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Leading article: A smart and tough approach to Islamist extremism

The Government is right to take on the unrepresentative minority

The Government unveiled a new strategy yesterday designed to curb domestic Islamist radicalisation. A rethink was certainly in order. The suspension earlier this week of official ties with the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) was a vivid demonstration of the shortcomings of the previous strategy.

In the wake of the London bombings of July 2005, the Government invited the MCB to Downing Street for discussions on how to respond to the growth of extremism among young British Muslims. Public money was channelled to the organisation to help it turn the young away from terror. But it turned out that, despite its name, the MCB was not actually representative of British Muslims, and it had little clout with those individuals the Government needed to influence.

The problem is that British Muslims are a diverse and fragmented community. Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Somalis, Iraqis and Nigerians living in Britain all have different cultures, outlooks and economic circumstances. The lesson is that it would be better for the Government to decentralise its approach to dealing with British Muslims, rather than trying to communicate through a single umbrella organisation of doubtful authority such as the MCB. It is unclear from yesterday's strategy document whether this lesson has been fully taken on board.

The new strategy is right, however, to advocate a verbal confrontation with those activists and preachers who advocate cultural separatism and intolerance. In the wake of the London attacks, there was some confusion about the nature of British Islam. There was uncertainty among the broader public and policymakers about how deep the roots of extremism went.

Now, thankfully, we have a much clearer view. The overwhelming majority of British Muslims are productive members of society. They reject religious extremism and are appalled by the use of their religion to justify acts of terrorism.

But there is a hardcore and vocal element in the Muslim community which has a divisive agenda and which, though it does not practise violence itself, swims in the same ideological waters as those who do. This group does grievous damage to community relations through their stunts, such as the disgraceful picketing of the Royal Anglian Regiment's homecoming parade in Luton earlier this month. These are the individuals the Government, and indeed all of us, ought to challenge and isolate. They should invite the same sort of rebuttal and public censure as the racist far right presently receives.

More broadly, any successful strategy for curbing extremism has to involve the school system. Children coming to Britain from abroad need to be instructed in the values and culture of their host nation. Indeed, all children, not just the foreign-born, would benefit from such an emphasis on the system of toleration and mutual respect that we have built in Britain.

Dealing with ideological extremism is inescapably difficult for the authorities. The task involves treading a perilously fine line between respecting everyone's right to free speech and arresting those whose activities tip over to incitement. Wrong decisions can easily inflame matters.

But the heartening news is that by standing up for the principles of moderation, and robustly isolating the preachers of intolerance, the Government will be going with the grain of majority British Muslim opinion. The battle against radicalisation is one that can – and must – be won.

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[info]bobsterama wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 02:09 am (UTC)
A government can either sell weapons to Israel or it can "stand up for the principles of moderation".

It can't do both.

Stupid
[info]exec_ceo wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 04:10 am (UTC)
An article on nutty islamic fundamentalists, and already we have a clown, bobsterama, trying to shift blame onto Israel for what other people do.
Re: Stupid - [info]solcreciente - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 06:38 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Stupid - [info]exec_ceo - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 03:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Stupid - [info]solcreciente - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 08:47 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Stupid - [info]exec_ceo - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 03:54 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Stupid - [info]solcreciente - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 08:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Idiot - [info]brugnac - Thursday, 26 March 2009 at 07:56 am (UTC) Expand
Integrity - where?
[info]nonviolence1 wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 03:03 am (UTC)
"But the heartening news is that by standing up for the principles of moderation, and robustly isolating the preachers of intolerance" Ah let us see if editor would apply same to present Israeli leaders - my guess - no. how about Netanyahu speaking in the Knesset on 29 December 2008 quoted the prophet Amos of the Hebrew Bible. ?and I shall send fires on to the walls of Gaza? as sufficient reason for the Israeli assault on Gaza and the massacre of civilians. Avigdor Lieberman, speaking at Bar-Ilan University, ?We must continue to fight Hamas just like the United States did with the Japanese in World War II .? According to reports in Israeli media, he said the US nuclear strikes had rendered an ?occupation of the country ? unnecessary.? Far, far worse quotes from previous Israeli PMs available. As bobsterama points out "A government can either sell weapons to Israel or it can "stand up for the principles of moderation". - want to see various photos of UK Prime Minister etc with these leaders etc. You editors just don't get it - it being what is occurring and has been since 1948.
Re: Integrity - where?
[info]exec_ceo wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 04:12 am (UTC)
And, here we have another person who sees crazy islamic fundamentalists causing terrorism all over the place, yet instead of discussing that, starts blaming Israel for what crazy islamic fundamentalists do
British McCarthyism
[info]cardrew wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 03:04 am (UTC)
Parading the Royal Anglican Regiment through Luton was an antagonistic act.
These soldiers are not defending Britain abroad, they are a mercenary force in an illegal war, murdering innocent women and children, they deserve the contempt they received.

