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Leading article: We won't get fooled again

Tony Blair has many fine qualities. He can be a brilliant advocate; and he has a gift – although he found its limit – for finding agreement among apparently incompatible interests. His supporters also put forward other qualifications for the post of President of the European Council: he has experience of working with European institutions; as Prime Minister he sought to engage Britain more constructively in the European Union – again within limits; and, whatever the critics might say, he is well known and respected among world leaders.

However, The Independent on Sunday cannot support his undeclared candidacy for the job that is now almost certain to be created. This is not simply a matter of his decision to join the American invasion of Iraq. That was an error of judgement, and an important one. It must count against him in consideration for any leadership position. But the Iraq war also undermines Mr Blair's claim to be a unifying force. The issue itself was divisive, pitting the governments of the European Union against each other. When the choice between Britain's relationship with America and its relationship with the rest of Europe became unfudgeable, Mr Blair chose America, which speaks volumes about his instincts.

Mr Blair rode roughshod over popular opinion across Europe, and misled people at home. He used information selectively to help persuade Cabinet and Parliament of the case for military action. As we say, he was a forceful advocate, sometimes stretching the facts to the utmost in order to make his case. His lawyerly persuasiveness may be useful in presenting Europe's case to the rest of the world, but it is not necessarily the ability that makes for the best chairman of summits of European leaders.

As we report today, this is the view of none other than Sir Stephen Wall. Sir Stephen was Britain's ambassador to the EU for Mr Blair's first three years as Prime Minister. He was then Mr Blair's adviser on Europe until 2004. In that time, he helped to draft the European Constitution that later became the Lisbon Treaty, which created the post of European president. He claims that it was a British idea, but that Mr Blair might one day fill the post "was not in our thoughts at the time". The job was seen then as one with "very constrained" powers, he says, of "co-ordinating the business of the European Council" – the meetings of the leaders of the member states that take place four times a year.

Sir Stephen says that having a high-profile figure as president "is not necessarily a good idea", which, from someone in his position, is damning indeed. Above all, however, the argument against Mr Blair's appointment is that it would be undemocratic.

This newspaper supports the Lisbon Treaty, but sees a terrible missed opportunity in the way it began – as an attempt to impose a constitution on the EU from above. The EU can only be strengthened if its peoples are given their voice. A referendum on the Treaty would have been essential had it proposed significant changes in the EU – as it was, the demand for a referendum was only a cause behind which Europhobes could rally. But Mr Blair is not the choice of the peoples of Europe, and it would weaken the EU if his appointment were to emerge from the secret horse-trading that is now going on behind the scenes.

Mr Blair is not even the choice of the people of Britain. Anyone who thinks it would be good to have a Briton in the job to fight for a "British" pragmatism in Europe should think again: he would provide a focus for Conservative anti-Europe feeling.

Nor should European leaders choose someone simply on the basis that the Americans have heard of him. They should choose someone who would be interested in making the European Union work better in the interests of its peoples, which means that it should work more democratically.

There is, therefore, a strong case that the first President of the European Council should come from one of the smaller member states. "As a unifying signal it should be thought about," says Sir Stephen Wall. More than that, it should be acted on, and Mr Blair should be stopped.

