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Expenses scandal

Leading article: Mr Cameron starts to repair the damage

The Tory leader did well, but public confidence will not return overnight

David Cameron's swift response yesterday to the damning revelations of abuses of the expenses system by a number of his MPs was a demonstration of the Tory leader's political surefootedness. By announcing that members of the Shadow Cabinet will pay back claims which look excessive (and that if Tory backbenchers fail to do the same they will be expelled from the party) Mr Cameron showed that his concern is for action, rather than words.

The Conservative leader also spoke passionately of why it is vital for the Tories, as a party that has been so critical of Labour's wasteful public spending, to set a moral lead on this matter. Mr Cameron knows that, for the country at large, the abuse of expenses is not only about the sums involved, but feeds into broader concerns over the trustworthiness of the entire political class.

But impressive though Mr Cameron's performance was, shoring up public confidence in the probity of the Conservative Party will be a tough and incremental job. None of the mainstream parties has emerged well from the expenses scandal. But the revelations pose a special problem for the Conservatives because of the party's recent image problems. The news that Tory MPs have claimed taxpayers' money to pay for the upkeep of moats, tennis courts and chandeliers is a serious public relations upset for Mr Cameron, threatening to undermine all his work in brand decontamination.

Such details serve to reinforce an old stereotype of the plutocratic Conservative grandee, hopelessly out of touch with the majority of British people, while in possession of a grotesque sense of self-entitlement. They could also undermine the central Conservative argument that, if elected, the party will restore rectitude to the public finances. What chance of that, people might ask, when some Tory MPs regard £1,000 gardening bills for their private estates as an appropriate use of taxpayers' cash?

Of course, for the public to blame Mr Cameron personally for the hypocrisy and greed of some of his backbench MPs would be grossly unfair. Mr Cameron did not choose the Conservative parliamentary party; he inherited it when he won the leadership. And those MPs who have abused the system most egregiously are not part – and were never likely to be part – of his frontbench team. Additionally, Mr Cameron has made commendable efforts to modernise the Conservative Party in recent years, ditching the old vote-losing Tory obsessions over Europe, tax cuts and immigration. And his frontbench's focus on improving Britain's public services, rather than devising ways for the wealthy to bypass them, is welcome too.

In recent years, Mr Cameron has dragged his party back from the unelectable fringes to the centre ground of politics. It would be a travesty if the "lord of the manor" lifestyle of some of his more irrelevant backbench MPs were to distract public attention from that achievement.

The Conservative leader made a fine start yesterday in repairing the damage, underlining his political astuteness. But sceptics will inevitably wonder whether he would have announced quite such resolute reforms of the system if these damning details had not come to light in the way they did. Mr Cameron would probably accept that, for all the progress made in recent years, the job of decontaminating the Conservative brand is still not quite complete.

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Comments

No! No! No!
[info]ismellwinter wrote:
Tuesday, 12 May 2009 at 11:37 pm (UTC)
A swift response?

Pay some back.Some! And that only applies to some of his party. And why stop at 4 years, it has been going on longer than that. Will they be paying interest?

Would an ordinary member of the public be treated so leniently? Just pay it back and all will be forgotten. Yeah right!!

Why did Cameron wait till today to take action? Was he hoping the Telegragh would not publish. I would have been far more impressed with him had 'fessed up last week. Cameron has been brought kicking and screaming to this point, far from leading, like Brown, he is just reacting to polls. Leaders are better than that.
Re: No! No! No!
[info]bowesy wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 04:50 am (UTC)
His comments are balanced and welcome - how would he have known prior to the publication?

Whilst some people may have assumed that the expenses were a bit risky - the scale of the misuse would have been hard to predict. At least he has taken some action and more maybe required.

Brown in contraast is sitting on his hands, being led by the prat Martin down roads any self respecting PM would never go down. Brown the useless strikes again and deals with the situation like a frenchman in war time. Pathetic
Re: No! No! No!
[info]bowesy wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 04:50 am (UTC)
His comments are balanced and welcome - how would he have known prior to the publication?

Whilst some people may have assumed that the expenses were a bit risky - the scale of the misuse would have been hard to predict. At least he has taken some action and more maybe required.

