like Ms. Brown would be able to clarify the exact definition of feminism. If women want a full time career, shouldn't they be willing to sacrifice the joys of being a home-maker? My mother and most of my aunts are home-makers, I consider them role models because its their sacrifice that has landed girls like me in a much better place. I believe a feminist is not your typical bra-burning, men-hating, power hungry career oriented individuals. A home-maker with a successful family life, well educated children and a loving husband is a highly successfully feminist, as long as she is doing this out of free will and not the expectations of society, religion or even family traditions. Being unfashionable is a personal choice, so is not wearing maker. Its definitely not a sign of independence or feminism.If young women are expected to be pretty and thin, young men are expected to be muscular and dashing, successful and wealthy. Thus men are under a lot more pressure. Could it be that all these resentments have risen from the fact that because most young women of my generation and background have been raised with equal expectations as their male siblings, that we are finally feeling the pressures that has been typically borne by boys? A woman always has the much easier option -marriage and all her economic responsibilities are usually taken over by their husbands. Men on the other hand do not have this easy option. So it goes both ways. It is true, our society is still male dominated and there are plenty of chauvinists around. But I think the author has completely ignored those men who raise their daughters with sometimes more resources and support than they invest on their son's. Husbands who juggle between family and work because they understand their wife's need for a career and independence. I agree such men are rare, but its a tragedy that they always go unrecognised. I do not agree with Ms.Brown when she says most nations would like to see women retreat into the home. If that were the case then backward developing countries like Bangladesh would not have a rising number of women in all sectors of the work force. A suggestion to authors who gripe about feminism, try to define the word clearly and with examples before going on and on about the subject. . Women are increasingly being given the benefits of positive discrimination. Makes no sense to be so bitter and resentful, maybe its time we appreciated the benefits of being a a modern woman and recognise that its the obstacles that makes us stronger.
[info]mistymt wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 10:20 am (UTC)
brilliant article. And can I add why are women, especially women who also happen to be mothers, and who are setting up their own business referred to patronisingly as Mumpreneurs, working mums or even more recently in research commissioned by Avon as Lipstick Entrepreneurs? You don't hear men referred to as working dads, or 'dadpreneurs'? We live in a chauvinistic society no matter how advanced we think the UK is!
[info]odubtaig wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 03:08 pm (UTC)
I've got to post something positive somewhere. I agree with this, I agree with the main article. The woman I love will also agree with this article if she reads it (if she has the time).

All I see disagreeing with it are the usual self-absorbed whiny sods who can't bear the thought of ever having to pull their own weight in the world ("whine, whine, I've been at work all day"), the kind of mysoginistic women who drag everyone down ("ooh, it's all too confusing for women when they have freedom, we need our chains") and SWM with a persecution complex who claims to have never met a househusband despite having a job that involves visiting people in their homes, which is odd given that I know more than one just socially.

As someone else has already said, these people are the proof if ever it were needed. In the same way Nick Griffin claims the White British Male to be 'minority' these entitled shits claim the mantle of victimhood as if they had any right to it, as all oppressors do.

But as a man who does not rest comfortably expecting to be waited on hand and foot, as someone whose sense of worth is intrinsically bound to his treatment of others and an inabilty to be with anyone I couldn't respect as an equal I've come to the understanding that with the lads magazines (look at the actual sales figures and tell me they represent a majority), the newfound 'repectability' of porn and the ongoing media collusion to sell women more 'beauty' products they don't need along with the Ol' Boys Club's desire to continue to never have to pull their weight, the main thrust of the modern media outlets' message is to convince women that the fight is over. Whether they believe feminism has won or can never win makes not difference to these old comfortable chauvanists, so long as women stop fighting.

Of course, they're backed up from the top to the bottom by a line-up of mysoginistic men who want an easy life with virgin-whores who cook for them, clean for them, are 24/7 sex dolls and wipe their arses for them.

Of course, I expect the usual load of abuse from 'hard men' safe in the anonymity of the internet but really, it's a weak man who whines and whinges about having to actually treat others as equals.
@odubtaig - [info]domoresti - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 06:32 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: @odubtaig - [info]odubtaig - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 08:05 pm (UTC) Expand
The sorry state of Miss England
[info]red_planet92 wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 10:34 am (UTC)
Boorish, brutish sexism?