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Comments

We could get fooled again
[info]keltikos wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 12:29 am (UTC)
"Tony Blair has many fine qualities. He can be a brilliant advocate; and he has a gift – although he found its limit – for finding agreement among apparently incompatible interests."
Being a fine advocate is not necessarily a fine quality. It is what one advocates that defines the man.
Mr. Blair was an advocate of war and will be remembered for that above all else.
There is no doubt about his advocacy skills. To the amazement of Catholics worldwide he succeeded in advancing his own case to convert to Catholicism while still publicly unrepentant for the deaths of untold numbers of innocent human beings. Quite an exercise in self advocacy by any standards.
His role in the peace process in Northern Ireland has always been something of an exaggeration as armed hostilities had long ceased. His lack of moral authority was evident during the invasion of Gaza which occurred on his watch as Special Envoy to the Middle East.
No, I think the world will be a safer place if we can confine him to lecture tours of American universities until nobody is interested any more in what he has to say.
Re: We could get fooled again
[info]hotdangdiggidy wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 11:55 am (UTC)
I'm no fan of Tony Blair but to say his role in the NI peace process is exaggerated is a complete fabrication. He pushed for a framework for peace with a deadline of 12 months from the date he got elected. He acknowledged peace could not be attained by excluding any party. He demanded the unionists play ball & convinced the biggest thorn in Britains side for the last 50 years namely the IRA to stand down. I was brought up in Ireland before & after the agreement & to say it was anything other than miraculous is an understatement. No other British politician has ever given it the amount of time & care Mr Blair has. Although he made some grevious errors of judgement later in his premiership, his role in the NI peace process was anything but exaggerated.
Re: We could get fooled again
[info]sebmel wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 01:18 pm (UTC)
Short memories are what fools are made of.

JOHN MAJOR - remember him? He laid the foundations for peace in NI, not Tony Blair. Blair stepped in as the process neared completion and received the plaudits. After years of Thatcher antagonising Republicans it was Major who lifted the mood of oppression and created the first real hope the Irish had sensed that the problem could finally be solved.

John Major opened talks with the IRA
John Major issued the 'Downing Street Declaration' on 15 December 1993
Cease fire followed in 1994
John Major paved the way for the Belfast Agreement (the Good Friday Agreement)
His leaving office in mid 1997 was what allowed Tony Blair to step in and sign it, less than a year later, on the 10th of April 1998.

Thank you, John Major... Thank you.

John Major:
"The hatred and feuds of Northern Ireland forced their way into forefront of my mind. It seemed to me our nation had become so weary of this ever-present scar that people were now willing to accept that nothing could be done. I was not. I believed in the politics of reason, and was intent on working for a settlement that would end the violence, and - unless the people of the Province chose to leave it - keep Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom".
Re: We could get fooled again
[info]hotdangdiggidy wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 05:23 pm (UTC)
Thats an interesting anecdote you've presented but sadly incorrect. John Major placed obstacle after obstacle in front of peace. He refused to speak to Sinn Fein. He constantly molly coddled the unionists because he had only a slim majority in the house of commons & required their support to stay in government. All party talks only began in July 1998 when the IRA believed that Tony Blair was honestly interested in progressing the process & not just there to be seen to be doing something. Just because you quote John Major stating he was responsible for the peace process doesnt make it true. John Major not only wanted a ceasefire before talks with Sinn Fein but also full decommissioning which would not have happened. Just so you know Northern Ireland isnt a province, Ulster is, where the majority of people do want to leave the United Kingdom.
Re: We could get fooled again
[info]hotdangdiggidy wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 05:28 pm (UTC)
Correction that was July '97 when the IRA called their second ceasefire
Re: We could get fooled again
[info]sebmel wrote:
Tuesday, 20 October 2009 at 11:48 am (UTC)
I'm sorry but it is you who are wrong.

John Major opened talks with Sinn Fein and the IRA immediately on taking office. He just wasn't prepared to do it openly. You need to remember that the IRA had not too long ago blown up the Tory Conference in Brighton, paralysing Mrs Tebbit in a fall through several floors of the hotel.

The talks came out in an article in the Guardian as early as Sunday 28 November 1993. In that same month Sinn Fein outlined to the press the talks that had been going on since February 1993. They did so in response to John Major claiming that "to sit down and talk with Mr. Adams and the Provisional IRA... would turn my stomach".

It is simply beyond credulity of any reasonable person to suggest that after 100 years of the Irish problems Tony Blair had it all solved within a year. That's fantasy. The work started much earlier and was close to completion when Blair took office. Blair was simply the last relay in a long race. He deserves credit simply for not screwing up what was already laid out.

It is very sad that the only significant success of Blair's time in office is the completion of John Major's work. His investment in schools and hospitals is a bureaucratic mess.