Now the government is trying to say that anyone who protests against them is unpatriotic, when the reality is the government betrayed the British people.

Jack and Jacqui cannot be trusted, they are the last people we need to enact more legislation. Are they going to deny us citizenship if we do not sign to say that we agree with their dogma?

Just when USA is moving away from the extremism of Bush, Britain appears to be subscribing to this agenda.

Once the national database is in operation, anyone who disagrees with the government will be classified as an undesirable. The government is practicing a British form of McCarthyism.

If you want to start to integrate muslims (and there are over 1M) we need to exit Iraq, and persuade the next Israeli government to respect human rights, then Britain will seen as a just society. If you want to tackle muslim extremism why not start with the Saudi leaders?

This government has done more to destroy Britain than Thatcher.
Re: British McCarthyism
[info]exec_ceo wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 04:13 am (UTC)
And here we have person number three who thinks that if hundreds of thosuands of ultra-religious muslims in england aren't integrating properly like everyone else does, it's somehow the fault of israeli jews

This is wild stuff.

Re: British McCarthyism - [info]sara_sense - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 01:14 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: British McCarthyism - [info]wormery - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 01:58 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: British McCarthyism - [info]exec_ceo - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 03:55 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: British McCarthyism - [info]sara_sense - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 04:22 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: British McCarthyism - [info]almightymat - Friday, 27 March 2009 at 02:35 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: British McCarthyism - [info]colinru - Thursday, 26 March 2009 at 03:46 pm (UTC) Expand
Bunch of idiotic comments
[info]jim1212 wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 03:40 am (UTC)
the issue here is how to deal with extremists in the uk. Some of the people here are making really stupid comments.
Firstly, You do not get Israelies in the UK preaching terrorism but you do with the islamic extremists.
Secondly, there might be atrocities accoring in palestine but so are there atrocities all over the world but you dont see them trying to blow our country up or incite those acts. Only the islamic exteremists are hell bent on doing so, its part of the radical ideology, and it wont stop at the iraq war or israel. (Two areas which will take time to sort out) In the mean you cant use israel as some kind of excuse of the acts of these extremists, these are human beings which make their own decisions. If they decide to incite hatred they should be dealt with accordingly.
Thirdly ur idea of branding our army as mercinaries is rediculous. The army only acts on what the British governent tells them to do, and it is us that votes the government in. Even after the Iraq war we voted in the labour government so quit saying we didnt like the british foreign policy, if it was such a sticking point for British citizens we would of not voted them fact. Fact of the matter is and thus the army is working on what we want and not as mercenaries.
One thing i have noticed is that the comments from non violence and cardrew tackle the issues very simplistically, and dont fully analyse the situation at hand. It seems to be very much based on gut emotion, and blaming us. Why dont you take a step back and actually think maybe these terrorists are the ones in the wrong not us!!
Re: Bunch of idiotic comments
[info]nonviolence1 wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 04:00 am (UTC)
Because the UK needs to take the responsibility it would not take in 1917 (and the USA is hands of Zionists). Read Lord Montagu (only Jew in the British cabinet at the time of the Balfour Declaration) very detailed memo to British cabinet about the Declaration (it was anti-Semitic etc). i have nearly 70,000 words so you ask and I'll respond in detail. I haven't any doubt the Western nations had no right legally to allow Israel to declare illegal independence. My main thrust is that eventually we have to abide by international law and I know that the UK has done a very great wrong and at some point, however long it takes, it needs to admit that and start correcting it. Read Sir Thomas More for he knew that we dare not lose our respect for the law - it is above what we want or do not want.
Re: Bunch of idiotic comments - [info]exec_ceo - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 04:15 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Bunch of idiotic comments - [info]nonviolence1 - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 04:27 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Bunch of idiotic comments - [info]exec_ceo - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 03:56 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Bunch of idiotic comments - [info]exec_ceo - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 04:14 am (UTC) Expand
It's sick seeing idiots blame Israeli Jews for what Muslims do
[info]exec_ceo wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 04:17 am (UTC)