Don't worry Yasmin, I've noticed women are catching men up in many areas ... only the other day I read that 'Miss England' had to step down from her high (heels) office having punched 'Miss England' repeatedly in the face in some bar. I also spoke to a taxi driver recently who said he refused to pick up more than 2 women as they are more likely to fight, vomit or run off without paying. Women doing it for themselves - no need for men!

Re: The sorry state of Miss England
[info]red_planet92 wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 10:45 am (UTC)
CORRECTION:

Oops, I meant ... "having punched 'Miss MANCHESTER"
[info]colinxy wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 11:02 am (UTC)
The issue isn't about women or men. It's about the behaviour of women and men that is encouraged by society. Women have always been encouraged to manipulate men to get by - so they do, but that doesn't mean they have the upper hand. Men are encouraged to dominate others - including women - so they do, but that doesn't mean they have it all their own way.

Society needs to encourage women to express themselves in more meaningful ways, and men to put their energies into improving communities instead of trying to be number one all the time.
I guess I must live in a bubble...
[info]devilwidget wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 11:18 am (UTC)
Sexists? Let me at them! Seriously, I'd like to meet one. I am 26 (not old, I know), and think of myself as fairly average. I have a social life and have lived in a few different cities/towns over the years, but I have never met a sexist (aside from of course feminists, who your not allowed to call sexists, even though they are). Every man I know acknowledges the inherent differences between men and women, and acts accordingly. They don't like women who are mean, same as they don't like men who are mean, nor ones who are bad-tempered, racist, pedantic or aggresive. Do these men, who hate women so much, live in a bubble, or do I? Do they only exist in the over thirties (if so, sexism IS on it's way out), or only live in London? For Yasmin to assume sexism is as abundant as she says is an oversight. I stand up for all the men I have ever met, who think women are sometimes lovely and sometimes horrible, sometimes capable and sometimes entirely incapable, depending on circumstance, timing and the creature in general. Just like men.
Re: I guess I must live in a bubble...
[info]ilestlouis wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 12:00 pm (UTC)


I am glad to hear you and your friends are fair-minded and treat women as individuals. Happily, this is my experience of the vast majority of my male peers, too.

Unfortunately, research (and many a lawsuit) has proven that conditions for women in certain fields continue to be unfairly weighted against women. Outcomes are what matter, not anecdotal stories about people's own experience. And while women in the military, the police, the legal profession and finance are still struggling for promotions and fighting misogynist seniors, there are still aspects we need to change.

As to declaring that all feminists are sexist - do us a favour, and treat feminists just like you treat women in general - according to their individual merit. Not all feminists are Andrea Dworkin (look it up).

A final point - many feminists in this country are fighting for the shockingly curtailed rights of women in the developing world.
Re: I guess I must live in a bubble... - [info]devilwidget - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 03:04 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I guess I must live in a bubble... - [info]madjeffgreen - Monday, 23 November 2009 at 10:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Baroness Cathy Ashton
[info]undart wrote:
Monday, 23 November 2009 at 11:45 am (UTC)
Your article seems to have missed the point completely, at least as far as I am concerned. My understanding of people's objection to this appointment, as with the appointment of Mr Van Rompuy, was not that they were women. Although I have never met the man, I am pretty certain that Mr Van Rompuy is not a woman. The thing that people find unsettling is that they were unelected. In the case of Baroness Ashton she has apparently never been elected for anything to do with politics.
Whilst she might in fact be a perfectly nice and very competent person and do the job very well, I along with many others like to cling to the perhaps outdated trappings of democracy and vote for somebody who is going to represent me rather than have them thrust upon me. To then be accused of sexism when such a thought had not crossed my mind adds insult to injury.
I don't care whether she is a woman, a man or a cross dresser but I would have liked the opportunity to have found out something about my two, new representatives in Europe, before having them chosen for me in secret.
Perhaps you should read a little about the subject in hand before writing about it.
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