Margaret Thatcher ran down the state... leaving the cost to a future generation. Blair invested through PFI, leaving the cost to a future generation. Gordon Brown promoted property inflation transferring wealth to baby boomers from the following generation in the form of payments funded by massive mortgages. The baby boomers have ripped off the young by not paying their dues.
Error of Judgement?
[info]ancientoneuk wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 12:33 am (UTC)
Error of Judgement????

Ye gods but that is the tamest of ways to say he lied and manipulated us into an illegal war.

Because of those lies countless Iraqi's are dead, maimed, dispossessed or forced into exile.

Because of those lies our soldiers and other service people have died not defending the realm but fighting Bush and Blair's political agenda.

Because of those lies, Blair had to literally empty the cupboard, slashing into every budget he could find to pay for his war crimes.

Blair far surpassed even Ramsay MacDonald's government for corruption and sleaze.

As George Bush is the worst thing to happen to America, Tony Blair has turned out to be the worst Prime Minister for this country, I still hope for the day when he stands arraigned in the Hague and the fervent hope too that one day in the future, the Iraqi's will seek to try him as well.
(no subject) - [info]alex_fraser1 - Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 12:46 am (UTC)
Re: Sold his soul
[info]dakast wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 04:09 am (UTC)
The anti-Blair drive isn't helped by people like Alex - semi-illiterate, jabbering conspiratorial nut jobs.
Re: Sold his soul
[info]amanfrommars wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 04:47 am (UTC)
Hardly semi-illiterate, dakast, whenever so succinct and erudite.
Re: Sold his soul
[info]alex_fraser1 wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 10:47 am (UTC)
Says the oh so rational Dakast who believes in a boogeyman hiding in a cave...Tell me Dakast oh enlightened one, do you also leave a mince pie out for Santa on Xmas eve?
Watch this........
http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?hl=en&source=hp&q=zero%20an%20investigation%20into%209%2011&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#

and check out this site....
http://www.julyseventh.co.uk/july-7-mind-the-gaps-part-1.html
Then we'll see who the "nut job" is.
And yes, Thank God for the Internet as finally there is a forum for the TRUTH..not the censored version of reality spewed out by the TV and print media...

The 9/11 truth movement isn't helped by people like Dakast who choose to insult and abuse anyone who dares offer a different opinion to the one spouted out in the mainstream media and by corrupt politicians.....
Everything I have told you about is real my friend....But you keep believeing in the boogeyman and it will all be alright, and let scumbags like Bliar swagger around picking up millions of pounds and never be held to account for everything...
How's that for a "semi-illiterate, jabbering conspiratorial nut job?"
Re: Sold his soul
[info]alex_fraser1 wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 10:53 am (UTC)
Watch this my friend-I forgive your insults-I too said the same to people 2 years ago when they told me this information until I actually did research....
People believed the earth was flat once too....
As Einstein said....COndemnation without investigation is the height of all ignorance.....
If you can explain to me how Tower 7 collapsed in 6 seconds and wasn't hit by anything then I would love to hear it, restore my faith in humanity....
Please also debunk this........
A millionaire movie producer with nothing to gain at all by doing such an interview...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA
Re: Sold his soul
[info]ganef wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 12:55 pm (UTC)
Alex,

Go and have a lie down in a darkened room. You are losing it.
Re: Sold his soul
[info]xyz07 wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 07:27 pm (UTC)
He is losing it? Alternative media is the only way to get information these days (other than celebrity gossip and sports results). How many of you have you read about the 72 kg of seasonal flu vaccine contaminated with LIVE avian flu virus Baxter labs sent to Austria in february, to be distributed to the Check Republic and other countries? Only chance prevented a major disaster. Yet no British media covered it, as far as I know:

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html

Ah! Of course, Baxter said "sorry, human error"...
We won't get fooled again
[info]walterwall wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 05:18 am (UTC)
But will "we" have any say in the matter, or will it be left to the British government to decide what "we" think? The machinations about the Lisbon Treaty show just how undemocratic this whole sordid affair has been.
He's not a good European
[info]49niner wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 06:16 am (UTC)
For a supposedly pro-EU prime minister Blair was a disaster. Even before he lead us into the Iraq war, his record is more style than substance.