Various people who don't like to be called anti-semites have a strange habit of blaming Israeli Jews for what Israeli Jews do, AND blame Israeli Jews for what crazy palestinian extremists do, AND blame Israeli Jews for what looney british muslim fundamentalists do, AND blame Israeli jews for what looney nutjobs in africa do, etc.

But they aren't anti-semites. The're anti-war peace activists! Yeah! That's the ticket!

/end sarcasm
Re: It's sick seeing idiots blame Israeli Jews for what Muslims do
[info]victormc wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 08:13 am (UTC)
exec-co. Why do you bother to reply to these lunatics? When the next bomb planted by the Muslim nut brigade goes off in Britain which surely is only a matter of time the crackpots you are responding to will say Mossad did it. Leave them alone, they refuse to take their pills so let them rot in peace.
Who is watching the Sky news coverage the whole week of the takeover by Islamists of the home of terror - Pakistan? If you don't you are missing something......This morning their cameras followed (in full view) the Taliban leader in Swat province who the ludicrous 'government' of Pakistan said they could not find.
It's only a matter of time before the military take over there- again. I bet Mossad could 'find' him.
Nut cases
[info]voodoojedizin wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 06:31 am (UTC)
Why are you always talking about Islamic extremism?

What about the nut case Christians in the United States that back Israel with guns and money so they can bring about the second coming? I think that's extremism.

What about the nut case Christians in the bush administration talking about the great crusade?

What about rabbis in Israel brainwashing their soldiers with religious scrap so they'll go kill women and children is that extremism?

I think somebody better make a definition about what is extreme, or is it just any non western religion.
Re: Nut cases
[info]wormery wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 11:26 am (UTC)
Errr...because it's the muslims who are the terrorist threat and who blew up tube trains and attempted to plant many other bombs and are continuing to do so.

Sadly we have lots of lower class pakistani literalist muslims in the UK (we let way too many in and they do not 'enrich' society - but threaten and impoverish it) and about 45% support the terrorists and 15% activley so. 15,000 islamofascists are planning terrorism in the UK.

We now have a ban on criticising islam and cartoons and books and jokes about islam. THAT makes me sick.

And this islamofascist terrorism has NOTHING to do with wetsren powers in iraq or afghanistan - another leftie lie. These muslims want a caliphate and to destroy the west. They'll fail of course but they can plant bombs.

That is why we need a total integration policy in the UK, muslims reeducated, imams sent home, traitor muslims interred or sent to pakistan, a law forcing all to speak english, an acknowledgement that the UK is a liberal democracy from Christian heritage (not multifaith at all), and the policies by councils, schools, universities, and government to follow this thru and stop pandering to multiculti madness.