Brown in contraast is sitting on his hands, being led by the prat Martin down roads any self respecting PM would never go down. Brown the useless strikes again and deals with the situation like a frenchman in war time. Pathetic
Leading like Brown, you must be joking, ismellwinter.
[info]dave1234567890 wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 12:10 am (UTC)
Cameron has at least shown some leadership in this matter. Unless I am missing something, I haven't noticed Brown demanding that his Ministers pay back the money that they ripped off from the taxpayer. In fact as usual, Brown, apart from apologising for all the MPs, appears to have done precisely nothing about his ministers expenses. You say Cameron should have taken action last week, well without the disk which the Telegraph holds, how would either he,Brown or Clegg have known the information. Once the information was out he seems to have taken speedy action, unlike Brown.
Who To Vote for
[info]tomearl2 wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 12:28 am (UTC)
Two alternative scenarios:

I won't vote Labour because they have wrecked the public and private finances of this country, they will not be happy until everything we do is either banned or made compulsory, they pump money into an ever worsening health care and education system; they waste billions on ill considered so called "investment". their mission is to create a client state totally dependent on them; they are proven to have the ethics and morality of the gutter etc etc...

I must vote Conservative

Or...

I won't vote Conservative because some Conservative backbencher owns a moat....

I must vote Labour.

It's a difficult choice alright.
And that justifies voting for a party paid for by Lord Cashcroft?
[info]robertclondon wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 08:38 am (UTC)
Or should you vote for a party paid for by a multimillionaire who is so slippery he won't even say if he is a resident of the UK or Belize, Lord Ashcroft, and which has shown no interest before this in cleaning up MPs expenses until it was dragged kicking and screaming into the limelight?

Why not use your brain and vote Lib Dem? At least their MPs have made some efforts to try to get this cleaned up in advance of these revelations.
I told you these people are Satan in the angels? dresses.
[info]famulla wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 02:27 am (UTC)
Dracula is reborn.
See what the politicians have done so far. We are bankrupt then they send the injection to get rid of our bodies so they can eat more.
We have the ostrich runner who wins, then we Japan stating that the vaccines can be made from vaccines. Now we have this from DIT killing maniacs. Where are the politicians and the mental doctors?
An Australian euthanasia activist staged the first of a series of "suicide workshops" in Britain yesterday, in a town affectionately termed "God's waiting room" due to its elderly population.
Almost 100 people attended the event, held at a hotel in Bournemouth, to listen to Dr Philip Nitschke lay out the options for people wishing to kill themselves.
The doctor promoted his DIY suicide kit, which included an "exit bag" to use as a suffocation device and a selection of powerful drugs from Mexico. The Indians made these before they left the planet. They are now in Pluto that we have thrown The vast majority of his audience were of retirement age, many of them married couples.
Even the British Airways may join the waiting room if many old come up. Thank Allah. He had 100 only. I told you these people are Satan in the angels? dresses.
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla


In buccaneers' world every parrot has its day
[info]mackname wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 03:14 am (UTC)

As the guy on the other side of the world put it; 'I am the captain of a bunch of loonies.'
They won't..
[info]thisanthat wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 03:34 am (UTC)
be hurt or be out of pocket by this petty gesture to recapture some respect will they?
the sippery toff 'starts to repair the damage'
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 03:47 am (UTC)
after the facts were leaked by a 'whistleblower'
'Cameron has dragged his party back from the unelectable fringes'
[info]cronyblatcher wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 03:51 am (UTC)
of (jnthis instance nasty) conviction politics, to the slippery opportunistic 'centre' ground of having no perceptible convictions of ay kind (for longer tjhan 24)
David Cameron disciplines his MPs
[info]ollie_cromwell wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 04:08 am (UTC)
quest for a political party
[info]gowithwi wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 04:46 am (UTC)
mr cameron things that this will work as some sort of political bandaid , while the real issue is amputation.
the politics in this country remind me of some kind of yoyo. tory-labour-tory-labour-tory- labour etc.
let s look at some of the other parties . ahem. blimey, can t find much information on any other uk
political party. my internet search engine keeps jumping straight to irish political parties. if there are any out
there ,could anyone please list them and perhaps explain what their agendas are. i don t like the fact that 2
political parties have been mauling this country for years in the save knowledge,that come next election , voters
will vote them,for lack of choice,or anger at the current ruling party. it is obvious that this sort of knowledge does
results in blatant abuse. mr cameron displays this thinking on a bandaid level. how smug. let s bring on a
complete new set of parties and politics.
Re: quest for a political party
[info]kuma2000 wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 07:56 am (UTC)
Think outside the box. Political parties are a thing of the past. Why do we need to send a toff to London by stagecoach to represent us anymore? We can represent ourselves, put government online, let us run the country ourselves. Flush the Royal Family, the House of Lords and the House of Parliament down the toilet, they are relics of an out of date way of life. Why do we still have a Victorian solution to a modern issue?
Follow on Brown
[info]stickytruth2 wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 05:14 am (UTC)
Can we the public trust anyone in the House of Commons anymore, not only the cheating in their claims, which must be paid back with interest.
Just look at the state of our country since Tony Blair and Nu Labs came to power.
If there is going to be an inquiry we be an honest one, or we will end with a report like the Dr Kelly affair?
These people judge themselves, give themselves pay rises and holidays, no more it is the public
that should decide their future and life style.
Cameron Didn't know, my ass!
[info]saharapage wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 05:30 am (UTC)
Cameron pretending he didn't know what was going on is a complete lie! Over the years they were all at it; ALL AT IT! As a lowly clerk in the civil service I have had to endure a pay cut in real term over the last eleven years. Five of those years I didn't get a pay rise at all and the rest of the time I got much less than the rate of inflation; I bought my own tv but I don't have a pool or a moat to keep. All the ordinary civil servants I know are grateful to have the job.
Thatcher again
[info]humble_sparrow wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 05:41 am (UTC)
It's one of the legacies of Thatcher's generation that created a whole new ethic. The financial system bloated with greed, egos beyond measure and all those zillions.