Blair had the opportunity to lead us out of the negative Europhobia that characterised the Major years, and we could have made a positive contribution to the development of the EU. But he bottled it. He didn't have the courage to have a real debate on the Euro and that issue is still unresolved.

As a nation we haven't come to terms with two inter-related realities. Firstly, we are no longer a world power and the "special relationship" with the US is increasingly a one-way street. And secondly, the EU is becoming stronger and covers most of the nations of Europe. Like it or not, we need to be a member because to pretend otherwise locks us out of important decisions vital to our interests.

As a good European, Blair bottled it when he had the power. To give him a second chance would be a grave mistake.
What does it say about the others.
[info]pete_s wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 08:03 am (UTC)

IF, he gets the job, that means he was elected by a majority of the 27 countries. In this country he has at best the reputation of being like 'a very slippery second hand car salesman' and then can go rapidly down hill. Liar, conman, self serving, etc,etc. So what would it say about the qualities of the people who would want him as President. Well my thoughts are they must share his qualities, so who would want to belong to a EU run by people like that?
Not dead yet
[info]alan_johns wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 08:10 am (UTC)
Excellent leader. But, if we want to stop Blair, we should realize he can still win in corridor negotiations. If Tony sees that opposition is such that declaring himself for the presidency will lead to embarrassment for him, he will steer away from the option.

Citizens' voices matter. Sign the Stop Blair! petition at http://stopblair.eu
Re: Not dead yet
[info]lizzie38 wrote:
Thursday, 29 October 2009 at 05:35 pm (UTC)
I would choose Mary Robinson, former president of Ireland, for intelligence, experience, and integrity.
Please suggest alternative candidates
[info]publunch99 wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 08:22 am (UTC)
Good article, nicely understated, with hints of faint praise and irony.

We could do worse than Blair. We could end up with Berlusconi.

The article suggests someone from one of the smaller nations, without mentioning any names.

Anyone like to suggest anyone?

Re: Please suggest alternative candidates
[info]tominlondon wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 10:11 am (UTC)
bLIAR is worse than Berlusconi. Berlusconi didn't actually start any wars, and whilst he is a danger to Italy, he isn't an international threat like bLIAR.
Anyone but Blair?
[info]paulstpancras wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 09:42 am (UTC)
Good, thoughtful and balanced editorial.

The European Council could, if it so wished, expand the franchise to select the President of the European Council.

The Lisbon Treaty expands the role of national parliaments in the architecture of Europe. The Council could submit a list of names for President to all national parliaments. There are approximately 7500 national MPs throughout the Union. They represent the broad swathe of political and public opinion of Europeans. Their votes could be tallied and apportioned according to the voting criteria of the Council. The votes of all MEPs could be added to the tally.

Thereby some 8000 elected Representatives of the European people would have a say.

Not as democratic as universal sufferage but a temporary solution to only 27 First Ministers' votes.
Blair for President
[info]liddlevoice wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 10:20 am (UTC)
As usual a well balanced and cogent Leader. However, I do not agree with the conclusion. It may seem unprincipled, but in politics probably more than in any other field, the 'least worst' solution is the best we can hope for. Yes Blair has made his mistakes and the major one was huge. Nevertheless, he would provide a high profile figurhead (which Europe needs); credibility with non-European nations, especially the USA (which Europe also needs) and experience of 'big politics'. A low profile figure from one of the amller states may appear a temptingly 'inclusive' proposition but may not ultimately give the role the profile that would best for Europe as a whole.
NO NO
[info]gowithwi wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 10:33 am (UTC)
You got it all wrong .Mr Blair is not brilliant.
Just sly and antisocial. Apart from the U.K ,Northern and Central
Europe happen to be extremely socialist. Costs of living are on
par with Wages and Pensions. It goes without saying, that the
President of the EU ought to be of a Country ,that represents
these values. Preferable a Country everyone respects.
The choice should definitely be a scandinavian Country.
Mr Blair is not only known for his dog like devotion to
Mr Bush, but also as the Architect of the destruction of
Civil Liberties . The man passed so many Laws, without thinking,
that most of them are still emerging as absolutely useless,
devoid of any logic and care. There is also the risk of
some Civil Action against the man in his position as Peace
Envoy to the Middle East ,if found to be an aggressor in the Iraq War.
No,No,No . This will not do.
Re: NO NO
[info]alex_fraser1 wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 10:59 am (UTC)
He is more than "sly and antisocial"
Bliar is a dangerous individual who needs to be held to account for the million and a half dead iraqis on lies, the death of Dr Kelly, and the inside job of 7/7...and complicity in the cover up of the truth of 9/11.
A truly nast nasty piece of work.
Dont believe me?
Please watch...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nD7dbkkBIA