But please, do tell the next time a priest or a rabbi plants a bomb or boos Britisn soldiers or spouts views (in the UK) that are practically nazi. Islam IS the fascism of our age - and we MUST end the appeasement.
Re: Nut cases - [info]adam_y - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 02:19 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Nut cases - [info]wormery - Thursday, 26 March 2009 at 02:59 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Nut cases - [info]sickofstupidity - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 04:50 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Nut cases - [info]almightymat - Friday, 27 March 2009 at 02:50 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Nut cases - [info]exec_ceo - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 03:57 pm (UTC) Expand
A tough approach
[info]undart wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 07:45 am (UTC)
I am English and was brought up to be proud of my country and to respect it. Thus when my country does something that I perceive to be wrong, i.e., getting involved with torture or illicit rendition flights, I wish to protest about it and get it stopped legally, not through violent means, because I respect my country and think better of it than to resort to violence.
All of society improves by its shared history and the greatest threat to the fragmentation of our society at present is the destruction of a common language. It is utter nonsense to allow so many different languages to be taught in schools which encourages isolationism. In France, when a child attends school, whatever their country of origin, they are taught in French. Thus they are included in society and want to be included.
Time for local councils to stop translating documents into 30 different languages which is devisive and expensive.
If you wish to live in a country, learn its language and its laws. That way you become part of society.
I know from living in France, that when you speak a countries language, you feel part of that society. I still cheer on England at the six nations rugby but a part of me now goes 'Allez les Blues!'
Re: A tough approach
[info]sickofstupidity wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 04:59 pm (UTC)
Hear hear - seconded!
NOT TO LATE
[info]alharazi wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 08:23 am (UTC)
I have lived in the UK since early 1990s and I always felt that MCB did not truly represent every or at least the majority of the British muslims, especailly the Arabs.
Althought some might say: it is too late, but I would agree with the Governmet strategy to advocate a verbal dailogue with those activists and preachers who advocate cultural seperatism and intolerance, among them of course, those who want to settle in the U.K , but live as if they are in their native country.
Luckly there not many of them and they could easily be challenged and isolates, if not sent back to where they come from .
If education is a blatant lie.........
[info]guayacan wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 08:25 am (UTC)
....then why do the public think that the young muslims would gladly accept it. The real truth about this is that the threat to Britain came from Osama Bin Laden due to their support of the war in Afghanistan. Bush and Blair then lobbied for the war on Iraq with (quite obvious) lies against a muslim country that had no links with OBL. Even today the media, schools, intellectuals et al, report their disgust at the way in which these two country leaders committed a massive attack on an innocent country (innocent as to the claims made for the necessity for war). What does terrorism mean, and what have the Iraqis suffered?. Now the big point. The problem here is that OBL did not go to war for money. He did not lie to his people or any other muslim. His quotes from the Quran are genuine extracts. He is charged purely by his faith and the injustice that muslims have suffered. This is true. Bush and Blair.......?.
So what education would you suggest your children study. Children are not idiots, they can understand the media. they understand injustice. None of this will change until Bush and Blair stand trial for their actions in which British troops were used in a terrorist attack on Iraq, and rightfully challenged by the people with free speech in Luton. I am not a muslim, and I am certainly not a christian. This government needs replacing and Blair needs to be on trial in the Hague.
If the education is a blatant lie...........
[info]guayacan wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 08:28 am (UTC)
....then why do the public think that the young muslims would gladly accept it. The real truth about this is that the threat to Britain came from Osama Bin Laden due to their support of the war in Afghanistan. Bush and Blair then lobbied for the war on Iraq with (quite obvious) lies against a muslim country that had no links with OBL. Even today the media, schools, intellectuals et al, report their disgust at the way in which these two country leaders committed a massive attack on an innocent country (innocent as to the claims made for the necessity for war). What does terrorism mean, and what have the Iraqis suffered?. Now the big point. The problem here is that OBL did not go to war for money. He did not lie to his people or any other muslim. His quotes from the Quran are genuine extracts. He is charged purely by his faith and the injustice that muslims have suffered. This is true. Bush and Blair.......?.
So what education would you suggest your children study. Children are not idiots, they can understand the media. they understand injustice. None of this will change until Bush and Blair stand trial for their actions in which British troops were used in a terrorist attack on Iraq, and rightfully challenged by the people with free speech in Luton. I am not a muslim, and I am certainly not a christian. This government needs replacing and Blair needs to be on trial in the Hague.
I say enough with the hypocrisy
[info]palestinelives wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 08:47 am (UTC)
U want to fight terrorism - all sorts of terrorism? How about not sponsor it?