That's the rich taken care of

Now it's the turn of the powerful

God bless the Daily Telegraph :-)
Re: Thatcher again
[info]kuma2000 wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 08:05 am (UTC)
The Tory Telegraph did not do it out of duty, they did it to sell papers. The newspapers are also greedy you see. You can bet someone at the Independent had their ass kicked for not getting that report first...
Re: Thatcher again
[info]humble_sparrow wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 08:27 am (UTC)
You missed the irony of what I said

The Telegraph which has always been the representative of the rich and powerful has turned on it's own kind.

They are all in the same cage fighting out their moral dilemmas and not very successfully at that.

I find it very amusing :-)
The SS blame the system whilst Cameron acts
[info]rickraider wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 05:43 am (UTC)
Well done David Cameron, you are a man of your word unlike the Stalinesque leader of the Socialist Scum (SS) party who trots out that it is the fault of the system. Now that the SS party's propaganda machine cannot hide the truth they revert to type - they take no responsibility and blame the system. One of their Stormtroopers Denis Mcshane has been sent out to command the British public not to vote for the BNP as a backlash to the expenses debacle. They, the SS, who have damaged this country in so many ways have the nerve to dictate who or who we should not vote for.
Who to vote for
[info]democraticact wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 05:45 am (UTC)
Be brave and vote TDA. The argument for which is at: democraticbritain.org.uk
CAMERON SHOWS BROWN THE WAY.
[info]bgarvie wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 06:01 am (UTC)
David Cameron has acted in a decisive manner in contrast to Brown's dithering. Contributions supporting Brown are obviously from socialist bigots. Being biased they pretend Brown is decisive whilst he has been totally reactive to events. Brown has certainly not shown leadership.
After 12 years of these champagne socialists the country is in an awful state. Their greed and sleaze has been amply demonstrated over months of leaks and derision. Brown has behaved in a dysfunctional manner, mismanaged the economy and buried his Party in the dustbin of history for the next 50 years. His economic policies have failed because he has run out of other peoples money and now expects our children and grand children to repay his Government debt.
Brown is a complete disaster and the sooner there is a General Election the better. The longer he remains in office, more people will lose their jobs. (Current loss rate of 60,000 per week).
Swift response?
[info]stewartpa wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 06:34 am (UTC)
You must be joking.

Cameron is supposed to be one of the big cheeses in the Westminster village so how come he didn't know what was going on? If he didn't know he should have done. By the way this comment applies to all of the MPs.

Finally, if miscreant have to be threatened with the sack before doing the right thing, what does that say about their values of what is right and fair?

Finally finally, to pay for the cost of the independent audit, will there be a staff reduction in the office that handled expenses?
Re: Swift response?
[info]rickraider wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 06:59 am (UTC)
How on earth can Cameron keep a check on hundreds of MP's expenses, if he is doing that then he is not doing his job. It is the governments job to monitor this not the opposition. Cameron has acted swiftly and introduced rules for Conservative party members with immediate effect. In this way no Conservative MP can say that they have not been warned. Many of the abuses also occurred before Cameron became the Tory leader so it is hardly fair to blame him about what MP's got up to.
Making the most of a bad situation
[info]kuma2000 wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 07:51 am (UTC)
Cameron is taking advantage of a bad situation - with the Labour MPs outed first by the Tory Telegraph he has been able to take advantage of their flippant responses before his own MPs expenses were revealed and they did exactly the same. By acting as a central spokesmen they do not have to respond like schoolboys caught wanking like their Labour counterparts. If Tony Blair was doing it then it would be called "spin". It doesn't change the fact that just because they have been told to pay it back means they don't have big white stains on their pants too.