http://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?hl=en&source=hp&q=zero%20an%20investigation%20into%209%2011&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#

http://www.julyseventh.co.uk/july-7-mind-the-gaps-part-1.html
You forget the most important reason
[info]jorgeg1 wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 11:23 am (UTC)
Quote from your article "'President' Blair loses Sarkozy's support" :

"Governments in Benelux and Austria oppose Mr Blair for other reasons. (...) They object, in principle, to any British figure taking the post while the UK remains outside the euro and the common, passport-free borders established on the continent by the Schengen agreement. "

This is what matters. First, no Briton should be appointed for the job for the reasons above. Second, if push came to shove, Blair should be the last choice.

Note to the Indy's editors:

Your sentence "the common, passport-free borders established ... by the Schengen agreement " makes the Schengen agreement sound like something that applies to continental Europe and has been 'invented' there by a bunch of eccentric foreigners. NO, IT IS NOT THAT. It is something that is a key pillar of the EU = freedom of movement of persons in the same way that there is freedom of movement for goods. It is just a way to make persons to have THE SAME VALUE as goods inside the EU. Any chance of any British media or politician understanding this simple fact? Of course for the British, freedom of movement in the so-called single market applies to goods and EU nationals only but other human beings (e.g. legal residents of other passports, who tend to be non-white) are excluded. Unwitting racism again? I thought MacPerson had already given British politicians a bollocking about this...
Stop Blair - Practical Steps
[info]snickid wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 12:21 pm (UTC)

To help stop Tony Blair becoming EU president:

1. Sign the following petition: http://www.stopblair.eu/

2. Contact your MP and MEPs to enlist their support against him, via: http://www.writetothem.com/
Will Prescott be his Vice Pressy
[info]snotcricket wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 01:51 pm (UTC)
Given we're not trusted with a vote on the Lisbon Treaty any opinion afterward is pointless.
Blair
[info]marclow wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 03:06 pm (UTC)
'A brilliant advocate.' Blair ? Never. The devil's advocate ? Certainly. A man who can successfully argue that black is white is not brilliant but evil . The Tories should never be forgiven for believing him on Iraq. That he could wind them round his little finger is the strongest evidence that the damage he will do as President is illimitable.
Blair in Europe
[info]marcind wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 07:03 pm (UTC)
The proposition that Tony Blair be President of the Council of Europe is wholly unacceptable. The only instutution that he should have any association with is that he be before the International court of justice in the hague for his Iraq venture. The EU needs help not hindrance.
Gold Fraud UK
[info]pcolloids wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 08:24 pm (UTC)
A surge in the gold price cometh, perhaps imminently. In the next several weeks, the gold price might jump quickly to the $1500 level. A contact with excellent access to gold transaction information and developments has shared that the sharp price rise could come very soon "due to certain transactions that are being consummated at this very moment. Even if the Boyz try to hold own or depress the price, it will do them no good. The pressure that has been built up is uncontrollable. We shall see some big banks hit the wall very soon (weeks/months). The market will take over in very short order from here on forward." A phase has begun to remove illicit corrupt controls on the gold & silver market, from demand of physical bullion. The same source told a story about events at the London Bullion Market Assn. That market is to London what the COMEX is to the United States, both deep in corruption and government interference, where grossly inadequate metal inventory exists to maintain their charades of markets, each dominated by paper pricing. They manage paper markets for syndicates in total illegal operations. Several large gold futures contract holders are demanding physical delivery in London. The LBMA does not have the metal in inventory. The officials have offered the futures contract holders cash plus 25% dividend for settlement without gold delivery. The contract holders refused. They want their fuchn gold (using a French term by the source, my unique palatable spelling)!!! There was very high volume involved in the contracts. The standoff is not settled. It could go to court. The London authorities are trying desperately to keep the story from hitting the press. It helps to have the syndicate in control of the press networks. The Bank of England and one other European member central bank are working feverishly to fill the contract order, but unfortunately they are using very old gold bars that are reportedly only 90% gold. That invites a new potential challenge. The gold market could soon explode and possibly work toward a convergent fair market. My hint is that it is Germans and Swiss with other Europeans are working diligently and pointedly to kill off the US-UK bank nazis. A LBMA and COMEX bust and default is visible on the horizon. See the Jackass article entitled "Hitman Contracts to Bust Comex" (CLICK HERE) dated in May 27. It would include big bank ruin and legal prosecution. The same source hinted that the ruin of commodity exchanges could coincide with the bust of JPMorgan. So, based upon the London incident, gold has a real price of near $1300.