How about stop supplying the terrorist, racist, murdering Zionists in Palestine (now called Israel) with money and arms to kill more innocent Palestinians and expel much more; to assert its apartheid regime that defies all the "civilized world's laws"?

How about draw ur troops from Iraq and Afghanistan to put an end to an occupation that has only brought more suffering to the occupied, resentment to the occupier (urself) and consequently violence into this world?

Are u that much blind and deaf?

U want to fight terrorism? Fight all sorts of terrorism.
Re: I say enough with the hypocrisy
[info]exec_ceo wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 03:59 pm (UTC)
palestinelives: You are another liar.

Palestine is NOT now called Israel.

80% of Palestine is now called JORDAN.

About 12% is now called Israel.

About 8% is the west bank and gaza strip.

80 percent of Palestine became Jordan - [info]exec_ceo - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 04:00 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 80 percent of Palestine became Jordan - [info]sickofstupidity - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 05:09 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: 80 percent of Palestine became Jordan - [info]sickofstupidity - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 05:14 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I say enough with hypocrisy
[info]kodak321 wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 10:08 am (UTC)
Someone's feeling a little hot under the collar.....more boyfriend troubles. Dear oh dear. You two have got to sort it out. Who's the dominant one? Palestinelives, you sound like you enjoy taking it. Remember, make him wear a condom, petal.
Islamic Extremism
[info]juliandbsmith wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 10:52 am (UTC)
Why should we give any credence to people who delusionally believe in non-existent beings and demand respect for those beliefs? Furthermore some of these people are prepared to distort the education of the young, restrict the rights of others and kill and maim in pursuit of those crazy ideas. If I harm others or myself when mentally ill I can expect to be sectioned, medicated and confined. Why is religion treated differently to other forms of mental illness?
Re: Islamic Extremism
[info]sickofstupidity wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 05:30 pm (UTC)
Because, unfortunately, what constitutes 'mental health' and 'mental illness' is usually decided by the majority view. And as the majority of the human race is, tragically, infected with one religious mind-virus or another, this particular form of mental illness is classes as 'normal' - i.e. mental health. And, perversely, it is the minority of sane, uninfected people such as you and I who are seen as 'abnormal', and mentally ill.

Of course, according to the IQ bell-curve, 50% of the human race is intellectually sub-normal, and a meta-study of IQ versus religiosity surveys has shown that religiosity is more prevalent in the lower 50% than in the upper 50%.

Now, you would have thought that people could deduce something quite significant from those statistics, but I guess you have to be in the upper 10% or so to be able to join the dots. And then you are in a minority again, of course, so the other 90% don't listen to you...
[info]wormery wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 11:05 am (UTC)
It's all 30 years too late. After decades of allowing anyone with a dark skin and a religion to promote whatever filthy and fascism they wanted too - muslims in particular have - the people who told us to 'celebrate multiculturalism' now decide that they have to do something.

Well, after allowing islamofascists to thrive in Londonistan, giving them public finding, inviting the bearded nazis from the muslim council to number 10, not prosecuting muslims who called for the death of salman rushdie, calling anyone who disgrees 'racist - after all that, NOW the powers than be realise they were wrong and integrationism and stoppping islamofascist spreading their filth is the way forward after all, so a blind eye will no longer be turned to the facsism, bigotry, racism, sexism, anti-white, anti-western extremism of muslims (or will it?).