If we look at the revelations of Tory abuses so far they seem to be a little worse than Labour largely because they are wealthy toffs with more to spend their money on, but otherwise not a great deal of differences. Being told to pay it back does not change the fact that it happened; where embezzlement has clearly taken place MPs should be prosecuted not told it is okay to say they are sorry and pay a little back.
Re: Making the most of a bad situation
[info]camillevidan wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 09:35 am (UTC)
Labour was given an advantage. Their expenses were published first, they could have taken the lead on the issue and they should have, they're in power after all. It's unbelievable how they turned this opportunity into another mess.
Re: Making the most of a bad situation
[info]kuma2000 wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 09:20 pm (UTC)
Hardly an advantage, but yet again they turn a bad situation into a total disaster.
MP's Expenses
[info]jeffcurtis1 wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 08:19 am (UTC)

This has to be the most overblown non-story ever.

While our underpaid MP's are being crucified in the media, the real fat cats are laughing all the way
from the banks.

Re: MP's Expenses
[info]humanist21 wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 08:33 am (UTC)
And you are MP for where.......or maybe steven fry
Re: MP's Expenses
[info]jj9876 wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 11:32 am (UTC)
That's because it's MP's that make the rules that we have to follow. They make one set of rules for the public while they follow a completely different set of rules. This is the only reason MP's are being lambasted and especially Gordon Brown and his cohorts. Stephen Fry doesn't get it neither. Its the massive hypocrisy and double standards Mr Fry - geddit now!
Smoke and mirrors
[info]humanist21 wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 08:30 am (UTC)
Given that just this week the "CON"servative are trying to push through a vote for a employee opt out to the minimal wage legislation...Given the massive rise in unemployment and the growing desperation of people trying to find jobs...I can just see employers saying to people we can only provide you with a job if you sign this opt out agreement....ie so we can exploit you and pay you peanuts......and given the timing when the press is having a feeding frenzy over the expenses revelations...Most likely hoping this would slip through unnoticed....Shows only too well the despicable character of these blood sucking leeches
Not a insult at all
[info]camillevidan wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 09:14 am (UTC)
He's certainly moved quickly and decisively on this one. He's very good at the press con, he looked he's angry and sounded he understands why the public are angry. The way he handles crisis is certainly very Blair-like. In terms of real modernization, he's less zealous and bold than Blair, but I think his caution has served him well so far. He's a clever politician no doubt, but I think he's also a decent guy, nothing embarrassing from expense claims.
MPs Expenses
[info]rumpole1 wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 11:09 am (UTC)
We cannot know what would have happened had "the damming details o MPs expenses come to light, but it a fair bet that the claims system would have continued unabated. The public's perception of their MPs is now,at least,one of disappointment and,at the most, anger at their loss on integrity, but that perception may be unfair of some and justified in others. If an MP'claim falls fairly and squarely within the terms laid down in The Green Book then it may be that the claim is honest and jusified so that many MPs' claims may be justified.

The problems throughout has been the secrecy atttached to MPs' expenses, The Speaker's irresponsible action and the work of the parliamentary staff dealing with these claims. The impression is that all claims are allowed through on a nod and a wink without reference to the rules at all. Do we know of any claims that have been refused?

Honestly from all MPs is now required and they must justify their actions and their positions with their constituents. If they can reasonably justify their expenses claims they shoud not repay them or offfer to repay the, but when claims cannot be justified then repayment should be made and sacking and de-selection should follows.Justice must be done and be see to be done.
what about interest and penalties - just like for us
[info]jj9876 wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 11:26 am (UTC)
If we the public had not paid some tax on time, we would be subject to high Inland Revenue interest rates plus penalties which can be 100% of the sum owed. Also, they would go back six years (not four as suggested by Brown). If there was fraud, as in the case of MP expenses, then the Inland Revenue would go back 20 years. How come its one law for the public and another for the MP's. Especially when it is the MP's that have voted for the laws on the public. This cannot be right.

Also apart from outright fraud, there is also the additional charge of massive hypocrisy and double standards, what penalty for that?
Intresting times
[info]ashstuff wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 12:15 pm (UTC)
Just an observation which I will probably get slammed for but for the first time in a while our parliamentary system seams to be working (as a posed to the presidential style Blair years),

1,David Cameron is leading the game as fare as sorting out expenses is concerned,

2,The LibDem opposition motion on the Gurkha's passed

3,The house looks like it might remove the speaker

4,Brown dropping earlier expense reforms due to lack of house support

I know this is mainly a side affect Mr Browns lack of authority but its nice to seem parliament working as it indented(ie consensus) rather than simply passing no. 10's wishes.

Here's hoping for a hung parliament and stronger FOI laws so we can keep an eye on them,
List of MPs Expenses
[info]eve_ntual92 wrote:
Wednesday, 13 May 2009 at 04:17 pm (UTC)
A list of MPs expenses appears to be here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=phNtm3LmDZEObQ2itmSqHIA

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