Warmaker, peacemaker, bottom licker, nun
[info]harry_2009 wrote:
Sunday, 18 October 2009 at 10:46 pm (UTC)
Tony Anthony Blair will do whatever it take to please his followers and avoid a war crimes tribunal. Yesterday he was warmonger killing millions of innocent Iraq civilians yet today he is EU peace envoy. Tomorrow he may be licking many bottoms of other high ranking politicians in order to protect against illegal war cimes. Tony is whatever you want to call him.

Cherie is his wife and is a QC so was involved in many human rights laws. If you burgle her home and get caught say thank you to the laws she introduced.

Cherie Blair is a bit of an ugly looking old cow so I've been told, I think she's a bit overweight.

It's a shame their new home address has been posted on the internet because many people I know are up for trashing the place. 5 November is a date I keep seeing - though am aware that SS read my posts so I might be wrong ')

Blair for President!
[info]kevonz wrote:
Monday, 19 October 2009 at 02:52 am (UTC)
You cannot be serious! Surely you jest?
A Proven liar whose subterfuge in pretending that Iraq had 'weapons of mass distruction'has brought untold suffering to the people of Iraq.
Next they will be giving the Nobel peace prize to the President conducting the most number of wars on the planet.
Then I will truly know that the lunatics are running the assylum
We won't get fooled again
[info]juliandbsmith wrote:
Monday, 19 October 2009 at 09:46 am (UTC)

OH YES WE WILL!! we are about to elect BLAIR II, David Cameron. I support Blair I's elction because it will reall really annoy Blair II and we will need some light relief in the gloom of the coming Tory years.
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Monday, 19 October 2009 at 02:41 pm (UTC)
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You've *already* been fooled again
[info]reinertorheit wrote:
Monday, 19 October 2009 at 06:06 pm (UTC)

You all cheered and salivated like Pavlovian dogs when Obama was elected.

And then it turned-out that he was a pseudo-democratic warmongering thug who supports torture, the Afghan War (with increased expenditure), and American destabilisation of sovereign countries.

Just like Tony Blair.
[info]justicewhite wrote:
Saturday, 14 November 2009 at 02:45 pm (UTC)
Apparently, Mr Bliar charges £180 anyone who would want to get a picture taken with him. How low can he get.




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Columnist Comments

andrew_grice

Andrew Grice: Enough of the philosophy, Mr Cameron.

Think-tanks play an important role in politics. But they have their limits.

christina_patterson

Christina Patterson: Very nice - but forgiveness is overrated

Sometimes, as Lydon sang, in his post Sex Pistols band, ‘anger is an energy.

mary_dejevsky

Mary Dejevsky: Why not call Blair now and wrap it up?

The enquiry already seems like a sideline as the queues dwindle.


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