The cat's out of the bag baby and we now have the enemy withing every major city in western europe.
MCB Do Represent Muslims
[info]tahmeena wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 11:22 am (UTC)
How can you say whether a group does or does not represent Muslims? I am a Muslim and I feel represented by MCB.

This article is simply racist and undermines the values of democracy. According to its author, it is not our right to demonstrate, and demonstrate against soldiers who fought in an illegal war. These soldiers are effectively war criminals.

And yes, the Muslim community in the UK is diverse; but not fragmented. As an Indian Muslim, I may have a different economic situation to a Pakistani or a Somali, but our religion does not segregate on terms of wealth so we still all have the same values. The MCB represents over 500 different organisations, schools and mosques so all the different racial groups fall in under one group to represented as one body.
Re: MCB Do Represent Muslims
[info]wormery wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 12:06 pm (UTC)
No, you are racist like the jew-hating nazi-hammas-loving MCB you agree with. They hate jews, want to kill salman rushdie, promote a backwards literalist islam as the only one, and are a poison in the blood of Britain.

The MCB does not believe in liberal democracy or pluralism, believes that 'apostates' and those leaving islam should be kiled - oh and gay people should be hanged publically - and also demands that no criticism should ever be made of islam or muslims - no jokes, no cartoons, no questioning of literalist islam or the lies and extremism in the koran.

Sadly, poilticians in the past licked muslim arse to get votes and allowed the muslim council members (fascists in all but name) into the discussions at number 10. Sick.

My advice - if you and other islamists don;t like our system then leave my country so only integrated muslims remain. Gulam Noon and Salman Rushie say the same.
Re: MCB Do Represent Muslims - [info]sickofstupidity - Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 07:35 pm (UTC) Expand
Principles of moderation
[info]thorntongate wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 11:58 am (UTC)
Yes, bobsterama, you have it right.

It continues to baffle and bemuse that a paper which includes Robert Fisk as a correspondent, and which had a good record during the recent attack on Gaza, fails to see that (a) the war on terror has been promoted by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, (b) was given a further push by the BBC's decision not to screen the Gaza appeal lest it offend its Zionists friends, and (c) it's a useful lightning rod to deflect criticism of the way we are governed away from government and onto a migrant community.

This chimes nicely with the already very popular Daily Express platform, and is called "playing the race card". It casts a sombre light on New Labour's long-since shot-to-ribbons bona fides, and that of The Indie as well.


ISRAEL, ISRAEL, ISRAEL
[info]why_tell_me_why wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 12:33 pm (UTC)
SO just to make sure i understand indepenent readers properly in a world where every country with a large Muslim contingent from the Philippines to Denmark to Nigeria has a problem with Islamic extremism as a result of Ideologies that can be traced back to reconquista and this issue cannot be even mentioned without the vast majority of ppl blaming Israel, even though every different group claims a different reason for taking up arms, ranging from self determination, to religious persecution, to straight world domination but one cannot take issue with it or hope to sort it out without first shackling Israel. Because then of course they'd be no Kashmir, no christian, muslim friction in nigeria, the lebanon, iran, No shia, sunni disagreement within the arab world, no friction between liberalising forces and orthodox muslim leaders, suddenly it would all disappear poof smoke into the ether.
[info]ashokmehta13 wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 01:43 pm (UTC)
Yes, a hard approach is required against Islamic extremism. But I do not agree that most Muslims in UK are moderates. The number of moderate Muslims in UK and indeed anywhere in the world can be counted on your fingers.Do not go by the so-called opinion polls in which people hide their true feelings. The vast majority of Muslims anywhere in the world are either extremists or their sympathisers. Most Muslims have not integrated themselves with the rest of the population in all Non-Muslim countries. They prefer to stay aloof in their ghettos. Why blame Israel, why don't Muslims recognise Israel's right to exist? If they do there would be peace in the M<iddle East and indeed elsewhere. Go back to history to the Muslim invasions of Europe and elsewhere in the world and you will find rapes pillages and forcible conversions, the order of the day. Even today the aim of most Muslims and this is based on Koranic texts and their interpretations is to establish D' Rul Islam in all Non-Muslim countries
"... deep the roots of extremism..."
[info]frank_reader wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 02:03 pm (UTC)
As soon as justice be done to those who has lost almost everything in life (with the support of the government) extremism will desappear.
'Robustly'?
[info]jaded63 wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 02:05 pm (UTC)

'Robust' has always been government cliche-speak for 'weak, confused, or non-existent'. The Indie is being very optimistic if it expects the government to be 'robustly isolating the preachers of intolerance.' At the moment those same preachers are operating with virtual immunity, unexposed to prosecution or expulsion from this country no matter what they say or do. I doubt very much whether a government which has been bowing before all things Islamic for a very long time will in any radical way change its craven inbuilt attitude or its feeble outward actions. Moreover, where the government in any way to take 'robust' action against Islamic extremism, it would immediately find itself stymied by the courts, which interpret EU Human Rights legislation as if it was a charter for Islamic extremism.
Typo
[info]jaded63 wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 02:22 pm (UTC)
In my last sentence, 'where' should be 'were'. Unfortunately there seems to be no edit facility for entries. I do loathe incorrect spelling and grammar.
Re: Typo
[info]wormery wrote:
Thursday, 26 March 2009 at 02:56 pm (UTC)
Take it easy - it's only a message board and typos are allowed and appropriate.
just stop the terror
[info]laserdent wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 05:49 pm (UTC)
First you have to agre that innocent people in briton have a right to protection from terror or that the british secirity forces and government are liars.

Just as one would wish to treat cancer in practise rather that in theory one must simply immediatly allow the police to limit the financial means that support terror and cooperate with countries such as Israel that have practicle experience with terror and how to limit it.

While any laws have to be inspected and judged it should be noted that unlike the usa waterboarding and such is illegal and the methods allowed in interrogation are regulated by a high court that has powers to impeach teh president for rape and cause the resignation of the prim minister on suspicion of fraud.
And Winston Smith realised that
[info]neil_mcgowan wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 07:51 pm (UTC)
he had ALWAYS loved Big Brother, and they had ALWAYS been at war with East-Asia, and he couldn't remember a time when he had not loved Big Brother or hated East-Asia.
Evidence!
[info]kodak321 wrote:
Wednesday, 25 March 2009 at 08:12 pm (UTC)
Extensive Lab tests in Israel have proved conclusively that most muslim men are repressed homosexuals. They prefer to cover their women, because they are attracted to men. Evidence shows that 1,400 years of kneeling to allah has given them a `bum love` preference. Evidence shows that growing a silly beard is part of this unfortunate repressed behaviour. As is, wearing long 'dresses', rambling, ranting.... and tossing...in public.
Fighting Extremism
[info]brugnac wrote:
Thursday, 26 March 2009 at 07:52 am (UTC)
Only when the so-called majority of moderate Muslims are seen to be combatting the so-called minority of extremist Muslims, will anyone be convinced that all Muslims don`t deserve to be blamed. Pathetic statements in front of TV cameras, following the latest atrocity, do nothing to persuade us of a real desire for elimination of the fanatics. Constantly being appraised of British born Muslims journeying to Pakistan for terrorist training doesn`t assuage our fears. If this silent majority doesn`t find its voice soon, then they will have only themselves to blame!!
Re: Fighting Extremism
[info]sickofstupidity wrote:
Friday, 27 March 2009 at 01:02 pm (UTC)
I have to agree, brugnac; peaceful Muslims do neither themselves nor us any favours by their continued silence and inaction regarding the extremists in their midst.

As the saying goes, 'All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing'.
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